Would a Fireball cast by a Pixie/Human/Dragon of the same level have the same power?
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In essence this relates to weapon damage from creatures using "identical" weapons: A human's long sword does 1d8 damage, sure, but a storm giant with a proportionally sized long sword shouldn't do merely 1d8 damage plus its strength bonus simply because it's described/shaped like a long sword.
So a pixie is Tiny while a human is Medium and a dragon is Gargantuan in size. In a scenario where you have all three lined up at a target range and they're all, say, 10th level casters, would the size and effect of their fireballs be identical in scope?
A pixie is a little, itty bitty creature. For it to cast fireball and for it to equal the size and destructive ability of a human caster's fireball would seem overpowered.
Likewise a dragon is a mammoth creature so if it cast fireball you'd expect the magic it channeled to be much greater than a standard human caster's fireball.
dnd-5e spells creature-size area-of-effect
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up vote
11
down vote
favorite
In essence this relates to weapon damage from creatures using "identical" weapons: A human's long sword does 1d8 damage, sure, but a storm giant with a proportionally sized long sword shouldn't do merely 1d8 damage plus its strength bonus simply because it's described/shaped like a long sword.
So a pixie is Tiny while a human is Medium and a dragon is Gargantuan in size. In a scenario where you have all three lined up at a target range and they're all, say, 10th level casters, would the size and effect of their fireballs be identical in scope?
A pixie is a little, itty bitty creature. For it to cast fireball and for it to equal the size and destructive ability of a human caster's fireball would seem overpowered.
Likewise a dragon is a mammoth creature so if it cast fireball you'd expect the magic it channeled to be much greater than a standard human caster's fireball.
dnd-5e spells creature-size area-of-effect
15
Judge me by my size, do you?
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 13 at 12:08
add a comment |Â
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
up vote
11
down vote
favorite
In essence this relates to weapon damage from creatures using "identical" weapons: A human's long sword does 1d8 damage, sure, but a storm giant with a proportionally sized long sword shouldn't do merely 1d8 damage plus its strength bonus simply because it's described/shaped like a long sword.
So a pixie is Tiny while a human is Medium and a dragon is Gargantuan in size. In a scenario where you have all three lined up at a target range and they're all, say, 10th level casters, would the size and effect of their fireballs be identical in scope?
A pixie is a little, itty bitty creature. For it to cast fireball and for it to equal the size and destructive ability of a human caster's fireball would seem overpowered.
Likewise a dragon is a mammoth creature so if it cast fireball you'd expect the magic it channeled to be much greater than a standard human caster's fireball.
dnd-5e spells creature-size area-of-effect
In essence this relates to weapon damage from creatures using "identical" weapons: A human's long sword does 1d8 damage, sure, but a storm giant with a proportionally sized long sword shouldn't do merely 1d8 damage plus its strength bonus simply because it's described/shaped like a long sword.
So a pixie is Tiny while a human is Medium and a dragon is Gargantuan in size. In a scenario where you have all three lined up at a target range and they're all, say, 10th level casters, would the size and effect of their fireballs be identical in scope?
A pixie is a little, itty bitty creature. For it to cast fireball and for it to equal the size and destructive ability of a human caster's fireball would seem overpowered.
Likewise a dragon is a mammoth creature so if it cast fireball you'd expect the magic it channeled to be much greater than a standard human caster's fireball.
dnd-5e spells creature-size area-of-effect
dnd-5e spells creature-size area-of-effect
edited Aug 14 at 8:49
Christopher
9,64213672
9,64213672
asked Aug 13 at 11:30
Basement Cat
670720
670720
15
Judge me by my size, do you?
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 13 at 12:08
add a comment |Â
15
Judge me by my size, do you?
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 13 at 12:08
15
15
Judge me by my size, do you?
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 13 at 12:08
Judge me by my size, do you?
