On the board: white king vs. black king with knight and rook. Could checkmate be done without the black king’s help?
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Just something I randomly came up with. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
theory checkmate
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
add a comment |
Just something I randomly came up with. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
theory checkmate
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
Close voters: IMHO (which as always could be wrong) this question is not too broad. It could benefit from a picture, perhaps, but it sounds like a standard endgame-style question. (i.e. "Can King and Rook draw vs King and Queen?"). The location of the pieces is assumed to not have any immediate tactics.
– Brandon_J
Feb 25 at 3:58
add a comment |
Just something I randomly came up with. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
theory checkmate
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
Just something I randomly came up with. Sorry if it is a duplicate.
theory checkmate
theory checkmate
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
edited Feb 25 at 22:36
Brandon_J
68616
68616
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
asked Feb 24 at 20:37
Rewan DemontayRewan Demontay
455215
455215
Close voters: IMHO (which as always could be wrong) this question is not too broad. It could benefit from a picture, perhaps, but it sounds like a standard endgame-style question. (i.e. "Can King and Rook draw vs King and Queen?"). The location of the pieces is assumed to not have any immediate tactics.
– Brandon_J
Feb 25 at 3:58
add a comment |
Close voters: IMHO (which as always could be wrong) this question is not too broad. It could benefit from a picture, perhaps, but it sounds like a standard endgame-style question. (i.e. "Can King and Rook draw vs King and Queen?"). The location of the pieces is assumed to not have any immediate tactics.
– Brandon_J
Feb 25 at 3:58
Close voters: IMHO (which as always could be wrong) this question is not too broad. It could benefit from a picture, perhaps, but it sounds like a standard endgame-style question. (i.e. "Can King and Rook draw vs King and Queen?"). The location of the pieces is assumed to not have any immediate tactics.
– Brandon_J
Feb 25 at 3:58
Close voters: IMHO (which as always could be wrong) this question is not too broad. It could benefit from a picture, perhaps, but it sounds like a standard endgame-style question. (i.e. "Can King and Rook draw vs King and Queen?"). The location of the pieces is assumed to not have any immediate tactics.
– Brandon_J
Feb 25 at 3:58
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
I don't think it is possible to forcibly mate the king with rook and knight only.
Proof: The only mating position is with the black king in a corner, the rook giving check from an adjecent square and the knight protecting the rook and covering the escape square.
For simplicity let's say Ka1, Rb1, Nc3. There are 7 other equivalent positions to this one.
If you retro-analyze the position the last move must have been with the rook along the b file from somewhere between b3 and b8. For the folowing analysis it does not matter from where it came.
Then what was black's last move? It certainly was a king move moving from a2, b2 or b1 to the corner (a1). However, since black was not forced to move the king to the corner but could have moved to a3 or c1 (or to b3 if the rook was standing there), the mate cannot be forced.
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
3
For completeness, I guess you have to analyze the possibility that the rook came from b3 preventing Ka3. Of course, then Kxb3 would have been possible.
– D M
Feb 24 at 21:15
add a comment |
The knight would have to go to c3, and then the king's only move is a1. Then Rb1 or Ra2 mate, the Arabian mate.
But on 1.Nc3+, the king can go to a3. It can't go to the b-file, because we've assumed a rook is on b8. A similar argument holds for if the king starts on b1, with a rook on h2.
Had a king been on c4, 1.Nc3+ Ka3 2.Rb3#. Therefore, a king is necessary.
P.S. The Arabian mate is so-called because it exists from the times of Chaturanga (500 A.D.)! The rook, knight and king have always been able to move the same.
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
add a comment |
It's likely not a win, assuming White plays rationally. While it is possible to set up a checkmate position (e.g., knight on c3, rook on a2, White king on a1), Black shouldn't be able to force White into this position. The knight and rook can't control enough squares in their immediate vicinity to create a box and successfully push the White king back.
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
I don't think it is possible to forcibly mate the king with rook and knight only.
