Irritation due to breathing noises in dojo

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This might seem a silly question, but unfortunately I am extremely oversensitive to human noises. I don't mind meditation with the noise of traffic, or a thunderstorm, or the monotonous drone of a ventilator. But when I am trying to do za-zen in a dojo with other people and I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood. Basically, I stop the meditation and just start thinking about my work or something, to stop noticing the noise. I know this is wrong, and somehow I should make the noise, the other person's breathing and my own irritation part of the meditation: observe my irritation and meanwhile keep getting back to my own respiration, but I wonder whether there is some advice, some trick, to make this easier. I know I am my own biggest enemy here, but it's a problem that keeps on occurring and it's hard for me to get out of this trap.










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    This might seem a silly question, but unfortunately I am extremely oversensitive to human noises. I don't mind meditation with the noise of traffic, or a thunderstorm, or the monotonous drone of a ventilator. But when I am trying to do za-zen in a dojo with other people and I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood. Basically, I stop the meditation and just start thinking about my work or something, to stop noticing the noise. I know this is wrong, and somehow I should make the noise, the other person's breathing and my own irritation part of the meditation: observe my irritation and meanwhile keep getting back to my own respiration, but I wonder whether there is some advice, some trick, to make this easier. I know I am my own biggest enemy here, but it's a problem that keeps on occurring and it's hard for me to get out of this trap.










    share|improve this question
























      4












      4








      4








      This might seem a silly question, but unfortunately I am extremely oversensitive to human noises. I don't mind meditation with the noise of traffic, or a thunderstorm, or the monotonous drone of a ventilator. But when I am trying to do za-zen in a dojo with other people and I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood. Basically, I stop the meditation and just start thinking about my work or something, to stop noticing the noise. I know this is wrong, and somehow I should make the noise, the other person's breathing and my own irritation part of the meditation: observe my irritation and meanwhile keep getting back to my own respiration, but I wonder whether there is some advice, some trick, to make this easier. I know I am my own biggest enemy here, but it's a problem that keeps on occurring and it's hard for me to get out of this trap.










      share|improve this question














      This might seem a silly question, but unfortunately I am extremely oversensitive to human noises. I don't mind meditation with the noise of traffic, or a thunderstorm, or the monotonous drone of a ventilator. But when I am trying to do za-zen in a dojo with other people and I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood. Basically, I stop the meditation and just start thinking about my work or something, to stop noticing the noise. I know this is wrong, and somehow I should make the noise, the other person's breathing and my own irritation part of the meditation: observe my irritation and meanwhile keep getting back to my own respiration, but I wonder whether there is some advice, some trick, to make this easier. I know I am my own biggest enemy here, but it's a problem that keeps on occurring and it's hard for me to get out of this trap.







      personal-practice meditation meditation-zazen






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      asked Jan 30 at 12:34









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          I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood.



          You are quite fortunate to have these kind souls gently show you the rough spots in your meditation. If you were alone, steeped in quiet, there would be no such disturbance. If there is suffering somewhere, it is attached to delight (MN1). For example, if one delights in quietness, seeking refuge from chaos on the cushion, then such disturbances would irritate. It would irritate especially if there is a sense of "my meditation" and "their noise". This is identity view and SN22.155 says:




          But by not grasping what’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, would identity view arise?”
          “No, sir.”




          Breathing noises come and go. In and out. They are not permanent. Instead of thinking "that person keeps breathing loudly!", simply think "There is an in-breath." Later, notice that "There is an out-breath". In doing so, the impermanence manifests. Seeing the impermanence, the next step is to recognize that it really has nothing to do with you:




          This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self --MN62




          Knowing that this is not your self, simply count your own breath and return to that peace you thought threatened. It's not just your peace, it's also their peace. They, over there, are hearing your own breathing. Give them the gift of peace by gently attending to your own breath.






          share|improve this answer






























            0














            Yes the buddha even claims that noise is thorn to set the citta into samadhi, like here http://www.leighb.com/an10_72.htm



            As usual, irritations stem from clinging. this is why ajhan brahm says to rely on wisdom power in order to set the citta into samadhi, instead of will power. In other words, being kind to what is experienced, even the most toxic thoughts, and pushing away bad thoughts in order to avoid having a toxic mind, like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aHSE3H2OCs



            This is because to set the citta into samadhi, mano must have piti and the body must be tranquil. like here from the famous sutta




            For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no
            need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is
            in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person
            endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.



            "For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will,
            'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises
            in a person free from remorse.



            "For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May
            rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture
            arises in a joyful person.



            "For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my
            body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person
            grows serene in body.



            "For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will,
            'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a
            person serene in body experiences pleasure.



