RAM for Socket 7 Motherboard - 64MB sticks appearing as 16MB

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I hope this is the right place to ask this and that it is "retro" enough. I have a Socket 7 machine that I am working on. It's my 1st PC from childhood that I restored, and now I would like to upgrade it.



The system is a FIC VT-502 with a Cyrix 6x86MX PR166 and (currently) 48MB of SIMM memory. The motherboard supports both EDO SIMM and SDRAM DIMM, as seen here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Socket_7_Builds#Choosing_RAM



I want to upgrade to using 128MB of RAM and, if possible, use SDRAM (because I can, and because it seems to be cheaper). I found some SDRAM on a site called MemoryX (or MemoryTen), but when I installed it, each stick was only read as 16MB, for a total of 32MB! Here's what I bought, claiming to be 64MB each stick: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SurvJWmKxdrPbZ5Q8



Doing some research, I found http://redhill.net.au/b/b-98.html#ram which explains this issue:




most older mainboards do not understand 64Mbit [megabit] chips and see a standard 64MB [megabyte] DIMM as eight 16Mbit [megabit] chips




So, my question is what should I be looking for when trying to buy 128MB (2x64MB) of SDRAM for my system? Do I want single-sided or double-sided RAM? How many chips should be on the stick? Or should I just stick with SIMM and get 128MB (4x32MB) of SIMM?










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  • 1




    Is your BIOS the latest version for your motherboard?
    – traal
    3 hours ago










  • @traal Yes, it seems to be. I got the latest from: fic.com.tw/support/motherboard/bios/pre/vt-502_bios.aspx
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago










  • @traal I am actually currently on a newer version than that one, that I found at: ftp.fic.com.tw/motherboard/bios/socket7/vt-502/y2k
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    If the problem is that the MOBO designer didn't bother with traces to connect address lines that would never have been used with the RAM sticks available at that time, updating the BIOS isn't going to help!
    – alephzero
    2 hours ago










  • @alephzero I guess that's a problem with these old boards. I had a similar issue with the hard drive. Anything bigger than 32GB will make the system hang on boot (or when the BIOS scans the drive). I had to use a 40GB HDD that had a jumper setting to allow me to limit it to 32GB.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    2 hours ago














up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I hope this is the right place to ask this and that it is "retro" enough. I have a Socket 7 machine that I am working on. It's my 1st PC from childhood that I restored, and now I would like to upgrade it.



The system is a FIC VT-502 with a Cyrix 6x86MX PR166 and (currently) 48MB of SIMM memory. The motherboard supports both EDO SIMM and SDRAM DIMM, as seen here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Socket_7_Builds#Choosing_RAM



I want to upgrade to using 128MB of RAM and, if possible, use SDRAM (because I can, and because it seems to be cheaper). I found some SDRAM on a site called MemoryX (or MemoryTen), but when I installed it, each stick was only read as 16MB, for a total of 32MB! Here's what I bought, claiming to be 64MB each stick: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SurvJWmKxdrPbZ5Q8



Doing some research, I found http://redhill.net.au/b/b-98.html#ram which explains this issue:




most older mainboards do not understand 64Mbit [megabit] chips and see a standard 64MB [megabyte] DIMM as eight 16Mbit [megabit] chips




So, my question is what should I be looking for when trying to buy 128MB (2x64MB) of SDRAM for my system? Do I want single-sided or double-sided RAM? How many chips should be on the stick? Or should I just stick with SIMM and get 128MB (4x32MB) of SIMM?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Rocket Hazmat is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 1




    Is your BIOS the latest version for your motherboard?
    – traal
    3 hours ago










  • @traal Yes, it seems to be. I got the latest from: fic.com.tw/support/motherboard/bios/pre/vt-502_bios.aspx
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago










  • @traal I am actually currently on a newer version than that one, that I found at: ftp.fic.com.tw/motherboard/bios/socket7/vt-502/y2k
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    If the problem is that the MOBO designer didn't bother with traces to connect address lines that would never have been used with the RAM sticks available at that time, updating the BIOS isn't going to help!
    – alephzero
    2 hours ago










  • @alephzero I guess that's a problem with these old boards. I had a similar issue with the hard drive. Anything bigger than 32GB will make the system hang on boot (or when the BIOS scans the drive). I had to use a 40GB HDD that had a jumper setting to allow me to limit it to 32GB.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    2 hours ago












up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











I hope this is the right place to ask this and that it is "retro" enough. I have a Socket 7 machine that I am working on. It's my 1st PC from childhood that I restored, and now I would like to upgrade it.