Proof: The only mating position is with the black king in a corner, the rook giving check from an adjecent square and the knight protecting the rook and covering the escape square.
For simplicity let's say Ka1, Rb1, Nc3. There are 7 other equivalent positions to this one.
If you retro-analyze the position the last move must have been with the rook along the b file from somewhere between b3 and b8. For the folowing analysis it does not matter from where it came.
Then what was black's last move? It certainly was a king move moving from a2, b2 or b1 to the corner (a1). However, since black was not forced to move the king to the corner but could have moved to a3 or c1 (or to b3 if the rook was standing there), the mate cannot be forced.
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
3
For completeness, I guess you have to analyze the possibility that the rook came from b3 preventing Ka3. Of course, then Kxb3 would have been possible.
– D M
Feb 24 at 21:15
add a comment |
I don't think it is possible to forcibly mate the king with rook and knight only.
Proof: The only mating position is with the black king in a corner, the rook giving check from an adjecent square and the knight protecting the rook and covering the escape square.
For simplicity let's say Ka1, Rb1, Nc3. There are 7 other equivalent positions to this one.
If you retro-analyze the position the last move must have been with the rook along the b file from somewhere between b3 and b8. For the folowing analysis it does not matter from where it came.
Then what was black's last move? It certainly was a king move moving from a2, b2 or b1 to the corner (a1). However, since black was not forced to move the king to the corner but could have moved to a3 or c1 (or to b3 if the rook was standing there), the mate cannot be forced.
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
3
For completeness, I guess you have to analyze the possibility that the rook came from b3 preventing Ka3. Of course, then Kxb3 would have been possible.
– D M
Feb 24 at 21:15
add a comment |
I don't think it is possible to forcibly mate the king with rook and knight only.
Proof: The only mating position is with the black king in a corner, the rook giving check from an adjecent square and the knight protecting the rook and covering the escape square.
For simplicity let's say Ka1, Rb1, Nc3. There are 7 other equivalent positions to this one.
If you retro-analyze the position the last move must have been with the rook along the b file from somewhere between b3 and b8. For the folowing analysis it does not matter from where it came.
Then what was black's last move? It certainly was a king move moving from a2, b2 or b1 to the corner (a1). However, since black was not forced to move the king to the corner but could have moved to a3 or c1 (or to b3 if the rook was standing there), the mate cannot be forced.
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
I don't think it is possible to forcibly mate the king with rook and knight only.
Proof: The only mating position is with the black king in a corner, the rook giving check from an adjecent square and the knight protecting the rook and covering the escape square.
For simplicity let's say Ka1, Rb1, Nc3. There are 7 other equivalent positions to this one.
If you retro-analyze the position the last move must have been with the rook along the b file from somewhere between b3 and b8. For the folowing analysis it does not matter from where it came.
Then what was black's last move? It certainly was a king move moving from a2, b2 or b1 to the corner (a1). However, since black was not forced to move the king to the corner but could have moved to a3 or c1 (or to b3 if the rook was standing there), the mate cannot be forced.
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
edited Feb 24 at 21:48
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
answered Feb 24 at 21:09
user1583209user1583209
12.6k21757
12.6k21757
3
For completeness, I guess you have to analyze the possibility that the rook came from b3 preventing Ka3. Of course, then Kxb3 would have been possible.
– D M
Feb 24 at 21:15
add a comment |
3
For completeness, I guess you have to analyze the possibility that the rook came from b3 preventing Ka3. Of course, then Kxb3 would have been possible.
– D M
Feb 24 at 21:15
3
3
For completeness, I guess you have to analyze the possibility that the rook came from b3 preventing Ka3. Of course, then Kxb3 would have been possible.
– D M
Feb 24 at 21:15
For completeness, I guess you have to analyze the possibility that the rook came from b3 preventing Ka3. Of course, then Kxb3 would have been possible.
