Does layer 3 protocols use layer 2 protocols?

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1
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I saw the STP on layer 2. The guy that made the tutorial says at the end :




Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly
being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




But when we are routing with IP on layer 3, we are then going layer 2->1 and then 1->2->.. so do we use lower layers protocols ?



Or are they used only for LAN routing ?










share|improve this question



























    up vote
    1
    down vote

    favorite












    I saw the STP on layer 2. The guy that made the tutorial says at the end :




    Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly
    being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




    But when we are routing with IP on layer 3, we are then going layer 2->1 and then 1->2->.. so do we use lower layers protocols ?



    Or are they used only for LAN routing ?










    share|improve this question

























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      I saw the STP on layer 2. The guy that made the tutorial says at the end :




      Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly
      being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




      But when we are routing with IP on layer 3, we are then going layer 2->1 and then 1->2->.. so do we use lower layers protocols ?



      Or are they used only for LAN routing ?










      share|improve this question















      I saw the STP on layer 2. The guy that made the tutorial says at the end :




      Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly
      being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




      But when we are routing with IP on layer 3, we are then going layer 2->1 and then 1->2->.. so do we use lower layers protocols ?



      Or are they used only for LAN routing ?







      ip spanning-tree layer2 layer1 layer3






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 2 hours ago









      Ron Maupin♦

      58.8k1058106




      58.8k1058106










      asked 3 hours ago









      Romain B.

      1115




      1115




















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          2
          down vote













          It used to be, "Switch where you can, route where you must." That has been turned on its head. Of course, an interface, even on a layer-3 router, uses both layer-1 and layer-2 protocols. I think the idea is that the current best practices are moving toward routing all the way to the access switch. Within the access switch, you are still layer-2, but the access switches connect to the distribution via layer-3 connections and routing, and access switches do not connect to each other.



          That means that a VLAN exists only on the single access switch, You can have multiple VLANs on a single access switch, but those VLANs do not extend to any other access switches. This will almost completely remove any STP or other layer-2 problems, e.g. broadcast storms, that can bring an entire site to its knees. We live in a layer-3 world, and it is now rare to have an application that needs the same VLAN across all the hosts. We route across the Internet, so why not route in your own network?



          The reason it has been changing is that we now have a lot of layer-3 switches used as access switches that can route to the distribution.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Do we still use layer 2 protocols in LAN ?
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            Yes we do, Ethernet and 802.11 (Wi-Fi) are layer 2 protocols.
            – Ron Trunk
            3 hours ago










          • So when I'm connected on ethernet and I'm sending a packet, it's routed using layer 2 protocol until it reaches the router and then it uses IP routing ?
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago










          • Layer-2 doesn't route, it bridges frames. Layer-3 routes packets.
            – Ron Maupin♦
            3 hours ago






          • 1




            Yes, bridges bridge frames using a table, or flooding of the frame if the destination is not in the table. The frames do not include a bridge ID. That is part of STP, and it is in the BPDUs sent by bridges to each other in order to determine a loop-free path. Bridges only look at the frame to forward the frames, but routers strip off the frame to get to the packet.
            – Ron Maupin♦
            2 hours ago

















          up vote
          2
          down vote













          The quote you quoted is simply misleading. All modern network devices transmit data at wire speed, so they're all "blazing fast." Whether it's layer 2 or 3 makes no difference in data rates.



          A host will create data, and then encapsulate it in a lower level protocol data unit. So TCP gets encapsulated in IP, which gets encapsulated in 802.11, etc. It's all 1's and 0's when it leaves the computer. The receiving host reverses the process and de-encapsulates the data as it moves up the protocol software stack.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Yes, I think he meant how long it takes to get a spanning tree using the protocol
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago










          • Rapid Spanning Tree protocol (802.3w) is a significant improvement on convergence time.
            – Ron Trunk
            3 hours ago

















          up vote
          2
          down vote













          Layer 3 (mostly IP) generally relies on the underlying layer-2 network (mostly Ethernet or Wi-Fi) for delivery. Just like a layer-2 network uses layer-1 links to actually move the bits.



          The difference in moving data at layer 1, 2 or 3 is the complexity of the devices. Layer-1 devices (repeaters) just copied bits - simple yet inefficient and long obsolete. Layer-2 devices (switches) intelligently forward frames and are very efficient, but layer-2 networks are limited in size. Layer-3 devices (routers) can handle networks of (theoretically) any size but their complexity initially prohibited building them in hardware. Software routers were slow and expensive. Of course, a router needs to have hardware for layers 2 and 1 as well.




          Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




          This is about something different. The author describes the basic network architecture over time. Formerly, only layer-2 networks were used within a company network connected to the outside by (slow and expensive) routers. As technology advanced, routers became hardware-based and much faster. On the other hand, switches became more advanced and learned basic routing (layer-3 switching).



          At the same time, networks grew much larger than they used to be, rendering the "layer 2 throughout" design obsolete - layer-2 networks only scale in a limited way.



          With performance up and cost down, it became common design to use routers and layer-3 switch in the core. Today, the layer-3 approach has grown outside from the core into the aggregation layer, enabling even larger networks. The next step is to also use routing instead of switching in the access layer where the clients are connected.






          share|improve this answer






















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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes








            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            2
            down vote













            It used to be, "Switch where you can, route where you must." That has been turned on its head. Of course, an interface, even on a layer-3 router, uses both layer-1 and layer-2 protocols. I think the idea is that the current best practices are moving toward routing all the way to the access switch. Within the access switch, you are still layer-2, but the access switches connect to the distribution via layer-3 connections and routing, and access switches do not connect to each other.



            That means that a VLAN exists only on the single access switch, You can have multiple VLANs on a single access switch, but those VLANs do not extend to any other access switches. This will almost completely remove any STP or other layer-2 problems, e.g. broadcast storms, that can bring an entire site to its knees. We live in a layer-3 world, and it is now rare to have an application that needs the same VLAN across all the hosts. We route across the Internet, so why not route in your own network?



            The reason it has been changing is that we now have a lot of layer-3 switches used as access switches that can route to the distribution.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Do we still use layer 2 protocols in LAN ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes we do, Ethernet and 802.11 (Wi-Fi) are layer 2 protocols.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago










            • So when I'm connected on ethernet and I'm sending a packet, it's routed using layer 2 protocol until it reaches the router and then it uses IP routing ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Layer-2 doesn't route, it bridges frames. Layer-3 routes packets.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes, bridges bridge frames using a table, or flooding of the frame if the destination is not in the table. The frames do not include a bridge ID. That is part of STP, and it is in the BPDUs sent by bridges to each other in order to determine a loop-free path. Bridges only look at the frame to forward the frames, but routers strip off the frame to get to the packet.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              2 hours ago














            up vote
            2
            down vote













            It used to be, "Switch where you can, route where you must." That has been turned on its head. Of course, an interface, even on a layer-3 router, uses both layer-1 and layer-2 protocols. I think the idea is that the current best practices are moving toward routing all the way to the access switch. Within the access switch, you are still layer-2, but the access switches connect to the distribution via layer-3 connections and routing, and access switches do not connect to each other.



            That means that a VLAN exists only on the single access switch, You can have multiple VLANs on a single access switch, but those VLANs do not extend to any other access switches. This will almost completely remove any STP or other layer-2 problems, e.g. broadcast storms, that can bring an entire site to its knees. We live in a layer-3 world, and it is now rare to have an application that needs the same VLAN across all the hosts. We route across the Internet, so why not route in your own network?



            The reason it has been changing is that we now have a lot of layer-3 switches used as access switches that can route to the distribution.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Do we still use layer 2 protocols in LAN ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes we do, Ethernet and 802.11 (Wi-Fi) are layer 2 protocols.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago










            • So when I'm connected on ethernet and I'm sending a packet, it's routed using layer 2 protocol until it reaches the router and then it uses IP routing ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Layer-2 doesn't route, it bridges frames. Layer-3 routes packets.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes, bridges bridge frames using a table, or flooding of the frame if the destination is not in the table. The frames do not include a bridge ID. That is part of STP, and it is in the BPDUs sent by bridges to each other in order to determine a loop-free path. Bridges only look at the frame to forward the frames, but routers strip off the frame to get to the packet.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              2 hours ago












            up vote
            2
            down vote










            up vote
            2
            down vote









            It used to be, "Switch where you can, route where you must." That has been turned on its head. Of course, an interface, even on a layer-3 router, uses both layer-1 and layer-2 protocols. I think the idea is that the current best practices are moving toward routing all the way to the access switch. Within the access switch, you are still layer-2, but the access switches connect to the distribution via layer-3 connections and routing, and access switches do not connect to each other.