            "For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of
            will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things
            that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.




            THis is accomplished through sati sampajana. Indeed, becoming mindful means tracking and sorting the thoughts according to what the buddha claims are good thoughts and to destroy bad thoughts, same thing with vedanas and sannas, like here https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html



            With mindfulness, meaning sati sampajana, the mano becomes so much full of sammasankappa [=avoiding desire and ill will], that the Nīvaranas [=5 hindrances] are contained, that piti arises and then the citta sits in samadhi, where the hindrances are suspended.



            Of course the puthujjanas who despise Nekkhamma will never have sati, let alone set the citta into samadhi. THose people prefer to create a fairy tale where they see themselves as good people, even though all they do is stay addicted to sensuality, as explained,




            "Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking & pondering, that
            becomes the inclination of his awareness. If a monk keeps pursuing
            thinking imbued with sensuality, abandoning thinking imbued with
            renunciation, his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with
            sensuality. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking imbued with ill will,
            abandoning thinking imbued with non-ill will, his mind is bent by that
            thinking imbued with ill will. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking
            imbued with harmfulness, abandoning thinking imbued with harmlessness,
            his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with harmfulness.







            share|improve this answer






















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              I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood.



              You are quite fortunate to have these kind souls gently show you the rough spots in your meditation. If you were alone, steeped in quiet, there would be no such disturbance. If there is suffering somewhere, it is attached to delight (MN1). For example, if one delights in quietness, seeking refuge from chaos on the cushion, then such disturbances would irritate. It would irritate especially if there is a sense of "my meditation" and "their noise". This is identity view and SN22.155 says:




              But by not grasping what’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, would identity view arise?”
              “No, sir.”




              Breathing noises come and go. In and out. They are not permanent. Instead of thinking "that person keeps breathing loudly!", simply think "There is an in-breath." Later, notice that "There is an out-breath". In doing so, the impermanence manifests. Seeing the impermanence, the next step is to recognize that it really has nothing to do with you:




              This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self --MN62




              Knowing that this is not your self, simply count your own breath and return to that peace you thought threatened. It's not just your peace, it's also their peace. They, over there, are hearing your own breathing. Give them the gift of peace by gently attending to your own breath.






              share|improve this answer



























                2














                I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood.



                You are quite fortunate to have these kind souls gently show you the rough spots in your meditation. If you were alone, steeped in quiet, there would be no such disturbance. If there is suffering somewhere, it is attached to delight (MN1). For example, if one delights in quietness, seeking refuge from chaos on the cushion, then such disturbances would irritate. It would irritate especially if there is a sense of "my meditation" and "their noise". This is identity view and SN22.155 says:




                But by not grasping what’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, would identity view arise?”
                “No, sir.”




                Breathing noises come and go. In and out. They are not permanent. Instead of thinking "that person keeps breathing loudly!", simply think "There is an in-breath." Later, notice that "There is an out-breath". In doing so, the impermanence manifests. Seeing the impermanence, the next step is to recognize that it really has nothing to do with you:




                This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self --MN62




                Knowing that this is not your self, simply count your own breath and return to that peace you thought threatened. It's not just your peace, it's also their peace. They, over there, are hearing your own breathing. Give them the gift of peace by gently attending to your own breath.






                share|improve this answer

























                  2












                  2








                  2







                  I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood.



                  You are quite fortunate to have these kind souls gently show you the rough spots in your meditation. If you were alone, steeped in quiet, there would be no such disturbance. If there is suffering somewhere, it is attached to delight (MN1). For example, if one delights in quietness, seeking refuge from chaos on the cushion, then such disturbances would irritate. It would irritate especially if there is a sense of "my meditation" and "their noise". This is identity view and SN22.155 says:




                  But by not grasping what’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, would identity view arise?”
                  “No, sir.”




                  Breathing noises come and go. In and out. They are not permanent. Instead of thinking "that person keeps breathing loudly!", simply think "There is an in-breath." Later, notice that "There is an out-breath". In doing so, the impermanence manifests. Seeing the impermanence, the next step is to recognize that it really has nothing to do with you:




                  This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self --MN62




                  Knowing that this is not your self, simply count your own breath and return to that peace you thought threatened. It's not just your peace, it's also their peace. They, over there, are hearing your own breathing. Give them the gift of peace by gently attending to your own breath.






                  share|improve this answer













                  I hear other people breathing loudly through their noses, it drives me nuts and puts me in an extremely bad mood.



