Can a spellcaster use a natural weapon attack to deliver a touch spell?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;







up vote
5
down vote

favorite












Forgive me if this has already been asked, but I've been through pages of searching various combinations of "attack", "touch", "spell", "melee", "bite", "weapon", and a few others.



Most touch spells call out "Make a melee spell attack", and I get that an action can be "Cast a spell" OR "Make an attack" so you can't stack them.



But in the spell Bestow Curse, it simply says, "You touch a creature..."; nothing about being an attack. Specifically, the spell is a WIS save.



So my question is, could my Lizardfolk Cleric deliver this touch via his teeth sinking into tasty flesh? Yes, he would need to make an attack roll for the bite, but the victim would also need to make a WIS save to shrug off the curse.



I'm not saying all touch spells across the board can be done this way, just touch that don't require an attack.



Related, but not the same:



  • Is there any class that can cast a touch spell through a weapon?

  • Can a Monk utilize touch based cantrips with their Unarmed Attacks?









share|improve this question























  • Probably relevant: Does a touch spell require an attack?
    – Mark Wells
    Aug 13 at 19:50

















up vote
5
down vote

favorite












Forgive me if this has already been asked, but I've been through pages of searching various combinations of "attack", "touch", "spell", "melee", "bite", "weapon", and a few others.



Most touch spells call out "Make a melee spell attack", and I get that an action can be "Cast a spell" OR "Make an attack" so you can't stack them.



But in the spell Bestow Curse, it simply says, "You touch a creature..."; nothing about being an attack. Specifically, the spell is a WIS save.



So my question is, could my Lizardfolk Cleric deliver this touch via his teeth sinking into tasty flesh? Yes, he would need to make an attack roll for the bite, but the victim would also need to make a WIS save to shrug off the curse.



I'm not saying all touch spells across the board can be done this way, just touch that don't require an attack.



Related, but not the same:



  • Is there any class that can cast a touch spell through a weapon?

  • Can a Monk utilize touch based cantrips with their Unarmed Attacks?









share|improve this question























  • Probably relevant: Does a touch spell require an attack?
    – Mark Wells
    Aug 13 at 19:50













up vote
5
down vote

favorite









up vote
5
down vote

favorite











Forgive me if this has already been asked, but I've been through pages of searching various combinations of "attack", "touch", "spell", "melee", "bite", "weapon", and a few others.



Most touch spells call out "Make a melee spell attack", and I get that an action can be "Cast a spell" OR "Make an attack" so you can't stack them.



But in the spell Bestow Curse, it simply says, "You touch a creature..."; nothing about being an attack. Specifically, the spell is a WIS save.



So my question is, could my Lizardfolk Cleric deliver this touch via his teeth sinking into tasty flesh? Yes, he would need to make an attack roll for the bite, but the victim would also need to make a WIS save to shrug off the curse.



I'm not saying all touch spells across the board can be done this way, just touch that don't require an attack.



Related, but not the same:



  • Is there any class that can cast a touch spell through a weapon?

  • Can a Monk utilize touch based cantrips with their Unarmed Attacks?









share|improve this question















Forgive me if this has already been asked, but I've been through pages of searching various combinations of "attack", "touch", "spell", "melee", "bite", "weapon", and a few others.



Most touch spells call out "Make a melee spell attack", and I get that an action can be "Cast a spell" OR "Make an attack" so you can't stack them.



But in the spell Bestow Curse, it simply says, "You touch a creature..."; nothing about being an attack. Specifically, the spell is a WIS save.



So my question is, could my Lizardfolk Cleric deliver this touch via his teeth sinking into tasty flesh? Yes, he would need to make an attack roll for the bite, but the victim would also need to make a WIS save to shrug off the curse.



I'm not saying all touch spells across the board can be done this way, just touch that don't require an attack.



Related, but not the same:



  • Is there any class that can cast a touch spell through a weapon?