            That means that a VLAN exists only on the single access switch, You can have multiple VLANs on a single access switch, but those VLANs do not extend to any other access switches. This will almost completely remove any STP or other layer-2 problems, e.g. broadcast storms, that can bring an entire site to its knees. We live in a layer-3 world, and it is now rare to have an application that needs the same VLAN across all the hosts. We route across the Internet, so why not route in your own network?



            The reason it has been changing is that we now have a lot of layer-3 switches used as access switches that can route to the distribution.






            share|improve this answer












            It used to be, "Switch where you can, route where you must." That has been turned on its head. Of course, an interface, even on a layer-3 router, uses both layer-1 and layer-2 protocols. I think the idea is that the current best practices are moving toward routing all the way to the access switch. Within the access switch, you are still layer-2, but the access switches connect to the distribution via layer-3 connections and routing, and access switches do not connect to each other.



            That means that a VLAN exists only on the single access switch, You can have multiple VLANs on a single access switch, but those VLANs do not extend to any other access switches. This will almost completely remove any STP or other layer-2 problems, e.g. broadcast storms, that can bring an entire site to its knees. We live in a layer-3 world, and it is now rare to have an application that needs the same VLAN across all the hosts. We route across the Internet, so why not route in your own network?



            The reason it has been changing is that we now have a lot of layer-3 switches used as access switches that can route to the distribution.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 3 hours ago









            Ron Maupin♦

            58.8k1058106




            58.8k1058106











            • Do we still use layer 2 protocols in LAN ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes we do, Ethernet and 802.11 (Wi-Fi) are layer 2 protocols.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago










            • So when I'm connected on ethernet and I'm sending a packet, it's routed using layer 2 protocol until it reaches the router and then it uses IP routing ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Layer-2 doesn't route, it bridges frames. Layer-3 routes packets.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes, bridges bridge frames using a table, or flooding of the frame if the destination is not in the table. The frames do not include a bridge ID. That is part of STP, and it is in the BPDUs sent by bridges to each other in order to determine a loop-free path. Bridges only look at the frame to forward the frames, but routers strip off the frame to get to the packet.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              2 hours ago
















            • Do we still use layer 2 protocols in LAN ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes we do, Ethernet and 802.11 (Wi-Fi) are layer 2 protocols.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago










            • So when I'm connected on ethernet and I'm sending a packet, it's routed using layer 2 protocol until it reaches the router and then it uses IP routing ?
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Layer-2 doesn't route, it bridges frames. Layer-3 routes packets.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              3 hours ago






            • 1




              Yes, bridges bridge frames using a table, or flooding of the frame if the destination is not in the table. The frames do not include a bridge ID. That is part of STP, and it is in the BPDUs sent by bridges to each other in order to determine a loop-free path. Bridges only look at the frame to forward the frames, but routers strip off the frame to get to the packet.
              – Ron Maupin♦
              2 hours ago















            Do we still use layer 2 protocols in LAN ?
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago




            Do we still use layer 2 protocols in LAN ?
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago




            1




            1




            Yes we do, Ethernet and 802.11 (Wi-Fi) are layer 2 protocols.
            – Ron Trunk
            3 hours ago




            Yes we do, Ethernet and 802.11 (Wi-Fi) are layer 2 protocols.
            – Ron Trunk
            3 hours ago












            So when I'm connected on ethernet and I'm sending a packet, it's routed using layer 2 protocol until it reaches the router and then it uses IP routing ?
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago




            So when I'm connected on ethernet and I'm sending a packet, it's routed using layer 2 protocol until it reaches the router and then it uses IP routing ?
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago












            Layer-2 doesn't route, it bridges frames. Layer-3 routes packets.
            – Ron Maupin♦
            3 hours ago




            Layer-2 doesn't route, it bridges frames. Layer-3 routes packets.
            – Ron Maupin♦
            3 hours ago




            1




            1




            Yes, bridges bridge frames using a table, or flooding of the frame if the destination is not in the table. The frames do not include a bridge ID. That is part of STP, and it is in the BPDUs sent by bridges to each other in order to determine a loop-free path. Bridges only look at the frame to forward the frames, but routers strip off the frame to get to the packet.
            – Ron Maupin♦
            2 hours ago




            Yes, bridges bridge frames using a table, or flooding of the frame if the destination is not in the table. The frames do not include a bridge ID. That is part of STP, and it is in the BPDUs sent by bridges to each other in order to determine a loop-free path. Bridges only look at the frame to forward the frames, but routers strip off the frame to get to the packet.
            – Ron Maupin♦
            2 hours ago










            up vote
            2
            down vote













            The quote you quoted is simply misleading. All modern network devices transmit data at wire speed, so they're all "blazing fast." Whether it's layer 2 or 3 makes no difference in data rates.



