PTIJ: Why does only a Shor Tam ask at the Seder, and not a Shor Mu'ad? [closed]
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We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.
As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).
Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?
This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.
purim-torah-in-jest
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
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closed as off-topic by msh210♦ Mar 23 at 22:22
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Purim Torah questions are on-topic only once a year, and will be closed after Purim. For details, see: Purim Torah policy" – msh210
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We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.
As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).
Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?
This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.
purim-torah-in-jest
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
17k12689
closed as off-topic by msh210♦ Mar 23 at 22:22
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Purim Torah questions are on-topic only once a year, and will be closed after Purim. For details, see: Purim Torah policy" – msh210
add a comment |
We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.
As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).
Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?
This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.
purim-torah-in-jest
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
17k12689
We all know the four sons: the wise son, the wicked son, the Tam, and the son who doesn't know how to ask.
As we all know as well, there's two types of cows: those which have gored less than three times (a Shor Tam) and those which have gored more than three times (a Shor Mu'ad - see Shemos 21:28ff with Bava Kamma 23b).
Why does only a Shor Tam get to ask at the Seder? Why not a Shor Mu'ad?
This question is Purim Torah and is not intended to be taken completely seriously. See the Purim Torah policy.
purim-torah-in-jest
purim-torah-in-jest
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
17k12689
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
17k12689
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
17k12689
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
17k12689
asked Mar 10 at 18:09
DonielFDonielF
17k12689
17k12689
closed as off-topic by msh210♦ Mar 23 at 22:22
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Purim Torah questions are on-topic only once a year, and will be closed after Purim. For details, see: Purim Torah policy" – msh210
closed as off-topic by msh210♦ Mar 23 at 22:22
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Purim Torah questions are on-topic only once a year, and will be closed after Purim. For details, see: Purim Torah policy" – msh210
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
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You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.
It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.
The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.
There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.
If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
add a comment |
The mishna on Bava Kamma 37a talks about a case where an ox would be considered a "mu'ad" only for Shabbos, but not for weekdays.
Huh?! How could this be?
Rashi s.v. ("הרי הוא מועד לשבתות"):
לפי שהוא בטל ממלאכה וזחה דעתו עליו
since [the ox] wasn't working, it was distracted
Tosfos s.v. "הרי הוא מועד לשבתות":
מפרש בירושלמי לפי שראה אותם במלבושים נאים אחרים וחשובים בעיניו נכרים ואינו מכירם
It's explained in the Yerushalmi, since the ox saw them wearing nice clothes and thought they were other people and didn't recognize them
SO
On Pesach night while it's ok for a Shor Tam to be at your seder, a Shor Muad won't be there either due to your nice Yom Tov clothes (Tosfos) or because since it's Pesach night you and the ox won't be working (Rashi).
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
1
So, what would a Shor Mu’ad ask, if he was allowed to show up to do so?
– DonielF
Mar 14 at 21:54
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.
It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.
The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.
There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.
If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
add a comment |
You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.
It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.
The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.
There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.
If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
add a comment |
You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.
It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.
The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.
There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.
If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
You're reading it wrong. It's shor moed, not shur muad. A shor moed already knows everything about Yom Tov, so he has no need to ask questions.
It's true that part of the mitzvah of ספור יציאת מצרים is via asking questions, but since the shor moed attends other people's sedarim, he's yotzei through their questions. The only way to find out what questions he would ask is to eavesdrop on a seder where everyone present is a shor moed. This is unlikely to happen because, as the Ibn Ezra writes, there's only one shor who ever had friends. It's not clear whether he was a shor moed or not, but he's unfortunately no longer with us, since he was alive at or before the time of the Ibn Ezra, and the longest lived cow on record only lived 48 years.
The only option remaining is to listen in on a shor moed who's doing the seder all by himself. At that point you'd have to invite him to your own, because nobody should have to celebrate Yom Tov all by himself.
There is one possibility: if you're an Israeli and you find a shor moed from Chutz Laaretz, you could go to his second seder on your first night of Chol Hamoed. Since you're not obligated to do the seder that night, your questions are not sufficient to fulfill his obligation to ask questions, so he'd have to ask himself. Just make sure to bring your own food, since he won't be able to cook for you.
If anyone manages this, please comment and let us know what questions he asks.
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
edited Mar 10 at 18:44
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
answered Mar 10 at 18:26
HeshyHeshy
3,787728
3,787728
add a comment |
add a comment |
The mishna on Bava Kamma 37a talks about a case where an ox would be considered a "mu'ad" only for Shabbos, but not for weekdays.
