When does Del x B =0?

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In my lab, I use electromagnets to apply a magnetic gradient force to lots of very small (superparamagnetic) nanoparticles embedded in an elastic medium. I believe that these can be treated as magnetic dipoles, with a dipole moment $mathbfm$.



It is well known that the force on a magnetic dipole moment in a magnetic field is given by



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB).$$



I need to prove to myself that this can be reduced to
$$mathbfF = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB.$$



I know that we can rewrite the first equation using one of those vector calculus identities that appears, e.g. on the inside covers of Jackson:



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB) = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB + (mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfm + mathbfm times (mathbfnabla times mathbfB) + mathbfB times (mathbfnabla times mathbfm).$$



  1. The first term is good -- it can stay!

  2. For the second term, can I use the commutative property of the dot product to say that $mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla = mathbfnabla cdot mathbfB = 0$ because magnetic monopoles don't exist?

  3. On page 374 of Andrew Zangwill's Modern Electrodynamics (2013), he writes, "When the sources of $mathbfB$ are far away so $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$, blah blah blah." This is the thing I'm most confused about. How do we know that $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$? Can someone show me a proof and/or help me understand what the "far away" criterion means in real life? (Far away relative to what?)

  4. I think the fourth term is simple -- since a dipole moment is just 1 vector, the curl is always zero.









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  • To add to the clarification in the accepted answer. $mathbfBcdotnabla$ is an operator itself, $B_ipartial_i$, that can be used on other quantites. This is why it is not the same as $nablacdotmathbfB=partial_iB_i=0$
    – Aaron Stevens
    8 mins ago















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












In my lab, I use electromagnets to apply a magnetic gradient force to lots of very small (superparamagnetic) nanoparticles embedded in an elastic medium. I believe that these can be treated as magnetic dipoles, with a dipole moment $mathbfm$.



It is well known that the force on a magnetic dipole moment in a magnetic field is given by



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB).$$



I need to prove to myself that this can be reduced to
$$mathbfF = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB.$$



I know that we can rewrite the first equation using one of those vector calculus identities that appears, e.g. on the inside covers of Jackson:



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB) = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB + (mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfm + mathbfm times (mathbfnabla times mathbfB) + mathbfB times (mathbfnabla times mathbfm).$$



  1. The first term is good -- it can stay!

  2. For the second term, can I use the commutative property of the dot product to say that $mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla = mathbfnabla cdot mathbfB = 0$ because magnetic monopoles don't exist?

  3. On page 374 of Andrew Zangwill's Modern Electrodynamics (2013), he writes, "When the sources of $mathbfB$ are far away so $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$, blah blah blah." This is the thing I'm most confused about. How do we know that $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$? Can someone show me a proof and/or help me understand what the "far away" criterion means in real life? (Far away relative to what?)

  4. I think the fourth term is simple -- since a dipole moment is just 1 vector, the curl is always zero.









share|cite|improve this question





















  • To add to the clarification in the accepted answer. $mathbfBcdotnabla$ is an operator itself, $B_ipartial_i$, that can be used on other quantites. This is why it is not the same as $nablacdotmathbfB=partial_iB_i=0$
    – Aaron Stevens
    8 mins ago













up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











In my lab, I use electromagnets to apply a magnetic gradient force to lots of very small (superparamagnetic) nanoparticles embedded in an elastic medium. I believe that these can be treated as magnetic dipoles, with a dipole moment $mathbfm$.



It is well known that the force on a magnetic dipole moment in a magnetic field is given by



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB).$$



I need to prove to myself that this can be reduced to
$$mathbfF = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB.$$



I know that we can rewrite the first equation using one of those vector calculus identities that appears, e.g. on the inside covers of Jackson:



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB) = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB + (mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfm + mathbfm times (mathbfnabla times mathbfB) + mathbfB times (mathbfnabla times mathbfm).$$



  1. The first term is good -- it can stay!

  2. For the second term, can I use the commutative property of the dot product to say that $mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla = mathbfnabla cdot mathbfB = 0$ because magnetic monopoles don't exist?

  3. On page 374 of Andrew Zangwill's Modern Electrodynamics (2013), he writes, "When the sources of $mathbfB$ are far away so $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$, blah blah blah." This is the thing I'm most confused about. How do we know that $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$? Can someone show me a proof and/or help me understand what the "far away" criterion means in real life? (Far away relative to what?)

