Most used word for “quince” in classical Latin

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A typical Spanish dessert is the quince jelly (Spanish: carne/dulce de membrillo), which is also known as codoñate in areas of Catalan influence. Now, the Spanish word for quince is membrillo, which comes from Latin melimēlum 'honey apple'. But Catalan codonyat comes from the Catalan word for quince: codony, and this one comes from Latin cotoneum, cotonei 'quince'.



So it seems that the proper word for quince in Latin was cotoneum but I was wondering how is that the Spanish word membrillo comes from apparently a different fruit. So:



  • Is it possible that the Latin words melimelum and cotoneum meant the same thing in Classical Latin? Or maybe the word melimelum came to mean quince in Late or Medieval Latin?

  • Was cotoneum indeed the most used word for quince?









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  • 1




    Fun etymological fact: English "marmalade" comes (through Portuguese marmelo) from melimelum.
    – brianpck
    3 hours ago










  • Fun non-etymological fact: I had a hard time writing this question because in Spanish "quince" means "fifteen" and somehow my brain rejected the idea that the same word meant something completely different in English. :)
    – Charlie
    3 hours ago














up vote
4
down vote

favorite












A typical Spanish dessert is the quince jelly (Spanish: carne/dulce de membrillo), which is also known as codoñate in areas of Catalan influence. Now, the Spanish word for quince is membrillo, which comes from Latin melimēlum 'honey apple'. But Catalan codonyat comes from the Catalan word for quince: codony, and this one comes from Latin cotoneum, cotonei 'quince'.



So it seems that the proper word for quince in Latin was cotoneum but I was wondering how is that the Spanish word membrillo comes from apparently a different fruit. So:



  • Is it possible that the Latin words melimelum and cotoneum meant the same thing in Classical Latin? Or maybe the word melimelum came to mean quince in Late or Medieval Latin?

  • Was cotoneum indeed the most used word for quince?









share|improve this question

















  • 1




    Fun etymological fact: English "marmalade" comes (through Portuguese marmelo) from melimelum.
    – brianpck
    3 hours ago










  • Fun non-etymological fact: I had a hard time writing this question because in Spanish "quince" means "fifteen" and somehow my brain rejected the idea that the same word meant something completely different in English. :)
    – Charlie
    3 hours ago












up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











A typical Spanish dessert is the quince jelly (Spanish: carne/dulce de membrillo), which is also known as codoñate in areas of Catalan influence. Now, the Spanish word for quince is membrillo, which comes from Latin melimēlum 'honey apple'. But Catalan codonyat comes from the Catalan word for quince: codony, and this one comes from Latin cotoneum, cotonei 'quince'.



So it seems that the proper word for quince in Latin was cotoneum but I was wondering how is that the Spanish word membrillo comes from apparently a different fruit. So:



  • Is it possible that the Latin words melimelum and cotoneum meant the same thing in Classical Latin? Or maybe the word melimelum came to mean quince in Late or Medieval Latin?

  • Was cotoneum indeed the most used word for quince?









share|improve this question













A typical Spanish dessert is the quince jelly (Spanish: carne/dulce de membrillo), which is also known as codoñate in areas of Catalan influence. Now, the Spanish word for quince is membrillo, which comes from Latin melimēlum 'honey apple'. But Catalan codonyat comes from the Catalan word for quince: codony, and this one comes from Latin cotoneum, cotonei 'quince'.



So it seems that the proper word for quince in Latin was cotoneum but I was wondering how is that the Spanish word membrillo comes from apparently a different fruit. So:



  • Is it possible that the Latin words melimelum and cotoneum meant the same thing in Classical Latin? Or maybe the word melimelum came to mean quince in Late or Medieval Latin?

  • Was cotoneum indeed the most used word for quince?






classical-latin late-latin spanish






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asked 4 hours ago









Charlie

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  • 1




    Fun etymological fact: English "marmalade" comes (through Portuguese marmelo) from melimelum.
    – brianpck
    3 hours ago










  • Fun non-etymological fact: I had a hard time writing this question because in Spanish "quince" means "fifteen" and somehow my brain rejected the idea that the same word meant something completely different in English. :)
    – Charlie
    3 hours ago












  • 1




    Fun etymological fact: English "marmalade" comes (through Portuguese marmelo) from melimelum.
    – brianpck
    3 hours ago










  • Fun non-etymological fact: I had a hard time writing this question because in Spanish "quince" means "fifteen" and somehow my brain rejected the idea that the same word meant something completely different in English. :)
    – Charlie
    3 hours ago







1




1




Fun etymological fact: English "marmalade" comes (through Portuguese marmelo) from melimelum.
– brianpck
3 hours ago




Fun etymological fact: English "marmalade" comes (through Portuguese marmelo) from melimelum.
– brianpck
3 hours ago












Fun non-etymological fact: I had a hard time writing this question because in Spanish "quince" means "fifteen" and somehow my brain rejected the idea that the same word meant something completely different in English. :)
– Charlie
3 hours ago




Fun non-etymological fact: I had a hard time writing this question because in Spanish "quince" means "fifteen" and somehow my brain rejected the idea that the same word meant something completely different in English. :)
– Charlie
3 hours ago










2 Answers
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This is from Plin. Nat. Hist. Book 15, ix, 37 —



his proxima amplitudine mala quae vocamus cotonea et Graece cydonea, e Creta insula advecta. incurvatos trahunt ramos prohibentque crescere parentem. plura eorum genera: chrysomela incisuris distincta, colore ad aurum inclinato, qui candidior nostratia cognominat, odoris praestantissimi



— which, answering the second part of your question, seems to remove any doubt about cotoneum being the proper word for a quince.