The system is a FIC VT-502 with a Cyrix 6x86MX PR166 and (currently) 48MB of SIMM memory. The motherboard supports both EDO SIMM and SDRAM DIMM, as seen here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Socket_7_Builds#Choosing_RAM



I want to upgrade to using 128MB of RAM and, if possible, use SDRAM (because I can, and because it seems to be cheaper). I found some SDRAM on a site called MemoryX (or MemoryTen), but when I installed it, each stick was only read as 16MB, for a total of 32MB! Here's what I bought, claiming to be 64MB each stick: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SurvJWmKxdrPbZ5Q8



Doing some research, I found http://redhill.net.au/b/b-98.html#ram which explains this issue:




most older mainboards do not understand 64Mbit [megabit] chips and see a standard 64MB [megabyte] DIMM as eight 16Mbit [megabit] chips




So, my question is what should I be looking for when trying to buy 128MB (2x64MB) of SDRAM for my system? Do I want single-sided or double-sided RAM? How many chips should be on the stick? Or should I just stick with SIMM and get 128MB (4x32MB) of SIMM?










share|improve this question







New contributor




Rocket Hazmat is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I hope this is the right place to ask this and that it is "retro" enough. I have a Socket 7 machine that I am working on. It's my 1st PC from childhood that I restored, and now I would like to upgrade it.



The system is a FIC VT-502 with a Cyrix 6x86MX PR166 and (currently) 48MB of SIMM memory. The motherboard supports both EDO SIMM and SDRAM DIMM, as seen here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Socket_7_Builds#Choosing_RAM



I want to upgrade to using 128MB of RAM and, if possible, use SDRAM (because I can, and because it seems to be cheaper). I found some SDRAM on a site called MemoryX (or MemoryTen), but when I installed it, each stick was only read as 16MB, for a total of 32MB! Here's what I bought, claiming to be 64MB each stick: https://photos.app.goo.gl/SurvJWmKxdrPbZ5Q8



Doing some research, I found http://redhill.net.au/b/b-98.html#ram which explains this issue:




most older mainboards do not understand 64Mbit [megabit] chips and see a standard 64MB [megabyte] DIMM as eight 16Mbit [megabit] chips




So, my question is what should I be looking for when trying to buy 128MB (2x64MB) of SDRAM for my system? Do I want single-sided or double-sided RAM? How many chips should be on the stick? Or should I just stick with SIMM and get 128MB (4x32MB) of SIMM?







hardware memory






share|improve this question







New contributor




Rocket Hazmat is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




Rocket Hazmat is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









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Rocket Hazmat is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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New contributor





Rocket Hazmat is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 1




    Is your BIOS the latest version for your motherboard?
    – traal
    3 hours ago










  • @traal Yes, it seems to be. I got the latest from: fic.com.tw/support/motherboard/bios/pre/vt-502_bios.aspx
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago










  • @traal I am actually currently on a newer version than that one, that I found at: ftp.fic.com.tw/motherboard/bios/socket7/vt-502/y2k
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    If the problem is that the MOBO designer didn't bother with traces to connect address lines that would never have been used with the RAM sticks available at that time, updating the BIOS isn't going to help!
    – alephzero
    2 hours ago










  • @alephzero I guess that's a problem with these old boards. I had a similar issue with the hard drive. Anything bigger than 32GB will make the system hang on boot (or when the BIOS scans the drive). I had to use a 40GB HDD that had a jumper setting to allow me to limit it to 32GB.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    2 hours ago












  • 1




    Is your BIOS the latest version for your motherboard?
    – traal
    3 hours ago










  • @traal Yes, it seems to be. I got the latest from: fic.com.tw/support/motherboard/bios/pre/vt-502_bios.aspx
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago










  • @traal I am actually currently on a newer version than that one, that I found at: ftp.fic.com.tw/motherboard/bios/socket7/vt-502/y2k
    – Rocket Hazmat
    3 hours ago






  • 1




    If the problem is that the MOBO designer didn't bother with traces to connect address lines that would never have been used with the RAM sticks available at that time, updating the BIOS isn't going to help!
    – alephzero
    2 hours ago










  • @alephzero I guess that's a problem with these old boards. I had a similar issue with the hard drive. Anything bigger than 32GB will make the system hang on boot (or when the BIOS scans the drive). I had to use a 40GB HDD that had a jumper setting to allow me to limit it to 32GB.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    2 hours ago







1




1




Is your BIOS the latest version for your motherboard?
– traal
3 hours ago




Is your BIOS the latest version for your motherboard?
– traal
3 hours ago












@traal Yes, it seems to be. I got the latest from: fic.com.tw/support/motherboard/bios/pre/vt-502_bios.aspx
– Rocket Hazmat
3 hours ago




@traal Yes, it seems to be. I got the latest from: fic.com.tw/support/motherboard/bios/pre/vt-502_bios.aspx
– Rocket Hazmat
3 hours ago