  4. I think the fourth term is simple -- since a dipole moment is just 1 vector, the curl is always zero.









share|cite|improve this question













In my lab, I use electromagnets to apply a magnetic gradient force to lots of very small (superparamagnetic) nanoparticles embedded in an elastic medium. I believe that these can be treated as magnetic dipoles, with a dipole moment $mathbfm$.



It is well known that the force on a magnetic dipole moment in a magnetic field is given by



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB).$$



I need to prove to myself that this can be reduced to
$$mathbfF = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB.$$



I know that we can rewrite the first equation using one of those vector calculus identities that appears, e.g. on the inside covers of Jackson:



$$mathbfF = mathbfnabla(mathbfm cdot mathbfB) = (mathbfm cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfB + (mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla)mathbfm + mathbfm times (mathbfnabla times mathbfB) + mathbfB times (mathbfnabla times mathbfm).$$



  1. The first term is good -- it can stay!

  2. For the second term, can I use the commutative property of the dot product to say that $mathbfB cdot mathbfnabla = mathbfnabla cdot mathbfB = 0$ because magnetic monopoles don't exist?

  3. On page 374 of Andrew Zangwill's Modern Electrodynamics (2013), he writes, "When the sources of $mathbfB$ are far away so $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$, blah blah blah." This is the thing I'm most confused about. How do we know that $mathbfnabla times mathbfB = 0$? Can someone show me a proof and/or help me understand what the "far away" criterion means in real life? (Far away relative to what?)

  4. I think the fourth term is simple -- since a dipole moment is just 1 vector, the curl is always zero.






electromagnetism magnetic-fields dipole-moment






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  • To add to the clarification in the accepted answer. $mathbfBcdotnabla$ is an operator itself, $B_ipartial_i$, that can be used on other quantites. This is why it is not the same as $nablacdotmathbfB=partial_iB_i=0$
    – Aaron Stevens
    8 mins ago

















  • To add to the clarification in the accepted answer. $mathbfBcdotnabla$ is an operator itself, $B_ipartial_i$, that can be used on other quantites. This is why it is not the same as $nablacdotmathbfB=partial_iB_i=0$
    – Aaron Stevens
    8 mins ago
















To add to the clarification in the accepted answer. $mathbfBcdotnabla$ is an operator itself, $B_ipartial_i$, that can be used on other quantites. This is why it is not the same as $nablacdotmathbfB=partial_iB_i=0$
– Aaron Stevens
8 mins ago





To add to the clarification in the accepted answer. $mathbfBcdotnabla$ is an operator itself, $B_ipartial_i$, that can be used on other quantites. This is why it is not the same as $nablacdotmathbfB=partial_iB_i=0$
– Aaron Stevens
8 mins ago











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Ampere's law says that
$$nabla times boldsymbolB = mu_0 boldsymbolJ + epsilon_0mu_0 fracpartialpartial t boldsymbolE$$



so "far away from sources" means that the current density $boldsymbolJ$ can be taken to be zero, and that there are no time-varying electric fields. The latter is actually a general approximation that can often be made for relatively low frequency (including steady-state) phenomena.




As for the other questions, that identity actually does not apply here, because $mathbfmcdot B$ is not the dot product of two vector fields. In particular, the spatial derivatives of $mathbfm$ are not defined.



Instead, we can use index notation to get the actual identity we're looking for. Note that



$$[nabla(mathbfmcdot B)]_i = partial_i m_j B_j = m_jpartial_i B_j$$



This doesn't have an immediately obvious vector form, but we can do the following sorcery (which, full disclosure, I did backwards):



$$m_jpartial_iB_j = (m_jpartial_iB_j - m_jpartial_jB_i) + m_jpartial_jB_i$$
$$ = (delta_ildelta_jm - delta_imdelta_jl) m_j partial _l B_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
$$ =epsilon_ijk epsilon_klm m_jpartial_lB_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
$$ =epsilon_ijk m_j (epsilon_klmpartial_l B_m) + m_j partial_j B_i$$
$$ = [ mathbfmtimes (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfmcdot nabla)mathbfB]_i$$
and so if $mathbfm$ and $mathbfB$ are a constant vector and a vector field respectively, the applicable vector identity is



$$nabla(mathbfmcdot B) = mathbfm times (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfm cdot nabla)mathbfB$$



This is, of course, what we would get if we treated $mathbfm$ as a spatially constant vector field, so you could wave your hands and say that $nabla mathbfm$ and $nabla times mathbfm$ are equal to zero. However, you should remember that those expressions are formally not defined.




Lastly, I want to clarify that there is no "commutative property of the dot product" when it comes to the divergence operator, because divergence is not a dot product. It only looks like one (and only in Cartesian coordinates), so $div(mathbfB) = nabla cdot mathbf B$ is nothing more than a useful mnemonic device.






