What really happened to the USS Voyager in “Living Witness”?

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In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.



In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.



This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.



The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.



However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.



What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?




I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).



I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.










share|improve this question























  • memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck” here.
    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 5 at 12:14






  • 6




    "The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:09






  • 1




    @OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
    – Foxy
    Sep 5 at 14:13






  • 1




    It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:23






  • 7




    @Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
    – Eric Towers
    Sep 5 at 15:53
















up vote
23
down vote

favorite
1












In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.



In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.



This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.



The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.



However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.



What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?




I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).



I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.










share|improve this question























  • memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck” here.
    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 5 at 12:14






  • 6




    "The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:09






  • 1




    @OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
    – Foxy
    Sep 5 at 14:13






  • 1




    It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:23






  • 7




    @Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
    – Eric Towers
    Sep 5 at 15:53












up vote
23
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
23
down vote

favorite
1






1





In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.



In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.



This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.



The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.



However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.



What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?




I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).



I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.










share|improve this question















In Star Trek: Voyager, episode 23 of season 4 (remember), the episode begins with a civilization unknown until now. They claim to hold the ruins of the USS Voyager, which has otherwise contributed to the history of this civilization in a negative way, whereby Captain Janeway formed an alliance with the enemies of the people in question.



In the historical reconstructions of this event, we see many parts belonging to the ship, such as the Doctor.



This one -- having been deactivated during all these years -- still seems to be several centuries ago. The Doctor is therefore considered as the last "living" witnesses of this war.



The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew. The Doctor has done everything to set the truth about that time, and finally, all ends well, history is approved.



However, what is really going on? In the other episodes, the Doctor is always present, as well as the crew members, and the USS Voyager. At the end of the series, they all return to Earth.



What about this episode that seems to be out of the scope of the story?




I couldn't find any explanation about this episode, except that we could consider it as a separate story, but it doesn't really make sense to put an episode that has nothing to do with it in the middle of the series (even if it's very good and fits in pretty well).



I don't think this question is a duplication of this post, because this one is about the whole episode, as well as what really happened to the crew.







star-trek star-trek-voyager






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













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edited Sep 5 at 11:26









TheLethalCarrot

32.5k13183225




32.5k13183225










asked Sep 5 at 11:22









Foxy

504138




504138











  • memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck” here.
    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 5 at 12:14






  • 6




    "The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:09






  • 1




    @OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
    – Foxy
    Sep 5 at 14:13






  • 1




    It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:23






  • 7




    @Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
    – Eric Towers
    Sep 5 at 15:53
















  • memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck” here.
    – Paul D. Waite
    Sep 5 at 12:14






  • 6




    "The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:09






  • 1




    @OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
    – Foxy
    Sep 5 at 14:13






  • 1




    It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
    – Organic Marble
    Sep 5 at 14:23






  • 7




    @Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
    – Eric Towers
    Sep 5 at 15:53















memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck” here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14




memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Witness_(episode)#Continuity — although it’s not conclusive, there’s no mention of the word “wreck” here.
– Paul D. Waite
Sep 5 at 12:14




6




6




"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09




"The USS Voyager was considered a heavily armed warship with a restless and violent crew" sounds pretty accurate to me.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:09




1




1




@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13




@OrganicMarble: The USS Voyager is not a warship, it is an intrepid class ship. It is relatively technologically advanced, but that does not make it a "heavily armed" ship, as the Kyrians claimed.
– Foxy
Sep 5 at 14:13




1




1




It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23




It was intended as a jest. This is my favorite episode of Voyager.
– Organic Marble
Sep 5 at 14:23




7




7




@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53




@Foxy : "Heavily armed" armed is context (and adversary) dependent. Compare/contrast TNG: The Outrageous Okona: "Lasers can't even penetrate our navigation shields. Don't they know that?".
– Eric Towers
Sep 5 at 15:53










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
37
down vote



accepted










Lets look at the transcript.



The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:




EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.




In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:




QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.




Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:




QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.




Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.



We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:




EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.




Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.



In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.






share|improve this answer





























    up vote
    15
    down vote













    I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.



    Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.



    Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?






    share|improve this answer


















    • 1




      I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
      – Foxy
      Sep 5 at 11:34






    • 5




      @Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
      – Mike Scott
      Sep 5 at 11:46






    • 3




      Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
      – TheLethalCarrot
      Sep 5 at 11:53







    • 1




      @Sharku It's possible!
      – Lightness Races in Orbit
      Sep 6 at 11:47






    • 1




      "L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
      – Lightness Races in Orbit
      Sep 6 at 11:47


















    up vote
    5
    down vote













    We will never know.