Huh?! How could this be?
Rashi s.v. ("הרי הוא מועד לשבתות"):
לפי שהוא בטל ממלאכה וזחה דעתו עליו
since [the ox] wasn't working, it was distracted
Tosfos s.v. "הרי הוא מועד לשבתות":
מפרש בירושלמי לפי שראה אותם במלבושים נאים אחרים וחשובים בעיניו נכרים ואינו מכירם
It's explained in the Yerushalmi, since the ox saw them wearing nice clothes and thought they were other people and didn't recognize them
SO
On Pesach night while it's ok for a Shor Tam to be at your seder, a Shor Muad won't be there either due to your nice Yom Tov clothes (Tosfos) or because since it's Pesach night you and the ox won't be working (Rashi).
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
1
So, what would a Shor Mu’ad ask, if he was allowed to show up to do so?
– DonielF
Mar 14 at 21:54
add a comment |
The mishna on Bava Kamma 37a talks about a case where an ox would be considered a "mu'ad" only for Shabbos, but not for weekdays.
Huh?! How could this be?
Rashi s.v. ("הרי הוא מועד לשבתות"):
לפי שהוא בטל ממלאכה וזחה דעתו עליו
since [the ox] wasn't working, it was distracted
Tosfos s.v. "הרי הוא מועד לשבתות":
מפרש בירושלמי לפי שראה אותם במלבושים נאים אחרים וחשובים בעיניו נכרים ואינו מכירם
It's explained in the Yerushalmi, since the ox saw them wearing nice clothes and thought they were other people and didn't recognize them
SO
On Pesach night while it's ok for a Shor Tam to be at your seder, a Shor Muad won't be there either due to your nice Yom Tov clothes (Tosfos) or because since it's Pesach night you and the ox won't be working (Rashi).
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
1
So, what would a Shor Mu’ad ask, if he was allowed to show up to do so?
– DonielF
Mar 14 at 21:54
add a comment |
The mishna on Bava Kamma 37a talks about a case where an ox would be considered a "mu'ad" only for Shabbos, but not for weekdays.
Huh?! How could this be?
Rashi s.v. ("הרי הוא מועד לשבתות"):
לפי שהוא בטל ממלאכה וזחה דעתו עליו
since [the ox] wasn't working, it was distracted
Tosfos s.v. "הרי הוא מועד לשבתות":
מפרש בירושלמי לפי שראה אותם במלבושים נאים אחרים וחשובים בעיניו נכרים ואינו מכירם
It's explained in the Yerushalmi, since the ox saw them wearing nice clothes and thought they were other people and didn't recognize them
SO
On Pesach night while it's ok for a Shor Tam to be at your seder, a Shor Muad won't be there either due to your nice Yom Tov clothes (Tosfos) or because since it's Pesach night you and the ox won't be working (Rashi).
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
The mishna on Bava Kamma 37a talks about a case where an ox would be considered a "mu'ad" only for Shabbos, but not for weekdays.
Huh?! How could this be?
Rashi s.v. ("הרי הוא מועד לשבתות"):
לפי שהוא בטל ממלאכה וזחה דעתו עליו
since [the ox] wasn't working, it was distracted
Tosfos s.v. "הרי הוא מועד לשבתות":
מפרש בירושלמי לפי שראה אותם במלבושים נאים אחרים וחשובים בעיניו נכרים ואינו מכירם
It's explained in the Yerushalmi, since the ox saw them wearing nice clothes and thought they were other people and didn't recognize them
SO
On Pesach night while it's ok for a Shor Tam to be at your seder, a Shor Muad won't be there either due to your nice Yom Tov clothes (Tosfos) or because since it's Pesach night you and the ox won't be working (Rashi).
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
edited Mar 14 at 20:44
Alex
23.4k157133
23.4k157133
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
answered Mar 14 at 20:14
alichtalicht
2,6871634
2,6871634
1
So, what would a Shor Mu’ad ask, if he was allowed to show up to do so?
– DonielF
Mar 14 at 21:54
add a comment |
1
So, what would a Shor Mu’ad ask, if he was allowed to show up to do so?
– DonielF
Mar 14 at 21:54
1
1
So, what would a Shor Mu’ad ask, if he was allowed to show up to do so?
– DonielF
Mar 14 at 21:54
So, what would a Shor Mu’ad ask, if he was allowed to show up to do so?
– DonielF
Mar 14 at 21:54
add a comment |
