Can targets see through Disguise Self/Seeming if they succeed on the Investigation check?

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The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.



The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".



Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.



Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?










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  • 7




    I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago











  • Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
    – Nicbobo
    5 hours ago










  • It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
    – NautArch
    5 hours ago














up vote
5
down vote

favorite












The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.



The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".



Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.



Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?










share|improve this question



















  • 7




    I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago











  • Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
    – Nicbobo
    5 hours ago










  • It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
    – NautArch
    5 hours ago












up vote
5
down vote

favorite









up vote
5
down vote

favorite











The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.



The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".



Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.



Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?










share|improve this question















The one answer to my previous question suggests that all Illusions conjured by Disguise Self and Seeming can be seen through by the user, but not by outside viewers.



The two spells Disguise Self and Seeming both differ from traditional Illusion spells in that they contain no clause that causes the Illusions to "fade" or "become transparent".



Instead, successful Investigation checks allow viewers to "discern" and "become aware" that the target is disguised.



Can viewers succeeding on the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?







dnd-5e spells rules-as-written illusion






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edited 14 mins ago









V2Blast

16.7k242107




16.7k242107










asked 6 hours ago









Nicbobo

951226




951226







  • 7




    I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago











  • Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
    – Nicbobo
    5 hours ago










  • It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
    – NautArch
    5 hours ago












  • 7




    I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
    – NautArch
    6 hours ago











  • Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
    – Nicbobo
    5 hours ago










  • It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
    – NautArch
    5 hours ago







7




7




I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago





I'm not sure that your previous question that only has one answer with 4 upvotes and 3 downvotes is a good example of consensus.
– NautArch
6 hours ago













Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago




Agreed - it could be worded differently. I wanted to acknowledge the similarities in the questions.
– Nicbobo
5 hours ago












It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago




It might be best just to remove that and just give a related link to it in the comments.
– NautArch
5 hours ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
15
down vote













Spells do exactly what they say:



Disguise self reads:




To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.




Seeming Says:




If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.




Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Illusions become translucent only if they say so



    As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:




    If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint




    But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.



    This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).



    Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)






    share|improve this answer





























      up vote
      -1
      down vote













      Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.



      I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.



      I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)



      or



      those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.






      share|improve this answer
















      • 1




        How does this answer the question?
        – enkryptor
        2 hours ago










      • Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
        – mightyonet
        1 hour ago










      • RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
        – V2Blast
        13 mins ago










      Your Answer




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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      15
      down vote













      Spells do exactly what they say:



      Disguise self reads:




      To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.




      Seeming Says:




      If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.




      Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.






      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        15
        down vote













        Spells do exactly what they say:



        Disguise self reads:




        To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.




        Seeming Says:




        If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.




        Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.






        share|improve this answer






















          up vote
          15
          down vote










          up vote
          15
          down vote









          Spells do exactly what they say:



          Disguise self reads:




          To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.




          Seeming Says:




          If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.




          Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.






          share|improve this answer












          Spells do exactly what they say:



          Disguise self reads:




          To discern that you are disguised, a creature can use its action to inspect your appearance and must succeed on an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC.




          Seeming Says:




          If it succeeds, it becomes aware that the target is disguised.




          Both imply the success mean they know you are disguised, not necessarily what you look like under the illusion. The DM can rule what that means for your table.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 6 hours ago









          J. A. Streich

          22.6k165121




          22.6k165121






















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              Illusions become translucent only if they say so



              As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:




              If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint




              But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.



              This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).



              Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)






              share|improve this answer


























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                Illusions become translucent only if they say so



                As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:




                If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint




                But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.



                This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).



                Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)






                share|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote









                  Illusions become translucent only if they say so



                  As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:




                  If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint




                  But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.



                  This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).



                  Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)






                  share|improve this answer














                  Illusions become translucent only if they say so



                  As you mention: some illusion spells (like Minor Illusion and Programmed Illusion) state:




                  If a creature discerns the illusion for what it is, the illusion becomes faint




                  But other illusion spells (like Disguise Self, Seeming and Mirror Image) do not have this clause.



                  This appears to be intentional based on desired effect (especially in the case of say, Mirror Image).



                  Historical note (if desired) - this was also how they behaved in previous editions. In 3.5e, the "translucent outline" effect only applied to a figment or phantasm (like Minor Image or Programmed Image)







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 2 hours ago

























                  answered 2 hours ago









                  Matt Vincent

                  7,41321443




                  7,41321443




















                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote













                      Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.



                      I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.



                      I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)



                      or



                      those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.






                      share|improve this answer
















                      • 1




                        How does this answer the question?
                        – enkryptor
                        2 hours ago










                      • Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
                        – mightyonet
                        1 hour ago










                      • RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
                        – V2Blast
                        13 mins ago














                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote













                      Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.



                      I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.



                      I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)



                      or



                      those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.






                      share|improve this answer
















                      • 1




                        How does this answer the question?
                        – enkryptor
                        2 hours ago










                      • Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
                        – mightyonet
                        1 hour ago










                      • RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
                        – V2Blast
                        13 mins ago












                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      -1
                      down vote









                      Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.



                      I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.



                      I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)



                      or



                      those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.






                      share|improve this answer












                      Although, as a point of interest, an investigation check is different from a perception check.



                      I would argue that most people would have no reason to question a disguise, you wouldn't walk down the street as a disguised drow and have everyone on the street roll investigation checks. Furthermore, investigation seems to involve being able to be up close and if need be, interact with an objects.



                      I would suggest the only people who would investigate such a disguise are those who have a reason to question it's validity (eg. you're wearing a fur coat in hot weather or something dislodges your costume revealing something underneath or something passes through a part of your body that isn't real etc.)



                      or



                      those who are proficient in investigation and hence are more used to questioning things/ have a natural curiosity.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered 2 hours ago









                      mightyonet

                      13514




                      13514







                      • 1




                        How does this answer the question?
                        – enkryptor
                        2 hours ago










                      • Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
                        – mightyonet
                        1 hour ago










                      • RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
                        – V2Blast
                        13 mins ago












                      • 1




                        How does this answer the question?
                        – enkryptor
                        2 hours ago










                      • Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
                        – mightyonet
                        1 hour ago










                      • RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
                        – V2Blast
                        13 mins ago







                      1




                      1




                      How does this answer the question?
                      – enkryptor
                      2 hours ago




                      How does this answer the question?
                      – enkryptor
                      2 hours ago












                      Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
                      – mightyonet
                      1 hour ago




                      Well they asked "Can viewers beating the check literally see through the disguise? If a Half-Elf disguises their race to look like a Drow, does the viewer know their true race if their check beats the disguise, RAW?" I was discussing under what circumstances a disguise might be penetrated with an investigation check.
                      – mightyonet
                      1 hour ago












                      RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
                      – V2Blast
                      13 mins ago




                      RPG.SE is unlike a typical discussion forum; it's a Q&A site, meaning all answers must directly answer the question. Discussion prompts are more suited to chat or a forum.
                      – V2Blast
                      13 mins ago

















                       

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