@traal I am actually currently on a newer version than that one, that I found at: ftp.fic.com.tw/motherboard/bios/socket7/vt-502/y2k
– Rocket Hazmat
3 hours ago




@traal I am actually currently on a newer version than that one, that I found at: ftp.fic.com.tw/motherboard/bios/socket7/vt-502/y2k
– Rocket Hazmat
3 hours ago




1




1




If the problem is that the MOBO designer didn't bother with traces to connect address lines that would never have been used with the RAM sticks available at that time, updating the BIOS isn't going to help!
– alephzero
2 hours ago




If the problem is that the MOBO designer didn't bother with traces to connect address lines that would never have been used with the RAM sticks available at that time, updating the BIOS isn't going to help!
– alephzero
2 hours ago












@alephzero I guess that's a problem with these old boards. I had a similar issue with the hard drive. Anything bigger than 32GB will make the system hang on boot (or when the BIOS scans the drive). I had to use a 40GB HDD that had a jumper setting to allow me to limit it to 32GB.
– Rocket Hazmat
2 hours ago




@alephzero I guess that's a problem with these old boards. I had a similar issue with the hard drive. Anything bigger than 32GB will make the system hang on boot (or when the BIOS scans the drive). I had to use a 40GB HDD that had a jumper setting to allow me to limit it to 32GB.
– Rocket Hazmat
2 hours ago










1 Answer
1






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votes

















up vote
3
down vote













The change from DRAM to SDRAM changed how addresses are communicated from the processor to the RAM. In DRAM, addresses are divided up as a row and column address, each using roughly half the bits supported by the chip. The row is sent whenever it changes and the column for every access; its an arrangement designed to reduce the number of address pins required for any given address space.



In SDRAM an extra part is added, the bank address. This address usually has only a few bits, and in small DIMMs is entirely unused. However, starting at 32MiB there are no longer enough address lines on a DIMM to work with just row and column addresses, so the system must use bank addresses. As the specification supports up to 4 banks, this means 64MiB is the largest 168 pin DIMM available.



What this means is that early machines that supported DIMMs but weren't designed with this kind of memory size in mind only implemented the logic to work with a single bank, so could only use up to 16MiB per DIMM. This was likely especially common on boards that also supported SIMMs, simply because then the way of working with the two types of memory is more similar.






share|improve this answer




















  • So, when my board claims to support 128MB of RAM, it was referring to using SIMM not SDRAM DIMM?
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    Yes, probably. 128MiB is 4x32MiB, which is the maximum size of a 72 pin SIMM, so assuming you have 4 SIMM slots this is probably what they meant.
    – Jules
    1 hour ago










  • The board has 4 SIMM slots and 2 DIMM slots. I have sourced 128MB of SIMM (4x32MB), so that may be what I need to use.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago










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1 Answer
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active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
3
down vote













The change from DRAM to SDRAM changed how addresses are communicated from the processor to the RAM. In DRAM, addresses are divided up as a row and column address, each using roughly half the bits supported by the chip. The row is sent whenever it changes and the column for every access; its an arrangement designed to reduce the number of address pins required for any given address space.



In SDRAM an extra part is added, the bank address. This address usually has only a few bits, and in small DIMMs is entirely unused. However, starting at 32MiB there are no longer enough address lines on a DIMM to work with just row and column addresses, so the system must use bank addresses. As the specification supports up to 4 banks, this means 64MiB is the largest 168 pin DIMM available.



What this means is that early machines that supported DIMMs but weren't designed with this kind of memory size in mind only implemented the logic to work with a single bank, so could only use up to 16MiB per DIMM. This was likely especially common on boards that also supported SIMMs, simply because then the way of working with the two types of memory is more similar.






share|improve this answer




















  • So, when my board claims to support 128MB of RAM, it was referring to using SIMM not SDRAM DIMM?
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    Yes, probably. 128MiB is 4x32MiB, which is the maximum size of a 72 pin SIMM, so assuming you have 4 SIMM slots this is probably what they meant.
    – Jules
    1 hour ago










  • The board has 4 SIMM slots and 2 DIMM slots. I have sourced 128MB of SIMM (4x32MB), so that may be what I need to use.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago














up vote
3
down vote













The change from DRAM to SDRAM changed how addresses are communicated from the processor to the RAM. In DRAM, addresses are divided up as a row and column address, each using roughly half the bits supported by the chip. The row is sent whenever it changes and the column for every access; its an arrangement designed to reduce the number of address pins required for any given address space.



In SDRAM an extra part is added, the bank address. This address usually has only a few bits, and in small DIMMs is entirely unused. However, starting at 32MiB there are no longer enough address lines on a DIMM to work with just row and column addresses, so the system must use bank addresses. As the specification supports up to 4 banks, this means 64MiB is the largest 168 pin DIMM available.