            A host will create data, and then encapsulate it in a lower level protocol data unit. So TCP gets encapsulated in IP, which gets encapsulated in 802.11, etc. It's all 1's and 0's when it leaves the computer. The receiving host reverses the process and de-encapsulates the data as it moves up the protocol software stack.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Yes, I think he meant how long it takes to get a spanning tree using the protocol
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Rapid Spanning Tree protocol (802.3w) is a significant improvement on convergence time.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago














            up vote
            2
            down vote













            The quote you quoted is simply misleading. All modern network devices transmit data at wire speed, so they're all "blazing fast." Whether it's layer 2 or 3 makes no difference in data rates.



            A host will create data, and then encapsulate it in a lower level protocol data unit. So TCP gets encapsulated in IP, which gets encapsulated in 802.11, etc. It's all 1's and 0's when it leaves the computer. The receiving host reverses the process and de-encapsulates the data as it moves up the protocol software stack.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Yes, I think he meant how long it takes to get a spanning tree using the protocol
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Rapid Spanning Tree protocol (802.3w) is a significant improvement on convergence time.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago












            up vote
            2
            down vote










            up vote
            2
            down vote









            The quote you quoted is simply misleading. All modern network devices transmit data at wire speed, so they're all "blazing fast." Whether it's layer 2 or 3 makes no difference in data rates.



            A host will create data, and then encapsulate it in a lower level protocol data unit. So TCP gets encapsulated in IP, which gets encapsulated in 802.11, etc. It's all 1's and 0's when it leaves the computer. The receiving host reverses the process and de-encapsulates the data as it moves up the protocol software stack.






            share|improve this answer












            The quote you quoted is simply misleading. All modern network devices transmit data at wire speed, so they're all "blazing fast." Whether it's layer 2 or 3 makes no difference in data rates.



            A host will create data, and then encapsulate it in a lower level protocol data unit. So TCP gets encapsulated in IP, which gets encapsulated in 802.11, etc. It's all 1's and 0's when it leaves the computer. The receiving host reverses the process and de-encapsulates the data as it moves up the protocol software stack.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered 3 hours ago









            Ron Trunk

            32.3k22868




            32.3k22868











            • Yes, I think he meant how long it takes to get a spanning tree using the protocol
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Rapid Spanning Tree protocol (802.3w) is a significant improvement on convergence time.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago
















            • Yes, I think he meant how long it takes to get a spanning tree using the protocol
              – Romain B.
              3 hours ago










            • Rapid Spanning Tree protocol (802.3w) is a significant improvement on convergence time.
              – Ron Trunk
              3 hours ago















            Yes, I think he meant how long it takes to get a spanning tree using the protocol
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago




            Yes, I think he meant how long it takes to get a spanning tree using the protocol
            – Romain B.
            3 hours ago












            Rapid Spanning Tree protocol (802.3w) is a significant improvement on convergence time.
            – Ron Trunk
            3 hours ago




            Rapid Spanning Tree protocol (802.3w) is a significant improvement on convergence time.
            – Ron Trunk
            3 hours ago










            up vote
            2
            down vote













            Layer 3 (mostly IP) generally relies on the underlying layer-2 network (mostly Ethernet or Wi-Fi) for delivery. Just like a layer-2 network uses layer-1 links to actually move the bits.



            The difference in moving data at layer 1, 2 or 3 is the complexity of the devices. Layer-1 devices (repeaters) just copied bits - simple yet inefficient and long obsolete. Layer-2 devices (switches) intelligently forward frames and are very efficient, but layer-2 networks are limited in size. Layer-3 devices (routers) can handle networks of (theoretically) any size but their complexity initially prohibited building them in hardware. Software routers were slow and expensive. Of course, a router needs to have hardware for layers 2 and 1 as well.




            Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




            This is about something different. The author describes the basic network architecture over time. Formerly, only layer-2 networks were used within a company network connected to the outside by (slow and expensive) routers. As technology advanced, routers became hardware-based and much faster. On the other hand, switches became more advanced and learned basic routing (layer-3 switching).



            At the same time, networks grew much larger than they used to be, rendering the "layer 2 throughout" design obsolete - layer-2 networks only scale in a limited way.