  • Can a Monk utilize touch based cantrips with their Unarmed Attacks?






dnd-5e spells touch-attacks natural-weapon






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Aug 13 at 19:19









Mark Wells

3,009726




3,009726










asked Aug 13 at 19:00









MivaScott

3,527629




3,527629











  • Probably relevant: Does a touch spell require an attack?
    – Mark Wells
    Aug 13 at 19:50

















  • Probably relevant: Does a touch spell require an attack?
    – Mark Wells
    Aug 13 at 19:50
















Probably relevant: Does a touch spell require an attack?
– Mark Wells
Aug 13 at 19:50





Probably relevant: Does a touch spell require an attack?
– Mark Wells
Aug 13 at 19:50











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
12
down vote













Not in the same action



Attacking a creature is an Action. Bestow curse, the example you linked, also requires an Action to cast. Your character cannot do both at once.1



This is a matter of adhering to the action economy in this edition of the game.



As flavour



Absolutely! If you have haste, or spread it out over two turns and it makes sense, casting a spell through teeth sunk into flesh is a really fun idea! A spell with touch range and no melee attack is effectively a spell with 5ft range (on a grid). All you need to do to cast the spell is to be adjacent.



1If you had multiclassed as a Fighter, and have the Action Surge feature, you could take two Actions in the same round.






share|improve this answer






















  • Please review the edit. I tossed in a link to an explanation of the action economy, and added a footnote for an edge case.
    – KorvinStarmast
    Aug 13 at 20:56










  • @SirCinnamon Lizardfolk have a bonus action bite attack (Hungry Jaws which gives some temp HP) once per short rest which might modify your answer a bit.
    – RonV
    Aug 13 at 21:31











  • Not sure about 5e, but some previous editions have had classes that can do this without multiclassing (Duskblades in 3.5e for example).
    – Austin Hemmelgarn
    Aug 14 at 10:10

















up vote
10
down vote













Yes, but...



Spells like Bestow Curse have a casting time of 1 action. This isn't just how long it takes to cast the spell, that's the cost of the spell. Nothing else can use that 1 action.



However, as long as nothing else is using that action, there is no reason your touch spell can't use the contact from your (presumably unarmed) weapon attack as the point of contact, which would match up with what you're looking to do.



This would mean that you could:



  • Use a bonus action to attack through some special method, and then cast the spell as an action.


  • Use the Quickened Spell metamagic from being a Sorcerer to change the casting time to be a bonus action, allowing you to use your main action to attack.


  • Use Action Surge from being a Fighter to get a second action, using one action to attack and the second to cast the spell.


Another possibility would be a grapple. A grapple generally requires an action to start, but does not require an action to maintain, and you would be touching the target through the entire duration. You could grapple on turn 1, and then cast a touch spell on turn 2 without any additional attack/touch rolls.



This is all on the premise that Bestow Curse does not require an attack roll, but specifically requires you to touch the target. If they do require an attack roll they will say so, I.E. Shocking Grasp.






share|improve this answer





























    up vote
    6
    down vote













    Touch spells only include an attack when the description says so.



    The action is being used to cast a spell not make an attack. One cannot make an attack AND cast a spell. The action used must be one or the other and follow the description of the chosen action.






    share|improve this answer




















    • I think this correct answer would be better if it included an example of what you're referencing when you say "the description says so." The various blade spells come to mind....
      – nitsua60♦
      Aug 13 at 22:37










    Your Answer




    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
    );
    );
    , "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "122"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: false,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













     

    draft saved


    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f129569%2fcan-a-spellcaster-use-a-natural-weapon-attack-to-deliver-a-touch-spell%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest






























    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    12
    down vote













    Not in the same action



    Attacking a creature is an Action. Bestow curse, the example you linked, also requires an Action to cast. Your character cannot do both at once.1



    This is a matter of adhering to the action economy in this edition of the game.



    As flavour



    Absolutely! If you have haste, or spread it out over two turns and it makes sense, casting a spell through teeth sunk into flesh is a really fun idea! A spell with touch range and no melee attack is effectively a spell with 5ft range (on a grid). All you need to do to cast the spell is to be adjacent.



