relation of piano string length to pitch?

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I had erroneously believed that piano pitch was directly related to string length. What string length is necessary to create the lowest pitch on an 88-key piano (the low A)? With string lengths varying from piano to piano, i.e., from baby grand all the way to concert grand, how is it that pitches stay the same?










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    As a matter of comparison, if you look at a guitar the strings will cover 2 octaves (E2–E4) but all the strings are (usually) the same length.
    – Dietrich Epp
    Aug 31 at 19:48














up vote
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down vote

favorite
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I had erroneously believed that piano pitch was directly related to string length. What string length is necessary to create the lowest pitch on an 88-key piano (the low A)? With string lengths varying from piano to piano, i.e., from baby grand all the way to concert grand, how is it that pitches stay the same?










share|improve this question

















  • 1




    As a matter of comparison, if you look at a guitar the strings will cover 2 octaves (E2–E4) but all the strings are (usually) the same length.
    – Dietrich Epp
    Aug 31 at 19:48












up vote
6
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
6
down vote

favorite
1






1





I had erroneously believed that piano pitch was directly related to string length. What string length is necessary to create the lowest pitch on an 88-key piano (the low A)? With string lengths varying from piano to piano, i.e., from baby grand all the way to concert grand, how is it that pitches stay the same?










share|improve this question













I had erroneously believed that piano pitch was directly related to string length. What string length is necessary to create the lowest pitch on an 88-key piano (the low A)? With string lengths varying from piano to piano, i.e., from baby grand all the way to concert grand, how is it that pitches stay the same?







piano pitch






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asked Aug 31 at 13:58









liz Lupien

311




311







  • 1




    As a matter of comparison, if you look at a guitar the strings will cover 2 octaves (E2–E4) but all the strings are (usually) the same length.
    – Dietrich Epp
    Aug 31 at 19:48












  • 1




    As a matter of comparison, if you look at a guitar the strings will cover 2 octaves (E2–E4) but all the strings are (usually) the same length.
    – Dietrich Epp
    Aug 31 at 19:48







1




1




As a matter of comparison, if you look at a guitar the strings will cover 2 octaves (E2–E4) but all the strings are (usually) the same length.
– Dietrich Epp
Aug 31 at 19:48




As a matter of comparison, if you look at a guitar the strings will cover 2 octaves (E2–E4) but all the strings are (usually) the same length.
– Dietrich Epp
Aug 31 at 19:48










3 Answers
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The frequency of a vibrating string is primarily based on three factors:



  • The sounding length (longer is lower, shorter is higher)

  • The tension on the string (more tension is higher, less is lower)

  • The mass of the string, normally based on a uniform density per unit length (higher mass is lower, lower mass is higher)

To make a shorter string (such as in an upright piano) sound the same fundamental frequency as a longer string (such as in a 9' grand piano), either the thickness of the string must be increased (which increases the density and the mass) or the tension must be decreased, and usually it's a bit of both.



Thicker strings are often stiffer and that creates more inharmonic partials, and lower tension is associated with other problems, so the best way to make a string sound lower is the make it longer, but it is not practical to make a piano from strings that are all the same density and tension, because the lowest strings would have to be ridiculously long. Nine feet is already a great demand on space for a single musical instrument, and of course those pianos are extremely expensive and difficult to move.



Further reading:



Shape of a concert harp



http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/string.html



https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/strings.html






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    To a degree you're correct. The shortest strings on any piano tend to be for the high notes, and the longest strings produce the lowest notes. But that's not enough. The tension on piano strings doesn't vary tremendously from the high to the low, so apart from length of string, the mass comes into play, so to speak.



    The highest strings are just a single strand, although there are usually three of them, whereas the lowest strings are a single strand that has other wire wrapped round, creating a much thicker, heavier string. This gets round the problem, as well as a lot of pianos being overstrung, where the low sounding strings go diagonally across the soundboard, thus making them as long as possible, so they don't need to be quite so thick, or floppy, as they would on older, cheaper (studio) pianos, which had strings that only stretched from top to bottom.






    share|improve this answer



























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      If you want to be precise, pitch is inversely, but not solely related to length. (Inversely rather than directly, because as length increases, pitch decreases.)



      As you say, this becomes obvious when you consider a full concert grand plays the same notes as a mini-piano (barring a few extra low ones). And when you consider that we tune a piano by adjusting tension rather than by chopping bits off the length of the strings.



