Making a job offer to a candidate while privately advising them to decline

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;







up vote
140
down vote

favorite
4












I work at a small technology company (12 employees). This past summer I managed a bright, talented intern (a rising college senior) who did great work.



My boss (the CEO) and others in the company want us to make a full-time offer to this intern, and by all reasonable assessment she absolutely deserves the offer. Because I was her manager the task of discussing the offer and working out the details has fallen to me (we don't have a "real" HR department to coordinate hiring).



Problem is, the company is very dysfunctional, and I strongly believe that even if it survives until her graduation, it'll be on a clear path to failure. I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).



I feel terrible extending the offer and having to convince her to join a company when in my heart I think it would be a terrible career move for someone's first job after graduation. That said, she earned the offer and I wouldn't feel right to stomp it out internally without letting her make the choice.



I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?










share|improve this question







New contributor




user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 33




    It's one thing hiding corporate dysfunction during an interview. Regardless of legalities and ethics, however, she surely must have obtained some insight as an intern.
    – Laconic Droid
    yesterday






  • 17




    If this other (nightmare) Manager is going to be managing her, would it not be prudent for the intern to meet with them first, before deciding whether or not to accept the offer? If it were me, I would certainly want to meet my prospective new Manager first, to get a feel for what to expect and how good the 'personality fit' would be. Because, the relationship with your direct Manager is so important.
    – Time4Tea
    yesterday







  • 12




    There's are two real problems with telling the candidate. Firstly they may not respect the absolute confidentiality of that information. Secondly they may think the OP is trying to put them off to e.g. get the position for a friend. The OP needs to be ready for potential big problems with doing this. It's the ethical thing to do, but it won't necessarily look that way to the candidate (and the OP's employer - or next employer (!) if word gets back to them).
    – StephenG
    yesterday






  • 4




    I'd be careful about any prognosis about a company's future unless you know its financials are so dire it has to shutdown in a few months for sure. Even that can change. I've heard people say similar things about companies that went on to stay in business and prosper for years to come. Sometimes people that feel miserable (or totally happy) in their position also over-estimate the problems / good work they see and that impact on the company as a whole. Not saying you are definitely wrong, but it's hard to be right with such things.
    – Darkwing
    yesterday







  • 12




    @LaconicDroid not necessarily, many young unexperienced people don't realize those warning signs.
    – mathreadler
    22 hours ago
















up vote
140
down vote

favorite
4












I work at a small technology company (12 employees). This past summer I managed a bright, talented intern (a rising college senior) who did great work.



My boss (the CEO) and others in the company want us to make a full-time offer to this intern, and by all reasonable assessment she absolutely deserves the offer. Because I was her manager the task of discussing the offer and working out the details has fallen to me (we don't have a "real" HR department to coordinate hiring).



Problem is, the company is very dysfunctional, and I strongly believe that even if it survives until her graduation, it'll be on a clear path to failure. I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).



I feel terrible extending the offer and having to convince her to join a company when in my heart I think it would be a terrible career move for someone's first job after graduation. That said, she earned the offer and I wouldn't feel right to stomp it out internally without letting her make the choice.



I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?










share|improve this question







New contributor




user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 33




    It's one thing hiding corporate dysfunction during an interview. Regardless of legalities and ethics, however, she surely must have obtained some insight as an intern.
    – Laconic Droid
    yesterday






  • 17




    If this other (nightmare) Manager is going to be managing her, would it not be prudent for the intern to meet with them first, before deciding whether or not to accept the offer? If it were me, I would certainly want to meet my prospective new Manager first, to get a feel for what to expect and how good the 'personality fit' would be. Because, the relationship with your direct Manager is so important.
    – Time4Tea
    yesterday







  • 12




    There's are two real problems with telling the candidate. Firstly they may not respect the absolute confidentiality of that information. Secondly they may think the OP is trying to put them off to e.g. get the position for a friend. The OP needs to be ready for potential big problems with doing this. It's the ethical thing to do, but it won't necessarily look that way to the candidate (and the OP's employer - or next employer (!) if word gets back to them).
    – StephenG
    yesterday






  • 4




    I'd be careful about any prognosis about a company's future unless you know its financials are so dire it has to shutdown in a few months for sure. Even that can change. I've heard people say similar things about companies that went on to stay in business and prosper for years to come. Sometimes people that feel miserable (or totally happy) in their position also over-estimate the problems / good work they see and that impact on the company as a whole. Not saying you are definitely wrong, but it's hard to be right with such things.
    – Darkwing
    yesterday







  • 12




    @LaconicDroid not necessarily, many young unexperienced people don't realize those warning signs.
    – mathreadler
    22 hours ago












up vote
140
down vote

favorite
4









up vote
140
down vote

favorite
4






4





I work at a small technology company (12 employees). This past summer I managed a bright, talented intern (a rising college senior) who did great work.



My boss (the CEO) and others in the company want us to make a full-time offer to this intern, and by all reasonable assessment she absolutely deserves the offer. Because I was her manager the task of discussing the offer and working out the details has fallen to me (we don't have a "real" HR department to coordinate hiring).



Problem is, the company is very dysfunctional, and I strongly believe that even if it survives until her graduation, it'll be on a clear path to failure. I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).



I feel terrible extending the offer and having to convince her to join a company when in my heart I think it would be a terrible career move for someone's first job after graduation. That said, she earned the offer and I wouldn't feel right to stomp it out internally without letting her make the choice.



I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?










share|improve this question







New contributor




user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I work at a small technology company (12 employees). This past summer I managed a bright, talented intern (a rising college senior) who did great work.



My boss (the CEO) and others in the company want us to make a full-time offer to this intern, and by all reasonable assessment she absolutely deserves the offer. Because I was her manager the task of discussing the offer and working out the details has fallen to me (we don't have a "real" HR department to coordinate hiring).



Problem is, the company is very dysfunctional, and I strongly believe that even if it survives until her graduation, it'll be on a clear path to failure. I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).



I feel terrible extending the offer and having to convince her to join a company when in my heart I think it would be a terrible career move for someone's first job after graduation. That said, she earned the offer and I wouldn't feel right to stomp it out internally without letting her make the choice.



I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?







internship hiring






share|improve this question







New contributor




user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor




user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked yesterday









user94511

421224




421224




New contributor




user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






user94511 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 33




    It's one thing hiding corporate dysfunction during an interview. Regardless of legalities and ethics, however, she surely must have obtained some insight as an intern.
    – Laconic Droid
    yesterday






  • 17




    If this other (nightmare) Manager is going to be managing her, would it not be prudent for the intern to meet with them first, before deciding whether or not to accept the offer? If it were me, I would certainly want to meet my prospective new Manager first, to get a feel for what to expect and how good the 'personality fit' would be. Because, the relationship with your direct Manager is so important.
    – Time4Tea
    yesterday







  • 12




    There's are two real problems with telling the candidate. Firstly they may not respect the absolute confidentiality of that information. Secondly they may think the OP is trying to put them off to e.g. get the position for a friend. The OP needs to be ready for potential big problems with doing this. It's the ethical thing to do, but it won't necessarily look that way to the candidate (and the OP's employer - or next employer (!) if word gets back to them).
    – StephenG
    yesterday






  • 4




    I'd be careful about any prognosis about a company's future unless you know its financials are so dire it has to shutdown in a few months for sure. Even that can change. I've heard people say similar things about companies that went on to stay in business and prosper for years to come. Sometimes people that feel miserable (or totally happy) in their position also over-estimate the problems / good work they see and that impact on the company as a whole. Not saying you are definitely wrong, but it's hard to be right with such things.
    – Darkwing
    yesterday







  • 12




    @LaconicDroid not necessarily, many young unexperienced people don't realize those warning signs.
    – mathreadler
    22 hours ago












  • 33




    It's one thing hiding corporate dysfunction during an interview. Regardless of legalities and ethics, however, she surely must have obtained some insight as an intern.
    – Laconic Droid
    yesterday






  • 17




    If this other (nightmare) Manager is going to be managing her, would it not be prudent for the intern to meet with them first, before deciding whether or not to accept the offer? If it were me, I would certainly want to meet my prospective new Manager first, to get a feel for what to expect and how good the 'personality fit' would be. Because, the relationship with your direct Manager is so important.
    – Time4Tea
    yesterday







  • 12




    There's are two real problems with telling the candidate. Firstly they may not respect the absolute confidentiality of that information. Secondly they may think the OP is trying to put them off to e.g. get the position for a friend. The OP needs to be ready for potential big problems with doing this. It's the ethical thing to do, but it won't necessarily look that way to the candidate (and the OP's employer - or next employer (!) if word gets back to them).
    – StephenG
    yesterday






  • 4




    I'd be careful about any prognosis about a company's future unless you know its financials are so dire it has to shutdown in a few months for sure. Even that can change. I've heard people say similar things about companies that went on to stay in business and prosper for years to come. Sometimes people that feel miserable (or totally happy) in their position also over-estimate the problems / good work they see and that impact on the company as a whole. Not saying you are definitely wrong, but it's hard to be right with such things.
    – Darkwing
    yesterday







  • 12




    @LaconicDroid not necessarily, many young unexperienced people don't realize those warning signs.
    – mathreadler
    22 hours ago







33




33




It's one thing hiding corporate dysfunction during an interview. Regardless of legalities and ethics, however, she surely must have obtained some insight as an intern.
– Laconic Droid
yesterday




It's one thing hiding corporate dysfunction during an interview. Regardless of legalities and ethics, however, she surely must have obtained some insight as an intern.
– Laconic Droid
yesterday




17




17




If this other (nightmare) Manager is going to be managing her, would it not be prudent for the intern to meet with them first, before deciding whether or not to accept the offer? If it were me, I would certainly want to meet my prospective new Manager first, to get a feel for what to expect and how good the 'personality fit' would be. Because, the relationship with your direct Manager is so important.
– Time4Tea
yesterday





If this other (nightmare) Manager is going to be managing her, would it not be prudent for the intern to meet with them first, before deciding whether or not to accept the offer? If it were me, I would certainly want to meet my prospective new Manager first, to get a feel for what to expect and how good the 'personality fit' would be. Because, the relationship with your direct Manager is so important.
– Time4Tea
yesterday





12




12




There's are two real problems with telling the candidate. Firstly they may not respect the absolute confidentiality of that information. Secondly they may think the OP is trying to put them off to e.g. get the position for a friend. The OP needs to be ready for potential big problems with doing this. It's the ethical thing to do, but it won't necessarily look that way to the candidate (and the OP's employer - or next employer (!) if word gets back to them).
– StephenG
yesterday




There's are two real problems with telling the candidate. Firstly they may not respect the absolute confidentiality of that information. Secondly they may think the OP is trying to put them off to e.g. get the position for a friend. The OP needs to be ready for potential big problems with doing this. It's the ethical thing to do, but it won't necessarily look that way to the candidate (and the OP's employer - or next employer (!) if word gets back to them).
– StephenG
yesterday




4




4




I'd be careful about any prognosis about a company's future unless you know its financials are so dire it has to shutdown in a few months for sure. Even that can change. I've heard people say similar things about companies that went on to stay in business and prosper for years to come. Sometimes people that feel miserable (or totally happy) in their position also over-estimate the problems / good work they see and that impact on the company as a whole. Not saying you are definitely wrong, but it's hard to be right with such things.
– Darkwing
yesterday





I'd be careful about any prognosis about a company's future unless you know its financials are so dire it has to shutdown in a few months for sure. Even that can change. I've heard people say similar things about companies that went on to stay in business and prosper for years to come. Sometimes people that feel miserable (or totally happy) in their position also over-estimate the problems / good work they see and that impact on the company as a whole. Not saying you are definitely wrong, but it's hard to be right with such things.
– Darkwing
yesterday





12




12




@LaconicDroid not necessarily, many young unexperienced people don't realize those warning signs.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago




@LaconicDroid not necessarily, many young unexperienced people don't realize those warning signs.
– mathreadler
22 hours ago










14 Answers
14






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
134
down vote













Meet her for a coffee. (If you're a guy, mention that it's to talk about her career and meet her in a totally non-romantic setting, otherwise she might get scared you are interested in her romantically).



During a 1:1 conversation there are plenty of ways you can say something without saying anything that could cost you your job:



  • ask her about her plans - when she says she's applying, stress that you will be happy to provide references

  • mention that a job in your company is also an option, that you were happy with her, but imply that many changes are coming... The culture is something that not everybody likes and her new boss has a management style very different to yours.

  • stress that she should think it over and that you won't take offense if she rejects the offer.

It's a lot about your tone.



You shouldn't say too much but if she's smart she will understand.



Referring to the previous answer: yes, you need to stay loyal to your company. But if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways. So it is in the interest of the company for you to let her know what she can expect.






share|improve this answer


















  • 8




    I agree with this. Seeing as you managed her as an intern, I don't think there would be much harm in meeting her for a coffee informally and discussing some of the wider issues that are going on in the company, so that she can be more aware and make an informed decision about whether or not to accept the offer.
    – Time4Tea
    yesterday






  • 5




    I almost agree. Blind loyalty is no virtue. If the reality is that the intern would be managed by an abusive "nightmare" were she to accept, OP would push her towards that outcome if they withheld that information. Out of respect for their intern, OP should be open with any objective information that would influence her decision (that doesn't also break NDA or existing legal contracts).
    – Alex Reinking
    yesterday







  • 25




    In particular, I think it is wrong to assume that "if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways." There are many reasons people stay in jobs they hate: the expenses involved in relocating, the uncertainty in finding a new job (especially early in one's career and without a recommendation from the former employer), their financial dependence on their continued employment, and even outright blackmail on the part of an abusive boss.
    – Alex Reinking
    yesterday






  • 2




    Good point Alex. I'd add to this advice to make it very clear that she's getting a good recommendation from the OP no matter what she chooses to do.
    – George M
    yesterday






  • 4




    Mentioning that a meeting invitation is "to talk about her career" is not likely to dispel fears of sexual harassment. On the contrary, it could be a red flag.
    – phoog
    15 hours ago

















up vote
52
down vote













Sounds to me like you don't owe this company any particular allegience -- the key to being ethical with this is separate your business responsibilities from your personal obligation not to harm this person.



Send the intern the offer from your corporate email with no comment on its desirability one way or the other.



Then phone the intern/meet in person on your own time and give her your thoughts on the company as an impartial human being.



She is then free to make up her own mind about what to do.






share|improve this answer
















  • 5




    i don't think the OP can be an "impartial human being". this is really about the relative value of loyalty to evidently a bad employer (who is still paying the OP's paycheck and deserves some measure of consideration for that) and the sense of responsibility to not harm this potential employee. this is a sorta sticky wicket.
    – robert bristow-johnson
    yesterday










  • The problem with this is her position at the company requires her to convince this qualified candidate to work for them. To run contrary to that on her "personal time" is problematic ethically and perhaps even legally. Bad employer or not, to actively sabotage their hiring of a future employee is a bad idea. Be honest about work conditions, but do not spin it in a way that clearly communicates "you should not work here." If she doesn't feel comfortable making the offer, she should get someone else to do it.
    – BlackThorn
    14 hours ago







  • 1




    @BlackThorn OP has the responsibility to help hire a good fit for the position. This usually doesn't include hiring someone who's going to hate the job and leave ASAP. Someone who reports to the CEO should have a lot of flexibility.
    – David Thornley
    12 hours ago

















up vote
44
down vote














I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to
decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I
should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?




Your boss told you to make the offer, and you acknowledge that she deserves the offer. Thus, you have to do it.



If she asks you about the offer or company, you can carefully disclose some of your feelings while still making it clear that this is solely her decision to make. And you can offer to be a great reference for her if this offer isn't what she is looking for.



Remember, she may not share your feelings about the company and manager. And while it's not what you want, it may still be what she wants.






share|improve this answer
















  • 9




    +1 - fulfill your duties to your employer by extending the offer; fulfill your moral obligations to your intern by warning her about a nightmare boss.
    – Alex Reinking
    yesterday






  • 3




    +1 that she might decide it's a good fit for her, so let her decide for herself. And who knows, the company might not go under. She could miss a great opportunity by not taking the offer. Not saying this is the case, but it's worth letting her decide for herself.
    – bob
    yesterday







  • 1




    Yep, important thing here is that she has the information to make an informed decision. Minor nitpick, "if she asks". Personally I would feel it my responsibility to share. She doesn't know what you know and may not feel the need to ask/be skeptical.
    – aw04
    16 hours ago

















up vote
23
down vote













Advice could be problematic; informed consent is not. Present her with the offer, as well as the relevant information that she needs to make an informed decision. The offer is not only for a position with a particular compensation package, it is for an employment relationship with the company. Like any relationship, there are not only benefits, but liabilities and responsibilities. She needs to be made aware of the reasons that underlie your desire to recommend against taking the position, and then leave her to make her own decision. As part of this, highlight things that she may otherwise overlook, such as the fact that in her role as an intern, she has been insulated from some of the less palatable aspects of working there, as well as the fact that her work experience and her exemplary performance would qualify her to work at any number of other employers, and that it’s always wise to assess multiple offers rather than accepting the first opportunity that presents itself. Also stress that you’d be happy to serve as a reference not only for this role, but for any role outside of the company.