    1If you had multiclassed as a Fighter, and have the Action Surge feature, you could take two Actions in the same round.






    share|improve this answer






















    • Please review the edit. I tossed in a link to an explanation of the action economy, and added a footnote for an edge case.
      – KorvinStarmast
      Aug 13 at 20:56










    • @SirCinnamon Lizardfolk have a bonus action bite attack (Hungry Jaws which gives some temp HP) once per short rest which might modify your answer a bit.
      – RonV
      Aug 13 at 21:31











    • Not sure about 5e, but some previous editions have had classes that can do this without multiclassing (Duskblades in 3.5e for example).
      – Austin Hemmelgarn
      Aug 14 at 10:10














    up vote
    12
    down vote













    Not in the same action



    Attacking a creature is an Action. Bestow curse, the example you linked, also requires an Action to cast. Your character cannot do both at once.1



    This is a matter of adhering to the action economy in this edition of the game.



    As flavour



    Absolutely! If you have haste, or spread it out over two turns and it makes sense, casting a spell through teeth sunk into flesh is a really fun idea! A spell with touch range and no melee attack is effectively a spell with 5ft range (on a grid). All you need to do to cast the spell is to be adjacent.



    1If you had multiclassed as a Fighter, and have the Action Surge feature, you could take two Actions in the same round.






    share|improve this answer






















    • Please review the edit. I tossed in a link to an explanation of the action economy, and added a footnote for an edge case.
      – KorvinStarmast
      Aug 13 at 20:56










    • @SirCinnamon Lizardfolk have a bonus action bite attack (Hungry Jaws which gives some temp HP) once per short rest which might modify your answer a bit.
      – RonV
      Aug 13 at 21:31











    • Not sure about 5e, but some previous editions have had classes that can do this without multiclassing (Duskblades in 3.5e for example).
      – Austin Hemmelgarn
      Aug 14 at 10:10












    up vote
    12
    down vote










    up vote
    12
    down vote









    Not in the same action



    Attacking a creature is an Action. Bestow curse, the example you linked, also requires an Action to cast. Your character cannot do both at once.1



    This is a matter of adhering to the action economy in this edition of the game.



    As flavour



    Absolutely! If you have haste, or spread it out over two turns and it makes sense, casting a spell through teeth sunk into flesh is a really fun idea! A spell with touch range and no melee attack is effectively a spell with 5ft range (on a grid). All you need to do to cast the spell is to be adjacent.



    1If you had multiclassed as a Fighter, and have the Action Surge feature, you could take two Actions in the same round.






    share|improve this answer














    Not in the same action



    Attacking a creature is an Action. Bestow curse, the example you linked, also requires an Action to cast. Your character cannot do both at once.1



    This is a matter of adhering to the action economy in this edition of the game.



    As flavour



    Absolutely! If you have haste, or spread it out over two turns and it makes sense, casting a spell through teeth sunk into flesh is a really fun idea! A spell with touch range and no melee attack is effectively a spell with 5ft range (on a grid). All you need to do to cast the spell is to be adjacent.



    1If you had multiclassed as a Fighter, and have the Action Surge feature, you could take two Actions in the same round.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Aug 13 at 21:02









    V2Blast

    14.5k23596




    14.5k23596










    answered Aug 13 at 19:08









    Sir Cinnamon

    4,3271239




    4,3271239











    • Please review the edit. I tossed in a link to an explanation of the action economy, and added a footnote for an edge case.
      – KorvinStarmast
      Aug 13 at 20:56










    • @SirCinnamon Lizardfolk have a bonus action bite attack (Hungry Jaws which gives some temp HP) once per short rest which might modify your answer a bit.
      – RonV
      Aug 13 at 21:31











    • Not sure about 5e, but some previous editions have had classes that can do this without multiclassing (Duskblades in 3.5e for example).
      – Austin Hemmelgarn
      Aug 14 at 10:10
















    • Please review the edit. I tossed in a link to an explanation of the action economy, and added a footnote for an edge case.
      – KorvinStarmast
      Aug 13 at 20:56










    • @SirCinnamon Lizardfolk have a bonus action bite attack (Hungry Jaws which gives some temp HP) once per short rest which might modify your answer a bit.
      – RonV
      Aug 13 at 21:31