      Pitch is related to length, weight and tension. In practice, of course, we vary all three in the design, adjust just the tension thereafter.






      share|improve this answer






















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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes








        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









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        active

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        up vote
        10
        down vote













        The frequency of a vibrating string is primarily based on three factors:



        • The sounding length (longer is lower, shorter is higher)

        • The tension on the string (more tension is higher, less is lower)

        • The mass of the string, normally based on a uniform density per unit length (higher mass is lower, lower mass is higher)

        To make a shorter string (such as in an upright piano) sound the same fundamental frequency as a longer string (such as in a 9' grand piano), either the thickness of the string must be increased (which increases the density and the mass) or the tension must be decreased, and usually it's a bit of both.



        Thicker strings are often stiffer and that creates more inharmonic partials, and lower tension is associated with other problems, so the best way to make a string sound lower is the make it longer, but it is not practical to make a piano from strings that are all the same density and tension, because the lowest strings would have to be ridiculously long. Nine feet is already a great demand on space for a single musical instrument, and of course those pianos are extremely expensive and difficult to move.



        Further reading:



        Shape of a concert harp



        http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/string.html



        https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/strings.html






        share|improve this answer


























          up vote
          10
          down vote













          The frequency of a vibrating string is primarily based on three factors:



          • The sounding length (longer is lower, shorter is higher)

          • The tension on the string (more tension is higher, less is lower)

          • The mass of the string, normally based on a uniform density per unit length (higher mass is lower, lower mass is higher)

          To make a shorter string (such as in an upright piano) sound the same fundamental frequency as a longer string (such as in a 9' grand piano), either the thickness of the string must be increased (which increases the density and the mass) or the tension must be decreased, and usually it's a bit of both.



          Thicker strings are often stiffer and that creates more inharmonic partials, and lower tension is associated with other problems, so the best way to make a string sound lower is the make it longer, but it is not practical to make a piano from strings that are all the same density and tension, because the lowest strings would have to be ridiculously long. Nine feet is already a great demand on space for a single musical instrument, and of course those pianos are extremely expensive and difficult to move.



          Further reading:



          Shape of a concert harp



          http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/string.html



          https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/strings.html






          share|improve this answer
























            up vote
            10
            down vote










            up vote
            10
            down vote









            The frequency of a vibrating string is primarily based on three factors:



            • The sounding length (longer is lower, shorter is higher)

            • The tension on the string (more tension is higher, less is lower)

            • The mass of the string, normally based on a uniform density per unit length (higher mass is lower, lower mass is higher)

            To make a shorter string (such as in an upright piano) sound the same fundamental frequency as a longer string (such as in a 9' grand piano), either the thickness of the string must be increased (which increases the density and the mass) or the tension must be decreased, and usually it's a bit of both.



            Thicker strings are often stiffer and that creates more inharmonic partials, and lower tension is associated with other problems, so the best way to make a string sound lower is the make it longer, but it is not practical to make a piano from strings that are all the same density and tension, because the lowest strings would have to be ridiculously long. Nine feet is already a great demand on space for a single musical instrument, and of course those pianos are extremely expensive and difficult to move.



            Further reading:



            Shape of a concert harp



            http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/string.html



            https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/strings.html






            share|improve this answer














            The frequency of a vibrating string is primarily based on three factors:



            • The sounding length (longer is lower, shorter is higher)

            • The tension on the string (more tension is higher, less is lower)

            • The mass of the string, normally based on a uniform density per unit length (higher mass is lower, lower mass is higher)

            To make a shorter string (such as in an upright piano) sound the same fundamental frequency as a longer string (such as in a 9' grand piano), either the thickness of the string must be increased (which increases the density and the mass) or the tension must be decreased, and usually it's a bit of both.



            Thicker strings are often stiffer and that creates more inharmonic partials, and lower tension is associated with other problems, so the best way to make a string sound lower is the make it longer, but it is not practical to make a piano from strings that are all the same density and tension, because the lowest strings would have to be ridiculously long. Nine feet is already a great demand on space for a single musical instrument, and of course those pianos are extremely expensive and difficult to move.



            Further reading:



            Shape of a concert harp



            http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/string.html



            https://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/strings.html







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Aug 31 at 18:49

























            answered Aug 31 at 14:25









            Todd Wilcox

            32.5k256109




            32.5k256109




















                up vote
                2
                down vote













                To a degree you're correct. The shortest strings on any piano tend to be for the high notes, and the longest strings produce the lowest notes. But that's not enough. The tension on piano strings doesn't vary tremendously from the high to the low, so apart from length of string, the mass comes into play, so to speak.