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 13 at 12:08
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
Magic is unaffected by creature size. Creatures can have benefits for particular types of magic (itâÂÂs easy to imagine a dragon getting bonuses on fireballâÂÂafter all, their descendants doâÂÂor a pixie getting some benefit with illusions), but nothing automatic just for being larger. Any such benefit would be listed directly in the creature entry.
For reference, this is also consistent with previous editions of Dungeons & Dragons. The premise, presumably, is that magic cannot be judged on physical grounds, and itâÂÂs in magicâÂÂs very nature to surprise you.
1
This is also intuitive, when viewed through the right lens. The pixie is clearly a far superior caster to a human barbarian, despite being significantly smaller.
â Mooing Duck
Aug 14 at 0:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
They would be equally powerful, as magic effects aren't affected by caster size, only by spell level. The description of fireball says:
Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
[. . .]
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 3rd.
As you can see, there is nothing in the description that says that damage is affected in any way by the caster's size, only by the level of the spell slot that they are using to cast.
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
Spells only do what they say - if they don't say they change based on the caster's size, they don't change
Magic isn't like a sword or other physical object. It has its own rules, and part of the appeal of magic in the first place is that it allows a lowly human being to achieve things comparable to dragons and other mighty creatures. In general, how big you are has no effect on the power of the magic you can wield - that's a function purely of your own magical skill and talent, as represented by your character/caster level (and so the level of spell slots you have available) and your spellcasting ability score.
Unless the spell says that its effects vary based on the caster's size, it will have the same effect for a caster of any size.
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Maybe not "the same," but not because of creature size
There are many different kinds of magic in the world of DnD: divine, arcane, psionic, innate, etc. But when it comes to a creature's spellcasting (when not done through a magical item or other external means), there's a common theme: a spell's power and precision are bolstered by the heart and mind, not the body.
Every creature in the Monster Manual, and class or race in the Player's Handbook that can cast spells does so with a spellcasting ability of Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence. None of these are Abilities which are guaranteed to increase with size (a Tarrasque has between a +0 and a -4 in each of them). But they do tend to vary from one creature to another. Some dragons are far more charismatic than others by default (Gold dragons especially), and pixies tend to be more intelligent than white dragons, as a rule.
Likewise, a creature's proficiency bonus, which is essential in determining both its spell save DC and its spell attack modifier, does not necessarily correspond perfectly with its class level. For example, a Drow Mage (MM p. 129) is a "10th-level spellcaster," but seems to have a proficiency bonus of +3. A 10th level adventurer (player character) would have a proficiency bonus of +4. Proficiency bonus is also not reliably related to size: an Awakened Tree is a Huge creature, but only has a proficiency bonus of +2 (MM, p. 317).
All of this means that a spell may be "more" or "less" powerful when it is cast by two different creatures, even if they have the same spellcaster class and level: but only because the saving throws will be more difficult to pass, or the spell will be more likely to hit. And these differences will not be directly related to the size of the creature casting the spell.
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
Magic is unaffected by creature size. Creatures can have benefits for particular types of magic (itâÂÂs easy to imagine a dragon getting bonuses on fireballâÂÂafter all, their descendants doâÂÂor a pixie getting some benefit with illusions), but nothing automatic just for being larger. Any such benefit would be listed directly in the creature entry.
For reference, this is also consistent with previous editions of Dungeons & Dragons. The premise, presumably, is that magic cannot be judged on physical grounds, and itâÂÂs in magicâÂÂs very nature to surprise you.
1
This is also intuitive, when viewed through the right lens. The pixie is clearly a far superior caster to a human barbarian, despite being significantly smaller.
â Mooing Duck
Aug 14 at 0:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
Magic is unaffected by creature size. Creatures can have benefits for particular types of magic (itâÂÂs easy to imagine a dragon getting bonuses on fireballâÂÂafter all, their descendants doâÂÂor a pixie getting some benefit with illusions), but nothing automatic just for being larger. Any such benefit would be listed directly in the creature entry.