Once you have laid all of your cards on the table, the decision to accept or reject the offer will truly be her decision, which she will be able to make with eyes wide open. She may choose to take the job and regret it. But if she does, it will be her choice and her learning experience. Unless you give her the relevant information, you’re depriving her of that opportunity to decide for herself. I appreciate your desire to go to bat for her. You just need to do so in a way that is equitable for all parties concerned. As long as you stick to the facts, you should be fine.






share|improve this answer








New contributor




S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • 7




    +1. I think the key thing is to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. It's not in the interest of the company either, if she joins and then quits after 2 months, because she didn't know what she was getting herself into.
    – Time4Tea
    yesterday










  • +1. But people give positive "you should come here" style advice all the time. I don't think it's out of line to give advice that would save someone from months or years of abuse from a "nightmare" manager.
    – Alex Reinking
    yesterday










  • @AlexReinking, there's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years if it isn't mutually beneficial. if the person in question is a third party, then I agree, giving advice is fine. However, as a representative of the company, you have an obligation to represent the interests of the company. Giving someone the information that they need to make a decision for themselves does a good job of balancing those interests. If someone was moving across the country for the job, I would agree that taking a more proactively cautionary tone would be advisable.
    – S. Hooley
    yesterday










  • "There's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years" except for an abusive boss who might threaten to blacklist them should they leave, the great expenses (both social and financial) involved in relocating, the difficulty in finding a new job (depending on the industry), etc. The only obligations to one's employer are those drawn out in contract, typically in the US, that's just the labor they were hired to do.
    – Alex Reinking
    yesterday

















up vote
21
down vote













One major reason not to do this is: what if she accepts the offer, despite your warnings?



You are now in a very awkward position: your junior is now in a position to blackmail you. This is especially important as you are considering jumping ship: your reputation capital gained at your current firm is at its most valuable.



Regardless of whether the moral thing to do is telling the excellent former intern that your company is toxic and destined for the corporate dustbin, you are now putting your own career in jeopardy.



A missed opportunity is a relatively minor thing early on in your career. Later on, being seen to act against your employer's interests and in a matter that is entirely work related... well, that's a line on your CV that you don't want.



Attorneys are qualified to give moral, legal and financial advice. Those are good headings under which to analyse this decision.



Morally - telling her the lay of the land is absolutely the correct thing to do. (Companies' personalities are a legal fiction and you owe them no moral loyalty - pay them no heed when considering right and wrong.)



Legally - regardless of whether or not you are doing the company legal damage (and you probably are - tortious interference is the first thing that comes to mind), if your current company were to sue you on any grounds, it wouldn't be hard for a good attorney to find some pretext to introduce this situation into evidence to (correctly) portray you as disloyal. (This is particularly bad if you are in a jurisdiction where a jury is the trier of fact in civil cases.) So, while nothing will probably come of this, legally, you're doing yourself no favours at all by telling the intern how things are.



Financially, there's no upside. Only potential downside. Grim as it is, your intern is a nobody and gaining her favour and gratitude gives you nothing tangible. (The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven don't figure on any balance sheets.)



So, no attorney could tell you it was in your best interest to do this. Probably, you'd get away with it, and nothing would happen, other than you would get a warm glow from having gained the gratitude of the former intern. However, if this whole thing went wrong, it would probably go wrong very badly for you.



To repeat: only downside.



It's your life you're talking about, more than hers, and prudence and discretion should be your watchwords.



By telling the intern how things are you aren't just being honest: you're asking her for her confidence, and that is by no means a given. A particularly mercenary and ambitious personality might even smell an opportunity in your indiscretion.



I can completely understand how someone might nevertheless want to go ahead and warn the intern despite this advice; however, doing so is not the sensible and considered thing to do.






share|improve this answer










New contributor




tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • 8




    There is some value to building relationships in an industry. And also more generally if you behave like you describe all of the time, you'll develop a reputation as a cold, calculating sociopath.
    – Brian Gordon
    15 hours ago











  • @BrianGordon I'm not advocating any general approach to life so I'm not really sure what you're on about: my answer is situation-specific and I'm only answering the question asked. There are real risks for OP in telling the intern that they should be aware of when making this decision. Do you really think OP is better off not considering them?
    – tmgr
    15 hours ago






  • 1




    Agree it's always good to consider the worst case scenario. I do think, however, it's not such a binary thing. There's a middle ground here where you can give the intern useful information to help make her decision without necessarily advising her to decline the offer or doing anything to lead to some of the more extreme outcomes.
    – aw04
    10 hours ago






  • 1




    @aw04 I agree with you! There are surely ways one could go about this. However, the question asked is: Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this? And that's what I've attempted to answer, without telling OP how to go about telling the intern or how much to tell her... because that's not what the question was. (Having said that, deliberately thwarting the company in its attempt to hire the intern is reasonable grounds for dismissal, and howsoever OP does it only really relates to their chances of getting caught.)
    – tmgr
    6 hours ago

















up vote
9
down vote













If this other Manager is as bad as you make them out to be, I recommend that you:



  1. Make sure she is aware that this other Manager is going to be managing her and that their style may be different to yours.

  2. Try to arrange for her to meet with this other Manager in person, before deciding whether to accept.

If she meets with the other Manager, then it may help her to get a better feel for what they are like, and whether they are someone that she can work with. If it was me, I would definitely want to meet with a prospective new Manager first, to make sure the 'personality fit' is right, because the relationship you have with your direct Manager is so important.



Otherwise, I agree with the other answers that recommend meeting her informally to discuss the situation. Don't advise her not to take it, but try to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. The decision has to be hers. Even if that other Manager is difficult to work with, she might decide it would be good to work there for 6 months to a year, just to get their name on her resume, which is fair enough.



Helping her to make an informed decision is not, in my opinion, contrary to the interests of the company. It would not be in the interests of the company, if she leaves after 2 months because she didn't realize what she was getting herself into.






share|improve this answer
















  • 6




    Having her meet with her potential manager is a great idea. I would expect this to be part of the process anyway. But if it's not, take it upon yourself to make it happen.
    – Joe Strazzere
    yesterday

















up vote
2
down vote














I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).




Only you know the extent of this would-be manager's abusiveness, but given that you deliberately shielded your intern from him, my instincts suggest he is quite bad indeed.



If giving her direct advice to reject the offer would spare her months or even years of abuse and would not constitute a worse roadblock in her career (perhaps offer her your recommendation to another job), then it is the company's problem that they keep so toxic a person in their employ. It might even save the company a lawsuit down the line, depending again on the manager's misbehavior.



Do, then, what the other answers suggest: give her the offer as is required by your job duties, and then (on your own time) give her all the objective, legal-to-divulge information she would need to make an informed decision. In particular, it sounds like you will need to tell her about this manager since she doesn't have any information about him already.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    2
    down vote













    Your only responsibility is to make sure she gets enough information to make an informed decision.



    We are talking here about a person who has already worked an internship at your company. She didn't work for Manager X but it's a 12-person company, I find it hard to believe that she knows nothing about him. At the maximum, try to broker a meeting between her and her prospective new manager prior to the offer.



    You need to realize that



    1. You may be burned out and being overly bitter. Apparently a bunch of other folks work at the company and haven't fled screaming. You are likely projecting your own dissatisfaction about random "inside baseball" decisions on a new grad that just wants some good experience coding and a good-looking resume line item of working for a startup. There is nothing "ethical" about spreading your negativity to someone else.


    2. Anything beyond openly discussing with the team that you think the role might not be a good fit for her is direct sabotage of your company. You seem to feel that no one should come work there because it's so bad. You should be looking for other opportunities instead of sabotaging them. As a hiring manager, if I found someone on my team had told a candidate "don't come here this company is dysfunctional," they would immediately be fired for cause.






    share|improve this answer



























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      You should not do this.



      As long as you work for the company, your allegiance and responsibility is to the company and not a potential future employee. You are free to decide for yourself whether to stay or go, but you should not be trying to keep the intern from joining the company. From your own review, she is a potentially valuable employee for the company and you would be actively trying to harm the company.



      While I can't speak to specific legal concerns, I would expect in any country that actively trying to damage the future of the company is a fire-able offense at a minimum.






      share|improve this answer
















      • 36




        This answers assumes that you somehow have an allegiance with your company outside the specific work you are hired to do. I don't think this is generally true. Both the company and the employee have to ensure that they are a good fit, you are asking the OP to lie about the fact that the company wont be a good fit for her. Given that we aren't in a capitalistic regime where the sole obligation is to money I'd do the right thing and just be honest about pros and cons and let her decide with full information. This is not actively harming the company, the company is harming itself by being awful.
        – Bakuriu
        yesterday






      • 17




        Is informing someone of all the pros and cons of a position REALLY against the companies interests, though? Doing so may prevent a situation where the person is hired on and leaves the company a week later, which would consume a lot of resources.
        – CrazyPaste
        yesterday






      • 17




        If you haven't noticed, companies have near 0 allegiance to their employees. Granted, they expect 100% loyalty from their employees, but very, very few show it to their employees. It's hard to buy into that one-way street.
        – FreeMan
        yesterday






      • 14




        @cdkMoose Absolutely wrong. Your moral responsibility to be honest and treat people well always trumps loyalty to your employer. To do otherwise marks someone as a horrible human being.
        – Gabe Sechan
        yesterday






      • 5




        @mxyzplk Instead of taking the feedback and fixing the problem. OK.
        – Konrad Rudolph
        22 hours ago


















      up vote
      1
      down vote













      I think the ethical thing would be to resign or at the very least ask somebody else to handle the hiring negotiations and process. You should not be in a position of trust while actively considering what is essentially sabotage, as much as I commend your protectiveness.






      share|improve this answer








      New contributor




      Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.
























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        I don't know the legal ramifications but I don't think you should name names - either of the company or the manager.



        If there is a way you can direct the intern to this thread, you could say something like "Of course interviews should work both ways so be aware of that. Have a look at this cautionary tale that I happened across."



        I repeat, I am no expert but this is probably what I would do.






        share|improve this answer




















        • I don't think avoiding the company name makes any difference. In this situation, both OP and intern know exactly what company is being addressed (and I think this would be obvious to any judge). The potential manager's identity might or might not be deducible from context. With our limited information, we probably won't be able to tell what would be the case. On the other hand, pointing to this SE question seems to have some merit, +1 for the idea. This way, OP avoids giving a specific advice while still providing all information needed for the intern to form an opinion of her own.
          – Inarion
          17 hours ago


















        up vote
        0
        down vote













        There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing; even if there isn't, this probably wouldn't look great for you to be doing.



        That said, there is a difference between making an offer and recommending the offer, and that's in presentation. You could go into the meeting and say "hey, you got the offer! Good job! Here's the contents of the offer. I think it's really great because XYZ". You could also go into the meeting and say "We have decided to present you an offer. The contents of the offer are XYZ. Please let us know your decision." One statement of the offer obviously plays up the offer and makes it more attractive to take. The other one doesn't. (IANAL) You are probably obligated only to present the offer, but not to be energetic about it, so just don't.






        share|improve this answer
















        • 5




          "There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing." This is extremely location-specific advice. White-collar direct employment jobs typically have no employment contract in the U.S., for example.
          – reirab
          yesterday










        • @reirab I doubt anyone involved in the hiring process doesn't have a contract - in addition, that's just extra reason to be cautious, as with no contract, it can be terminated at the drop of a hat if they get found out to be doing something like this.
          – UKMonkey
          17 hours ago










        • @UKMonkey Your doubt would be unfounded in regards to the U.S. It's extremely common for people involved in the hiring process in the U.S. to not have a contract. Employment contracts are mostly only for blue-collar jobs and extremely high-level management in the U.S. The vast majority of people involved in hiring processes (myself included) don't work on contract. Of course, contractors always work on contract (by definition,) but they aren't employees of the company and are rarely involved in hiring processes.
          – reirab
          15 hours ago











        • @reirab thanks ... the US sounds like a scary place to work!
          – UKMonkey
          13 hours ago











        • @UKMonkey Not really. Companies have no incentive to fire employees who are actually doing their jobs well. Replacing employees is expensive. Especially so for most white-collar jobs.
          – reirab
          13 hours ago


















        up vote
        0
        down vote













        You know this is somehow wrong, and you're looking for a way to do it anyway.



        Since you haven't marked one of the other answers as accepted, here's mine.




        I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it




        Write up the offer and print it out on company stationary.

        As you said, she deserves it.



        You can't actually advise her to decline it - you know that or you would have done it already.



        You can do other things like work to eliminate any guilt she may feel about declining it. If that happens to nudge her in the direction of declining it, well... you already think that's best for her right?



        Use the company email to inform her that [company] is so pleased with the job she did that [we] are prepared to discuss an offer. As her former supervisor it is your privilege to discuss be the person make the offer to her. Say that you'd like to do this off site so there is less pressure. (Seriously there's nothing more awkward than someone asking, "So, did you take it?" as you're walking to the parking lot)



        Suggest some well-lit coffee shop (anything not a bar, residence or restaurant). Tell her you expect it to take 30 minutes, but you're available for questions immediately or over the next few days.

        Explicitly say that she will receive a written job offer when you sit down with her (reinforces that you're meeting for business reasons).

        Explain that she WILL NOT be expected to accept or decline the offer at the meeting.

        (This expectation gives her time to think about the subtle things you will be saying and discuss those with a parent/friend/etc.)



        When you sit down with her:



        First explain that she did such a wonderful job for you that you would be available as a reference not just for this job, but for any other job she might have applied for recently or will apply for in the future.

        Be clear that your offer to be a reference is valid regardless of whether she accepts this offer.



        Second explain that she would be reporting to [the jerk], and not to you if she accepts. Mention that you won't have much interaction going forward (if this is appropriate).



        Then you can explain that internships 'are a sheltered experience'. Accepting this job means that she will be a regular employee and have to deal with all the junk that you have to (smile while saying it).



        Then you give her the written offer.

        As you hand it to her, tell her she can take it with her.



        After that she's on her own.

        This is her decision - you cannot in good conscience make this decision for her - which is why you can't tell her not to take it.



        For all you know, that person who you think is a nightmare to work with might have a totally different relationship with her. There's less than twenty people in the company, she has to at least be aware of that person, right?



        Finally, let it go.

        She's an adult now and needs to start reaping the rewards of her decisions - the good and the bad.






        share|improve this answer



























          up vote
          0
          down vote













          I do think it's appropriate to talk to her, but you need to do so in the right context.



          I have a practice when I interview candidates, work with interns, or extend job offers. I always set the stage by saying something along the lines of,




          I want to make sure this process is a two way street. In representing the company, I am going to be evaluating your skills and making a decision on your fitness for this position. But, I also want to make sure that you have the opportunity to decide for yourself if this company and this offer is a good fit for you. Do you have any questions about the responsibilities, the work culture, or other aspects of the job that are important to you?




          With very junior employees, or others who may not be well positioned to evaluate this via their own questioning (such as the employee you're considering), it's totally legitimate to plant some suggestions or leading questions.



          In other words, I don't think it's appropriate to tell her, "you don't want to work here" but I do think it's completely appropriate, and in everyone's best interest, to help her ask some questions that will lead her to making the best decision for her, with a full understanding of the employment environment.



          Also, to fully answer your question, I think it's important to ask yourself a few things in terms of the conclusion you've arrived at. Would be actually be a bad thing for her to work there? Or are you just assuming that?




          • working with a difficult manager can be a great learning experience for the employee. It's not something you'd wish on someone of course, but it can be a good opportunity for her to understand how to deal with difficult coworkers or superiors (which is a critically important skill that everyone should have)


          • working for a failing company can help her understand what makes companies fail, which may put her in a position to contribute some other employer in the future who may be starting to head down that path. I've worked for failing companies and while it's stressful, it's also incredibly eye opening


          • someone freshly out of college may simply need a job no matter how bad you think it is!





          share|improve this answer



















            protected by Jane S yesterday



            Thank you for your interest in this question.
            Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



            Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?














            14 Answers
            14






            active

            oldest

            votes








            14 Answers
            14






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            134
            down vote













            Meet her for a coffee. (If you're a guy, mention that it's to talk about her career and meet her in a totally non-romantic setting, otherwise she might get scared you are interested in her romantically).



            During a 1:1 conversation there are plenty of ways you can say something without saying anything that could cost you your job:



            • ask her about her plans - when she says she's applying, stress that you will be happy to provide references

            • mention that a job in your company is also an option, that you were happy with her, but imply that many changes are coming... The culture is something that not everybody likes and her new boss has a management style very different to yours.

            • stress that she should think it over and that you won't take offense if she rejects the offer.

            It's a lot about your tone.



            You shouldn't say too much but if she's smart she will understand.



