Is the correct pronunciation of “Have you seen Mary's book” “Mary book”?

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So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.



A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.



It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".



This is the quote from a text:




Some speakers of American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of the many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct _spelling- of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe




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up vote
6
down vote

favorite
2












So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.



A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.



It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".



This is the quote from a text:




Some speakers of American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of the many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct _spelling- of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe




Thanks.










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  • Please use the comment thread for friendly clarifying questions, suggestions for improving the question, relevant but transient information, or explanations of your actions. Comments should not contain answers.
    – MetaEd♦
    Oct 1 at 19:09












up vote
6
down vote

favorite
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up vote
6
down vote

favorite
2






2





So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.



A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.



It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".



This is the quote from a text:




Some speakers of American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of the many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct _spelling- of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe




Thanks.










share|improve this question















So there is this question about the pronunciation of the noun possessive inflection.



A certain text states that a zero allomorph is used by certain American English speakers for the noun possessive morpheme.



It says that that the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and the first consonant of the book create a situation in which possessive morpheme "may not be pronounced".



This is the quote from a text:




Some speakers of American English have a zero allomorph of the possessive morpheme. They may indicate possession either by using the -s2 versions we have noted or simply by juxtaposing the two nouns involved, as in Have you seen Mary book? As in the case of the zero allomorph of the present- and past-tense morphemes (in which John watches TV and John watched TV may be pronounced the same as John watch TV), the zero allomorph of the possessive tends to occur where two or more consonants come together. In Mary’s book, the [z] sound of the possessive suffix and initial consonant of book create the environment in which the possessive morpheme may not be pronounced. Such a pronunciation pattern is one of the many minor ways in which one dialect of English may differ from another without affecting meaning. Teachers of children who routinely use the zero allomorph of the possessive (Mary book) in speech may have to help them to become conscious of the correct _spelling- of the possessive, for they are likely, at least initially, to write possessive nouns as they pronounce them.
Analyzing English Grammar by Thomas P. Klammer, Muriel R. Schulz, Angela Della Volpe




Thanks.







grammar pronunciation inflectional-morphology prescriptive-grammar morpheme






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  • Please use the comment thread for friendly clarifying questions, suggestions for improving the question, relevant but transient information, or explanations of your actions. Comments should not contain answers.
    – MetaEd♦
    Oct 1 at 19:09
















  • Please use the comment thread for friendly clarifying questions, suggestions for improving the question, relevant but transient information, or explanations of your actions. Comments should not contain answers.
    – MetaEd♦
    Oct 1 at 19:09















Please use the comment thread for friendly clarifying questions, suggestions for improving the question, relevant but transient information, or explanations of your actions. Comments should not contain answers.
– MetaEd♦
Oct 1 at 19:09




Please use the comment thread for friendly clarifying questions, suggestions for improving the question, relevant but transient information, or explanations of your actions. Comments should not contain answers.
– MetaEd♦
Oct 1 at 19:09










4 Answers
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up vote
24
down vote



accepted










One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.



An excerpt:




Possession in AAVE is also different. It can be shown by proximity where the
owner’s name comes before the object owned. For instance, “She over Mary house”
(Dandy, 1991, p.49). In this sentence you know that the house belongs to Mary
because her name precedes the object owned. However, in SE, the only way to
show possession is to add 's after the owner’s name.




In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).






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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – MetaEd♦
    Oct 2 at 19:56

















up vote
17
down vote













The omission of the possessive suffix is very common in many Caribbean dialects. Here's a short excerpt from an article on Trinidadian folk speech that happens to include your "Mary book" example:




With regard to expressing the possessive concept, inflectional
suffixation is completely lost in the folk speech. Standard English
marks possession in nouns by inflection and word order. To the noun is
added the inflectional morpheme s, and the inflected noun is placed
before another noun and its modifier or in the final position after a
copula: Carl's pencil; the pencil is Carl's. Trinidadian folk speech
dispenses with suffixation altogether when showing possession but
follows the adjective word order: Carl pencil, Mary book, and so on.