For reference, this is also consistent with previous editions of Dungeons & Dragons. The premise, presumably, is that magic cannot be judged on physical grounds, and itâÂÂs in magicâÂÂs very nature to surprise you.
1
This is also intuitive, when viewed through the right lens. The pixie is clearly a far superior caster to a human barbarian, despite being significantly smaller.
â Mooing Duck
Aug 14 at 0:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
up vote
41
down vote
accepted
Magic is unaffected by creature size. Creatures can have benefits for particular types of magic (itâÂÂs easy to imagine a dragon getting bonuses on fireballâÂÂafter all, their descendants doâÂÂor a pixie getting some benefit with illusions), but nothing automatic just for being larger. Any such benefit would be listed directly in the creature entry.
For reference, this is also consistent with previous editions of Dungeons & Dragons. The premise, presumably, is that magic cannot be judged on physical grounds, and itâÂÂs in magicâÂÂs very nature to surprise you.
Magic is unaffected by creature size. Creatures can have benefits for particular types of magic (itâÂÂs easy to imagine a dragon getting bonuses on fireballâÂÂafter all, their descendants doâÂÂor a pixie getting some benefit with illusions), but nothing automatic just for being larger. Any such benefit would be listed directly in the creature entry.
For reference, this is also consistent with previous editions of Dungeons & Dragons. The premise, presumably, is that magic cannot be judged on physical grounds, and itâÂÂs in magicâÂÂs very nature to surprise you.
edited Aug 13 at 11:48
answered Aug 13 at 11:44
KRyan
206k23508894
206k23508894
1
This is also intuitive, when viewed through the right lens. The pixie is clearly a far superior caster to a human barbarian, despite being significantly smaller.
â Mooing Duck
Aug 14 at 0:15
add a comment |Â
1
This is also intuitive, when viewed through the right lens. The pixie is clearly a far superior caster to a human barbarian, despite being significantly smaller.
â Mooing Duck
Aug 14 at 0:15
1
1
This is also intuitive, when viewed through the right lens. The pixie is clearly a far superior caster to a human barbarian, despite being significantly smaller.
â Mooing Duck
Aug 14 at 0:15
This is also intuitive, when viewed through the right lens. The pixie is clearly a far superior caster to a human barbarian, despite being significantly smaller.
â Mooing Duck
Aug 14 at 0:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
They would be equally powerful, as magic effects aren't affected by caster size, only by spell level. The description of fireball says:
Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
[. . .]
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 3rd.
As you can see, there is nothing in the description that says that damage is affected in any way by the caster's size, only by the level of the spell slot that they are using to cast.
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
They would be equally powerful, as magic effects aren't affected by caster size, only by spell level. The description of fireball says:
Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
[. . .]
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 3rd.
As you can see, there is nothing in the description that says that damage is affected in any way by the caster's size, only by the level of the spell slot that they are using to cast.
add a comment |Â
up vote
31
down vote
up vote
31
down vote
They would be equally powerful, as magic effects aren't affected by caster size, only by spell level. The description of fireball says:
Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
[. . .]
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 3rd.
As you can see, there is nothing in the description that says that damage is affected in any way by the caster's size, only by the level of the spell slot that they are using to cast.
They would be equally powerful, as magic effects aren't affected by caster size, only by spell level. The description of fireball says:
Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
[. . .]
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 3rd.
As you can see, there is nothing in the description that says that damage is affected in any way by the caster's size, only by the level of the spell slot that they are using to cast.
edited Aug 13 at 12:09
answered Aug 13 at 11:48
Mr. Sandman
1,201617
1,201617
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
Spells only do what they say - if they don't say they change based on the caster's size, they don't change
Magic isn't like a sword or other physical object. It has its own rules, and part of the appeal of magic in the first place is that it allows a lowly human being to achieve things comparable to dragons and other mighty creatures. In general, how big you are has no effect on the power of the magic you can wield - that's a function purely of your own magical skill and talent, as represented by your character/caster level (and so the level of spell slots you have available) and your spellcasting ability score.