            Referring to the previous answer: yes, you need to stay loyal to your company. But if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways. So it is in the interest of the company for you to let her know what she can expect.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 8




              I agree with this. Seeing as you managed her as an intern, I don't think there would be much harm in meeting her for a coffee informally and discussing some of the wider issues that are going on in the company, so that she can be more aware and make an informed decision about whether or not to accept the offer.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday






            • 5




              I almost agree. Blind loyalty is no virtue. If the reality is that the intern would be managed by an abusive "nightmare" were she to accept, OP would push her towards that outcome if they withheld that information. Out of respect for their intern, OP should be open with any objective information that would influence her decision (that doesn't also break NDA or existing legal contracts).
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday







            • 25




              In particular, I think it is wrong to assume that "if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways." There are many reasons people stay in jobs they hate: the expenses involved in relocating, the uncertainty in finding a new job (especially early in one's career and without a recommendation from the former employer), their financial dependence on their continued employment, and even outright blackmail on the part of an abusive boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 2




              Good point Alex. I'd add to this advice to make it very clear that she's getting a good recommendation from the OP no matter what she chooses to do.
              – George M
              yesterday






            • 4




              Mentioning that a meeting invitation is "to talk about her career" is not likely to dispel fears of sexual harassment. On the contrary, it could be a red flag.
              – phoog
              15 hours ago














            up vote
            134
            down vote













            Meet her for a coffee. (If you're a guy, mention that it's to talk about her career and meet her in a totally non-romantic setting, otherwise she might get scared you are interested in her romantically).



            During a 1:1 conversation there are plenty of ways you can say something without saying anything that could cost you your job:



            • ask her about her plans - when she says she's applying, stress that you will be happy to provide references

            • mention that a job in your company is also an option, that you were happy with her, but imply that many changes are coming... The culture is something that not everybody likes and her new boss has a management style very different to yours.

            • stress that she should think it over and that you won't take offense if she rejects the offer.

            It's a lot about your tone.



            You shouldn't say too much but if she's smart she will understand.



            Referring to the previous answer: yes, you need to stay loyal to your company. But if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways. So it is in the interest of the company for you to let her know what she can expect.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 8




              I agree with this. Seeing as you managed her as an intern, I don't think there would be much harm in meeting her for a coffee informally and discussing some of the wider issues that are going on in the company, so that she can be more aware and make an informed decision about whether or not to accept the offer.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday






            • 5




              I almost agree. Blind loyalty is no virtue. If the reality is that the intern would be managed by an abusive "nightmare" were she to accept, OP would push her towards that outcome if they withheld that information. Out of respect for their intern, OP should be open with any objective information that would influence her decision (that doesn't also break NDA or existing legal contracts).
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday







            • 25




              In particular, I think it is wrong to assume that "if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways." There are many reasons people stay in jobs they hate: the expenses involved in relocating, the uncertainty in finding a new job (especially early in one's career and without a recommendation from the former employer), their financial dependence on their continued employment, and even outright blackmail on the part of an abusive boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 2




              Good point Alex. I'd add to this advice to make it very clear that she's getting a good recommendation from the OP no matter what she chooses to do.
              – George M
              yesterday






            • 4




              Mentioning that a meeting invitation is "to talk about her career" is not likely to dispel fears of sexual harassment. On the contrary, it could be a red flag.
              – phoog
              15 hours ago












            up vote
            134
            down vote










            up vote
            134
            down vote









            Meet her for a coffee. (If you're a guy, mention that it's to talk about her career and meet her in a totally non-romantic setting, otherwise she might get scared you are interested in her romantically).



            During a 1:1 conversation there are plenty of ways you can say something without saying anything that could cost you your job:



            • ask her about her plans - when she says she's applying, stress that you will be happy to provide references

            • mention that a job in your company is also an option, that you were happy with her, but imply that many changes are coming... The culture is something that not everybody likes and her new boss has a management style very different to yours.

            • stress that she should think it over and that you won't take offense if she rejects the offer.

            It's a lot about your tone.



            You shouldn't say too much but if she's smart she will understand.



            Referring to the previous answer: yes, you need to stay loyal to your company. But if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways. So it is in the interest of the company for you to let her know what she can expect.






            share|improve this answer














            Meet her for a coffee. (If you're a guy, mention that it's to talk about her career and meet her in a totally non-romantic setting, otherwise she might get scared you are interested in her romantically).



            During a 1:1 conversation there are plenty of ways you can say something without saying anything that could cost you your job:



            • ask her about her plans - when she says she's applying, stress that you will be happy to provide references

            • mention that a job in your company is also an option, that you were happy with her, but imply that many changes are coming... The culture is something that not everybody likes and her new boss has a management style very different to yours.

            • stress that she should think it over and that you won't take offense if she rejects the offer.

            It's a lot about your tone.



            You shouldn't say too much but if she's smart she will understand.



            Referring to the previous answer: yes, you need to stay loyal to your company. But if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways. So it is in the interest of the company for you to let her know what she can expect.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 21 hours ago

























            answered yesterday









            385703

            7,22661441




            7,22661441







            • 8




              I agree with this. Seeing as you managed her as an intern, I don't think there would be much harm in meeting her for a coffee informally and discussing some of the wider issues that are going on in the company, so that she can be more aware and make an informed decision about whether or not to accept the offer.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday






            • 5




              I almost agree. Blind loyalty is no virtue. If the reality is that the intern would be managed by an abusive "nightmare" were she to accept, OP would push her towards that outcome if they withheld that information. Out of respect for their intern, OP should be open with any objective information that would influence her decision (that doesn't also break NDA or existing legal contracts).
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday







            • 25




              In particular, I think it is wrong to assume that "if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways." There are many reasons people stay in jobs they hate: the expenses involved in relocating, the uncertainty in finding a new job (especially early in one's career and without a recommendation from the former employer), their financial dependence on their continued employment, and even outright blackmail on the part of an abusive boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 2




              Good point Alex. I'd add to this advice to make it very clear that she's getting a good recommendation from the OP no matter what she chooses to do.
              – George M
              yesterday






            • 4




              Mentioning that a meeting invitation is "to talk about her career" is not likely to dispel fears of sexual harassment. On the contrary, it could be a red flag.
              – phoog
              15 hours ago












            • 8




              I agree with this. Seeing as you managed her as an intern, I don't think there would be much harm in meeting her for a coffee informally and discussing some of the wider issues that are going on in the company, so that she can be more aware and make an informed decision about whether or not to accept the offer.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday






            • 5




              I almost agree. Blind loyalty is no virtue. If the reality is that the intern would be managed by an abusive "nightmare" were she to accept, OP would push her towards that outcome if they withheld that information. Out of respect for their intern, OP should be open with any objective information that would influence her decision (that doesn't also break NDA or existing legal contracts).
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday







            • 25




              In particular, I think it is wrong to assume that "if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways." There are many reasons people stay in jobs they hate: the expenses involved in relocating, the uncertainty in finding a new job (especially early in one's career and without a recommendation from the former employer), their financial dependence on their continued employment, and even outright blackmail on the part of an abusive boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 2




              Good point Alex. I'd add to this advice to make it very clear that she's getting a good recommendation from the OP no matter what she chooses to do.
              – George M
              yesterday






            • 4




              Mentioning that a meeting invitation is "to talk about her career" is not likely to dispel fears of sexual harassment. On the contrary, it could be a red flag.
              – phoog
              15 hours ago







            8




            8




            I agree with this. Seeing as you managed her as an intern, I don't think there would be much harm in meeting her for a coffee informally and discussing some of the wider issues that are going on in the company, so that she can be more aware and make an informed decision about whether or not to accept the offer.
            – Time4Tea
            yesterday




            I agree with this. Seeing as you managed her as an intern, I don't think there would be much harm in meeting her for a coffee informally and discussing some of the wider issues that are going on in the company, so that she can be more aware and make an informed decision about whether or not to accept the offer.
            – Time4Tea
            yesterday




            5




            5




            I almost agree. Blind loyalty is no virtue. If the reality is that the intern would be managed by an abusive "nightmare" were she to accept, OP would push her towards that outcome if they withheld that information. Out of respect for their intern, OP should be open with any objective information that would influence her decision (that doesn't also break NDA or existing legal contracts).
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday





            I almost agree. Blind loyalty is no virtue. If the reality is that the intern would be managed by an abusive "nightmare" were she to accept, OP would push her towards that outcome if they withheld that information. Out of respect for their intern, OP should be open with any objective information that would influence her decision (that doesn't also break NDA or existing legal contracts).
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday





            25




            25




            In particular, I think it is wrong to assume that "if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways." There are many reasons people stay in jobs they hate: the expenses involved in relocating, the uncertainty in finding a new job (especially early in one's career and without a recommendation from the former employer), their financial dependence on their continued employment, and even outright blackmail on the part of an abusive boss.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday




            In particular, I think it is wrong to assume that "if the company is really so bad, the woman would quit quickly anyways." There are many reasons people stay in jobs they hate: the expenses involved in relocating, the uncertainty in finding a new job (especially early in one's career and without a recommendation from the former employer), their financial dependence on their continued employment, and even outright blackmail on the part of an abusive boss.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday




            2




            2




            Good point Alex. I'd add to this advice to make it very clear that she's getting a good recommendation from the OP no matter what she chooses to do.
            – George M
            yesterday




            Good point Alex. I'd add to this advice to make it very clear that she's getting a good recommendation from the OP no matter what she chooses to do.
            – George M
            yesterday




            4




            4




            Mentioning that a meeting invitation is "to talk about her career" is not likely to dispel fears of sexual harassment. On the contrary, it could be a red flag.
            – phoog
            15 hours ago




            Mentioning that a meeting invitation is "to talk about her career" is not likely to dispel fears of sexual harassment. On the contrary, it could be a red flag.
            – phoog
            15 hours ago












            up vote
            52
            down vote













            Sounds to me like you don't owe this company any particular allegience -- the key to being ethical with this is separate your business responsibilities from your personal obligation not to harm this person.



            Send the intern the offer from your corporate email with no comment on its desirability one way or the other.



            Then phone the intern/meet in person on your own time and give her your thoughts on the company as an impartial human being.



            She is then free to make up her own mind about what to do.






            share|improve this answer
















            • 5




              i don't think the OP can be an "impartial human being". this is really about the relative value of loyalty to evidently a bad employer (who is still paying the OP's paycheck and deserves some measure of consideration for that) and the sense of responsibility to not harm this potential employee. this is a sorta sticky wicket.
              – robert bristow-johnson
              yesterday










            • The problem with this is her position at the company requires her to convince this qualified candidate to work for them. To run contrary to that on her "personal time" is problematic ethically and perhaps even legally. Bad employer or not, to actively sabotage their hiring of a future employee is a bad idea. Be honest about work conditions, but do not spin it in a way that clearly communicates "you should not work here." If she doesn't feel comfortable making the offer, she should get someone else to do it.
              – BlackThorn
              14 hours ago







            • 1




              @BlackThorn OP has the responsibility to help hire a good fit for the position. This usually doesn't include hiring someone who's going to hate the job and leave ASAP. Someone who reports to the CEO should have a lot of flexibility.
              – David Thornley
              12 hours ago














            up vote
            52
            down vote













            Sounds to me like you don't owe this company any particular allegience -- the key to being ethical with this is separate your business responsibilities from your personal obligation not to harm this person.



            Send the intern the offer from your corporate email with no comment on its desirability one way or the other.



            Then phone the intern/meet in person on your own time and give her your thoughts on the company as an impartial human being.



            She is then free to make up her own mind about what to do.






            share|improve this answer
















            • 5




              i don't think the OP can be an "impartial human being". this is really about the relative value of loyalty to evidently a bad employer (who is still paying the OP's paycheck and deserves some measure of consideration for that) and the sense of responsibility to not harm this potential employee. this is a sorta sticky wicket.
              – robert bristow-johnson
              yesterday










            • The problem with this is her position at the company requires her to convince this qualified candidate to work for them. To run contrary to that on her "personal time" is problematic ethically and perhaps even legally. Bad employer or not, to actively sabotage their hiring of a future employee is a bad idea. Be honest about work conditions, but do not spin it in a way that clearly communicates "you should not work here." If she doesn't feel comfortable making the offer, she should get someone else to do it.
              – BlackThorn
              14 hours ago







            • 1




              @BlackThorn OP has the responsibility to help hire a good fit for the position. This usually doesn't include hiring someone who's going to hate the job and leave ASAP. Someone who reports to the CEO should have a lot of flexibility.
              – David Thornley
              12 hours ago












            up vote
            52
            down vote










            up vote
            52
            down vote









            Sounds to me like you don't owe this company any particular allegience -- the key to being ethical with this is separate your business responsibilities from your personal obligation not to harm this person.



            Send the intern the offer from your corporate email with no comment on its desirability one way or the other.



            Then phone the intern/meet in person on your own time and give her your thoughts on the company as an impartial human being.



            She is then free to make up her own mind about what to do.






            share|improve this answer












            Sounds to me like you don't owe this company any particular allegience -- the key to being ethical with this is separate your business responsibilities from your personal obligation not to harm this person.



            Send the intern the offer from your corporate email with no comment on its desirability one way or the other.



            Then phone the intern/meet in person on your own time and give her your thoughts on the company as an impartial human being.



            She is then free to make up her own mind about what to do.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            jkf

            67838




            67838







            • 5




              i don't think the OP can be an "impartial human being". this is really about the relative value of loyalty to evidently a bad employer (who is still paying the OP's paycheck and deserves some measure of consideration for that) and the sense of responsibility to not harm this potential employee. this is a sorta sticky wicket.
              – robert bristow-johnson
              yesterday










            • The problem with this is her position at the company requires her to convince this qualified candidate to work for them. To run contrary to that on her "personal time" is problematic ethically and perhaps even legally. Bad employer or not, to actively sabotage their hiring of a future employee is a bad idea. Be honest about work conditions, but do not spin it in a way that clearly communicates "you should not work here." If she doesn't feel comfortable making the offer, she should get someone else to do it.
              – BlackThorn
              14 hours ago







            • 1




              @BlackThorn OP has the responsibility to help hire a good fit for the position. This usually doesn't include hiring someone who's going to hate the job and leave ASAP. Someone who reports to the CEO should have a lot of flexibility.
              – David Thornley
              12 hours ago












            • 5




              i don't think the OP can be an "impartial human being". this is really about the relative value of loyalty to evidently a bad employer (who is still paying the OP's paycheck and deserves some measure of consideration for that) and the sense of responsibility to not harm this potential employee. this is a sorta sticky wicket.
              – robert bristow-johnson
              yesterday










            • The problem with this is her position at the company requires her to convince this qualified candidate to work for them. To run contrary to that on her "personal time" is problematic ethically and perhaps even legally. Bad employer or not, to actively sabotage their hiring of a future employee is a bad idea. Be honest about work conditions, but do not spin it in a way that clearly communicates "you should not work here." If she doesn't feel comfortable making the offer, she should get someone else to do it.
              – BlackThorn
              14 hours ago







            • 1




              @BlackThorn OP has the responsibility to help hire a good fit for the position. This usually doesn't include hiring someone who's going to hate the job and leave ASAP. Someone who reports to the CEO should have a lot of flexibility.
              – David Thornley
              12 hours ago







            5




            5




            i don't think the OP can be an "impartial human being". this is really about the relative value of loyalty to evidently a bad employer (who is still paying the OP's paycheck and deserves some measure of consideration for that) and the sense of responsibility to not harm this potential employee. this is a sorta sticky wicket.
            – robert bristow-johnson
            yesterday




            i don't think the OP can be an "impartial human being". this is really about the relative value of loyalty to evidently a bad employer (who is still paying the OP's paycheck and deserves some measure of consideration for that) and the sense of responsibility to not harm this potential employee. this is a sorta sticky wicket.
            – robert bristow-johnson
            yesterday












            The problem with this is her position at the company requires her to convince this qualified candidate to work for them. To run contrary to that on her "personal time" is problematic ethically and perhaps even legally. Bad employer or not, to actively sabotage their hiring of a future employee is a bad idea. Be honest about work conditions, but do not spin it in a way that clearly communicates "you should not work here." If she doesn't feel comfortable making the offer, she should get someone else to do it.
            – BlackThorn
            14 hours ago





            The problem with this is her position at the company requires her to convince this qualified candidate to work for them. To run contrary to that on her "personal time" is problematic ethically and perhaps even legally. Bad employer or not, to actively sabotage their hiring of a future employee is a bad idea. Be honest about work conditions, but do not spin it in a way that clearly communicates "you should not work here." If she doesn't feel comfortable making the offer, she should get someone else to do it.
            – BlackThorn
            14 hours ago





            1




            1




            @BlackThorn OP has the responsibility to help hire a good fit for the position. This usually doesn't include hiring someone who's going to hate the job and leave ASAP. Someone who reports to the CEO should have a lot of flexibility.
            – David Thornley
            12 hours ago




            @BlackThorn OP has the responsibility to help hire a good fit for the position. This usually doesn't include hiring someone who's going to hate the job and leave ASAP. Someone who reports to the CEO should have a lot of flexibility.
            – David Thornley
            12 hours ago










            up vote
            44
            down vote














            I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to
            decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I
            should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?




            Your boss told you to make the offer, and you acknowledge that she deserves the offer. Thus, you have to do it.