    That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.



    Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.



    (One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)



    What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.






    share|improve this answer



























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.



      2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).






      share|improve this answer




















      • Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
        – RDFozz
        Sep 10 at 22:06










      Your Answer







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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      37
      down vote



      accepted










      Lets look at the transcript.



      The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:




      EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
      QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.




      In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:




      QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
      VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.




      Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:




      QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.




      Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.



      We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:




      EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.




      Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.



      In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.






      share|improve this answer


























        up vote
        37
        down vote



        accepted










        Lets look at the transcript.



        The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:




        EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
        QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.




        In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:




        QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
        VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.




        Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:




        QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.




        Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.



        We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:




        EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.




        Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.



        In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.






        share|improve this answer
























          up vote
          37
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          37
          down vote



          accepted






          Lets look at the transcript.



          The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:




          EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
          QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.




          In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:




          QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
          VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.




          Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:




          QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.




          Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.



          We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:




          EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.




          Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.



          In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.






          share|improve this answer














          Lets look at the transcript.



          The Kyrians did not find a wreck of Voyager. They found a few relics and a partial blueprint:




          EMH: Evidence? What evidence? Like this, for example? Triple-armoured hull? Thirty torpedo tubes? Twenty five phaser banks? This isn't what our ship looked like.
          QUARREN: We reconstructed it from a partial schematic found in the Cyrik ocean, which was badly damaged by corrosion. We were bound to get a few details wrong.




          In fact, they had very little physical evidence, as an earlier conversation shows:




          QUARREN: Take a closer look. The evidence is all around you.
          VASKAN VISITOR: Some musty fossils and a recreation? That doesn't prove anything.




          Even a bit before that, we hear this little gem:




          QUARREN: We believe they had a complement of over three hundred soldiers.




          Three hundred soldier would be twice as much as Voyagers whole crew complement. Suffice to say, if they had found a wreck, they would have more accurate numbers.



          We do learn a little bit how they got into possession of some of the artifacts:




          EMH: That's the EMH backup module. One of your attack parties must have taken it from Sickbay.




          Later, we see the Doctors account how Voyager was boarded with those attack parties.



          In summary, Voyager was not destroyed. They took some pieces during the attack on Voyager. Some were lost and later re-discovered. They only had partial information, a partial plan of Voyager and constructed a narrative that fit with their world view.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Sep 6 at 10:37

























          answered Sep 5 at 12:13









          Polygnome

          1,051610




          1,051610






















              up vote
              15
              down vote













              I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.



              Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.



              Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?






              share|improve this answer


















              • 1




                I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
                – Foxy
                Sep 5 at 11:34






              • 5




                @Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
                – Mike Scott
                Sep 5 at 11:46






              • 3




                Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
                – TheLethalCarrot
                Sep 5 at 11:53







              • 1




                @Sharku It's possible!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47






              • 1




                "L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47















              up vote
              15
              down vote













              I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.



              Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.



              Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?






              share|improve this answer


















              • 1




                I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
                – Foxy
                Sep 5 at 11:34






              • 5




                @Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
                – Mike Scott
                Sep 5 at 11:46






              • 3




                Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
                – TheLethalCarrot
                Sep 5 at 11:53







              • 1




                @Sharku It's possible!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47






              • 1




                "L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47













              up vote
              15
              down vote










              up vote
              15
              down vote









              I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.



              Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.



              Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?






              share|improve this answer














              I thought they only found a EMH backup module of the doctor. Like it says in the the post you linked to.



              Since it is a backup the real one is still on board of the "real" Voyager as is the whole crew. So I think in the end the backup Doctor returned to Earth over 700 years after the return of the real voyager probably even meeting the real one.



              Besides they just found some pieces of Voyager that gave them the room to the assumption that Voyager was a bad ass war ship with how many was it? 20 Phase Cannons?







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Sep 5 at 11:52









              TheLethalCarrot

              32.5k13183225




              32.5k13183225










              answered Sep 5 at 11:31









              Sharku

              2597




              2597







              • 1




                I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
                – Foxy
                Sep 5 at 11:34






              • 5




                @Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
                – Mike Scott
                Sep 5 at 11:46






              • 3




                Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
                – TheLethalCarrot
                Sep 5 at 11:53







              • 1




                @Sharku It's possible!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47






              • 1




                "L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47













              • 1




                I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
                – Foxy
                Sep 5 at 11:34






              • 5




                @Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
                – Mike Scott
                Sep 5 at 11:46






              • 3




                Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
                – TheLethalCarrot
                Sep 5 at 11:53