Henry Richards (1970) Trinidadian Folk Usage and Standard English: A
Contrastive Study, Word, 26:1, 79-87, DOI: 10.1080/00437956.1970.11435582






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New contributor




jDo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • Presumably this is not the case in predicative uses (“The pencil is Carl”)?
    – Janus Bahs Jacquet
    Oct 2 at 10:13










  • I suspect The pencil Carl own. for that, combining zero copula, zero possessive, and own.
    – JdeBP
    Oct 2 at 11:46


















up vote
3
down vote













This is called a zero possessive and it is fairly strongly argued by some linguists that it is not (as others have it) "lazy", merely dialectal, or indeed even incorrect. Rather, it is the correct grammar of creoles such as Trinidadian Creole; and a form, moreover, that is considered the origin of the same construct in AAVE and what has been termed Black British English or Black English Vernacular.



Here is William Alexander Stewart on the subject:


For the teacher, this means that such "Negro" patterns as the "zero copula", the "zero possessive" or "undifferentiated pronouns" should not be ascribed to greater carelessness, laziness, or stupidity on the part of Negroes, but rather should be treated as what they really are — language patterns which have been in existence for generations and which their present users have acquired, from parent and peer, through a perfectly normal kind of language-learning process.Stewart 1968


John H. McWhorter asserts that this is the sort of grammatical simplification that can be seen throughout the centuries through Old English and Modern Standard English through to Black British English and such creoles. He also makes the point that it cannot be traced to influence from British English dialects or to West African languages, none of which exhibit this feature to anywhere near an equivalent degree. McWhorter 2008 p. 58



Luisanna Fodde says that the zero possessive and other such grammatical features —


— have a very high sistematicity and precision of expression. They are never careless omissions or a proof of linguistic confusions.Fodde 2003 p. 494


William Labov argues that treating the zero possessive as the elimination of consonant clusters, as the quotation in the question does, is "not the most likely interpretation" given that it "is absent after vowels just as frequently as after consonants for many speakers" of Black British English.Labov 1972 p. 24




  • William A. Stewart (Spring 1968). "Continuity and change in American Negro dialects". In Alfred C. Aarons The Florida FL Reporter. Volume 6. Issue 1. pp. 3,4,14–16,18.

  • John H. McWhorter (2018). "Is Creolization just Language Mixture?". The Creole Debate. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9781108428644.

  • Luisanna Fodde (2003). "Ethnic dialects and mainstream English in the U.S.A.". In Carmela Nocera, Gemma Persico, Rosario Portale Rites of Passage: Rational/Irrational Natural/Supernatural Local/Global. Rubbettino Editore. ISBN 9788849806571.

  • William Labov (1972). "The Structure of BEV". Language in the Inner City: Studies in the Black English Vernacular. University of Pennsylvania Press.
    ISBN 9780812210514.





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    The other thing to say ... In John watched TV, it may happen that, when spoken, the "T" sound at the end of watched could be merged with the "T" sound at the beginning of TV. And thus an inexperienced listener may hear it as John watch TV.






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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      24
      down vote



      accepted










      One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.



      An excerpt:




      Possession in AAVE is also different. It can be shown by proximity where the
      owner’s name comes before the object owned. For instance, “She over Mary house”
      (Dandy, 1991, p.49). In this sentence you know that the house belongs to Mary
      because her name precedes the object owned. However, in SE, the only way to
      show possession is to add 's after the owner’s name.




      In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).






      share|improve this answer






















      • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
        – MetaEd♦
        Oct 2 at 19:56














      up vote
      24
      down vote



      accepted










      One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.



      An excerpt:




      Possession in AAVE is also different. It can be shown by proximity where the
      owner’s name comes before the object owned. For instance, “She over Mary house”
      (Dandy, 1991, p.49). In this sentence you know that the house belongs to Mary
      because her name precedes the object owned. However, in SE, the only way to
      show possession is to add 's after the owner’s name.




      In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).






      share|improve this answer






















      • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
        – MetaEd♦
        Oct 2 at 19:56












      up vote
      24
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      24
      down vote



      accepted






      One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.



      An excerpt:




      Possession in AAVE is also different. It can be shown by proximity where the
      owner’s name comes before the object owned. For instance, “She over Mary house”
      (Dandy, 1991, p.49). In this sentence you know that the house belongs to Mary
      because her name precedes the object owned. However, in SE, the only way to
      show possession is to add 's after the owner’s name.