    • Not sure about 5e, but some previous editions have had classes that can do this without multiclassing (Duskblades in 3.5e for example).
      – Austin Hemmelgarn
      Aug 14 at 10:10















    Please review the edit. I tossed in a link to an explanation of the action economy, and added a footnote for an edge case.
    – KorvinStarmast
    Aug 13 at 20:56




    Please review the edit. I tossed in a link to an explanation of the action economy, and added a footnote for an edge case.
    – KorvinStarmast
    Aug 13 at 20:56












    @SirCinnamon Lizardfolk have a bonus action bite attack (Hungry Jaws which gives some temp HP) once per short rest which might modify your answer a bit.
    – RonV
    Aug 13 at 21:31





    @SirCinnamon Lizardfolk have a bonus action bite attack (Hungry Jaws which gives some temp HP) once per short rest which might modify your answer a bit.
    – RonV
    Aug 13 at 21:31













    Not sure about 5e, but some previous editions have had classes that can do this without multiclassing (Duskblades in 3.5e for example).
    – Austin Hemmelgarn
    Aug 14 at 10:10




    Not sure about 5e, but some previous editions have had classes that can do this without multiclassing (Duskblades in 3.5e for example).
    – Austin Hemmelgarn
    Aug 14 at 10:10












    up vote
    10
    down vote













    Yes, but...



    Spells like Bestow Curse have a casting time of 1 action. This isn't just how long it takes to cast the spell, that's the cost of the spell. Nothing else can use that 1 action.



    However, as long as nothing else is using that action, there is no reason your touch spell can't use the contact from your (presumably unarmed) weapon attack as the point of contact, which would match up with what you're looking to do.



    This would mean that you could:



    • Use a bonus action to attack through some special method, and then cast the spell as an action.


    • Use the Quickened Spell metamagic from being a Sorcerer to change the casting time to be a bonus action, allowing you to use your main action to attack.


    • Use Action Surge from being a Fighter to get a second action, using one action to attack and the second to cast the spell.


    Another possibility would be a grapple. A grapple generally requires an action to start, but does not require an action to maintain, and you would be touching the target through the entire duration. You could grapple on turn 1, and then cast a touch spell on turn 2 without any additional attack/touch rolls.



    This is all on the premise that Bestow Curse does not require an attack roll, but specifically requires you to touch the target. If they do require an attack roll they will say so, I.E. Shocking Grasp.






    share|improve this answer


























      up vote
      10
      down vote













      Yes, but...



      Spells like Bestow Curse have a casting time of 1 action. This isn't just how long it takes to cast the spell, that's the cost of the spell. Nothing else can use that 1 action.



      However, as long as nothing else is using that action, there is no reason your touch spell can't use the contact from your (presumably unarmed) weapon attack as the point of contact, which would match up with what you're looking to do.



      This would mean that you could:



      • Use a bonus action to attack through some special method, and then cast the spell as an action.


      • Use the Quickened Spell metamagic from being a Sorcerer to change the casting time to be a bonus action, allowing you to use your main action to attack.


      • Use Action Surge from being a Fighter to get a second action, using one action to attack and the second to cast the spell.


      Another possibility would be a grapple. A grapple generally requires an action to start, but does not require an action to maintain, and you would be touching the target through the entire duration. You could grapple on turn 1, and then cast a touch spell on turn 2 without any additional attack/touch rolls.



      This is all on the premise that Bestow Curse does not require an attack roll, but specifically requires you to touch the target. If they do require an attack roll they will say so, I.E. Shocking Grasp.






      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        10
        down vote










        up vote
        10
        down vote









        Yes, but...



        Spells like Bestow Curse have a casting time of 1 action. This isn't just how long it takes to cast the spell, that's the cost of the spell. Nothing else can use that 1 action.



        However, as long as nothing else is using that action, there is no reason your touch spell can't use the contact from your (presumably unarmed) weapon attack as the point of contact, which would match up with what you're looking to do.



        This would mean that you could:



        • Use a bonus action to attack through some special method, and then cast the spell as an action.


        • Use the Quickened Spell metamagic from being a Sorcerer to change the casting time to be a bonus action, allowing you to use your main action to attack.