              • 1




                @Sharku It's possible!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47






              • 1




                "L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
                – Lightness Races in Orbit
                Sep 6 at 11:47








              1




              1




              I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
              – Foxy
              Sep 5 at 11:34




              I understand that this may be a copy of the Doctor (even if I don't remember it), but I do remember that the people in question mentioned having the wreck of Voyager? Maybe I missed an episode....
              – Foxy
              Sep 5 at 11:34




              5




              5




              @Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
              – Mike Scott
              Sep 5 at 11:46




              @Foxy I believe you have misremembered the episode. They only have a few Voyager relics on the planet, like the EMH backup module and a medical tricorder, not the wreck of the ship itself.
              – Mike Scott
              Sep 5 at 11:46




              3




              3




              Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
              – TheLethalCarrot
              Sep 5 at 11:53





              Don't need to include "Edit" headings we can tell from the revision history.
              – TheLethalCarrot
              Sep 5 at 11:53





              1




              1




              @Sharku It's possible!
              – Lightness Races in Orbit
              Sep 6 at 11:47




              @Sharku It's possible!
              – Lightness Races in Orbit
              Sep 6 at 11:47




              1




              1




              "L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
              – Lightness Races in Orbit
              Sep 6 at 11:47





              "L'Hologramme Médical d'Urgence" I like it!
              – Lightness Races in Orbit
              Sep 6 at 11:47











              up vote
              5
              down vote













              We will never know.



              That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.



              Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.



              (One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)



              What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.






              share|improve this answer
























                up vote
                5
                down vote













                We will never know.



                That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.



                Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.



                (One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)



                What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.






                share|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  5
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  5
                  down vote









                  We will never know.



                  That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.



                  Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.



                  (One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)



                  What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.






                  share|improve this answer












                  We will never know.



                  That's the thing with history — it's all an interpretation, told through someone else's hazy memories. Be it the Kyrians with their politicised and time-ravaged storytelling, or the backup EMH who we can generally understand to be truthful but is still just one person with one person's point of view.



                  Arguably, this interesting facet of life was the entire point of that story, and that story is made all the stronger by the fact that we are never shown first-hand the events of that period.



                  (One could argue that we are supposed to take the backup EMH's holodeck recreation at face value, but he himself admitted in dialogue that he had to extrapolate in a few places, so y'know.)



                  What we do know, however, is that neither the "original" EMH nor Voyager herself were ever left behind on Kyria (and the episode doesn't claim otherwise; you've misremembered it). That's why we continue to see both entities throughout the remainder of the series. The parts of Voyager that you see in the episode were recreations on a futuristic holodeck.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Sep 5 at 12:27









                  Lightness Races in Orbit

                  9,39733463




                  9,39733463




















                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.



                      2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).






                      share|improve this answer




















                      • Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
                        – RDFozz
                        Sep 10 at 22:06














                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.



                      2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).






                      share|improve this answer




















                      • Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
                        – RDFozz
                        Sep 10 at 22:06












                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote









                      1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.



                      2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).






                      share|improve this answer












                      1st most likely possibility: It stands to reason that this was an alternate universe and version of Voyager that didn't reach the Alpha Quadrant. Mirror-Mirror was one of the Original STs episodes that carried over to ST DS9, ST Discovery, ST TNG, and Enterprise but not "apparently" to Voyager.



                      2nd possibility: There was an Episode (Ep. 37, Deadlock) in which Voyager travels through a spacial Rift, thereby creating a second Voyager, with an identical crew, that later self destructs to save it's twin Voyager from a Vidian attack. They may have unwittingly went through another Rift and created a third Voyager on a separate occasion without ever noticing it (as in Deadlock Capt Janeway and Torres only realize there was another voyager due to a power drain during the Vidian attack, after Kes steps onto the other ship mistakenly).







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Sep 10 at 21:06









                      davidLeak

                      113




                      113











                      • Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
                        – RDFozz
                        Sep 10 at 22:06
















                      • Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
                        – RDFozz
                        Sep 10 at 22:06















                      Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
                      – RDFozz
                      Sep 10 at 22:06




                      Welcome to SFF.SE! These explanations could account for the actions of the Voyager crew as shown in the Kyrian recreations, based on that race's belief about what happened 700 years ago. The backup of the Doctor claims, instead, that the Kyrian recreations are simply wrong - something that casts their ancestors in a better light. From what the Doctor's backup remembers, the Kyrians were the aggressors. If we accept that, we don't need to suppose an unusual situation that's not mentioned (Mirror U episodes don't leave us guessing, normally).
                      – RDFozz
                      Sep 10 at 22:06

















                       

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