Smallest Mazur's good prime
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
$begingroup$
Let $p$ and $ell$ be primes $geq 5$ such that $ell$ divides $p-1$. Following Mazur, we say that a prime $q$ is a $textitgood prime$ if $ell$ does not divide $q-1$ and $q$ is not a $ell$th power modulo $p$. There exists (infinitely many) good primes by Dirichlet theorem. Note that $ell$ may a good prime (we don't exclude this possibility).
Which upper bound can we give for the smallest good prime $q$, in terms of $ell$ and $p$? I would be particularly happy if an upper bound in $o(p)$ could be proved.
Just for recalling the motivation behind this definition, Mazur proved that $q$ is a good prime if and only if the Hecke operator $T_q-q-1$ generates locally the $ell$-Eisenstein ideal of level $Gamma_0(p)$.
analytic-number-theory prime-numbers modular-forms hecke-algebras
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $p$ and $ell$ be primes $geq 5$ such that $ell$ divides $p-1$. Following Mazur, we say that a prime $q$ is a $textitgood prime$ if $ell$ does not divide $q-1$ and $q$ is not a $ell$th power modulo $p$. There exists (infinitely many) good primes by Dirichlet theorem. Note that $ell$ may a good prime (we don't exclude this possibility).
Which upper bound can we give for the smallest good prime $q$, in terms of $ell$ and $p$? I would be particularly happy if an upper bound in $o(p)$ could be proved.
Just for recalling the motivation behind this definition, Mazur proved that $q$ is a good prime if and only if the Hecke operator $T_q-q-1$ generates locally the $ell$-Eisenstein ideal of level $Gamma_0(p)$.
analytic-number-theory prime-numbers modular-forms hecke-algebras
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $p$ and $ell$ be primes $geq 5$ such that $ell$ divides $p-1$. Following Mazur, we say that a prime $q$ is a $textitgood prime$ if $ell$ does not divide $q-1$ and $q$ is not a $ell$th power modulo $p$. There exists (infinitely many) good primes by Dirichlet theorem. Note that $ell$ may a good prime (we don't exclude this possibility).
Which upper bound can we give for the smallest good prime $q$, in terms of $ell$ and $p$? I would be particularly happy if an upper bound in $o(p)$ could be proved.
Just for recalling the motivation behind this definition, Mazur proved that $q$ is a good prime if and only if the Hecke operator $T_q-q-1$ generates locally the $ell$-Eisenstein ideal of level $Gamma_0(p)$.
analytic-number-theory prime-numbers modular-forms hecke-algebras
$endgroup$
Let $p$ and $ell$ be primes $geq 5$ such that $ell$ divides $p-1$. Following Mazur, we say that a prime $q$ is a $textitgood prime$ if $ell$ does not divide $q-1$ and $q$ is not a $ell$th power modulo $p$. There exists (infinitely many) good primes by Dirichlet theorem. Note that $ell$ may a good prime (we don't exclude this possibility).
Which upper bound can we give for the smallest good prime $q$, in terms of $ell$ and $p$? I would be particularly happy if an upper bound in $o(p)$ could be proved.
Just for recalling the motivation behind this definition, Mazur proved that $q$ is a good prime if and only if the Hecke operator $T_q-q-1$ generates locally the $ell$-Eisenstein ideal of level $Gamma_0(p)$.
analytic-number-theory prime-numbers modular-forms hecke-algebras
analytic-number-theory prime-numbers modular-forms hecke-algebras
edited Jan 28 at 8:53
Emmanuel Lecouturier
asked Jan 28 at 7:47
Emmanuel LecouturierEmmanuel Lecouturier
719413
719413
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1 Answer
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The good primes (not counting $ell$ itself, if that's allowed to be a good prime) are precisely those that lie both in one of $ell-2$ reduced residue classes (mod $ell$) and one of $(p-1)(1-1/ell)$ reduced residue classes (mod $p$) (in particular, their relative density in the primes is $1-2/ell$). So the good primes are those that avoid $(ell-1)(p-1)2/ell$ of the residue classes (mod $pell$).