            With performance up and cost down, it became common design to use routers and layer-3 switch in the core. Today, the layer-3 approach has grown outside from the core into the aggregation layer, enabling even larger networks. The next step is to also use routing instead of switching in the access layer where the clients are connected.






            share|improve this answer


























              up vote
              2
              down vote













              Layer 3 (mostly IP) generally relies on the underlying layer-2 network (mostly Ethernet or Wi-Fi) for delivery. Just like a layer-2 network uses layer-1 links to actually move the bits.



              The difference in moving data at layer 1, 2 or 3 is the complexity of the devices. Layer-1 devices (repeaters) just copied bits - simple yet inefficient and long obsolete. Layer-2 devices (switches) intelligently forward frames and are very efficient, but layer-2 networks are limited in size. Layer-3 devices (routers) can handle networks of (theoretically) any size but their complexity initially prohibited building them in hardware. Software routers were slow and expensive. Of course, a router needs to have hardware for layers 2 and 1 as well.




              Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




              This is about something different. The author describes the basic network architecture over time. Formerly, only layer-2 networks were used within a company network connected to the outside by (slow and expensive) routers. As technology advanced, routers became hardware-based and much faster. On the other hand, switches became more advanced and learned basic routing (layer-3 switching).



              At the same time, networks grew much larger than they used to be, rendering the "layer 2 throughout" design obsolete - layer-2 networks only scale in a limited way.



              With performance up and cost down, it became common design to use routers and layer-3 switch in the core. Today, the layer-3 approach has grown outside from the core into the aggregation layer, enabling even larger networks. The next step is to also use routing instead of switching in the access layer where the clients are connected.






              share|improve this answer
























                up vote
                2
                down vote










                up vote
                2
                down vote









                Layer 3 (mostly IP) generally relies on the underlying layer-2 network (mostly Ethernet or Wi-Fi) for delivery. Just like a layer-2 network uses layer-1 links to actually move the bits.



                The difference in moving data at layer 1, 2 or 3 is the complexity of the devices. Layer-1 devices (repeaters) just copied bits - simple yet inefficient and long obsolete. Layer-2 devices (switches) intelligently forward frames and are very efficient, but layer-2 networks are limited in size. Layer-3 devices (routers) can handle networks of (theoretically) any size but their complexity initially prohibited building them in hardware. Software routers were slow and expensive. Of course, a router needs to have hardware for layers 2 and 1 as well.




                Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




                This is about something different. The author describes the basic network architecture over time. Formerly, only layer-2 networks were used within a company network connected to the outside by (slow and expensive) routers. As technology advanced, routers became hardware-based and much faster. On the other hand, switches became more advanced and learned basic routing (layer-3 switching).



                At the same time, networks grew much larger than they used to be, rendering the "layer 2 throughout" design obsolete - layer-2 networks only scale in a limited way.



                With performance up and cost down, it became common design to use routers and layer-3 switch in the core. Today, the layer-3 approach has grown outside from the core into the aggregation layer, enabling even larger networks. The next step is to also use routing instead of switching in the access layer where the clients are connected.






                share|improve this answer














                Layer 3 (mostly IP) generally relies on the underlying layer-2 network (mostly Ethernet or Wi-Fi) for delivery. Just like a layer-2 network uses layer-1 links to actually move the bits.



                The difference in moving data at layer 1, 2 or 3 is the complexity of the devices. Layer-1 devices (repeaters) just copied bits - simple yet inefficient and long obsolete. Layer-2 devices (switches) intelligently forward frames and are very efficient, but layer-2 networks are limited in size. Layer-3 devices (routers) can handle networks of (theoretically) any size but their complexity initially prohibited building them in hardware. Software routers were slow and expensive. Of course, a router needs to have hardware for layers 2 and 1 as well.




                Even though it seems that Layer 2 access layer solutions are slowly being replaced by blazing fast Layer 3 solutions.




                This is about something different. The author describes the basic network architecture over time. Formerly, only layer-2 networks were used within a company network connected to the outside by (slow and expensive) routers. As technology advanced, routers became hardware-based and much faster. On the other hand, switches became more advanced and learned basic routing (layer-3 switching).



                At the same time, networks grew much larger than they used to be, rendering the "layer 2 throughout" design obsolete - layer-2 networks only scale in a limited way.



                With performance up and cost down, it became common design to use routers and layer-3 switch in the core. Today, the layer-3 approach has grown outside from the core into the aggregation layer, enabling even larger networks. The next step is to also use routing instead of switching in the access layer where the clients are connected.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited 3 hours ago

























                answered 3 hours ago









                Zac67

                22.3k21250




                22.3k21250



























                     

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