What this means is that early machines that supported DIMMs but weren't designed with this kind of memory size in mind only implemented the logic to work with a single bank, so could only use up to 16MiB per DIMM. This was likely especially common on boards that also supported SIMMs, simply because then the way of working with the two types of memory is more similar.






share|improve this answer




















  • So, when my board claims to support 128MB of RAM, it was referring to using SIMM not SDRAM DIMM?
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    Yes, probably. 128MiB is 4x32MiB, which is the maximum size of a 72 pin SIMM, so assuming you have 4 SIMM slots this is probably what they meant.
    – Jules
    1 hour ago










  • The board has 4 SIMM slots and 2 DIMM slots. I have sourced 128MB of SIMM (4x32MB), so that may be what I need to use.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago












up vote
3
down vote










up vote
3
down vote









The change from DRAM to SDRAM changed how addresses are communicated from the processor to the RAM. In DRAM, addresses are divided up as a row and column address, each using roughly half the bits supported by the chip. The row is sent whenever it changes and the column for every access; its an arrangement designed to reduce the number of address pins required for any given address space.



In SDRAM an extra part is added, the bank address. This address usually has only a few bits, and in small DIMMs is entirely unused. However, starting at 32MiB there are no longer enough address lines on a DIMM to work with just row and column addresses, so the system must use bank addresses. As the specification supports up to 4 banks, this means 64MiB is the largest 168 pin DIMM available.



What this means is that early machines that supported DIMMs but weren't designed with this kind of memory size in mind only implemented the logic to work with a single bank, so could only use up to 16MiB per DIMM. This was likely especially common on boards that also supported SIMMs, simply because then the way of working with the two types of memory is more similar.






share|improve this answer












The change from DRAM to SDRAM changed how addresses are communicated from the processor to the RAM. In DRAM, addresses are divided up as a row and column address, each using roughly half the bits supported by the chip. The row is sent whenever it changes and the column for every access; its an arrangement designed to reduce the number of address pins required for any given address space.



In SDRAM an extra part is added, the bank address. This address usually has only a few bits, and in small DIMMs is entirely unused. However, starting at 32MiB there are no longer enough address lines on a DIMM to work with just row and column addresses, so the system must use bank addresses. As the specification supports up to 4 banks, this means 64MiB is the largest 168 pin DIMM available.



What this means is that early machines that supported DIMMs but weren't designed with this kind of memory size in mind only implemented the logic to work with a single bank, so could only use up to 16MiB per DIMM. This was likely especially common on boards that also supported SIMMs, simply because then the way of working with the two types of memory is more similar.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered 1 hour ago









Jules

8,06322142




8,06322142











  • So, when my board claims to support 128MB of RAM, it was referring to using SIMM not SDRAM DIMM?
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    Yes, probably. 128MiB is 4x32MiB, which is the maximum size of a 72 pin SIMM, so assuming you have 4 SIMM slots this is probably what they meant.
    – Jules
    1 hour ago










  • The board has 4 SIMM slots and 2 DIMM slots. I have sourced 128MB of SIMM (4x32MB), so that may be what I need to use.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago
















  • So, when my board claims to support 128MB of RAM, it was referring to using SIMM not SDRAM DIMM?
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago






  • 1




    Yes, probably. 128MiB is 4x32MiB, which is the maximum size of a 72 pin SIMM, so assuming you have 4 SIMM slots this is probably what they meant.
    – Jules
    1 hour ago










  • The board has 4 SIMM slots and 2 DIMM slots. I have sourced 128MB of SIMM (4x32MB), so that may be what I need to use.
    – Rocket Hazmat
    1 hour ago















So, when my board claims to support 128MB of RAM, it was referring to using SIMM not SDRAM DIMM?
– Rocket Hazmat
1 hour ago




So, when my board claims to support 128MB of RAM, it was referring to using SIMM not SDRAM DIMM?
– Rocket Hazmat
1 hour ago




1




1




Yes, probably. 128MiB is 4x32MiB, which is the maximum size of a 72 pin SIMM, so assuming you have 4 SIMM slots this is probably what they meant.
– Jules
1 hour ago




Yes, probably. 128MiB is 4x32MiB, which is the maximum size of a 72 pin SIMM, so assuming you have 4 SIMM slots this is probably what they meant.
– Jules
1 hour ago












The board has 4 SIMM slots and 2 DIMM slots. I have sourced 128MB of SIMM (4x32MB), so that may be what I need to use.
– Rocket Hazmat
1 hour ago




The board has 4 SIMM slots and 2 DIMM slots. I have sourced 128MB of SIMM (4x32MB), so that may be what I need to use.
– Rocket Hazmat
1 hour ago










Rocket Hazmat is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









 

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