            If she asks you about the offer or company, you can carefully disclose some of your feelings while still making it clear that this is solely her decision to make. And you can offer to be a great reference for her if this offer isn't what she is looking for.



            Remember, she may not share your feelings about the company and manager. And while it's not what you want, it may still be what she wants.






            share|improve this answer
















            • 9




              +1 - fulfill your duties to your employer by extending the offer; fulfill your moral obligations to your intern by warning her about a nightmare boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 3




              +1 that she might decide it's a good fit for her, so let her decide for herself. And who knows, the company might not go under. She could miss a great opportunity by not taking the offer. Not saying this is the case, but it's worth letting her decide for herself.
              – bob
              yesterday







            • 1




              Yep, important thing here is that she has the information to make an informed decision. Minor nitpick, "if she asks". Personally I would feel it my responsibility to share. She doesn't know what you know and may not feel the need to ask/be skeptical.
              – aw04
              16 hours ago














            up vote
            44
            down vote














            I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to
            decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I
            should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?




            Your boss told you to make the offer, and you acknowledge that she deserves the offer. Thus, you have to do it.



            If she asks you about the offer or company, you can carefully disclose some of your feelings while still making it clear that this is solely her decision to make. And you can offer to be a great reference for her if this offer isn't what she is looking for.



            Remember, she may not share your feelings about the company and manager. And while it's not what you want, it may still be what she wants.






            share|improve this answer
















            • 9




              +1 - fulfill your duties to your employer by extending the offer; fulfill your moral obligations to your intern by warning her about a nightmare boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 3




              +1 that she might decide it's a good fit for her, so let her decide for herself. And who knows, the company might not go under. She could miss a great opportunity by not taking the offer. Not saying this is the case, but it's worth letting her decide for herself.
              – bob
              yesterday







            • 1




              Yep, important thing here is that she has the information to make an informed decision. Minor nitpick, "if she asks". Personally I would feel it my responsibility to share. She doesn't know what you know and may not feel the need to ask/be skeptical.
              – aw04
              16 hours ago












            up vote
            44
            down vote










            up vote
            44
            down vote










            I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to
            decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I
            should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?




            Your boss told you to make the offer, and you acknowledge that she deserves the offer. Thus, you have to do it.



            If she asks you about the offer or company, you can carefully disclose some of your feelings while still making it clear that this is solely her decision to make. And you can offer to be a great reference for her if this offer isn't what she is looking for.



            Remember, she may not share your feelings about the company and manager. And while it's not what you want, it may still be what she wants.






            share|improve this answer













            I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to
            decline it. Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I
            should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this?




            Your boss told you to make the offer, and you acknowledge that she deserves the offer. Thus, you have to do it.



            If she asks you about the offer or company, you can carefully disclose some of your feelings while still making it clear that this is solely her decision to make. And you can offer to be a great reference for her if this offer isn't what she is looking for.



            Remember, she may not share your feelings about the company and manager. And while it's not what you want, it may still be what she wants.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            Joe Strazzere

            236k115693985




            236k115693985







            • 9




              +1 - fulfill your duties to your employer by extending the offer; fulfill your moral obligations to your intern by warning her about a nightmare boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 3




              +1 that she might decide it's a good fit for her, so let her decide for herself. And who knows, the company might not go under. She could miss a great opportunity by not taking the offer. Not saying this is the case, but it's worth letting her decide for herself.
              – bob
              yesterday







            • 1




              Yep, important thing here is that she has the information to make an informed decision. Minor nitpick, "if she asks". Personally I would feel it my responsibility to share. She doesn't know what you know and may not feel the need to ask/be skeptical.
              – aw04
              16 hours ago












            • 9




              +1 - fulfill your duties to your employer by extending the offer; fulfill your moral obligations to your intern by warning her about a nightmare boss.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday






            • 3




              +1 that she might decide it's a good fit for her, so let her decide for herself. And who knows, the company might not go under. She could miss a great opportunity by not taking the offer. Not saying this is the case, but it's worth letting her decide for herself.
              – bob
              yesterday







            • 1




              Yep, important thing here is that she has the information to make an informed decision. Minor nitpick, "if she asks". Personally I would feel it my responsibility to share. She doesn't know what you know and may not feel the need to ask/be skeptical.
              – aw04
              16 hours ago







            9




            9




            +1 - fulfill your duties to your employer by extending the offer; fulfill your moral obligations to your intern by warning her about a nightmare boss.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday




            +1 - fulfill your duties to your employer by extending the offer; fulfill your moral obligations to your intern by warning her about a nightmare boss.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday




            3




            3




            +1 that she might decide it's a good fit for her, so let her decide for herself. And who knows, the company might not go under. She could miss a great opportunity by not taking the offer. Not saying this is the case, but it's worth letting her decide for herself.
            – bob
            yesterday





            +1 that she might decide it's a good fit for her, so let her decide for herself. And who knows, the company might not go under. She could miss a great opportunity by not taking the offer. Not saying this is the case, but it's worth letting her decide for herself.
            – bob
            yesterday





            1




            1




            Yep, important thing here is that she has the information to make an informed decision. Minor nitpick, "if she asks". Personally I would feel it my responsibility to share. She doesn't know what you know and may not feel the need to ask/be skeptical.
            – aw04
            16 hours ago




            Yep, important thing here is that she has the information to make an informed decision. Minor nitpick, "if she asks". Personally I would feel it my responsibility to share. She doesn't know what you know and may not feel the need to ask/be skeptical.
            – aw04
            16 hours ago










            up vote
            23
            down vote













            Advice could be problematic; informed consent is not. Present her with the offer, as well as the relevant information that she needs to make an informed decision. The offer is not only for a position with a particular compensation package, it is for an employment relationship with the company. Like any relationship, there are not only benefits, but liabilities and responsibilities. She needs to be made aware of the reasons that underlie your desire to recommend against taking the position, and then leave her to make her own decision. As part of this, highlight things that she may otherwise overlook, such as the fact that in her role as an intern, she has been insulated from some of the less palatable aspects of working there, as well as the fact that her work experience and her exemplary performance would qualify her to work at any number of other employers, and that it’s always wise to assess multiple offers rather than accepting the first opportunity that presents itself. Also stress that you’d be happy to serve as a reference not only for this role, but for any role outside of the company.



            Once you have laid all of your cards on the table, the decision to accept or reject the offer will truly be her decision, which she will be able to make with eyes wide open. She may choose to take the job and regret it. But if she does, it will be her choice and her learning experience. Unless you give her the relevant information, you’re depriving her of that opportunity to decide for herself. I appreciate your desire to go to bat for her. You just need to do so in a way that is equitable for all parties concerned. As long as you stick to the facts, you should be fine.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.













            • 7




              +1. I think the key thing is to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. It's not in the interest of the company either, if she joins and then quits after 2 months, because she didn't know what she was getting herself into.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday










            • +1. But people give positive "you should come here" style advice all the time. I don't think it's out of line to give advice that would save someone from months or years of abuse from a "nightmare" manager.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday










            • @AlexReinking, there's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years if it isn't mutually beneficial. if the person in question is a third party, then I agree, giving advice is fine. However, as a representative of the company, you have an obligation to represent the interests of the company. Giving someone the information that they need to make a decision for themselves does a good job of balancing those interests. If someone was moving across the country for the job, I would agree that taking a more proactively cautionary tone would be advisable.
              – S. Hooley
              yesterday










            • "There's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years" except for an abusive boss who might threaten to blacklist them should they leave, the great expenses (both social and financial) involved in relocating, the difficulty in finding a new job (depending on the industry), etc. The only obligations to one's employer are those drawn out in contract, typically in the US, that's just the labor they were hired to do.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday














            up vote
            23
            down vote













            Advice could be problematic; informed consent is not. Present her with the offer, as well as the relevant information that she needs to make an informed decision. The offer is not only for a position with a particular compensation package, it is for an employment relationship with the company. Like any relationship, there are not only benefits, but liabilities and responsibilities. She needs to be made aware of the reasons that underlie your desire to recommend against taking the position, and then leave her to make her own decision. As part of this, highlight things that she may otherwise overlook, such as the fact that in her role as an intern, she has been insulated from some of the less palatable aspects of working there, as well as the fact that her work experience and her exemplary performance would qualify her to work at any number of other employers, and that it’s always wise to assess multiple offers rather than accepting the first opportunity that presents itself. Also stress that you’d be happy to serve as a reference not only for this role, but for any role outside of the company.



            Once you have laid all of your cards on the table, the decision to accept or reject the offer will truly be her decision, which she will be able to make with eyes wide open. She may choose to take the job and regret it. But if she does, it will be her choice and her learning experience. Unless you give her the relevant information, you’re depriving her of that opportunity to decide for herself. I appreciate your desire to go to bat for her. You just need to do so in a way that is equitable for all parties concerned. As long as you stick to the facts, you should be fine.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.













            • 7




              +1. I think the key thing is to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. It's not in the interest of the company either, if she joins and then quits after 2 months, because she didn't know what she was getting herself into.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday










            • +1. But people give positive "you should come here" style advice all the time. I don't think it's out of line to give advice that would save someone from months or years of abuse from a "nightmare" manager.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday










            • @AlexReinking, there's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years if it isn't mutually beneficial. if the person in question is a third party, then I agree, giving advice is fine. However, as a representative of the company, you have an obligation to represent the interests of the company. Giving someone the information that they need to make a decision for themselves does a good job of balancing those interests. If someone was moving across the country for the job, I would agree that taking a more proactively cautionary tone would be advisable.
              – S. Hooley
              yesterday










            • "There's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years" except for an abusive boss who might threaten to blacklist them should they leave, the great expenses (both social and financial) involved in relocating, the difficulty in finding a new job (depending on the industry), etc. The only obligations to one's employer are those drawn out in contract, typically in the US, that's just the labor they were hired to do.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday












            up vote
            23
            down vote










            up vote
            23
            down vote









            Advice could be problematic; informed consent is not. Present her with the offer, as well as the relevant information that she needs to make an informed decision. The offer is not only for a position with a particular compensation package, it is for an employment relationship with the company. Like any relationship, there are not only benefits, but liabilities and responsibilities. She needs to be made aware of the reasons that underlie your desire to recommend against taking the position, and then leave her to make her own decision. As part of this, highlight things that she may otherwise overlook, such as the fact that in her role as an intern, she has been insulated from some of the less palatable aspects of working there, as well as the fact that her work experience and her exemplary performance would qualify her to work at any number of other employers, and that it’s always wise to assess multiple offers rather than accepting the first opportunity that presents itself. Also stress that you’d be happy to serve as a reference not only for this role, but for any role outside of the company.



            Once you have laid all of your cards on the table, the decision to accept or reject the offer will truly be her decision, which she will be able to make with eyes wide open. She may choose to take the job and regret it. But if she does, it will be her choice and her learning experience. Unless you give her the relevant information, you’re depriving her of that opportunity to decide for herself. I appreciate your desire to go to bat for her. You just need to do so in a way that is equitable for all parties concerned. As long as you stick to the facts, you should be fine.






            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            Advice could be problematic; informed consent is not. Present her with the offer, as well as the relevant information that she needs to make an informed decision. The offer is not only for a position with a particular compensation package, it is for an employment relationship with the company. Like any relationship, there are not only benefits, but liabilities and responsibilities. She needs to be made aware of the reasons that underlie your desire to recommend against taking the position, and then leave her to make her own decision. As part of this, highlight things that she may otherwise overlook, such as the fact that in her role as an intern, she has been insulated from some of the less palatable aspects of working there, as well as the fact that her work experience and her exemplary performance would qualify her to work at any number of other employers, and that it’s always wise to assess multiple offers rather than accepting the first opportunity that presents itself. Also stress that you’d be happy to serve as a reference not only for this role, but for any role outside of the company.



            Once you have laid all of your cards on the table, the decision to accept or reject the offer will truly be her decision, which she will be able to make with eyes wide open. She may choose to take the job and regret it. But if she does, it will be her choice and her learning experience. Unless you give her the relevant information, you’re depriving her of that opportunity to decide for herself. I appreciate your desire to go to bat for her. You just need to do so in a way that is equitable for all parties concerned. As long as you stick to the facts, you should be fine.







            share|improve this answer








            New contributor




            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer






            New contributor




            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered yesterday









            S. Hooley

            33914




            33914




            New contributor




            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





            New contributor





            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            S. Hooley is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.







            • 7




              +1. I think the key thing is to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. It's not in the interest of the company either, if she joins and then quits after 2 months, because she didn't know what she was getting herself into.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday










            • +1. But people give positive "you should come here" style advice all the time. I don't think it's out of line to give advice that would save someone from months or years of abuse from a "nightmare" manager.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday










            • @AlexReinking, there's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years if it isn't mutually beneficial. if the person in question is a third party, then I agree, giving advice is fine. However, as a representative of the company, you have an obligation to represent the interests of the company. Giving someone the information that they need to make a decision for themselves does a good job of balancing those interests. If someone was moving across the country for the job, I would agree that taking a more proactively cautionary tone would be advisable.
              – S. Hooley
              yesterday










            • "There's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years" except for an abusive boss who might threaten to blacklist them should they leave, the great expenses (both social and financial) involved in relocating, the difficulty in finding a new job (depending on the industry), etc. The only obligations to one's employer are those drawn out in contract, typically in the US, that's just the labor they were hired to do.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday












            • 7




              +1. I think the key thing is to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. It's not in the interest of the company either, if she joins and then quits after 2 months, because she didn't know what she was getting herself into.
              – Time4Tea
              yesterday










            • +1. But people give positive "you should come here" style advice all the time. I don't think it's out of line to give advice that would save someone from months or years of abuse from a "nightmare" manager.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday










            • @AlexReinking, there's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years if it isn't mutually beneficial. if the person in question is a third party, then I agree, giving advice is fine. However, as a representative of the company, you have an obligation to represent the interests of the company. Giving someone the information that they need to make a decision for themselves does a good job of balancing those interests. If someone was moving across the country for the job, I would agree that taking a more proactively cautionary tone would be advisable.
              – S. Hooley
              yesterday










            • "There's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years" except for an abusive boss who might threaten to blacklist them should they leave, the great expenses (both social and financial) involved in relocating, the difficulty in finding a new job (depending on the industry), etc. The only obligations to one's employer are those drawn out in contract, typically in the US, that's just the labor they were hired to do.
              – Alex Reinking
              yesterday







            7




            7




            +1. I think the key thing is to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. It's not in the interest of the company either, if she joins and then quits after 2 months, because she didn't know what she was getting herself into.
            – Time4Tea
            yesterday




            +1. I think the key thing is to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. It's not in the interest of the company either, if she joins and then quits after 2 months, because she didn't know what she was getting herself into.
            – Time4Tea
            yesterday












            +1. But people give positive "you should come here" style advice all the time. I don't think it's out of line to give advice that would save someone from months or years of abuse from a "nightmare" manager.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday




            +1. But people give positive "you should come here" style advice all the time. I don't think it's out of line to give advice that would save someone from months or years of abuse from a "nightmare" manager.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday












            @AlexReinking, there's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years if it isn't mutually beneficial. if the person in question is a third party, then I agree, giving advice is fine. However, as a representative of the company, you have an obligation to represent the interests of the company. Giving someone the information that they need to make a decision for themselves does a good job of balancing those interests. If someone was moving across the country for the job, I would agree that taking a more proactively cautionary tone would be advisable.
            – S. Hooley
            yesterday




            @AlexReinking, there's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years if it isn't mutually beneficial. if the person in question is a third party, then I agree, giving advice is fine. However, as a representative of the company, you have an obligation to represent the interests of the company. Giving someone the information that they need to make a decision for themselves does a good job of balancing those interests. If someone was moving across the country for the job, I would agree that taking a more proactively cautionary tone would be advisable.
            – S. Hooley
            yesterday












            "There's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years" except for an abusive boss who might threaten to blacklist them should they leave, the great expenses (both social and financial) involved in relocating, the difficulty in finding a new job (depending on the industry), etc. The only obligations to one's employer are those drawn out in contract, typically in the US, that's just the labor they were hired to do.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday




            "There's nothing obligating this person from staying with this company for years" except for an abusive boss who might threaten to blacklist them should they leave, the great expenses (both social and financial) involved in relocating, the difficulty in finding a new job (depending on the industry), etc. The only obligations to one's employer are those drawn out in contract, typically in the US, that's just the labor they were hired to do.
            – Alex Reinking
            yesterday










            up vote
            21
            down vote













            One major reason not to do this is: what if she accepts the offer, despite your warnings?



            You are now in a very awkward position: your junior is now in a position to blackmail you. This is especially important as you are considering jumping ship: your reputation capital gained at your current firm is at its most valuable.



            Regardless of whether the moral thing to do is telling the excellent former intern that your company is toxic and destined for the corporate dustbin, you are now putting your own career in jeopardy.



            A missed opportunity is a relatively minor thing early on in your career. Later on, being seen to act against your employer's interests and in a matter that is entirely work related... well, that's a line on your CV that you don't want.



            Attorneys are qualified to give moral, legal and financial advice. Those are good headings under which to analyse this decision.