                  You are quite fortunate to have these kind souls gently show you the rough spots in your meditation. If you were alone, steeped in quiet, there would be no such disturbance. If there is suffering somewhere, it is attached to delight (MN1). For example, if one delights in quietness, seeking refuge from chaos on the cushion, then such disturbances would irritate. It would irritate especially if there is a sense of "my meditation" and "their noise". This is identity view and SN22.155 says:




                  But by not grasping what’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, would identity view arise?”
                  “No, sir.”




                  Breathing noises come and go. In and out. They are not permanent. Instead of thinking "that person keeps breathing loudly!", simply think "There is an in-breath." Later, notice that "There is an out-breath". In doing so, the impermanence manifests. Seeing the impermanence, the next step is to recognize that it really has nothing to do with you:




                  This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self --MN62




                  Knowing that this is not your self, simply count your own breath and return to that peace you thought threatened. It's not just your peace, it's also their peace. They, over there, are hearing your own breathing. Give them the gift of peace by gently attending to your own breath.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Jan 30 at 15:14









                  OyaMistOyaMist

                  1,44118




                  1,44118





















                      0














                      Yes the buddha even claims that noise is thorn to set the citta into samadhi, like here http://www.leighb.com/an10_72.htm



                      As usual, irritations stem from clinging. this is why ajhan brahm says to rely on wisdom power in order to set the citta into samadhi, instead of will power. In other words, being kind to what is experienced, even the most toxic thoughts, and pushing away bad thoughts in order to avoid having a toxic mind, like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aHSE3H2OCs



                      This is because to set the citta into samadhi, mano must have piti and the body must be tranquil. like here from the famous sutta




                      For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no
                      need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is
                      in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person
                      endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.



                      "For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will,
                      'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises
                      in a person free from remorse.



                      "For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May
                      rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture
                      arises in a joyful person.



                      "For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my
                      body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person
                      grows serene in body.



                      "For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will,
                      'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a
                      person serene in body experiences pleasure.



                      "For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of
                      will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things
                      that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.




                      THis is accomplished through sati sampajana. Indeed, becoming mindful means tracking and sorting the thoughts according to what the buddha claims are good thoughts and to destroy bad thoughts, same thing with vedanas and sannas, like here https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html



                      With mindfulness, meaning sati sampajana, the mano becomes so much full of sammasankappa [=avoiding desire and ill will], that the Nīvaranas [=5 hindrances] are contained, that piti arises and then the citta sits in samadhi, where the hindrances are suspended.



                      Of course the puthujjanas who despise Nekkhamma will never have sati, let alone set the citta into samadhi. THose people prefer to create a fairy tale where they see themselves as good people, even though all they do is stay addicted to sensuality, as explained,




                      "Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking & pondering, that
                      becomes the inclination of his awareness. If a monk keeps pursuing
                      thinking imbued with sensuality, abandoning thinking imbued with
                      renunciation, his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with
                      sensuality. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking imbued with ill will,
                      abandoning thinking imbued with non-ill will, his mind is bent by that
                      thinking imbued with ill will. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking
                      imbued with harmfulness, abandoning thinking imbued with harmlessness,
                      his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with harmfulness.







                      share|improve this answer



























                        0














                        Yes the buddha even claims that noise is thorn to set the citta into samadhi, like here http://www.leighb.com/an10_72.htm



                        As usual, irritations stem from clinging. this is why ajhan brahm says to rely on wisdom power in order to set the citta into samadhi, instead of will power. In other words, being kind to what is experienced, even the most toxic thoughts, and pushing away bad thoughts in order to avoid having a toxic mind, like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aHSE3H2OCs



                        This is because to set the citta into samadhi, mano must have piti and the body must be tranquil. like here from the famous sutta




                        For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no
                        need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is
                        in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person
                        endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.



                        "For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will,
                        'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises
                        in a person free from remorse.



                        "For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May
                        rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture
                        arises in a joyful person.



                        "For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my
                        body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person
                        grows serene in body.



                        "For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will,
                        'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a
                        person serene in body experiences pleasure.



                        "For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of
                        will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things
                        that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.




                        THis is accomplished through sati sampajana. Indeed, becoming mindful means tracking and sorting the thoughts according to what the buddha claims are good thoughts and to destroy bad thoughts, same thing with vedanas and sannas, like here https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html



                        With mindfulness, meaning sati sampajana, the mano becomes so much full of sammasankappa [=avoiding desire and ill will], that the Nīvaranas [=5 hindrances] are contained, that piti arises and then the citta sits in samadhi, where the hindrances are suspended.