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    1 Answer
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    active

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    1 Answer
    1






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted










    Ampere's law says that
    $$nabla times boldsymbolB = mu_0 boldsymbolJ + epsilon_0mu_0 fracpartialpartial t boldsymbolE$$



    so "far away from sources" means that the current density $boldsymbolJ$ can be taken to be zero, and that there are no time-varying electric fields. The latter is actually a general approximation that can often be made for relatively low frequency (including steady-state) phenomena.




    As for the other questions, that identity actually does not apply here, because $mathbfmcdot B$ is not the dot product of two vector fields. In particular, the spatial derivatives of $mathbfm$ are not defined.



    Instead, we can use index notation to get the actual identity we're looking for. Note that



    $$[nabla(mathbfmcdot B)]_i = partial_i m_j B_j = m_jpartial_i B_j$$



    This doesn't have an immediately obvious vector form, but we can do the following sorcery (which, full disclosure, I did backwards):



    $$m_jpartial_iB_j = (m_jpartial_iB_j - m_jpartial_jB_i) + m_jpartial_jB_i$$
    $$ = (delta_ildelta_jm - delta_imdelta_jl) m_j partial _l B_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
    $$ =epsilon_ijk epsilon_klm m_jpartial_lB_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
    $$ =epsilon_ijk m_j (epsilon_klmpartial_l B_m) + m_j partial_j B_i$$
    $$ = [ mathbfmtimes (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfmcdot nabla)mathbfB]_i$$
    and so if $mathbfm$ and $mathbfB$ are a constant vector and a vector field respectively, the applicable vector identity is



    $$nabla(mathbfmcdot B) = mathbfm times (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfm cdot nabla)mathbfB$$



    This is, of course, what we would get if we treated $mathbfm$ as a spatially constant vector field, so you could wave your hands and say that $nabla mathbfm$ and $nabla times mathbfm$ are equal to zero. However, you should remember that those expressions are formally not defined.




    Lastly, I want to clarify that there is no "commutative property of the dot product" when it comes to the divergence operator, because divergence is not a dot product. It only looks like one (and only in Cartesian coordinates), so $div(mathbfB) = nabla cdot mathbf B$ is nothing more than a useful mnemonic device.






    share|cite|improve this answer


























      up vote
      4
      down vote



      accepted










      Ampere's law says that
      $$nabla times boldsymbolB = mu_0 boldsymbolJ + epsilon_0mu_0 fracpartialpartial t boldsymbolE$$



      so "far away from sources" means that the current density $boldsymbolJ$ can be taken to be zero, and that there are no time-varying electric fields. The latter is actually a general approximation that can often be made for relatively low frequency (including steady-state) phenomena.




      As for the other questions, that identity actually does not apply here, because $mathbfmcdot B$ is not the dot product of two vector fields. In particular, the spatial derivatives of $mathbfm$ are not defined.



      Instead, we can use index notation to get the actual identity we're looking for. Note that



      $$[nabla(mathbfmcdot B)]_i = partial_i m_j B_j = m_jpartial_i B_j$$



      This doesn't have an immediately obvious vector form, but we can do the following sorcery (which, full disclosure, I did backwards):



      $$m_jpartial_iB_j = (m_jpartial_iB_j - m_jpartial_jB_i) + m_jpartial_jB_i$$
      $$ = (delta_ildelta_jm - delta_imdelta_jl) m_j partial _l B_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
      $$ =epsilon_ijk epsilon_klm m_jpartial_lB_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
      $$ =epsilon_ijk m_j (epsilon_klmpartial_l B_m) + m_j partial_j B_i$$
      $$ = [ mathbfmtimes (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfmcdot nabla)mathbfB]_i$$
      and so if $mathbfm$ and $mathbfB$ are a constant vector and a vector field respectively, the applicable vector identity is



      $$nabla(mathbfmcdot B) = mathbfm times (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfm cdot nabla)mathbfB$$



      This is, of course, what we would get if we treated $mathbfm$ as a spatially constant vector field, so you could wave your hands and say that $nabla mathbfm$ and $nabla times mathbfm$ are equal to zero. However, you should remember that those expressions are formally not defined.




      Lastly, I want to clarify that there is no "commutative property of the dot product" when it comes to the divergence operator, because divergence is not a dot product. It only looks like one (and only in Cartesian coordinates), so $div(mathbfB) = nabla cdot mathbf B$ is nothing more than a useful mnemonic device.