By the Brun–Titchmarsh theorem, the number of primes up to $x$ in any one of those bad residue classes (mod $pell$) is at most $2x/ phi(pell)log(x/pell) $; thus together, those bad residue classes contain at most $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $ primes up to $x$. On the other hand, the overall number of primes up to $x$ is $gtrsim x/log x$ by the prime number theorem. Therefore there must certainly be good primes less than $x$ as soon as $x/log x$ is significantly larger than $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $, or equivalently as soon as $log(x/pell)$ is significantly larger than $(4/ell)log x$.
In short, solving for $x$, this argument shows that there exists a good prime that is $ll_varepsilon (pell)^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilon$, which can be simplified to $ll_varepsilon p^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilonell^1+varepsilon$.
I wouldn't be surprised if a character-sum-based argument could achieve a much better result, perhaps even $ll_varepsilon p^1/4sqrt e+varepsilon$. One nice thing about your situation is that you're looking at the intersection of two sets of primes each with a relative density in the primes, and those two relative densities add to a number greater than $1$; therefore you can simply establish a good lower bound for the number of such primes separately, and conclude that a good prime exists simply by intersecting the two large sets.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! I was looking for a more precise bound, at most linear in $p$. For instance, if $pgeq 37$ then I expect that the smallest good prime is $leq fracp-112$ (for any choice of $ell$). Do you have a reference for the kind of arguments you alluded to at the end of your answer?
$endgroup$
– Emmanuel Lecouturier
Jan 28 at 9:50
1
$begingroup$
You can search the literature for "least quadratic nonresidue" (the $ell=2$ case, which is a good model for the structure of such arguments) and then "least character nonresidue".
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
Jan 28 at 17:57
add a comment |
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1 Answer
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active
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1 Answer
1
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oldest
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active
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$begingroup$
The good primes (not counting $ell$ itself, if that's allowed to be a good prime) are precisely those that lie both in one of $ell-2$ reduced residue classes (mod $ell$) and one of $(p-1)(1-1/ell)$ reduced residue classes (mod $p$) (in particular, their relative density in the primes is $1-2/ell$). So the good primes are those that avoid $(ell-1)(p-1)2/ell$ of the residue classes (mod $pell$).
By the Brun–Titchmarsh theorem, the number of primes up to $x$ in any one of those bad residue classes (mod $pell$) is at most $2x/ phi(pell)log(x/pell) $; thus together, those bad residue classes contain at most $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $ primes up to $x$. On the other hand, the overall number of primes up to $x$ is $gtrsim x/log x$ by the prime number theorem. Therefore there must certainly be good primes less than $x$ as soon as $x/log x$ is significantly larger than $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $, or equivalently as soon as $log(x/pell)$ is significantly larger than $(4/ell)log x$.
In short, solving for $x$, this argument shows that there exists a good prime that is $ll_varepsilon (pell)^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilon$, which can be simplified to $ll_varepsilon p^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilonell^1+varepsilon$.
I wouldn't be surprised if a character-sum-based argument could achieve a much better result, perhaps even $ll_varepsilon p^1/4sqrt e+varepsilon$. One nice thing about your situation is that you're looking at the intersection of two sets of primes each with a relative density in the primes, and those two relative densities add to a number greater than $1$; therefore you can simply establish a good lower bound for the number of such primes separately, and conclude that a good prime exists simply by intersecting the two large sets.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! I was looking for a more precise bound, at most linear in $p$. For instance, if $pgeq 37$ then I expect that the smallest good prime is $leq fracp-112$ (for any choice of $ell$). Do you have a reference for the kind of arguments you alluded to at the end of your answer?
$endgroup$
– Emmanuel Lecouturier
Jan 28 at 9:50
1
$begingroup$
You can search the literature for "least quadratic nonresidue" (the $ell=2$ case, which is a good model for the structure of such arguments) and then "least character nonresidue".