            Morally - telling her the lay of the land is absolutely the correct thing to do. (Companies' personalities are a legal fiction and you owe them no moral loyalty - pay them no heed when considering right and wrong.)



            Legally - regardless of whether or not you are doing the company legal damage (and you probably are - tortious interference is the first thing that comes to mind), if your current company were to sue you on any grounds, it wouldn't be hard for a good attorney to find some pretext to introduce this situation into evidence to (correctly) portray you as disloyal. (This is particularly bad if you are in a jurisdiction where a jury is the trier of fact in civil cases.) So, while nothing will probably come of this, legally, you're doing yourself no favours at all by telling the intern how things are.



            Financially, there's no upside. Only potential downside. Grim as it is, your intern is a nobody and gaining her favour and gratitude gives you nothing tangible. (The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven don't figure on any balance sheets.)



            So, no attorney could tell you it was in your best interest to do this. Probably, you'd get away with it, and nothing would happen, other than you would get a warm glow from having gained the gratitude of the former intern. However, if this whole thing went wrong, it would probably go wrong very badly for you.



            To repeat: only downside.



            It's your life you're talking about, more than hers, and prudence and discretion should be your watchwords.



            By telling the intern how things are you aren't just being honest: you're asking her for her confidence, and that is by no means a given. A particularly mercenary and ambitious personality might even smell an opportunity in your indiscretion.



            I can completely understand how someone might nevertheless want to go ahead and warn the intern despite this advice; however, doing so is not the sensible and considered thing to do.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.













            • 8




              There is some value to building relationships in an industry. And also more generally if you behave like you describe all of the time, you'll develop a reputation as a cold, calculating sociopath.
              – Brian Gordon
              15 hours ago











            • @BrianGordon I'm not advocating any general approach to life so I'm not really sure what you're on about: my answer is situation-specific and I'm only answering the question asked. There are real risks for OP in telling the intern that they should be aware of when making this decision. Do you really think OP is better off not considering them?
              – tmgr
              15 hours ago






            • 1




              Agree it's always good to consider the worst case scenario. I do think, however, it's not such a binary thing. There's a middle ground here where you can give the intern useful information to help make her decision without necessarily advising her to decline the offer or doing anything to lead to some of the more extreme outcomes.
              – aw04
              10 hours ago






            • 1




              @aw04 I agree with you! There are surely ways one could go about this. However, the question asked is: Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this? And that's what I've attempted to answer, without telling OP how to go about telling the intern or how much to tell her... because that's not what the question was. (Having said that, deliberately thwarting the company in its attempt to hire the intern is reasonable grounds for dismissal, and howsoever OP does it only really relates to their chances of getting caught.)
              – tmgr
              6 hours ago














            up vote
            21
            down vote













            One major reason not to do this is: what if she accepts the offer, despite your warnings?



            You are now in a very awkward position: your junior is now in a position to blackmail you. This is especially important as you are considering jumping ship: your reputation capital gained at your current firm is at its most valuable.



            Regardless of whether the moral thing to do is telling the excellent former intern that your company is toxic and destined for the corporate dustbin, you are now putting your own career in jeopardy.



            A missed opportunity is a relatively minor thing early on in your career. Later on, being seen to act against your employer's interests and in a matter that is entirely work related... well, that's a line on your CV that you don't want.



            Attorneys are qualified to give moral, legal and financial advice. Those are good headings under which to analyse this decision.



            Morally - telling her the lay of the land is absolutely the correct thing to do. (Companies' personalities are a legal fiction and you owe them no moral loyalty - pay them no heed when considering right and wrong.)



            Legally - regardless of whether or not you are doing the company legal damage (and you probably are - tortious interference is the first thing that comes to mind), if your current company were to sue you on any grounds, it wouldn't be hard for a good attorney to find some pretext to introduce this situation into evidence to (correctly) portray you as disloyal. (This is particularly bad if you are in a jurisdiction where a jury is the trier of fact in civil cases.) So, while nothing will probably come of this, legally, you're doing yourself no favours at all by telling the intern how things are.



            Financially, there's no upside. Only potential downside. Grim as it is, your intern is a nobody and gaining her favour and gratitude gives you nothing tangible. (The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven don't figure on any balance sheets.)



            So, no attorney could tell you it was in your best interest to do this. Probably, you'd get away with it, and nothing would happen, other than you would get a warm glow from having gained the gratitude of the former intern. However, if this whole thing went wrong, it would probably go wrong very badly for you.



            To repeat: only downside.



            It's your life you're talking about, more than hers, and prudence and discretion should be your watchwords.



            By telling the intern how things are you aren't just being honest: you're asking her for her confidence, and that is by no means a given. A particularly mercenary and ambitious personality might even smell an opportunity in your indiscretion.



            I can completely understand how someone might nevertheless want to go ahead and warn the intern despite this advice; however, doing so is not the sensible and considered thing to do.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.













            • 8




              There is some value to building relationships in an industry. And also more generally if you behave like you describe all of the time, you'll develop a reputation as a cold, calculating sociopath.
              – Brian Gordon
              15 hours ago











            • @BrianGordon I'm not advocating any general approach to life so I'm not really sure what you're on about: my answer is situation-specific and I'm only answering the question asked. There are real risks for OP in telling the intern that they should be aware of when making this decision. Do you really think OP is better off not considering them?
              – tmgr
              15 hours ago






            • 1




              Agree it's always good to consider the worst case scenario. I do think, however, it's not such a binary thing. There's a middle ground here where you can give the intern useful information to help make her decision without necessarily advising her to decline the offer or doing anything to lead to some of the more extreme outcomes.
              – aw04
              10 hours ago






            • 1




              @aw04 I agree with you! There are surely ways one could go about this. However, the question asked is: Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this? And that's what I've attempted to answer, without telling OP how to go about telling the intern or how much to tell her... because that's not what the question was. (Having said that, deliberately thwarting the company in its attempt to hire the intern is reasonable grounds for dismissal, and howsoever OP does it only really relates to their chances of getting caught.)
              – tmgr
              6 hours ago












            up vote
            21
            down vote










            up vote
            21
            down vote









            One major reason not to do this is: what if she accepts the offer, despite your warnings?



            You are now in a very awkward position: your junior is now in a position to blackmail you. This is especially important as you are considering jumping ship: your reputation capital gained at your current firm is at its most valuable.



            Regardless of whether the moral thing to do is telling the excellent former intern that your company is toxic and destined for the corporate dustbin, you are now putting your own career in jeopardy.



            A missed opportunity is a relatively minor thing early on in your career. Later on, being seen to act against your employer's interests and in a matter that is entirely work related... well, that's a line on your CV that you don't want.



            Attorneys are qualified to give moral, legal and financial advice. Those are good headings under which to analyse this decision.



            Morally - telling her the lay of the land is absolutely the correct thing to do. (Companies' personalities are a legal fiction and you owe them no moral loyalty - pay them no heed when considering right and wrong.)



            Legally - regardless of whether or not you are doing the company legal damage (and you probably are - tortious interference is the first thing that comes to mind), if your current company were to sue you on any grounds, it wouldn't be hard for a good attorney to find some pretext to introduce this situation into evidence to (correctly) portray you as disloyal. (This is particularly bad if you are in a jurisdiction where a jury is the trier of fact in civil cases.) So, while nothing will probably come of this, legally, you're doing yourself no favours at all by telling the intern how things are.



            Financially, there's no upside. Only potential downside. Grim as it is, your intern is a nobody and gaining her favour and gratitude gives you nothing tangible. (The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven don't figure on any balance sheets.)



            So, no attorney could tell you it was in your best interest to do this. Probably, you'd get away with it, and nothing would happen, other than you would get a warm glow from having gained the gratitude of the former intern. However, if this whole thing went wrong, it would probably go wrong very badly for you.



            To repeat: only downside.



            It's your life you're talking about, more than hers, and prudence and discretion should be your watchwords.



            By telling the intern how things are you aren't just being honest: you're asking her for her confidence, and that is by no means a given. A particularly mercenary and ambitious personality might even smell an opportunity in your indiscretion.



            I can completely understand how someone might nevertheless want to go ahead and warn the intern despite this advice; however, doing so is not the sensible and considered thing to do.






            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            One major reason not to do this is: what if she accepts the offer, despite your warnings?



            You are now in a very awkward position: your junior is now in a position to blackmail you. This is especially important as you are considering jumping ship: your reputation capital gained at your current firm is at its most valuable.



            Regardless of whether the moral thing to do is telling the excellent former intern that your company is toxic and destined for the corporate dustbin, you are now putting your own career in jeopardy.



            A missed opportunity is a relatively minor thing early on in your career. Later on, being seen to act against your employer's interests and in a matter that is entirely work related... well, that's a line on your CV that you don't want.



            Attorneys are qualified to give moral, legal and financial advice. Those are good headings under which to analyse this decision.



            Morally - telling her the lay of the land is absolutely the correct thing to do. (Companies' personalities are a legal fiction and you owe them no moral loyalty - pay them no heed when considering right and wrong.)



            Legally - regardless of whether or not you are doing the company legal damage (and you probably are - tortious interference is the first thing that comes to mind), if your current company were to sue you on any grounds, it wouldn't be hard for a good attorney to find some pretext to introduce this situation into evidence to (correctly) portray you as disloyal. (This is particularly bad if you are in a jurisdiction where a jury is the trier of fact in civil cases.) So, while nothing will probably come of this, legally, you're doing yourself no favours at all by telling the intern how things are.



            Financially, there's no upside. Only potential downside. Grim as it is, your intern is a nobody and gaining her favour and gratitude gives you nothing tangible. (The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven don't figure on any balance sheets.)



            So, no attorney could tell you it was in your best interest to do this. Probably, you'd get away with it, and nothing would happen, other than you would get a warm glow from having gained the gratitude of the former intern. However, if this whole thing went wrong, it would probably go wrong very badly for you.



            To repeat: only downside.



            It's your life you're talking about, more than hers, and prudence and discretion should be your watchwords.



            By telling the intern how things are you aren't just being honest: you're asking her for her confidence, and that is by no means a given. A particularly mercenary and ambitious personality might even smell an opportunity in your indiscretion.



            I can completely understand how someone might nevertheless want to go ahead and warn the intern despite this advice; however, doing so is not the sensible and considered thing to do.







            share|improve this answer










            New contributor




            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 17 hours ago





















            New contributor




            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.









            answered yesterday









            tmgr

            3416




            3416




            New contributor




            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.





            New contributor





            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.






            tmgr is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.







            • 8




              There is some value to building relationships in an industry. And also more generally if you behave like you describe all of the time, you'll develop a reputation as a cold, calculating sociopath.
              – Brian Gordon
              15 hours ago











            • @BrianGordon I'm not advocating any general approach to life so I'm not really sure what you're on about: my answer is situation-specific and I'm only answering the question asked. There are real risks for OP in telling the intern that they should be aware of when making this decision. Do you really think OP is better off not considering them?
              – tmgr
              15 hours ago






            • 1




              Agree it's always good to consider the worst case scenario. I do think, however, it's not such a binary thing. There's a middle ground here where you can give the intern useful information to help make her decision without necessarily advising her to decline the offer or doing anything to lead to some of the more extreme outcomes.
              – aw04
              10 hours ago






            • 1




              @aw04 I agree with you! There are surely ways one could go about this. However, the question asked is: Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this? And that's what I've attempted to answer, without telling OP how to go about telling the intern or how much to tell her... because that's not what the question was. (Having said that, deliberately thwarting the company in its attempt to hire the intern is reasonable grounds for dismissal, and howsoever OP does it only really relates to their chances of getting caught.)
              – tmgr
              6 hours ago












            • 8




              There is some value to building relationships in an industry. And also more generally if you behave like you describe all of the time, you'll develop a reputation as a cold, calculating sociopath.
              – Brian Gordon
              15 hours ago











            • @BrianGordon I'm not advocating any general approach to life so I'm not really sure what you're on about: my answer is situation-specific and I'm only answering the question asked. There are real risks for OP in telling the intern that they should be aware of when making this decision. Do you really think OP is better off not considering them?
              – tmgr
              15 hours ago






            • 1




              Agree it's always good to consider the worst case scenario. I do think, however, it's not such a binary thing. There's a middle ground here where you can give the intern useful information to help make her decision without necessarily advising her to decline the offer or doing anything to lead to some of the more extreme outcomes.
              – aw04
              10 hours ago






            • 1




              @aw04 I agree with you! There are surely ways one could go about this. However, the question asked is: Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this? And that's what I've attempted to answer, without telling OP how to go about telling the intern or how much to tell her... because that's not what the question was. (Having said that, deliberately thwarting the company in its attempt to hire the intern is reasonable grounds for dismissal, and howsoever OP does it only really relates to their chances of getting caught.)
              – tmgr
              6 hours ago







            8




            8




            There is some value to building relationships in an industry. And also more generally if you behave like you describe all of the time, you'll develop a reputation as a cold, calculating sociopath.
            – Brian Gordon
            15 hours ago





            There is some value to building relationships in an industry. And also more generally if you behave like you describe all of the time, you'll develop a reputation as a cold, calculating sociopath.
            – Brian Gordon
            15 hours ago













            @BrianGordon I'm not advocating any general approach to life so I'm not really sure what you're on about: my answer is situation-specific and I'm only answering the question asked. There are real risks for OP in telling the intern that they should be aware of when making this decision. Do you really think OP is better off not considering them?
            – tmgr
            15 hours ago




            @BrianGordon I'm not advocating any general approach to life so I'm not really sure what you're on about: my answer is situation-specific and I'm only answering the question asked. There are real risks for OP in telling the intern that they should be aware of when making this decision. Do you really think OP is better off not considering them?
            – tmgr
            15 hours ago




            1




            1




            Agree it's always good to consider the worst case scenario. I do think, however, it's not such a binary thing. There's a middle ground here where you can give the intern useful information to help make her decision without necessarily advising her to decline the offer or doing anything to lead to some of the more extreme outcomes.
            – aw04
            10 hours ago




            Agree it's always good to consider the worst case scenario. I do think, however, it's not such a binary thing. There's a middle ground here where you can give the intern useful information to help make her decision without necessarily advising her to decline the offer or doing anything to lead to some of the more extreme outcomes.
            – aw04
            10 hours ago




            1




            1




            @aw04 I agree with you! There are surely ways one could go about this. However, the question asked is: Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this? And that's what I've attempted to answer, without telling OP how to go about telling the intern or how much to tell her... because that's not what the question was. (Having said that, deliberately thwarting the company in its attempt to hire the intern is reasonable grounds for dismissal, and howsoever OP does it only really relates to their chances of getting caught.)
            – tmgr
            6 hours ago




            @aw04 I agree with you! There are surely ways one could go about this. However, the question asked is: Are there any ethical, legal, etc. implications that I should be aware of? Or any reason not to do this? And that's what I've attempted to answer, without telling OP how to go about telling the intern or how much to tell her... because that's not what the question was. (Having said that, deliberately thwarting the company in its attempt to hire the intern is reasonable grounds for dismissal, and howsoever OP does it only really relates to their chances of getting caught.)
            – tmgr
            6 hours ago










            up vote
            9
            down vote













            If this other Manager is as bad as you make them out to be, I recommend that you:



            1. Make sure she is aware that this other Manager is going to be managing her and that their style may be different to yours.

            2. Try to arrange for her to meet with this other Manager in person, before deciding whether to accept.

            If she meets with the other Manager, then it may help her to get a better feel for what they are like, and whether they are someone that she can work with. If it was me, I would definitely want to meet with a prospective new Manager first, to make sure the 'personality fit' is right, because the relationship you have with your direct Manager is so important.



            Otherwise, I agree with the other answers that recommend meeting her informally to discuss the situation. Don't advise her not to take it, but try to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. The decision has to be hers. Even if that other Manager is difficult to work with, she might decide it would be good to work there for 6 months to a year, just to get their name on her resume, which is fair enough.



            Helping her to make an informed decision is not, in my opinion, contrary to the interests of the company. It would not be in the interests of the company, if she leaves after 2 months because she didn't realize what she was getting herself into.






            share|improve this answer
















            • 6




              Having her meet with her potential manager is a great idea. I would expect this to be part of the process anyway. But if it's not, take it upon yourself to make it happen.
              – Joe Strazzere
              yesterday














            up vote
            9
            down vote













            If this other Manager is as bad as you make them out to be, I recommend that you:



            1. Make sure she is aware that this other Manager is going to be managing her and that their style may be different to yours.

            2. Try to arrange for her to meet with this other Manager in person, before deciding whether to accept.

            If she meets with the other Manager, then it may help her to get a better feel for what they are like, and whether they are someone that she can work with. If it was me, I would definitely want to meet with a prospective new Manager first, to make sure the 'personality fit' is right, because the relationship you have with your direct Manager is so important.



            Otherwise, I agree with the other answers that recommend meeting her informally to discuss the situation. Don't advise her not to take it, but try to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. The decision has to be hers. Even if that other Manager is difficult to work with, she might decide it would be good to work there for 6 months to a year, just to get their name on her resume, which is fair enough.