      In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).






      share|improve this answer














      One American dialect where you can say Mary book rather than Mary's book, is African American Vernacular English, spoken mainly in the African American community. See this article.



      An excerpt:




      Possession in AAVE is also different. It can be shown by proximity where the
      owner’s name comes before the object owned. For instance, “She over Mary house”
      (Dandy, 1991, p.49). In this sentence you know that the house belongs to Mary
      because her name precedes the object owned. However, in SE, the only way to
      show possession is to add 's after the owner’s name.




      In all other dialects of American English I am aware of, including standard American English, you need to pronounce the /z/ in Mary's book (although not always in other possessive phrases, like Claude's stuff or James's coat).







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Oct 1 at 0:51

























      answered Sep 30 at 19:53









      Peter Shor

      59.4k5114210




      59.4k5114210











      • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
        – MetaEd♦
        Oct 2 at 19:56
















      • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
        – MetaEd♦
        Oct 2 at 19:56















      Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
      – MetaEd♦
      Oct 2 at 19:56




      Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
      – MetaEd♦
      Oct 2 at 19:56












      up vote
      17
      down vote













      The omission of the possessive suffix is very common in many Caribbean dialects. Here's a short excerpt from an article on Trinidadian folk speech that happens to include your "Mary book" example:




      With regard to expressing the possessive concept, inflectional
      suffixation is completely lost in the folk speech. Standard English
      marks possession in nouns by inflection and word order. To the noun is
      added the inflectional morpheme s, and the inflected noun is placed
      before another noun and its modifier or in the final position after a
      copula: Carl's pencil; the pencil is Carl's. Trinidadian folk speech
      dispenses with suffixation altogether when showing possession but
      follows the adjective word order: Carl pencil, Mary book, and so on.




      Henry Richards (1970) Trinidadian Folk Usage and Standard English: A
      Contrastive Study, Word, 26:1, 79-87, DOI: 10.1080/00437956.1970.11435582






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      jDo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.

















      • Presumably this is not the case in predicative uses (“The pencil is Carl”)?
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        Oct 2 at 10:13










      • I suspect The pencil Carl own. for that, combining zero copula, zero possessive, and own.
        – JdeBP
        Oct 2 at 11:46















      up vote
      17
      down vote













      The omission of the possessive suffix is very common in many Caribbean dialects. Here's a short excerpt from an article on Trinidadian folk speech that happens to include your "Mary book" example:




      With regard to expressing the possessive concept, inflectional
      suffixation is completely lost in the folk speech. Standard English
      marks possession in nouns by inflection and word order. To the noun is
      added the inflectional morpheme s, and the inflected noun is placed
      before another noun and its modifier or in the final position after a
      copula: Carl's pencil; the pencil is Carl's. Trinidadian folk speech
      dispenses with suffixation altogether when showing possession but
      follows the adjective word order: Carl pencil, Mary book, and so on.




      Henry Richards (1970) Trinidadian Folk Usage and Standard English: A
      Contrastive Study, Word, 26:1, 79-87, DOI: 10.1080/00437956.1970.11435582






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      jDo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.

















      • Presumably this is not the case in predicative uses (“The pencil is Carl”)?
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        Oct 2 at 10:13










      • I suspect The pencil Carl own. for that, combining zero copula, zero possessive, and own.
        – JdeBP
        Oct 2 at 11:46













      up vote
      17
      down vote










      up vote
      17
      down vote









      The omission of the possessive suffix is very common in many Caribbean dialects. Here's a short excerpt from an article on Trinidadian folk speech that happens to include your "Mary book" example:




      With regard to expressing the possessive concept, inflectional
      suffixation is completely lost in the folk speech. Standard English
      marks possession in nouns by inflection and word order. To the noun is
      added the inflectional morpheme s, and the inflected noun is placed
      before another noun and its modifier or in the final position after a
      copula: Carl's pencil; the pencil is Carl's. Trinidadian folk speech
      dispenses with suffixation altogether when showing possession but
      follows the adjective word order: Carl pencil, Mary book, and so on.