However, I can't find melimelum anywhere, either directly through a search of the relevant books in Pliny's Natural History or Packhum, and I wonder where the word occurs?






share|improve this answer



























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    Very strangely, there is no entry for melimelum in (the electronic version of) L&S. I do not have the print version before me at the moment, but there are lots of good references (Pliny and others) in Gaffiot:



    https://www.lexilogos.com/latin/gaffiot.php?q=melimelum



    and in Georges:



    http://www.zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=melimelum&k=Georges-1913



    EDIT: L&S do have it, but only as a plural:



    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dmelimela





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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
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      This is from Plin. Nat. Hist. Book 15, ix, 37 —



      his proxima amplitudine mala quae vocamus cotonea et Graece cydonea, e Creta insula advecta. incurvatos trahunt ramos prohibentque crescere parentem. plura eorum genera: chrysomela incisuris distincta, colore ad aurum inclinato, qui candidior nostratia cognominat, odoris praestantissimi



      — which, answering the second part of your question, seems to remove any doubt about cotoneum being the proper word for a quince.



      However, I can't find melimelum anywhere, either directly through a search of the relevant books in Pliny's Natural History or Packhum, and I wonder where the word occurs?






      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        2
        down vote













        This is from Plin. Nat. Hist. Book 15, ix, 37 —



        his proxima amplitudine mala quae vocamus cotonea et Graece cydonea, e Creta insula advecta. incurvatos trahunt ramos prohibentque crescere parentem. plura eorum genera: chrysomela incisuris distincta, colore ad aurum inclinato, qui candidior nostratia cognominat, odoris praestantissimi



        — which, answering the second part of your question, seems to remove any doubt about cotoneum being the proper word for a quince.



        However, I can't find melimelum anywhere, either directly through a search of the relevant books in Pliny's Natural History or Packhum, and I wonder where the word occurs?






        share|improve this answer






















          up vote
          2
          down vote










          up vote
          2
          down vote









          This is from Plin. Nat. Hist. Book 15, ix, 37 —



          his proxima amplitudine mala quae vocamus cotonea et Graece cydonea, e Creta insula advecta. incurvatos trahunt ramos prohibentque crescere parentem. plura eorum genera: chrysomela incisuris distincta, colore ad aurum inclinato, qui candidior nostratia cognominat, odoris praestantissimi



          — which, answering the second part of your question, seems to remove any doubt about cotoneum being the proper word for a quince.



          However, I can't find melimelum anywhere, either directly through a search of the relevant books in Pliny's Natural History or Packhum, and I wonder where the word occurs?






          share|improve this answer












          This is from Plin. Nat. Hist. Book 15, ix, 37 —



          his proxima amplitudine mala quae vocamus cotonea et Graece cydonea, e Creta insula advecta. incurvatos trahunt ramos prohibentque crescere parentem. plura eorum genera: chrysomela incisuris distincta, colore ad aurum inclinato, qui candidior nostratia cognominat, odoris praestantissimi



          — which, answering the second part of your question, seems to remove any doubt about cotoneum being the proper word for a quince.



          However, I can't find melimelum anywhere, either directly through a search of the relevant books in Pliny's Natural History or Packhum, and I wonder where the word occurs?







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 1 hour ago









          Tom Cotton

          12.9k11041




          12.9k11041




















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              Very strangely, there is no entry for melimelum in (the electronic version of) L&S. I do not have the print version before me at the moment, but there are lots of good references (Pliny and others) in Gaffiot:



              https://www.lexilogos.com/latin/gaffiot.php?q=melimelum



              and in Georges:



              http://www.zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=melimelum&k=Georges-1913



              EDIT: L&S do have it, but only as a plural:



              http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dmelimela





              share
























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                Very strangely, there is no entry for melimelum in (the electronic version of) L&S. I do not have the print version before me at the moment, but there are lots of good references (Pliny and others) in Gaffiot:



                https://www.lexilogos.com/latin/gaffiot.php?q=melimelum



                and in Georges:



                http://www.zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=melimelum&k=Georges-1913



                EDIT: L&S do have it, but only as a plural:



                http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dmelimela





                share






















                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  Very strangely, there is no entry for melimelum in (the electronic version of) L&S. I do not have the print version before me at the moment, but there are lots of good references (Pliny and others) in Gaffiot:



                  https://www.lexilogos.com/latin/gaffiot.php?q=melimelum



                  and in Georges:



                  http://www.zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=melimelum&k=Georges-1913



                  EDIT: L&S do have it, but only as a plural:



                  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dmelimela





                  share












                  Very strangely, there is no entry for melimelum in (the electronic version of) L&S. I do not have the print version before me at the moment, but there are lots of good references (Pliny and others) in Gaffiot:



                  https://www.lexilogos.com/latin/gaffiot.php?q=melimelum



                  and in Georges:



                  http://www.zeno.org/Zeno/0/Suche?q=melimelum&k=Georges-1913



                  EDIT: L&S do have it, but only as a plural:



                  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dmelimela






                  share











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                  answered 9 mins ago









                  fdb

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