            Helping her to make an informed decision is not, in my opinion, contrary to the interests of the company. It would not be in the interests of the company, if she leaves after 2 months because she didn't realize what she was getting herself into.






            share|improve this answer
















            • 6




              Having her meet with her potential manager is a great idea. I would expect this to be part of the process anyway. But if it's not, take it upon yourself to make it happen.
              – Joe Strazzere
              yesterday












            up vote
            9
            down vote










            up vote
            9
            down vote









            If this other Manager is as bad as you make them out to be, I recommend that you:



            1. Make sure she is aware that this other Manager is going to be managing her and that their style may be different to yours.

            2. Try to arrange for her to meet with this other Manager in person, before deciding whether to accept.

            If she meets with the other Manager, then it may help her to get a better feel for what they are like, and whether they are someone that she can work with. If it was me, I would definitely want to meet with a prospective new Manager first, to make sure the 'personality fit' is right, because the relationship you have with your direct Manager is so important.



            Otherwise, I agree with the other answers that recommend meeting her informally to discuss the situation. Don't advise her not to take it, but try to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. The decision has to be hers. Even if that other Manager is difficult to work with, she might decide it would be good to work there for 6 months to a year, just to get their name on her resume, which is fair enough.



            Helping her to make an informed decision is not, in my opinion, contrary to the interests of the company. It would not be in the interests of the company, if she leaves after 2 months because she didn't realize what she was getting herself into.






            share|improve this answer












            If this other Manager is as bad as you make them out to be, I recommend that you:



            1. Make sure she is aware that this other Manager is going to be managing her and that their style may be different to yours.

            2. Try to arrange for her to meet with this other Manager in person, before deciding whether to accept.

            If she meets with the other Manager, then it may help her to get a better feel for what they are like, and whether they are someone that she can work with. If it was me, I would definitely want to meet with a prospective new Manager first, to make sure the 'personality fit' is right, because the relationship you have with your direct Manager is so important.



            Otherwise, I agree with the other answers that recommend meeting her informally to discuss the situation. Don't advise her not to take it, but try to make sure she has enough information to be able to make an informed decision. The decision has to be hers. Even if that other Manager is difficult to work with, she might decide it would be good to work there for 6 months to a year, just to get their name on her resume, which is fair enough.



            Helping her to make an informed decision is not, in my opinion, contrary to the interests of the company. It would not be in the interests of the company, if she leaves after 2 months because she didn't realize what she was getting herself into.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            Time4Tea

            2,75931025




            2,75931025







            • 6




              Having her meet with her potential manager is a great idea. I would expect this to be part of the process anyway. But if it's not, take it upon yourself to make it happen.
              – Joe Strazzere
              yesterday












            • 6




              Having her meet with her potential manager is a great idea. I would expect this to be part of the process anyway. But if it's not, take it upon yourself to make it happen.
              – Joe Strazzere
              yesterday







            6




            6




            Having her meet with her potential manager is a great idea. I would expect this to be part of the process anyway. But if it's not, take it upon yourself to make it happen.
            – Joe Strazzere
            yesterday




            Having her meet with her potential manager is a great idea. I would expect this to be part of the process anyway. But if it's not, take it upon yourself to make it happen.
            – Joe Strazzere
            yesterday










            up vote
            2
            down vote














            I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).




            Only you know the extent of this would-be manager's abusiveness, but given that you deliberately shielded your intern from him, my instincts suggest he is quite bad indeed.



            If giving her direct advice to reject the offer would spare her months or even years of abuse and would not constitute a worse roadblock in her career (perhaps offer her your recommendation to another job), then it is the company's problem that they keep so toxic a person in their employ. It might even save the company a lawsuit down the line, depending again on the manager's misbehavior.



            Do, then, what the other answers suggest: give her the offer as is required by your job duties, and then (on your own time) give her all the objective, legal-to-divulge information she would need to make an informed decision. In particular, it sounds like you will need to tell her about this manager since she doesn't have any information about him already.






            share|improve this answer
























              up vote
              2
              down vote














              I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).




              Only you know the extent of this would-be manager's abusiveness, but given that you deliberately shielded your intern from him, my instincts suggest he is quite bad indeed.



              If giving her direct advice to reject the offer would spare her months or even years of abuse and would not constitute a worse roadblock in her career (perhaps offer her your recommendation to another job), then it is the company's problem that they keep so toxic a person in their employ. It might even save the company a lawsuit down the line, depending again on the manager's misbehavior.



              Do, then, what the other answers suggest: give her the offer as is required by your job duties, and then (on your own time) give her all the objective, legal-to-divulge information she would need to make an informed decision. In particular, it sounds like you will need to tell her about this manager since she doesn't have any information about him already.






              share|improve this answer






















                up vote
                2
                down vote










                up vote
                2
                down vote










                I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).




                Only you know the extent of this would-be manager's abusiveness, but given that you deliberately shielded your intern from him, my instincts suggest he is quite bad indeed.



                If giving her direct advice to reject the offer would spare her months or even years of abuse and would not constitute a worse roadblock in her career (perhaps offer her your recommendation to another job), then it is the company's problem that they keep so toxic a person in their employ. It might even save the company a lawsuit down the line, depending again on the manager's misbehavior.



                Do, then, what the other answers suggest: give her the offer as is required by your job duties, and then (on your own time) give her all the objective, legal-to-divulge information she would need to make an informed decision. In particular, it sounds like you will need to tell her about this manager since she doesn't have any information about him already.






                share|improve this answer













                I'm personally in the midst of looking for other opportunities. And the person she would report to (even if I were to stay) is an absolute nightmare to work with (I was able to keep him at a distance during the internship).




                Only you know the extent of this would-be manager's abusiveness, but given that you deliberately shielded your intern from him, my instincts suggest he is quite bad indeed.



                If giving her direct advice to reject the offer would spare her months or even years of abuse and would not constitute a worse roadblock in her career (perhaps offer her your recommendation to another job), then it is the company's problem that they keep so toxic a person in their employ. It might even save the company a lawsuit down the line, depending again on the manager's misbehavior.



                Do, then, what the other answers suggest: give her the offer as is required by your job duties, and then (on your own time) give her all the objective, legal-to-divulge information she would need to make an informed decision. In particular, it sounds like you will need to tell her about this manager since she doesn't have any information about him already.







                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered yesterday









                Alex Reinking

                208210




                208210




















                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote













                    Your only responsibility is to make sure she gets enough information to make an informed decision.



                    We are talking here about a person who has already worked an internship at your company. She didn't work for Manager X but it's a 12-person company, I find it hard to believe that she knows nothing about him. At the maximum, try to broker a meeting between her and her prospective new manager prior to the offer.



                    You need to realize that



                    1. You may be burned out and being overly bitter. Apparently a bunch of other folks work at the company and haven't fled screaming. You are likely projecting your own dissatisfaction about random "inside baseball" decisions on a new grad that just wants some good experience coding and a good-looking resume line item of working for a startup. There is nothing "ethical" about spreading your negativity to someone else.


                    2. Anything beyond openly discussing with the team that you think the role might not be a good fit for her is direct sabotage of your company. You seem to feel that no one should come work there because it's so bad. You should be looking for other opportunities instead of sabotaging them. As a hiring manager, if I found someone on my team had told a candidate "don't come here this company is dysfunctional," they would immediately be fired for cause.






                    share|improve this answer
























                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote













                      Your only responsibility is to make sure she gets enough information to make an informed decision.



                      We are talking here about a person who has already worked an internship at your company. She didn't work for Manager X but it's a 12-person company, I find it hard to believe that she knows nothing about him. At the maximum, try to broker a meeting between her and her prospective new manager prior to the offer.



                      You need to realize that



                      1. You may be burned out and being overly bitter. Apparently a bunch of other folks work at the company and haven't fled screaming. You are likely projecting your own dissatisfaction about random "inside baseball" decisions on a new grad that just wants some good experience coding and a good-looking resume line item of working for a startup. There is nothing "ethical" about spreading your negativity to someone else.


                      2. Anything beyond openly discussing with the team that you think the role might not be a good fit for her is direct sabotage of your company. You seem to feel that no one should come work there because it's so bad. You should be looking for other opportunities instead of sabotaging them. As a hiring manager, if I found someone on my team had told a candidate "don't come here this company is dysfunctional," they would immediately be fired for cause.






                      share|improve this answer






















                        up vote
                        2
                        down vote










                        up vote
                        2
                        down vote









                        Your only responsibility is to make sure she gets enough information to make an informed decision.



                        We are talking here about a person who has already worked an internship at your company. She didn't work for Manager X but it's a 12-person company, I find it hard to believe that she knows nothing about him. At the maximum, try to broker a meeting between her and her prospective new manager prior to the offer.



                        You need to realize that



                        1. You may be burned out and being overly bitter. Apparently a bunch of other folks work at the company and haven't fled screaming. You are likely projecting your own dissatisfaction about random "inside baseball" decisions on a new grad that just wants some good experience coding and a good-looking resume line item of working for a startup. There is nothing "ethical" about spreading your negativity to someone else.


                        2. Anything beyond openly discussing with the team that you think the role might not be a good fit for her is direct sabotage of your company. You seem to feel that no one should come work there because it's so bad. You should be looking for other opportunities instead of sabotaging them. As a hiring manager, if I found someone on my team had told a candidate "don't come here this company is dysfunctional," they would immediately be fired for cause.






                        share|improve this answer












                        Your only responsibility is to make sure she gets enough information to make an informed decision.



                        We are talking here about a person who has already worked an internship at your company. She didn't work for Manager X but it's a 12-person company, I find it hard to believe that she knows nothing about him. At the maximum, try to broker a meeting between her and her prospective new manager prior to the offer.



                        You need to realize that



                        1. You may be burned out and being overly bitter. Apparently a bunch of other folks work at the company and haven't fled screaming. You are likely projecting your own dissatisfaction about random "inside baseball" decisions on a new grad that just wants some good experience coding and a good-looking resume line item of working for a startup. There is nothing "ethical" about spreading your negativity to someone else.


                        2. Anything beyond openly discussing with the team that you think the role might not be a good fit for her is direct sabotage of your company. You seem to feel that no one should come work there because it's so bad. You should be looking for other opportunities instead of sabotaging them. As a hiring manager, if I found someone on my team had told a candidate "don't come here this company is dysfunctional," they would immediately be fired for cause.







                        share|improve this answer












                        share|improve this answer



                        share|improve this answer










                        answered yesterday









                        mxyzplk

                        7,77622336




                        7,77622336




















                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote













                            You should not do this.



                            As long as you work for the company, your allegiance and responsibility is to the company and not a potential future employee. You are free to decide for yourself whether to stay or go, but you should not be trying to keep the intern from joining the company. From your own review, she is a potentially valuable employee for the company and you would be actively trying to harm the company.



                            While I can't speak to specific legal concerns, I would expect in any country that actively trying to damage the future of the company is a fire-able offense at a minimum.






                            share|improve this answer
















                            • 36




                              This answers assumes that you somehow have an allegiance with your company outside the specific work you are hired to do. I don't think this is generally true. Both the company and the employee have to ensure that they are a good fit, you are asking the OP to lie about the fact that the company wont be a good fit for her. Given that we aren't in a capitalistic regime where the sole obligation is to money I'd do the right thing and just be honest about pros and cons and let her decide with full information. This is not actively harming the company, the company is harming itself by being awful.
                              – Bakuriu
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              Is informing someone of all the pros and cons of a position REALLY against the companies interests, though? Doing so may prevent a situation where the person is hired on and leaves the company a week later, which would consume a lot of resources.
                              – CrazyPaste
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              If you haven't noticed, companies have near 0 allegiance to their employees. Granted, they expect 100% loyalty from their employees, but very, very few show it to their employees. It's hard to buy into that one-way street.
                              – FreeMan
                              yesterday






                            • 14




                              @cdkMoose Absolutely wrong. Your moral responsibility to be honest and treat people well always trumps loyalty to your employer. To do otherwise marks someone as a horrible human being.
                              – Gabe Sechan
                              yesterday






                            • 5




                              @mxyzplk Instead of taking the feedback and fixing the problem. OK.
                              – Konrad Rudolph
                              22 hours ago















                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote













                            You should not do this.



                            As long as you work for the company, your allegiance and responsibility is to the company and not a potential future employee. You are free to decide for yourself whether to stay or go, but you should not be trying to keep the intern from joining the company. From your own review, she is a potentially valuable employee for the company and you would be actively trying to harm the company.



                            While I can't speak to specific legal concerns, I would expect in any country that actively trying to damage the future of the company is a fire-able offense at a minimum.






                            share|improve this answer
















                            • 36




                              This answers assumes that you somehow have an allegiance with your company outside the specific work you are hired to do. I don't think this is generally true. Both the company and the employee have to ensure that they are a good fit, you are asking the OP to lie about the fact that the company wont be a good fit for her. Given that we aren't in a capitalistic regime where the sole obligation is to money I'd do the right thing and just be honest about pros and cons and let her decide with full information. This is not actively harming the company, the company is harming itself by being awful.
                              – Bakuriu
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              Is informing someone of all the pros and cons of a position REALLY against the companies interests, though? Doing so may prevent a situation where the person is hired on and leaves the company a week later, which would consume a lot of resources.
                              – CrazyPaste
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              If you haven't noticed, companies have near 0 allegiance to their employees. Granted, they expect 100% loyalty from their employees, but very, very few show it to their employees. It's hard to buy into that one-way street.
                              – FreeMan
                              yesterday






                            • 14




                              @cdkMoose Absolutely wrong. Your moral responsibility to be honest and treat people well always trumps loyalty to your employer. To do otherwise marks someone as a horrible human being.
                              – Gabe Sechan
                              yesterday






                            • 5




                              @mxyzplk Instead of taking the feedback and fixing the problem. OK.
                              – Konrad Rudolph
                              22 hours ago













                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            You should not do this.



                            As long as you work for the company, your allegiance and responsibility is to the company and not a potential future employee. You are free to decide for yourself whether to stay or go, but you should not be trying to keep the intern from joining the company. From your own review, she is a potentially valuable employee for the company and you would be actively trying to harm the company.



                            While I can't speak to specific legal concerns, I would expect in any country that actively trying to damage the future of the company is a fire-able offense at a minimum.






                            share|improve this answer












                            You should not do this.



                            As long as you work for the company, your allegiance and responsibility is to the company and not a potential future employee. You are free to decide for yourself whether to stay or go, but you should not be trying to keep the intern from joining the company. From your own review, she is a potentially valuable employee for the company and you would be actively trying to harm the company.