      Henry Richards (1970) Trinidadian Folk Usage and Standard English: A
      Contrastive Study, Word, 26:1, 79-87, DOI: 10.1080/00437956.1970.11435582






      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      jDo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      The omission of the possessive suffix is very common in many Caribbean dialects. Here's a short excerpt from an article on Trinidadian folk speech that happens to include your "Mary book" example:




      With regard to expressing the possessive concept, inflectional
      suffixation is completely lost in the folk speech. Standard English
      marks possession in nouns by inflection and word order. To the noun is
      added the inflectional morpheme s, and the inflected noun is placed
      before another noun and its modifier or in the final position after a
      copula: Carl's pencil; the pencil is Carl's. Trinidadian folk speech
      dispenses with suffixation altogether when showing possession but
      follows the adjective word order: Carl pencil, Mary book, and so on.




      Henry Richards (1970) Trinidadian Folk Usage and Standard English: A
      Contrastive Study, Word, 26:1, 79-87, DOI: 10.1080/00437956.1970.11435582







      share|improve this answer










      New contributor




      jDo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.









      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Oct 1 at 9:51









      Toby Speight

      570411




      570411






      New contributor




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      answered Oct 1 at 0:29









      jDo

      27115




      27115




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      New contributor





      jDo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.






      jDo is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      • Presumably this is not the case in predicative uses (“The pencil is Carl”)?
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        Oct 2 at 10:13










      • I suspect The pencil Carl own. for that, combining zero copula, zero possessive, and own.
        – JdeBP
        Oct 2 at 11:46

















      • Presumably this is not the case in predicative uses (“The pencil is Carl”)?
        – Janus Bahs Jacquet
        Oct 2 at 10:13










      • I suspect The pencil Carl own. for that, combining zero copula, zero possessive, and own.
        – JdeBP
        Oct 2 at 11:46
















      Presumably this is not the case in predicative uses (“The pencil is Carl”)?
      – Janus Bahs Jacquet
      Oct 2 at 10:13




      Presumably this is not the case in predicative uses (“The pencil is Carl”)?
      – Janus Bahs Jacquet
      Oct 2 at 10:13












      I suspect The pencil Carl own. for that, combining zero copula, zero possessive, and own.
      – JdeBP
      Oct 2 at 11:46





      I suspect The pencil Carl own. for that, combining zero copula, zero possessive, and own.
      – JdeBP
      Oct 2 at 11:46











      up vote
      3
      down vote













      This is called a zero possessive and it is fairly strongly argued by some linguists that it is not (as others have it) "lazy", merely dialectal, or indeed even incorrect. Rather, it is the correct grammar of creoles such as Trinidadian Creole; and a form, moreover, that is considered the origin of the same construct in AAVE and what has been termed Black British English or Black English Vernacular.



      Here is William Alexander Stewart on the subject:


      For the teacher, this means that such "Negro" patterns as the "zero copula", the "zero possessive" or "undifferentiated pronouns" should not be ascribed to greater carelessness, laziness, or stupidity on the part of Negroes, but rather should be treated as what they really are — language patterns which have been in existence for generations and which their present users have acquired, from parent and peer, through a perfectly normal kind of language-learning process.Stewart 1968


      John H. McWhorter asserts that this is the sort of grammatical simplification that can be seen throughout the centuries through Old English and Modern Standard English through to Black British English and such creoles. He also makes the point that it cannot be traced to influence from British English dialects or to West African languages, none of which exhibit this feature to anywhere near an equivalent degree. McWhorter 2008 p. 58



      Luisanna Fodde says that the zero possessive and other such grammatical features —


      — have a very high sistematicity and precision of expression. They are never careless omissions or a proof of linguistic confusions.Fodde 2003 p. 494


      William Labov argues that treating the zero possessive as the elimination of consonant clusters, as the quotation in the question does, is "not the most likely interpretation" given that it "is absent after vowels just as frequently as after consonants for many speakers" of Black British English.Labov 1972 p. 24




      • William A. Stewart (Spring 1968). "Continuity and change in American Negro dialects". In Alfred C. Aarons The Florida FL Reporter. Volume 6. Issue 1. pp. 3,4,14–16,18.

      • John H. McWhorter (2018). "Is Creolization just Language Mixture?". The Creole Debate. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9781108428644.

      • Luisanna Fodde (2003). "Ethnic dialects and mainstream English in the U.S.A.". In Carmela Nocera, Gemma Persico, Rosario Portale Rites of Passage: Rational/Irrational Natural/Supernatural Local/Global. Rubbettino Editore. ISBN 9788849806571.