        • Use Action Surge from being a Fighter to get a second action, using one action to attack and the second to cast the spell.


        Another possibility would be a grapple. A grapple generally requires an action to start, but does not require an action to maintain, and you would be touching the target through the entire duration. You could grapple on turn 1, and then cast a touch spell on turn 2 without any additional attack/touch rolls.



        This is all on the premise that Bestow Curse does not require an attack roll, but specifically requires you to touch the target. If they do require an attack roll they will say so, I.E. Shocking Grasp.






        share|improve this answer














        Yes, but...



        Spells like Bestow Curse have a casting time of 1 action. This isn't just how long it takes to cast the spell, that's the cost of the spell. Nothing else can use that 1 action.



        However, as long as nothing else is using that action, there is no reason your touch spell can't use the contact from your (presumably unarmed) weapon attack as the point of contact, which would match up with what you're looking to do.



        This would mean that you could:



        • Use a bonus action to attack through some special method, and then cast the spell as an action.


        • Use the Quickened Spell metamagic from being a Sorcerer to change the casting time to be a bonus action, allowing you to use your main action to attack.


        • Use Action Surge from being a Fighter to get a second action, using one action to attack and the second to cast the spell.


        Another possibility would be a grapple. A grapple generally requires an action to start, but does not require an action to maintain, and you would be touching the target through the entire duration. You could grapple on turn 1, and then cast a touch spell on turn 2 without any additional attack/touch rolls.



        This is all on the premise that Bestow Curse does not require an attack roll, but specifically requires you to touch the target. If they do require an attack roll they will say so, I.E. Shocking Grasp.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Aug 13 at 20:38

























        answered Aug 13 at 20:19









        Daniel Zastoupil

        4,9451155




        4,9451155




















            up vote
            6
            down vote













            Touch spells only include an attack when the description says so.



            The action is being used to cast a spell not make an attack. One cannot make an attack AND cast a spell. The action used must be one or the other and follow the description of the chosen action.






            share|improve this answer




















            • I think this correct answer would be better if it included an example of what you're referencing when you say "the description says so." The various blade spells come to mind....
              – nitsua60♦
              Aug 13 at 22:37














            up vote
            6
            down vote













            Touch spells only include an attack when the description says so.



            The action is being used to cast a spell not make an attack. One cannot make an attack AND cast a spell. The action used must be one or the other and follow the description of the chosen action.






            share|improve this answer




















            • I think this correct answer would be better if it included an example of what you're referencing when you say "the description says so." The various blade spells come to mind....
              – nitsua60♦
              Aug 13 at 22:37












            up vote
            6
            down vote










            up vote
            6
            down vote









            Touch spells only include an attack when the description says so.



            The action is being used to cast a spell not make an attack. One cannot make an attack AND cast a spell. The action used must be one or the other and follow the description of the chosen action.






            share|improve this answer












            Touch spells only include an attack when the description says so.



            The action is being used to cast a spell not make an attack. One cannot make an attack AND cast a spell. The action used must be one or the other and follow the description of the chosen action.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Aug 13 at 19:05









            Grosscol

            4,150735




            4,150735











            • I think this correct answer would be better if it included an example of what you're referencing when you say "the description says so." The various blade spells come to mind....
              – nitsua60♦
              Aug 13 at 22:37
















            • I think this correct answer would be better if it included an example of what you're referencing when you say "the description says so." The various blade spells come to mind....
              – nitsua60♦
              Aug 13 at 22:37















            I think this correct answer would be better if it included an example of what you're referencing when you say "the description says so." The various blade spells come to mind....
            – nitsua60♦
            Aug 13 at 22:37




            I think this correct answer would be better if it included an example of what you're referencing when you say "the description says so." The various blade spells come to mind....
            – nitsua60♦
            Aug 13 at 22:37

















             

            draft saved


            draft discarded















































             


            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f129569%2fcan-a-spellcaster-use-a-natural-weapon-attack-to-deliver-a-touch-spell%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest













































































            Popular posts from this blog

            How to check contact read email or not when send email to Individual?

            Displaying single band from multi-band raster using QGIS

            How many registers does an x86_64 CPU actually have?