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        up vote
        4
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        4
        down vote



        accepted






        Ampere's law says that
        $$nabla times boldsymbolB = mu_0 boldsymbolJ + epsilon_0mu_0 fracpartialpartial t boldsymbolE$$



        so "far away from sources" means that the current density $boldsymbolJ$ can be taken to be zero, and that there are no time-varying electric fields. The latter is actually a general approximation that can often be made for relatively low frequency (including steady-state) phenomena.




        As for the other questions, that identity actually does not apply here, because $mathbfmcdot B$ is not the dot product of two vector fields. In particular, the spatial derivatives of $mathbfm$ are not defined.



        Instead, we can use index notation to get the actual identity we're looking for. Note that



        $$[nabla(mathbfmcdot B)]_i = partial_i m_j B_j = m_jpartial_i B_j$$



        This doesn't have an immediately obvious vector form, but we can do the following sorcery (which, full disclosure, I did backwards):



        $$m_jpartial_iB_j = (m_jpartial_iB_j - m_jpartial_jB_i) + m_jpartial_jB_i$$
        $$ = (delta_ildelta_jm - delta_imdelta_jl) m_j partial _l B_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
        $$ =epsilon_ijk epsilon_klm m_jpartial_lB_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
        $$ =epsilon_ijk m_j (epsilon_klmpartial_l B_m) + m_j partial_j B_i$$
        $$ = [ mathbfmtimes (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfmcdot nabla)mathbfB]_i$$
        and so if $mathbfm$ and $mathbfB$ are a constant vector and a vector field respectively, the applicable vector identity is



        $$nabla(mathbfmcdot B) = mathbfm times (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfm cdot nabla)mathbfB$$



        This is, of course, what we would get if we treated $mathbfm$ as a spatially constant vector field, so you could wave your hands and say that $nabla mathbfm$ and $nabla times mathbfm$ are equal to zero. However, you should remember that those expressions are formally not defined.




        Lastly, I want to clarify that there is no "commutative property of the dot product" when it comes to the divergence operator, because divergence is not a dot product. It only looks like one (and only in Cartesian coordinates), so $div(mathbfB) = nabla cdot mathbf B$ is nothing more than a useful mnemonic device.






        share|cite|improve this answer














        Ampere's law says that
        $$nabla times boldsymbolB = mu_0 boldsymbolJ + epsilon_0mu_0 fracpartialpartial t boldsymbolE$$



        so "far away from sources" means that the current density $boldsymbolJ$ can be taken to be zero, and that there are no time-varying electric fields. The latter is actually a general approximation that can often be made for relatively low frequency (including steady-state) phenomena.




        As for the other questions, that identity actually does not apply here, because $mathbfmcdot B$ is not the dot product of two vector fields. In particular, the spatial derivatives of $mathbfm$ are not defined.



        Instead, we can use index notation to get the actual identity we're looking for. Note that



        $$[nabla(mathbfmcdot B)]_i = partial_i m_j B_j = m_jpartial_i B_j$$



        This doesn't have an immediately obvious vector form, but we can do the following sorcery (which, full disclosure, I did backwards):



        $$m_jpartial_iB_j = (m_jpartial_iB_j - m_jpartial_jB_i) + m_jpartial_jB_i$$
        $$ = (delta_ildelta_jm - delta_imdelta_jl) m_j partial _l B_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
        $$ =epsilon_ijk epsilon_klm m_jpartial_lB_m + m_jpartial_j B_i$$
        $$ =epsilon_ijk m_j (epsilon_klmpartial_l B_m) + m_j partial_j B_i$$
        $$ = [ mathbfmtimes (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfmcdot nabla)mathbfB]_i$$
        and so if $mathbfm$ and $mathbfB$ are a constant vector and a vector field respectively, the applicable vector identity is



        $$nabla(mathbfmcdot B) = mathbfm times (nabla times mathbfB) + (mathbfm cdot nabla)mathbfB$$



        This is, of course, what we would get if we treated $mathbfm$ as a spatially constant vector field, so you could wave your hands and say that $nabla mathbfm$ and $nabla times mathbfm$ are equal to zero. However, you should remember that those expressions are formally not defined.




        Lastly, I want to clarify that there is no "commutative property of the dot product" when it comes to the divergence operator, because divergence is not a dot product. It only looks like one (and only in Cartesian coordinates), so $div(mathbfB) = nabla cdot mathbf B$ is nothing more than a useful mnemonic device.







        share|cite|improve this answer














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        edited 1 hour ago

























        answered 1 hour ago









        J. Murray

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