                        Of course the puthujjanas who despise Nekkhamma will never have sati, let alone set the citta into samadhi. THose people prefer to create a fairy tale where they see themselves as good people, even though all they do is stay addicted to sensuality, as explained,




                        "Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking & pondering, that
                        becomes the inclination of his awareness. If a monk keeps pursuing
                        thinking imbued with sensuality, abandoning thinking imbued with
                        renunciation, his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with
                        sensuality. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking imbued with ill will,
                        abandoning thinking imbued with non-ill will, his mind is bent by that
                        thinking imbued with ill will. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking
                        imbued with harmfulness, abandoning thinking imbued with harmlessness,
                        his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with harmfulness.







                        share|improve this answer

























                          0












                          0








                          0







                          Yes the buddha even claims that noise is thorn to set the citta into samadhi, like here http://www.leighb.com/an10_72.htm



                          As usual, irritations stem from clinging. this is why ajhan brahm says to rely on wisdom power in order to set the citta into samadhi, instead of will power. In other words, being kind to what is experienced, even the most toxic thoughts, and pushing away bad thoughts in order to avoid having a toxic mind, like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aHSE3H2OCs



                          This is because to set the citta into samadhi, mano must have piti and the body must be tranquil. like here from the famous sutta




                          For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no
                          need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is
                          in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person
                          endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.



                          "For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will,
                          'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises
                          in a person free from remorse.



                          "For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May
                          rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture
                          arises in a joyful person.



                          "For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my
                          body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person
                          grows serene in body.



                          "For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will,
                          'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a
                          person serene in body experiences pleasure.



                          "For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of
                          will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things
                          that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.




                          THis is accomplished through sati sampajana. Indeed, becoming mindful means tracking and sorting the thoughts according to what the buddha claims are good thoughts and to destroy bad thoughts, same thing with vedanas and sannas, like here https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html



                          With mindfulness, meaning sati sampajana, the mano becomes so much full of sammasankappa [=avoiding desire and ill will], that the Nīvaranas [=5 hindrances] are contained, that piti arises and then the citta sits in samadhi, where the hindrances are suspended.



                          Of course the puthujjanas who despise Nekkhamma will never have sati, let alone set the citta into samadhi. THose people prefer to create a fairy tale where they see themselves as good people, even though all they do is stay addicted to sensuality, as explained,




                          "Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking & pondering, that
                          becomes the inclination of his awareness. If a monk keeps pursuing
                          thinking imbued with sensuality, abandoning thinking imbued with
                          renunciation, his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with
                          sensuality. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking imbued with ill will,
                          abandoning thinking imbued with non-ill will, his mind is bent by that
                          thinking imbued with ill will. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking
                          imbued with harmfulness, abandoning thinking imbued with harmlessness,
                          his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with harmfulness.







                          share|improve this answer













                          Yes the buddha even claims that noise is thorn to set the citta into samadhi, like here http://www.leighb.com/an10_72.htm



                          As usual, irritations stem from clinging. this is why ajhan brahm says to rely on wisdom power in order to set the citta into samadhi, instead of will power. In other words, being kind to what is experienced, even the most toxic thoughts, and pushing away bad thoughts in order to avoid having a toxic mind, like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aHSE3H2OCs



                          This is because to set the citta into samadhi, mano must have piti and the body must be tranquil. like here from the famous sutta




                          For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no
                          need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is
                          in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person
                          endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.



                          "For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will,
                          'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises
                          in a person free from remorse.



                          "For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May
                          rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture
                          arises in a joyful person.



                          "For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my
                          body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person
                          grows serene in body.



                          "For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will,
                          'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a
                          person serene in body experiences pleasure.



                          "For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of
                          will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things
                          that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.




                          THis is accomplished through sati sampajana. Indeed, becoming mindful means tracking and sorting the thoughts according to what the buddha claims are good thoughts and to destroy bad thoughts, same thing with vedanas and sannas, like here https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.019.than.html



                          With mindfulness, meaning sati sampajana, the mano becomes so much full of sammasankappa [=avoiding desire and ill will], that the Nīvaranas [=5 hindrances] are contained, that piti arises and then the citta sits in samadhi, where the hindrances are suspended.



                          Of course the puthujjanas who despise Nekkhamma will never have sati, let alone set the citta into samadhi. THose people prefer to create a fairy tale where they see themselves as good people, even though all they do is stay addicted to sensuality, as explained,




                          "Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking & pondering, that
                          becomes the inclination of his awareness. If a monk keeps pursuing
                          thinking imbued with sensuality, abandoning thinking imbued with
                          renunciation, his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with
                          sensuality. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking imbued with ill will,
                          abandoning thinking imbued with non-ill will, his mind is bent by that
                          thinking imbued with ill will. If a monk keeps pursuing thinking
                          imbued with harmfulness, abandoning thinking imbued with harmlessness,
                          his mind is bent by that thinking imbued with harmfulness.








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                          answered Jan 30 at 15:11









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