      • William Labov (1972). "The Structure of BEV". Language in the Inner City: Studies in the Black English Vernacular. University of Pennsylvania Press.
        ISBN 9780812210514.





      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        3
        down vote













        This is called a zero possessive and it is fairly strongly argued by some linguists that it is not (as others have it) "lazy", merely dialectal, or indeed even incorrect. Rather, it is the correct grammar of creoles such as Trinidadian Creole; and a form, moreover, that is considered the origin of the same construct in AAVE and what has been termed Black British English or Black English Vernacular.



        Here is William Alexander Stewart on the subject:


        For the teacher, this means that such "Negro" patterns as the "zero copula", the "zero possessive" or "undifferentiated pronouns" should not be ascribed to greater carelessness, laziness, or stupidity on the part of Negroes, but rather should be treated as what they really are — language patterns which have been in existence for generations and which their present users have acquired, from parent and peer, through a perfectly normal kind of language-learning process.Stewart 1968


        John H. McWhorter asserts that this is the sort of grammatical simplification that can be seen throughout the centuries through Old English and Modern Standard English through to Black British English and such creoles. He also makes the point that it cannot be traced to influence from British English dialects or to West African languages, none of which exhibit this feature to anywhere near an equivalent degree. McWhorter 2008 p. 58



        Luisanna Fodde says that the zero possessive and other such grammatical features —


        — have a very high sistematicity and precision of expression. They are never careless omissions or a proof of linguistic confusions.Fodde 2003 p. 494


        William Labov argues that treating the zero possessive as the elimination of consonant clusters, as the quotation in the question does, is "not the most likely interpretation" given that it "is absent after vowels just as frequently as after consonants for many speakers" of Black British English.Labov 1972 p. 24




        • William A. Stewart (Spring 1968). "Continuity and change in American Negro dialects". In Alfred C. Aarons The Florida FL Reporter. Volume 6. Issue 1. pp. 3,4,14–16,18.

        • John H. McWhorter (2018). "Is Creolization just Language Mixture?". The Creole Debate. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9781108428644.

        • Luisanna Fodde (2003). "Ethnic dialects and mainstream English in the U.S.A.". In Carmela Nocera, Gemma Persico, Rosario Portale Rites of Passage: Rational/Irrational Natural/Supernatural Local/Global. Rubbettino Editore. ISBN 9788849806571.

        • William Labov (1972). "The Structure of BEV". Language in the Inner City: Studies in the Black English Vernacular. University of Pennsylvania Press.
          ISBN 9780812210514.





        share|improve this answer






















          up vote
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          down vote










          up vote
          3
          down vote









          This is called a zero possessive and it is fairly strongly argued by some linguists that it is not (as others have it) "lazy", merely dialectal, or indeed even incorrect. Rather, it is the correct grammar of creoles such as Trinidadian Creole; and a form, moreover, that is considered the origin of the same construct in AAVE and what has been termed Black British English or Black English Vernacular.



          Here is William Alexander Stewart on the subject:


          For the teacher, this means that such "Negro" patterns as the "zero copula", the "zero possessive" or "undifferentiated pronouns" should not be ascribed to greater carelessness, laziness, or stupidity on the part of Negroes, but rather should be treated as what they really are — language patterns which have been in existence for generations and which their present users have acquired, from parent and peer, through a perfectly normal kind of language-learning process.Stewart 1968


          John H. McWhorter asserts that this is the sort of grammatical simplification that can be seen throughout the centuries through Old English and Modern Standard English through to Black British English and such creoles. He also makes the point that it cannot be traced to influence from British English dialects or to West African languages, none of which exhibit this feature to anywhere near an equivalent degree. McWhorter 2008 p. 58



          Luisanna Fodde says that the zero possessive and other such grammatical features —


          — have a very high sistematicity and precision of expression. They are never careless omissions or a proof of linguistic confusions.Fodde 2003 p. 494


          William Labov argues that treating the zero possessive as the elimination of consonant clusters, as the quotation in the question does, is "not the most likely interpretation" given that it "is absent after vowels just as frequently as after consonants for many speakers" of Black British English.Labov 1972 p. 24




          • William A. Stewart (Spring 1968). "Continuity and change in American Negro dialects". In Alfred C. Aarons The Florida FL Reporter. Volume 6. Issue 1. pp. 3,4,14–16,18.