                            While I can't speak to specific legal concerns, I would expect in any country that actively trying to damage the future of the company is a fire-able offense at a minimum.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered yesterday









                            cdkMoose

                            9,77022143




                            9,77022143







                            • 36




                              This answers assumes that you somehow have an allegiance with your company outside the specific work you are hired to do. I don't think this is generally true. Both the company and the employee have to ensure that they are a good fit, you are asking the OP to lie about the fact that the company wont be a good fit for her. Given that we aren't in a capitalistic regime where the sole obligation is to money I'd do the right thing and just be honest about pros and cons and let her decide with full information. This is not actively harming the company, the company is harming itself by being awful.
                              – Bakuriu
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              Is informing someone of all the pros and cons of a position REALLY against the companies interests, though? Doing so may prevent a situation where the person is hired on and leaves the company a week later, which would consume a lot of resources.
                              – CrazyPaste
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              If you haven't noticed, companies have near 0 allegiance to their employees. Granted, they expect 100% loyalty from their employees, but very, very few show it to their employees. It's hard to buy into that one-way street.
                              – FreeMan
                              yesterday






                            • 14




                              @cdkMoose Absolutely wrong. Your moral responsibility to be honest and treat people well always trumps loyalty to your employer. To do otherwise marks someone as a horrible human being.
                              – Gabe Sechan
                              yesterday






                            • 5




                              @mxyzplk Instead of taking the feedback and fixing the problem. OK.
                              – Konrad Rudolph
                              22 hours ago













                            • 36




                              This answers assumes that you somehow have an allegiance with your company outside the specific work you are hired to do. I don't think this is generally true. Both the company and the employee have to ensure that they are a good fit, you are asking the OP to lie about the fact that the company wont be a good fit for her. Given that we aren't in a capitalistic regime where the sole obligation is to money I'd do the right thing and just be honest about pros and cons and let her decide with full information. This is not actively harming the company, the company is harming itself by being awful.
                              – Bakuriu
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              Is informing someone of all the pros and cons of a position REALLY against the companies interests, though? Doing so may prevent a situation where the person is hired on and leaves the company a week later, which would consume a lot of resources.
                              – CrazyPaste
                              yesterday






                            • 17




                              If you haven't noticed, companies have near 0 allegiance to their employees. Granted, they expect 100% loyalty from their employees, but very, very few show it to their employees. It's hard to buy into that one-way street.
                              – FreeMan
                              yesterday






                            • 14




                              @cdkMoose Absolutely wrong. Your moral responsibility to be honest and treat people well always trumps loyalty to your employer. To do otherwise marks someone as a horrible human being.
                              – Gabe Sechan
                              yesterday






                            • 5




                              @mxyzplk Instead of taking the feedback and fixing the problem. OK.
                              – Konrad Rudolph
                              22 hours ago








                            36




                            36




                            This answers assumes that you somehow have an allegiance with your company outside the specific work you are hired to do. I don't think this is generally true. Both the company and the employee have to ensure that they are a good fit, you are asking the OP to lie about the fact that the company wont be a good fit for her. Given that we aren't in a capitalistic regime where the sole obligation is to money I'd do the right thing and just be honest about pros and cons and let her decide with full information. This is not actively harming the company, the company is harming itself by being awful.
                            – Bakuriu
                            yesterday




                            This answers assumes that you somehow have an allegiance with your company outside the specific work you are hired to do. I don't think this is generally true. Both the company and the employee have to ensure that they are a good fit, you are asking the OP to lie about the fact that the company wont be a good fit for her. Given that we aren't in a capitalistic regime where the sole obligation is to money I'd do the right thing and just be honest about pros and cons and let her decide with full information. This is not actively harming the company, the company is harming itself by being awful.
                            – Bakuriu
                            yesterday




                            17




                            17




                            Is informing someone of all the pros and cons of a position REALLY against the companies interests, though? Doing so may prevent a situation where the person is hired on and leaves the company a week later, which would consume a lot of resources.
                            – CrazyPaste
                            yesterday




                            Is informing someone of all the pros and cons of a position REALLY against the companies interests, though? Doing so may prevent a situation where the person is hired on and leaves the company a week later, which would consume a lot of resources.
                            – CrazyPaste
                            yesterday




                            17




                            17




                            If you haven't noticed, companies have near 0 allegiance to their employees. Granted, they expect 100% loyalty from their employees, but very, very few show it to their employees. It's hard to buy into that one-way street.
                            – FreeMan
                            yesterday




                            If you haven't noticed, companies have near 0 allegiance to their employees. Granted, they expect 100% loyalty from their employees, but very, very few show it to their employees. It's hard to buy into that one-way street.
                            – FreeMan
                            yesterday




                            14




                            14




                            @cdkMoose Absolutely wrong. Your moral responsibility to be honest and treat people well always trumps loyalty to your employer. To do otherwise marks someone as a horrible human being.
                            – Gabe Sechan
                            yesterday




                            @cdkMoose Absolutely wrong. Your moral responsibility to be honest and treat people well always trumps loyalty to your employer. To do otherwise marks someone as a horrible human being.
                            – Gabe Sechan
                            yesterday




                            5




                            5




                            @mxyzplk Instead of taking the feedback and fixing the problem. OK.
                            – Konrad Rudolph
                            22 hours ago





                            @mxyzplk Instead of taking the feedback and fixing the problem. OK.
                            – Konrad Rudolph
                            22 hours ago











                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote













                            I think the ethical thing would be to resign or at the very least ask somebody else to handle the hiring negotiations and process. You should not be in a position of trust while actively considering what is essentially sabotage, as much as I commend your protectiveness.






                            share|improve this answer








                            New contributor




                            Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                            Check out our Code of Conduct.





















                              up vote
                              1
                              down vote













                              I think the ethical thing would be to resign or at the very least ask somebody else to handle the hiring negotiations and process. You should not be in a position of trust while actively considering what is essentially sabotage, as much as I commend your protectiveness.






                              share|improve this answer








                              New contributor




                              Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                              Check out our Code of Conduct.



















                                up vote
                                1
                                down vote










                                up vote
                                1
                                down vote









                                I think the ethical thing would be to resign or at the very least ask somebody else to handle the hiring negotiations and process. You should not be in a position of trust while actively considering what is essentially sabotage, as much as I commend your protectiveness.






                                share|improve this answer








                                New contributor




                                Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                I think the ethical thing would be to resign or at the very least ask somebody else to handle the hiring negotiations and process. You should not be in a position of trust while actively considering what is essentially sabotage, as much as I commend your protectiveness.







                                share|improve this answer








                                New contributor




                                Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer






                                New contributor




                                Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.









                                answered yesterday









                                Dan

                                291




                                291




                                New contributor




                                Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.





                                New contributor





                                Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.






                                Dan is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                                Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    I don't know the legal ramifications but I don't think you should name names - either of the company or the manager.



                                    If there is a way you can direct the intern to this thread, you could say something like "Of course interviews should work both ways so be aware of that. Have a look at this cautionary tale that I happened across."



                                    I repeat, I am no expert but this is probably what I would do.






                                    share|improve this answer




















                                    • I don't think avoiding the company name makes any difference. In this situation, both OP and intern know exactly what company is being addressed (and I think this would be obvious to any judge). The potential manager's identity might or might not be deducible from context. With our limited information, we probably won't be able to tell what would be the case. On the other hand, pointing to this SE question seems to have some merit, +1 for the idea. This way, OP avoids giving a specific advice while still providing all information needed for the intern to form an opinion of her own.
                                      – Inarion
                                      17 hours ago















                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    I don't know the legal ramifications but I don't think you should name names - either of the company or the manager.



                                    If there is a way you can direct the intern to this thread, you could say something like "Of course interviews should work both ways so be aware of that. Have a look at this cautionary tale that I happened across."



                                    I repeat, I am no expert but this is probably what I would do.






                                    share|improve this answer




















                                    • I don't think avoiding the company name makes any difference. In this situation, both OP and intern know exactly what company is being addressed (and I think this would be obvious to any judge). The potential manager's identity might or might not be deducible from context. With our limited information, we probably won't be able to tell what would be the case. On the other hand, pointing to this SE question seems to have some merit, +1 for the idea. This way, OP avoids giving a specific advice while still providing all information needed for the intern to form an opinion of her own.
                                      – Inarion
                                      17 hours ago













                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote









                                    I don't know the legal ramifications but I don't think you should name names - either of the company or the manager.



                                    If there is a way you can direct the intern to this thread, you could say something like "Of course interviews should work both ways so be aware of that. Have a look at this cautionary tale that I happened across."



                                    I repeat, I am no expert but this is probably what I would do.






                                    share|improve this answer












                                    I don't know the legal ramifications but I don't think you should name names - either of the company or the manager.



                                    If there is a way you can direct the intern to this thread, you could say something like "Of course interviews should work both ways so be aware of that. Have a look at this cautionary tale that I happened across."



                                    I repeat, I am no expert but this is probably what I would do.







                                    share|improve this answer












                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer










                                    answered 19 hours ago









                                    chasly from UK

                                    1546




                                    1546











                                    • I don't think avoiding the company name makes any difference. In this situation, both OP and intern know exactly what company is being addressed (and I think this would be obvious to any judge). The potential manager's identity might or might not be deducible from context. With our limited information, we probably won't be able to tell what would be the case. On the other hand, pointing to this SE question seems to have some merit, +1 for the idea. This way, OP avoids giving a specific advice while still providing all information needed for the intern to form an opinion of her own.
                                      – Inarion
                                      17 hours ago

















                                    • I don't think avoiding the company name makes any difference. In this situation, both OP and intern know exactly what company is being addressed (and I think this would be obvious to any judge). The potential manager's identity might or might not be deducible from context. With our limited information, we probably won't be able to tell what would be the case. On the other hand, pointing to this SE question seems to have some merit, +1 for the idea. This way, OP avoids giving a specific advice while still providing all information needed for the intern to form an opinion of her own.
                                      – Inarion
                                      17 hours ago
















                                    I don't think avoiding the company name makes any difference. In this situation, both OP and intern know exactly what company is being addressed (and I think this would be obvious to any judge). The potential manager's identity might or might not be deducible from context. With our limited information, we probably won't be able to tell what would be the case. On the other hand, pointing to this SE question seems to have some merit, +1 for the idea. This way, OP avoids giving a specific advice while still providing all information needed for the intern to form an opinion of her own.
                                    – Inarion
                                    17 hours ago





                                    I don't think avoiding the company name makes any difference. In this situation, both OP and intern know exactly what company is being addressed (and I think this would be obvious to any judge). The potential manager's identity might or might not be deducible from context. With our limited information, we probably won't be able to tell what would be the case. On the other hand, pointing to this SE question seems to have some merit, +1 for the idea. This way, OP avoids giving a specific advice while still providing all information needed for the intern to form an opinion of her own.
                                    – Inarion
                                    17 hours ago











                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote













                                    There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing; even if there isn't, this probably wouldn't look great for you to be doing.



                                    That said, there is a difference between making an offer and recommending the offer, and that's in presentation. You could go into the meeting and say "hey, you got the offer! Good job! Here's the contents of the offer. I think it's really great because XYZ". You could also go into the meeting and say "We have decided to present you an offer. The contents of the offer are XYZ. Please let us know your decision." One statement of the offer obviously plays up the offer and makes it more attractive to take. The other one doesn't. (IANAL) You are probably obligated only to present the offer, but not to be energetic about it, so just don't.






                                    share|improve this answer
















                                    • 5




                                      "There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing." This is extremely location-specific advice. White-collar direct employment jobs typically have no employment contract in the U.S., for example.
                                      – reirab
                                      yesterday










                                    • @reirab I doubt anyone involved in the hiring process doesn't have a contract - in addition, that's just extra reason to be cautious, as with no contract, it can be terminated at the drop of a hat if they get found out to be doing something like this.
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      17 hours ago










                                    • @UKMonkey Your doubt would be unfounded in regards to the U.S. It's extremely common for people involved in the hiring process in the U.S. to not have a contract. Employment contracts are mostly only for blue-collar jobs and extremely high-level management in the U.S. The vast majority of people involved in hiring processes (myself included) don't work on contract. Of course, contractors always work on contract (by definition,) but they aren't employees of the company and are rarely involved in hiring processes.
                                      – reirab
                                      15 hours ago











                                    • @reirab thanks ... the US sounds like a scary place to work!
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      13 hours ago











                                    • @UKMonkey Not really. Companies have no incentive to fire employees who are actually doing their jobs well. Replacing employees is expensive. Especially so for most white-collar jobs.
                                      – reirab
                                      13 hours ago















                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote













                                    There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing; even if there isn't, this probably wouldn't look great for you to be doing.



                                    That said, there is a difference between making an offer and recommending the offer, and that's in presentation. You could go into the meeting and say "hey, you got the offer! Good job! Here's the contents of the offer. I think it's really great because XYZ". You could also go into the meeting and say "We have decided to present you an offer. The contents of the offer are XYZ. Please let us know your decision." One statement of the offer obviously plays up the offer and makes it more attractive to take. The other one doesn't. (IANAL) You are probably obligated only to present the offer, but not to be energetic about it, so just don't.






                                    share|improve this answer
















                                    • 5




                                      "There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing." This is extremely location-specific advice. White-collar direct employment jobs typically have no employment contract in the U.S., for example.
                                      – reirab
                                      yesterday










                                    • @reirab I doubt anyone involved in the hiring process doesn't have a contract - in addition, that's just extra reason to be cautious, as with no contract, it can be terminated at the drop of a hat if they get found out to be doing something like this.
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      17 hours ago










                                    • @UKMonkey Your doubt would be unfounded in regards to the U.S. It's extremely common for people involved in the hiring process in the U.S. to not have a contract. Employment contracts are mostly only for blue-collar jobs and extremely high-level management in the U.S. The vast majority of people involved in hiring processes (myself included) don't work on contract. Of course, contractors always work on contract (by definition,) but they aren't employees of the company and are rarely involved in hiring processes.
                                      – reirab
                                      15 hours ago











                                    • @reirab thanks ... the US sounds like a scary place to work!
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      13 hours ago











                                    • @UKMonkey Not really. Companies have no incentive to fire employees who are actually doing their jobs well. Replacing employees is expensive. Especially so for most white-collar jobs.
                                      – reirab
                                      13 hours ago













                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote










                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote









                                    There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing; even if there isn't, this probably wouldn't look great for you to be doing.



                                    That said, there is a difference between making an offer and recommending the offer, and that's in presentation. You could go into the meeting and say "hey, you got the offer! Good job! Here's the contents of the offer. I think it's really great because XYZ". You could also go into the meeting and say "We have decided to present you an offer. The contents of the offer are XYZ. Please let us know your decision." One statement of the offer obviously plays up the offer and makes it more attractive to take. The other one doesn't. (IANAL) You are probably obligated only to present the offer, but not to be energetic about it, so just don't.






                                    share|improve this answer












                                    There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing; even if there isn't, this probably wouldn't look great for you to be doing.



                                    That said, there is a difference between making an offer and recommending the offer, and that's in presentation. You could go into the meeting and say "hey, you got the offer! Good job! Here's the contents of the offer. I think it's really great because XYZ". You could also go into the meeting and say "We have decided to present you an offer. The contents of the offer are XYZ. Please let us know your decision." One statement of the offer obviously plays up the offer and makes it more attractive to take. The other one doesn't. (IANAL) You are probably obligated only to present the offer, but not to be energetic about it, so just don't.







                                    share|improve this answer












                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer










                                    answered yesterday









                                    Ertai87

                                    5,103518




                                    5,103518







                                    • 5




                                      "There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing." This is extremely location-specific advice. White-collar direct employment jobs typically have no employment contract in the U.S., for example.
                                      – reirab
                                      yesterday










                                    • @reirab I doubt anyone involved in the hiring process doesn't have a contract - in addition, that's just extra reason to be cautious, as with no contract, it can be terminated at the drop of a hat if they get found out to be doing something like this.
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      17 hours ago










                                    • @UKMonkey Your doubt would be unfounded in regards to the U.S. It's extremely common for people involved in the hiring process in the U.S. to not have a contract. Employment contracts are mostly only for blue-collar jobs and extremely high-level management in the U.S. The vast majority of people involved in hiring processes (myself included) don't work on contract. Of course, contractors always work on contract (by definition,) but they aren't employees of the company and are rarely involved in hiring processes.
                                      – reirab
                                      15 hours ago











                                    • @reirab thanks ... the US sounds like a scary place to work!
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      13 hours ago











                                    • @UKMonkey Not really. Companies have no incentive to fire employees who are actually doing their jobs well. Replacing employees is expensive. Especially so for most white-collar jobs.
                                      – reirab
                                      13 hours ago













                                    • 5




                                      "There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing." This is extremely location-specific advice. White-collar direct employment jobs typically have no employment contract in the U.S., for example.
                                      – reirab
                                      yesterday










                                    • @reirab I doubt anyone involved in the hiring process doesn't have a contract - in addition, that's just extra reason to be cautious, as with no contract, it can be terminated at the drop of a hat if they get found out to be doing something like this.
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      17 hours ago










                                    • @UKMonkey Your doubt would be unfounded in regards to the U.S. It's extremely common for people involved in the hiring process in the U.S. to not have a contract. Employment contracts are mostly only for blue-collar jobs and extremely high-level management in the U.S. The vast majority of people involved in hiring processes (myself included) don't work on contract. Of course, contractors always work on contract (by definition,) but they aren't employees of the company and are rarely involved in hiring processes.
                                      – reirab
                                      15 hours ago











                                    • @reirab thanks ... the US sounds like a scary place to work!
                                      – UKMonkey
                                      13 hours ago











                                    • @UKMonkey Not really. Companies have no incentive to fire employees who are actually doing their jobs well. Replacing employees is expensive. Especially so for most white-collar jobs.
                                      – reirab
                                      13 hours ago








                                    5




                                    5




                                    "There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing." This is extremely location-specific advice. White-collar direct employment jobs typically have no employment contract in the U.S., for example.
                                    – reirab
                                    yesterday




                                    "There's probably something in your contract that expressly forbids this sort of thing." This is extremely location-specific advice. White-collar direct employment jobs typically have no employment contract in the U.S., for example.
                                    – reirab
                                    yesterday












                                    @reirab I doubt anyone involved in the hiring process doesn't have a contract - in addition, that's just extra reason to be cautious, as with no contract, it can be terminated at the drop of a hat if they get found out to be doing something like this.
                                    – UKMonkey
                                    17 hours ago




                                    @reirab I doubt anyone involved in the hiring process doesn't have a contract - in addition, that's just extra reason to be cautious, as with no contract, it can be terminated at the drop of a hat if they get found out to be doing something like this.
                                    – UKMonkey
                                    17 hours ago












                                    @UKMonkey Your doubt would be unfounded in regards to the U.S. It's extremely common for people involved in the hiring process in the U.S. to not have a contract. Employment contracts are mostly only for blue-collar jobs and extremely high-level management in the U.S. The vast majority of people involved in hiring processes (myself included) don't work on contract. Of course, contractors always work on contract (by definition,) but they aren't employees of the company and are rarely involved in hiring processes.
                                    – reirab
                                    15 hours ago





                                    @UKMonkey Your doubt would be unfounded in regards to the U.S. It's extremely common for people involved in the hiring process in the U.S. to not have a contract. Employment contracts are mostly only for blue-collar jobs and extremely high-level management in the U.S. The vast majority of people involved in hiring processes (myself included) don't work on contract. Of course, contractors always work on contract (by definition,) but they aren't employees of the company and are rarely involved in hiring processes.
                                    – reirab
                                    15 hours ago













                                    @reirab thanks ... the US sounds like a scary place to work!
                                    – UKMonkey
                                    13 hours ago





                                    @reirab thanks ... the US sounds like a scary place to work!
                                    – UKMonkey
                                    13 hours ago













                                    @UKMonkey Not really. Companies have no incentive to fire employees who are actually doing their jobs well. Replacing employees is expensive. Especially so for most white-collar jobs.
                                    – reirab
                                    13 hours ago





                                    @UKMonkey Not really. Companies have no incentive to fire employees who are actually doing their jobs well. Replacing employees is expensive. Especially so for most white-collar jobs.
                                    – reirab
                                    13 hours ago











                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote













                                    You know this is somehow wrong, and you're looking for a way to do it anyway.