Unless the spell says that its effects vary based on the caster's size, it will have the same effect for a caster of any size.
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
Spells only do what they say - if they don't say they change based on the caster's size, they don't change
Magic isn't like a sword or other physical object. It has its own rules, and part of the appeal of magic in the first place is that it allows a lowly human being to achieve things comparable to dragons and other mighty creatures. In general, how big you are has no effect on the power of the magic you can wield - that's a function purely of your own magical skill and talent, as represented by your character/caster level (and so the level of spell slots you have available) and your spellcasting ability score.
Unless the spell says that its effects vary based on the caster's size, it will have the same effect for a caster of any size.
add a comment |Â
up vote
17
down vote
up vote
17
down vote
Spells only do what they say - if they don't say they change based on the caster's size, they don't change
Magic isn't like a sword or other physical object. It has its own rules, and part of the appeal of magic in the first place is that it allows a lowly human being to achieve things comparable to dragons and other mighty creatures. In general, how big you are has no effect on the power of the magic you can wield - that's a function purely of your own magical skill and talent, as represented by your character/caster level (and so the level of spell slots you have available) and your spellcasting ability score.
Unless the spell says that its effects vary based on the caster's size, it will have the same effect for a caster of any size.
Spells only do what they say - if they don't say they change based on the caster's size, they don't change
Magic isn't like a sword or other physical object. It has its own rules, and part of the appeal of magic in the first place is that it allows a lowly human being to achieve things comparable to dragons and other mighty creatures. In general, how big you are has no effect on the power of the magic you can wield - that's a function purely of your own magical skill and talent, as represented by your character/caster level (and so the level of spell slots you have available) and your spellcasting ability score.
Unless the spell says that its effects vary based on the caster's size, it will have the same effect for a caster of any size.
edited Aug 13 at 12:06
answered Aug 13 at 11:49
Carcer
18.5k247103
18.5k247103
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Maybe not "the same," but not because of creature size
There are many different kinds of magic in the world of DnD: divine, arcane, psionic, innate, etc. But when it comes to a creature's spellcasting (when not done through a magical item or other external means), there's a common theme: a spell's power and precision are bolstered by the heart and mind, not the body.
Every creature in the Monster Manual, and class or race in the Player's Handbook that can cast spells does so with a spellcasting ability of Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence. None of these are Abilities which are guaranteed to increase with size (a Tarrasque has between a +0 and a -4 in each of them). But they do tend to vary from one creature to another. Some dragons are far more charismatic than others by default (Gold dragons especially), and pixies tend to be more intelligent than white dragons, as a rule.
Likewise, a creature's proficiency bonus, which is essential in determining both its spell save DC and its spell attack modifier, does not necessarily correspond perfectly with its class level. For example, a Drow Mage (MM p. 129) is a "10th-level spellcaster," but seems to have a proficiency bonus of +3. A 10th level adventurer (player character) would have a proficiency bonus of +4. Proficiency bonus is also not reliably related to size: an Awakened Tree is a Huge creature, but only has a proficiency bonus of +2 (MM, p. 317).
All of this means that a spell may be "more" or "less" powerful when it is cast by two different creatures, even if they have the same spellcaster class and level: but only because the saving throws will be more difficult to pass, or the spell will be more likely to hit. And these differences will not be directly related to the size of the creature casting the spell.
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
Maybe not "the same," but not because of creature size
There are many different kinds of magic in the world of DnD: divine, arcane, psionic, innate, etc. But when it comes to a creature's spellcasting (when not done through a magical item or other external means), there's a common theme: a spell's power and precision are bolstered by the heart and mind, not the body.
Every creature in the Monster Manual, and class or race in the Player's Handbook that can cast spells does so with a spellcasting ability of Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence. None of these are Abilities which are guaranteed to increase with size (a Tarrasque has between a +0 and a -4 in each of them). But they do tend to vary from one creature to another. Some dragons are far more charismatic than others by default (Gold dragons especially), and pixies tend to be more intelligent than white dragons, as a rule.