          • John H. McWhorter (2018). "Is Creolization just Language Mixture?". The Creole Debate. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9781108428644.

          • Luisanna Fodde (2003). "Ethnic dialects and mainstream English in the U.S.A.". In Carmela Nocera, Gemma Persico, Rosario Portale Rites of Passage: Rational/Irrational Natural/Supernatural Local/Global. Rubbettino Editore. ISBN 9788849806571.

          • William Labov (1972). "The Structure of BEV". Language in the Inner City: Studies in the Black English Vernacular. University of Pennsylvania Press.
            ISBN 9780812210514.





          share|improve this answer












          This is called a zero possessive and it is fairly strongly argued by some linguists that it is not (as others have it) "lazy", merely dialectal, or indeed even incorrect. Rather, it is the correct grammar of creoles such as Trinidadian Creole; and a form, moreover, that is considered the origin of the same construct in AAVE and what has been termed Black British English or Black English Vernacular.



          Here is William Alexander Stewart on the subject:


          For the teacher, this means that such "Negro" patterns as the "zero copula", the "zero possessive" or "undifferentiated pronouns" should not be ascribed to greater carelessness, laziness, or stupidity on the part of Negroes, but rather should be treated as what they really are — language patterns which have been in existence for generations and which their present users have acquired, from parent and peer, through a perfectly normal kind of language-learning process.Stewart 1968


          John H. McWhorter asserts that this is the sort of grammatical simplification that can be seen throughout the centuries through Old English and Modern Standard English through to Black British English and such creoles. He also makes the point that it cannot be traced to influence from British English dialects or to West African languages, none of which exhibit this feature to anywhere near an equivalent degree. McWhorter 2008 p. 58



          Luisanna Fodde says that the zero possessive and other such grammatical features —


          — have a very high sistematicity and precision of expression. They are never careless omissions or a proof of linguistic confusions.Fodde 2003 p. 494


          William Labov argues that treating the zero possessive as the elimination of consonant clusters, as the quotation in the question does, is "not the most likely interpretation" given that it "is absent after vowels just as frequently as after consonants for many speakers" of Black British English.Labov 1972 p. 24




          • William A. Stewart (Spring 1968). "Continuity and change in American Negro dialects". In Alfred C. Aarons The Florida FL Reporter. Volume 6. Issue 1. pp. 3,4,14–16,18.

          • John H. McWhorter (2018). "Is Creolization just Language Mixture?". The Creole Debate. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9781108428644.

          • Luisanna Fodde (2003). "Ethnic dialects and mainstream English in the U.S.A.". In Carmela Nocera, Gemma Persico, Rosario Portale Rites of Passage: Rational/Irrational Natural/Supernatural Local/Global. Rubbettino Editore. ISBN 9788849806571.

          • William Labov (1972). "The Structure of BEV". Language in the Inner City: Studies in the Black English Vernacular. University of Pennsylvania Press.
            ISBN 9780812210514.






          share|improve this answer












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          answered Oct 1 at 22:39









          JdeBP

          20616




          20616




















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              The other thing to say ... In John watched TV, it may happen that, when spoken, the "T" sound at the end of watched could be merged with the "T" sound at the beginning of TV. And thus an inexperienced listener may hear it as John watch TV.






              share|improve this answer
























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                The other thing to say ... In John watched TV, it may happen that, when spoken, the "T" sound at the end of watched could be merged with the "T" sound at the beginning of TV. And thus an inexperienced listener may hear it as John watch TV.






                share|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  The other thing to say ... In John watched TV, it may happen that, when spoken, the "T" sound at the end of watched could be merged with the "T" sound at the beginning of TV. And thus an inexperienced listener may hear it as John watch TV.






                  share|improve this answer












                  The other thing to say ... In John watched TV, it may happen that, when spoken, the "T" sound at the end of watched could be merged with the "T" sound at the beginning of TV. And thus an inexperienced listener may hear it as John watch TV.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Oct 2 at 11:08









                  GEdgar

                  12.3k21942




                  12.3k21942















                      protected by Community♦ Oct 2 at 11:21



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