– D M
Feb 24 at 21:15
add a comment |
The knight would have to go to c3, and then the king's only move is a1. Then Rb1 or Ra2 mate, the Arabian mate.
But on 1.Nc3+, the king can go to a3. It can't go to the b-file, because we've assumed a rook is on b8. A similar argument holds for if the king starts on b1, with a rook on h2.
Had a king been on c4, 1.Nc3+ Ka3 2.Rb3#. Therefore, a king is necessary.
P.S. The Arabian mate is so-called because it exists from the times of Chaturanga (500 A.D.)! The rook, knight and king have always been able to move the same.
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
add a comment |
The knight would have to go to c3, and then the king's only move is a1. Then Rb1 or Ra2 mate, the Arabian mate.
But on 1.Nc3+, the king can go to a3. It can't go to the b-file, because we've assumed a rook is on b8. A similar argument holds for if the king starts on b1, with a rook on h2.
Had a king been on c4, 1.Nc3+ Ka3 2.Rb3#. Therefore, a king is necessary.
P.S. The Arabian mate is so-called because it exists from the times of Chaturanga (500 A.D.)! The rook, knight and king have always been able to move the same.
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
add a comment |
The knight would have to go to c3, and then the king's only move is a1. Then Rb1 or Ra2 mate, the Arabian mate.
But on 1.Nc3+, the king can go to a3. It can't go to the b-file, because we've assumed a rook is on b8. A similar argument holds for if the king starts on b1, with a rook on h2.
Had a king been on c4, 1.Nc3+ Ka3 2.Rb3#. Therefore, a king is necessary.
P.S. The Arabian mate is so-called because it exists from the times of Chaturanga (500 A.D.)! The rook, knight and king have always been able to move the same.
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
The knight would have to go to c3, and then the king's only move is a1. Then Rb1 or Ra2 mate, the Arabian mate.
But on 1.Nc3+, the king can go to a3. It can't go to the b-file, because we've assumed a rook is on b8. A similar argument holds for if the king starts on b1, with a rook on h2.
Had a king been on c4, 1.Nc3+ Ka3 2.Rb3#. Therefore, a king is necessary.
P.S. The Arabian mate is so-called because it exists from the times of Chaturanga (500 A.D.)! The rook, knight and king have always been able to move the same.
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
answered Feb 25 at 16:13
Jossie CalderonJossie Calderon
1,518320
1,518320
add a comment |
add a comment |
It's likely not a win, assuming White plays rationally. While it is possible to set up a checkmate position (e.g., knight on c3, rook on a2, White king on a1), Black shouldn't be able to force White into this position. The knight and rook can't control enough squares in their immediate vicinity to create a box and successfully push the White king back.
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
add a comment |
It's likely not a win, assuming White plays rationally. While it is possible to set up a checkmate position (e.g., knight on c3, rook on a2, White king on a1), Black shouldn't be able to force White into this position. The knight and rook can't control enough squares in their immediate vicinity to create a box and successfully push the White king back.
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
add a comment |
It's likely not a win, assuming White plays rationally. While it is possible to set up a checkmate position (e.g., knight on c3, rook on a2, White king on a1), Black shouldn't be able to force White into this position. The knight and rook can't control enough squares in their immediate vicinity to create a box and successfully push the White king back.
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
It's likely not a win, assuming White plays rationally. While it is possible to set up a checkmate position (e.g., knight on c3, rook on a2, White king on a1), Black shouldn't be able to force White into this position. The knight and rook can't control enough squares in their immediate vicinity to create a box and successfully push the White king back.
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
answered Feb 26 at 2:21
Inertial IgnoranceInertial Ignorance
5,197513
5,197513
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Close voters: IMHO (which as always could be wrong) this question is not too broad. It could benefit from a picture, perhaps, but it sounds like a standard endgame-style question. (i.e. "Can King and Rook draw vs King and Queen?"). The location of the pieces is assumed to not have any immediate tactics.
– Brandon_J
Feb 25 at 3:58