                                    Since you haven't marked one of the other answers as accepted, here's mine.




                                    I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it




                                    Write up the offer and print it out on company stationary.

                                    As you said, she deserves it.



                                    You can't actually advise her to decline it - you know that or you would have done it already.



                                    You can do other things like work to eliminate any guilt she may feel about declining it. If that happens to nudge her in the direction of declining it, well... you already think that's best for her right?



                                    Use the company email to inform her that [company] is so pleased with the job she did that [we] are prepared to discuss an offer. As her former supervisor it is your privilege to discuss be the person make the offer to her. Say that you'd like to do this off site so there is less pressure. (Seriously there's nothing more awkward than someone asking, "So, did you take it?" as you're walking to the parking lot)



                                    Suggest some well-lit coffee shop (anything not a bar, residence or restaurant). Tell her you expect it to take 30 minutes, but you're available for questions immediately or over the next few days.

                                    Explicitly say that she will receive a written job offer when you sit down with her (reinforces that you're meeting for business reasons).

                                    Explain that she WILL NOT be expected to accept or decline the offer at the meeting.

                                    (This expectation gives her time to think about the subtle things you will be saying and discuss those with a parent/friend/etc.)



                                    When you sit down with her:



                                    First explain that she did such a wonderful job for you that you would be available as a reference not just for this job, but for any other job she might have applied for recently or will apply for in the future.

                                    Be clear that your offer to be a reference is valid regardless of whether she accepts this offer.



                                    Second explain that she would be reporting to [the jerk], and not to you if she accepts. Mention that you won't have much interaction going forward (if this is appropriate).



                                    Then you can explain that internships 'are a sheltered experience'. Accepting this job means that she will be a regular employee and have to deal with all the junk that you have to (smile while saying it).



                                    Then you give her the written offer.

                                    As you hand it to her, tell her she can take it with her.



                                    After that she's on her own.

                                    This is her decision - you cannot in good conscience make this decision for her - which is why you can't tell her not to take it.



                                    For all you know, that person who you think is a nightmare to work with might have a totally different relationship with her. There's less than twenty people in the company, she has to at least be aware of that person, right?



                                    Finally, let it go.

                                    She's an adult now and needs to start reaping the rewards of her decisions - the good and the bad.






                                    share|improve this answer
























                                      up vote
                                      0
                                      down vote













                                      You know this is somehow wrong, and you're looking for a way to do it anyway.



                                      Since you haven't marked one of the other answers as accepted, here's mine.




                                      I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it




                                      Write up the offer and print it out on company stationary.

                                      As you said, she deserves it.



                                      You can't actually advise her to decline it - you know that or you would have done it already.



                                      You can do other things like work to eliminate any guilt she may feel about declining it. If that happens to nudge her in the direction of declining it, well... you already think that's best for her right?



                                      Use the company email to inform her that [company] is so pleased with the job she did that [we] are prepared to discuss an offer. As her former supervisor it is your privilege to discuss be the person make the offer to her. Say that you'd like to do this off site so there is less pressure. (Seriously there's nothing more awkward than someone asking, "So, did you take it?" as you're walking to the parking lot)



                                      Suggest some well-lit coffee shop (anything not a bar, residence or restaurant). Tell her you expect it to take 30 minutes, but you're available for questions immediately or over the next few days.

                                      Explicitly say that she will receive a written job offer when you sit down with her (reinforces that you're meeting for business reasons).

                                      Explain that she WILL NOT be expected to accept or decline the offer at the meeting.

                                      (This expectation gives her time to think about the subtle things you will be saying and discuss those with a parent/friend/etc.)



                                      When you sit down with her:



                                      First explain that she did such a wonderful job for you that you would be available as a reference not just for this job, but for any other job she might have applied for recently or will apply for in the future.

                                      Be clear that your offer to be a reference is valid regardless of whether she accepts this offer.



                                      Second explain that she would be reporting to [the jerk], and not to you if she accepts. Mention that you won't have much interaction going forward (if this is appropriate).



                                      Then you can explain that internships 'are a sheltered experience'. Accepting this job means that she will be a regular employee and have to deal with all the junk that you have to (smile while saying it).



                                      Then you give her the written offer.

                                      As you hand it to her, tell her she can take it with her.



                                      After that she's on her own.

                                      This is her decision - you cannot in good conscience make this decision for her - which is why you can't tell her not to take it.



                                      For all you know, that person who you think is a nightmare to work with might have a totally different relationship with her. There's less than twenty people in the company, she has to at least be aware of that person, right?



                                      Finally, let it go.

                                      She's an adult now and needs to start reaping the rewards of her decisions - the good and the bad.






                                      share|improve this answer






















                                        up vote
                                        0
                                        down vote










                                        up vote
                                        0
                                        down vote









                                        You know this is somehow wrong, and you're looking for a way to do it anyway.



                                        Since you haven't marked one of the other answers as accepted, here's mine.




                                        I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it




                                        Write up the offer and print it out on company stationary.

                                        As you said, she deserves it.



                                        You can't actually advise her to decline it - you know that or you would have done it already.



                                        You can do other things like work to eliminate any guilt she may feel about declining it. If that happens to nudge her in the direction of declining it, well... you already think that's best for her right?



                                        Use the company email to inform her that [company] is so pleased with the job she did that [we] are prepared to discuss an offer. As her former supervisor it is your privilege to discuss be the person make the offer to her. Say that you'd like to do this off site so there is less pressure. (Seriously there's nothing more awkward than someone asking, "So, did you take it?" as you're walking to the parking lot)



                                        Suggest some well-lit coffee shop (anything not a bar, residence or restaurant). Tell her you expect it to take 30 minutes, but you're available for questions immediately or over the next few days.

                                        Explicitly say that she will receive a written job offer when you sit down with her (reinforces that you're meeting for business reasons).

                                        Explain that she WILL NOT be expected to accept or decline the offer at the meeting.

                                        (This expectation gives her time to think about the subtle things you will be saying and discuss those with a parent/friend/etc.)



                                        When you sit down with her:



                                        First explain that she did such a wonderful job for you that you would be available as a reference not just for this job, but for any other job she might have applied for recently or will apply for in the future.

                                        Be clear that your offer to be a reference is valid regardless of whether she accepts this offer.



                                        Second explain that she would be reporting to [the jerk], and not to you if she accepts. Mention that you won't have much interaction going forward (if this is appropriate).



                                        Then you can explain that internships 'are a sheltered experience'. Accepting this job means that she will be a regular employee and have to deal with all the junk that you have to (smile while saying it).



                                        Then you give her the written offer.

                                        As you hand it to her, tell her she can take it with her.



                                        After that she's on her own.

                                        This is her decision - you cannot in good conscience make this decision for her - which is why you can't tell her not to take it.



                                        For all you know, that person who you think is a nightmare to work with might have a totally different relationship with her. There's less than twenty people in the company, she has to at least be aware of that person, right?



                                        Finally, let it go.

                                        She's an adult now and needs to start reaping the rewards of her decisions - the good and the bad.






                                        share|improve this answer












                                        You know this is somehow wrong, and you're looking for a way to do it anyway.



                                        Since you haven't marked one of the other answers as accepted, here's mine.




                                        I'm considering making the offer while privately advising her to decline it




                                        Write up the offer and print it out on company stationary.

                                        As you said, she deserves it.



                                        You can't actually advise her to decline it - you know that or you would have done it already.



                                        You can do other things like work to eliminate any guilt she may feel about declining it. If that happens to nudge her in the direction of declining it, well... you already think that's best for her right?



                                        Use the company email to inform her that [company] is so pleased with the job she did that [we] are prepared to discuss an offer. As her former supervisor it is your privilege to discuss be the person make the offer to her. Say that you'd like to do this off site so there is less pressure. (Seriously there's nothing more awkward than someone asking, "So, did you take it?" as you're walking to the parking lot)



                                        Suggest some well-lit coffee shop (anything not a bar, residence or restaurant). Tell her you expect it to take 30 minutes, but you're available for questions immediately or over the next few days.

                                        Explicitly say that she will receive a written job offer when you sit down with her (reinforces that you're meeting for business reasons).

                                        Explain that she WILL NOT be expected to accept or decline the offer at the meeting.

                                        (This expectation gives her time to think about the subtle things you will be saying and discuss those with a parent/friend/etc.)



                                        When you sit down with her:



                                        First explain that she did such a wonderful job for you that you would be available as a reference not just for this job, but for any other job she might have applied for recently or will apply for in the future.

                                        Be clear that your offer to be a reference is valid regardless of whether she accepts this offer.



                                        Second explain that she would be reporting to [the jerk], and not to you if she accepts. Mention that you won't have much interaction going forward (if this is appropriate).



                                        Then you can explain that internships 'are a sheltered experience'. Accepting this job means that she will be a regular employee and have to deal with all the junk that you have to (smile while saying it).



                                        Then you give her the written offer.

                                        As you hand it to her, tell her she can take it with her.



                                        After that she's on her own.

                                        This is her decision - you cannot in good conscience make this decision for her - which is why you can't tell her not to take it.



                                        For all you know, that person who you think is a nightmare to work with might have a totally different relationship with her. There's less than twenty people in the company, she has to at least be aware of that person, right?



                                        Finally, let it go.

                                        She's an adult now and needs to start reaping the rewards of her decisions - the good and the bad.







                                        share|improve this answer












                                        share|improve this answer



                                        share|improve this answer










                                        answered 12 hours ago









                                        J. Chris Compton

                                        1,377312




                                        1,377312




















                                            up vote
                                            0
                                            down vote













                                            I do think it's appropriate to talk to her, but you need to do so in the right context.



                                            I have a practice when I interview candidates, work with interns, or extend job offers. I always set the stage by saying something along the lines of,




                                            I want to make sure this process is a two way street. In representing the company, I am going to be evaluating your skills and making a decision on your fitness for this position. But, I also want to make sure that you have the opportunity to decide for yourself if this company and this offer is a good fit for you. Do you have any questions about the responsibilities, the work culture, or other aspects of the job that are important to you?




                                            With very junior employees, or others who may not be well positioned to evaluate this via their own questioning (such as the employee you're considering), it's totally legitimate to plant some suggestions or leading questions.



                                            In other words, I don't think it's appropriate to tell her, "you don't want to work here" but I do think it's completely appropriate, and in everyone's best interest, to help her ask some questions that will lead her to making the best decision for her, with a full understanding of the employment environment.



                                            Also, to fully answer your question, I think it's important to ask yourself a few things in terms of the conclusion you've arrived at. Would be actually be a bad thing for her to work there? Or are you just assuming that?




                                            • working with a difficult manager can be a great learning experience for the employee. It's not something you'd wish on someone of course, but it can be a good opportunity for her to understand how to deal with difficult coworkers or superiors (which is a critically important skill that everyone should have)


                                            • working for a failing company can help her understand what makes companies fail, which may put her in a position to contribute some other employer in the future who may be starting to head down that path. I've worked for failing companies and while it's stressful, it's also incredibly eye opening


                                            • someone freshly out of college may simply need a job no matter how bad you think it is!





                                            share|improve this answer
























                                              up vote
                                              0
                                              down vote













                                              I do think it's appropriate to talk to her, but you need to do so in the right context.



                                              I have a practice when I interview candidates, work with interns, or extend job offers. I always set the stage by saying something along the lines of,




                                              I want to make sure this process is a two way street. In representing the company, I am going to be evaluating your skills and making a decision on your fitness for this position. But, I also want to make sure that you have the opportunity to decide for yourself if this company and this offer is a good fit for you. Do you have any questions about the responsibilities, the work culture, or other aspects of the job that are important to you?




                                              With very junior employees, or others who may not be well positioned to evaluate this via their own questioning (such as the employee you're considering), it's totally legitimate to plant some suggestions or leading questions.



                                              In other words, I don't think it's appropriate to tell her, "you don't want to work here" but I do think it's completely appropriate, and in everyone's best interest, to help her ask some questions that will lead her to making the best decision for her, with a full understanding of the employment environment.



                                              Also, to fully answer your question, I think it's important to ask yourself a few things in terms of the conclusion you've arrived at. Would be actually be a bad thing for her to work there? Or are you just assuming that?




                                              • working with a difficult manager can be a great learning experience for the employee. It's not something you'd wish on someone of course, but it can be a good opportunity for her to understand how to deal with difficult coworkers or superiors (which is a critically important skill that everyone should have)


                                              • working for a failing company can help her understand what makes companies fail, which may put her in a position to contribute some other employer in the future who may be starting to head down that path. I've worked for failing companies and while it's stressful, it's also incredibly eye opening


                                              • someone freshly out of college may simply need a job no matter how bad you think it is!





                                              share|improve this answer






















                                                up vote
                                                0
                                                down vote










                                                up vote
                                                0
                                                down vote









                                                I do think it's appropriate to talk to her, but you need to do so in the right context.



                                                I have a practice when I interview candidates, work with interns, or extend job offers. I always set the stage by saying something along the lines of,




                                                I want to make sure this process is a two way street. In representing the company, I am going to be evaluating your skills and making a decision on your fitness for this position. But, I also want to make sure that you have the opportunity to decide for yourself if this company and this offer is a good fit for you. Do you have any questions about the responsibilities, the work culture, or other aspects of the job that are important to you?




                                                With very junior employees, or others who may not be well positioned to evaluate this via their own questioning (such as the employee you're considering), it's totally legitimate to plant some suggestions or leading questions.



                                                In other words, I don't think it's appropriate to tell her, "you don't want to work here" but I do think it's completely appropriate, and in everyone's best interest, to help her ask some questions that will lead her to making the best decision for her, with a full understanding of the employment environment.



                                                Also, to fully answer your question, I think it's important to ask yourself a few things in terms of the conclusion you've arrived at. Would be actually be a bad thing for her to work there? Or are you just assuming that?




                                                • working with a difficult manager can be a great learning experience for the employee. It's not something you'd wish on someone of course, but it can be a good opportunity for her to understand how to deal with difficult coworkers or superiors (which is a critically important skill that everyone should have)


                                                • working for a failing company can help her understand what makes companies fail, which may put her in a position to contribute some other employer in the future who may be starting to head down that path. I've worked for failing companies and while it's stressful, it's also incredibly eye opening


                                                • someone freshly out of college may simply need a job no matter how bad you think it is!





                                                share|improve this answer












                                                I do think it's appropriate to talk to her, but you need to do so in the right context.



                                                I have a practice when I interview candidates, work with interns, or extend job offers. I always set the stage by saying something along the lines of,




                                                I want to make sure this process is a two way street. In representing the company, I am going to be evaluating your skills and making a decision on your fitness for this position. But, I also want to make sure that you have the opportunity to decide for yourself if this company and this offer is a good fit for you. Do you have any questions about the responsibilities, the work culture, or other aspects of the job that are important to you?




                                                With very junior employees, or others who may not be well positioned to evaluate this via their own questioning (such as the employee you're considering), it's totally legitimate to plant some suggestions or leading questions.



                                                In other words, I don't think it's appropriate to tell her, "you don't want to work here" but I do think it's completely appropriate, and in everyone's best interest, to help her ask some questions that will lead her to making the best decision for her, with a full understanding of the employment environment.



                                                Also, to fully answer your question, I think it's important to ask yourself a few things in terms of the conclusion you've arrived at. Would be actually be a bad thing for her to work there? Or are you just assuming that?




                                                • working with a difficult manager can be a great learning experience for the employee. It's not something you'd wish on someone of course, but it can be a good opportunity for her to understand how to deal with difficult coworkers or superiors (which is a critically important skill that everyone should have)


                                                • working for a failing company can help her understand what makes companies fail, which may put her in a position to contribute some other employer in the future who may be starting to head down that path. I've worked for failing companies and while it's stressful, it's also incredibly eye opening


                                                • someone freshly out of college may simply need a job no matter how bad you think it is!






                                                share|improve this answer












                                                share|improve this answer



                                                share|improve this answer










                                                answered 10 hours ago









                                                dwizum

                                                7,92421937




                                                7,92421937















                                                    protected by Jane S yesterday



                                                    Thank you for your interest in this question.
                                                    Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



                                                    Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?


                                                    Popular posts from this blog

                                                    How to check contact read email or not when send email to Individual?

                                                    Displaying single band from multi-band raster using QGIS

                                                    How many registers does an x86_64 CPU actually have?