                The highest strings are just a single strand, although there are usually three of them, whereas the lowest strings are a single strand that has other wire wrapped round, creating a much thicker, heavier string. This gets round the problem, as well as a lot of pianos being overstrung, where the low sounding strings go diagonally across the soundboard, thus making them as long as possible, so they don't need to be quite so thick, or floppy, as they would on older, cheaper (studio) pianos, which had strings that only stretched from top to bottom.






                share|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote













                  To a degree you're correct. The shortest strings on any piano tend to be for the high notes, and the longest strings produce the lowest notes. But that's not enough. The tension on piano strings doesn't vary tremendously from the high to the low, so apart from length of string, the mass comes into play, so to speak.



                  The highest strings are just a single strand, although there are usually three of them, whereas the lowest strings are a single strand that has other wire wrapped round, creating a much thicker, heavier string. This gets round the problem, as well as a lot of pianos being overstrung, where the low sounding strings go diagonally across the soundboard, thus making them as long as possible, so they don't need to be quite so thick, or floppy, as they would on older, cheaper (studio) pianos, which had strings that only stretched from top to bottom.






                  share|improve this answer






















                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    2
                    down vote









                    To a degree you're correct. The shortest strings on any piano tend to be for the high notes, and the longest strings produce the lowest notes. But that's not enough. The tension on piano strings doesn't vary tremendously from the high to the low, so apart from length of string, the mass comes into play, so to speak.



                    The highest strings are just a single strand, although there are usually three of them, whereas the lowest strings are a single strand that has other wire wrapped round, creating a much thicker, heavier string. This gets round the problem, as well as a lot of pianos being overstrung, where the low sounding strings go diagonally across the soundboard, thus making them as long as possible, so they don't need to be quite so thick, or floppy, as they would on older, cheaper (studio) pianos, which had strings that only stretched from top to bottom.






                    share|improve this answer












                    To a degree you're correct. The shortest strings on any piano tend to be for the high notes, and the longest strings produce the lowest notes. But that's not enough. The tension on piano strings doesn't vary tremendously from the high to the low, so apart from length of string, the mass comes into play, so to speak.



                    The highest strings are just a single strand, although there are usually three of them, whereas the lowest strings are a single strand that has other wire wrapped round, creating a much thicker, heavier string. This gets round the problem, as well as a lot of pianos being overstrung, where the low sounding strings go diagonally across the soundboard, thus making them as long as possible, so they don't need to be quite so thick, or floppy, as they would on older, cheaper (studio) pianos, which had strings that only stretched from top to bottom.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Aug 31 at 16:08









                    Tim

                    89.3k1091226




                    89.3k1091226




















                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        If you want to be precise, pitch is inversely, but not solely related to length. (Inversely rather than directly, because as length increases, pitch decreases.)



                        As you say, this becomes obvious when you consider a full concert grand plays the same notes as a mini-piano (barring a few extra low ones). And when you consider that we tune a piano by adjusting tension rather than by chopping bits off the length of the strings.



                        Pitch is related to length, weight and tension. In practice, of course, we vary all three in the design, adjust just the tension thereafter.






                        share|improve this answer


























                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          If you want to be precise, pitch is inversely, but not solely related to length. (Inversely rather than directly, because as length increases, pitch decreases.)



                          As you say, this becomes obvious when you consider a full concert grand plays the same notes as a mini-piano (barring a few extra low ones). And when you consider that we tune a piano by adjusting tension rather than by chopping bits off the length of the strings.



                          Pitch is related to length, weight and tension. In practice, of course, we vary all three in the design, adjust just the tension thereafter.






                          share|improve this answer
























                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote









                            If you want to be precise, pitch is inversely, but not solely related to length. (Inversely rather than directly, because as length increases, pitch decreases.)



                            As you say, this becomes obvious when you consider a full concert grand plays the same notes as a mini-piano (barring a few extra low ones). And when you consider that we tune a piano by adjusting tension rather than by chopping bits off the length of the strings.



                            Pitch is related to length, weight and tension. In practice, of course, we vary all three in the design, adjust just the tension thereafter.






                            share|improve this answer














                            If you want to be precise, pitch is inversely, but not solely related to length. (Inversely rather than directly, because as length increases, pitch decreases.)



                            As you say, this becomes obvious when you consider a full concert grand plays the same notes as a mini-piano (barring a few extra low ones). And when you consider that we tune a piano by adjusting tension rather than by chopping bits off the length of the strings.



                            Pitch is related to length, weight and tension. In practice, of course, we vary all three in the design, adjust just the tension thereafter.







                            share|improve this answer














                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer








                            edited Aug 31 at 20:45

























                            answered Aug 31 at 14:40









                            Laurence Payne

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