Likewise, a creature's proficiency bonus, which is essential in determining both its spell save DC and its spell attack modifier, does not necessarily correspond perfectly with its class level. For example, a Drow Mage (MM p. 129) is a "10th-level spellcaster," but seems to have a proficiency bonus of +3. A 10th level adventurer (player character) would have a proficiency bonus of +4. Proficiency bonus is also not reliably related to size: an Awakened Tree is a Huge creature, but only has a proficiency bonus of +2 (MM, p. 317).
All of this means that a spell may be "more" or "less" powerful when it is cast by two different creatures, even if they have the same spellcaster class and level: but only because the saving throws will be more difficult to pass, or the spell will be more likely to hit. And these differences will not be directly related to the size of the creature casting the spell.
add a comment |Â
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Maybe not "the same," but not because of creature size
There are many different kinds of magic in the world of DnD: divine, arcane, psionic, innate, etc. But when it comes to a creature's spellcasting (when not done through a magical item or other external means), there's a common theme: a spell's power and precision are bolstered by the heart and mind, not the body.
Every creature in the Monster Manual, and class or race in the Player's Handbook that can cast spells does so with a spellcasting ability of Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence. None of these are Abilities which are guaranteed to increase with size (a Tarrasque has between a +0 and a -4 in each of them). But they do tend to vary from one creature to another. Some dragons are far more charismatic than others by default (Gold dragons especially), and pixies tend to be more intelligent than white dragons, as a rule.
Likewise, a creature's proficiency bonus, which is essential in determining both its spell save DC and its spell attack modifier, does not necessarily correspond perfectly with its class level. For example, a Drow Mage (MM p. 129) is a "10th-level spellcaster," but seems to have a proficiency bonus of +3. A 10th level adventurer (player character) would have a proficiency bonus of +4. Proficiency bonus is also not reliably related to size: an Awakened Tree is a Huge creature, but only has a proficiency bonus of +2 (MM, p. 317).
All of this means that a spell may be "more" or "less" powerful when it is cast by two different creatures, even if they have the same spellcaster class and level: but only because the saving throws will be more difficult to pass, or the spell will be more likely to hit. And these differences will not be directly related to the size of the creature casting the spell.
Maybe not "the same," but not because of creature size
There are many different kinds of magic in the world of DnD: divine, arcane, psionic, innate, etc. But when it comes to a creature's spellcasting (when not done through a magical item or other external means), there's a common theme: a spell's power and precision are bolstered by the heart and mind, not the body.
Every creature in the Monster Manual, and class or race in the Player's Handbook that can cast spells does so with a spellcasting ability of Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence. None of these are Abilities which are guaranteed to increase with size (a Tarrasque has between a +0 and a -4 in each of them). But they do tend to vary from one creature to another. Some dragons are far more charismatic than others by default (Gold dragons especially), and pixies tend to be more intelligent than white dragons, as a rule.
Likewise, a creature's proficiency bonus, which is essential in determining both its spell save DC and its spell attack modifier, does not necessarily correspond perfectly with its class level. For example, a Drow Mage (MM p. 129) is a "10th-level spellcaster," but seems to have a proficiency bonus of +3. A 10th level adventurer (player character) would have a proficiency bonus of +4. Proficiency bonus is also not reliably related to size: an Awakened Tree is a Huge creature, but only has a proficiency bonus of +2 (MM, p. 317).
All of this means that a spell may be "more" or "less" powerful when it is cast by two different creatures, even if they have the same spellcaster class and level: but only because the saving throws will be more difficult to pass, or the spell will be more likely to hit. And these differences will not be directly related to the size of the creature casting the spell.
answered Aug 13 at 17:49
Gandalfmeansme
12.2k24484
12.2k24484
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15
Judge me by my size, do you?
â Rubiksmoose
Aug 13 at 12:08