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
Jan 28 at 17:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The good primes (not counting $ell$ itself, if that's allowed to be a good prime) are precisely those that lie both in one of $ell-2$ reduced residue classes (mod $ell$) and one of $(p-1)(1-1/ell)$ reduced residue classes (mod $p$) (in particular, their relative density in the primes is $1-2/ell$). So the good primes are those that avoid $(ell-1)(p-1)2/ell$ of the residue classes (mod $pell$).
By the Brun–Titchmarsh theorem, the number of primes up to $x$ in any one of those bad residue classes (mod $pell$) is at most $2x/ phi(pell)log(x/pell) $; thus together, those bad residue classes contain at most $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $ primes up to $x$. On the other hand, the overall number of primes up to $x$ is $gtrsim x/log x$ by the prime number theorem. Therefore there must certainly be good primes less than $x$ as soon as $x/log x$ is significantly larger than $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $, or equivalently as soon as $log(x/pell)$ is significantly larger than $(4/ell)log x$.
In short, solving for $x$, this argument shows that there exists a good prime that is $ll_varepsilon (pell)^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilon$, which can be simplified to $ll_varepsilon p^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilonell^1+varepsilon$.
I wouldn't be surprised if a character-sum-based argument could achieve a much better result, perhaps even $ll_varepsilon p^1/4sqrt e+varepsilon$. One nice thing about your situation is that you're looking at the intersection of two sets of primes each with a relative density in the primes, and those two relative densities add to a number greater than $1$; therefore you can simply establish a good lower bound for the number of such primes separately, and conclude that a good prime exists simply by intersecting the two large sets.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks! I was looking for a more precise bound, at most linear in $p$. For instance, if $pgeq 37$ then I expect that the smallest good prime is $leq fracp-112$ (for any choice of $ell$). Do you have a reference for the kind of arguments you alluded to at the end of your answer?
$endgroup$
– Emmanuel Lecouturier
Jan 28 at 9:50
1
$begingroup$
You can search the literature for "least quadratic nonresidue" (the $ell=2$ case, which is a good model for the structure of such arguments) and then "least character nonresidue".
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
Jan 28 at 17:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The good primes (not counting $ell$ itself, if that's allowed to be a good prime) are precisely those that lie both in one of $ell-2$ reduced residue classes (mod $ell$) and one of $(p-1)(1-1/ell)$ reduced residue classes (mod $p$) (in particular, their relative density in the primes is $1-2/ell$). So the good primes are those that avoid $(ell-1)(p-1)2/ell$ of the residue classes (mod $pell$).
By the Brun–Titchmarsh theorem, the number of primes up to $x$ in any one of those bad residue classes (mod $pell$) is at most $2x/ phi(pell)log(x/pell) $; thus together, those bad residue classes contain at most $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $ primes up to $x$. On the other hand, the overall number of primes up to $x$ is $gtrsim x/log x$ by the prime number theorem. Therefore there must certainly be good primes less than $x$ as soon as $x/log x$ is significantly larger than $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $, or equivalently as soon as $log(x/pell)$ is significantly larger than $(4/ell)log x$.
In short, solving for $x$, this argument shows that there exists a good prime that is $ll_varepsilon (pell)^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilon$, which can be simplified to $ll_varepsilon p^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilonell^1+varepsilon$.
I wouldn't be surprised if a character-sum-based argument could achieve a much better result, perhaps even $ll_varepsilon p^1/4sqrt e+varepsilon$. One nice thing about your situation is that you're looking at the intersection of two sets of primes each with a relative density in the primes, and those two relative densities add to a number greater than $1$; therefore you can simply establish a good lower bound for the number of such primes separately, and conclude that a good prime exists simply by intersecting the two large sets.
$endgroup$
The good primes (not counting $ell$ itself, if that's allowed to be a good prime) are precisely those that lie both in one of $ell-2$ reduced residue classes (mod $ell$) and one of $(p-1)(1-1/ell)$ reduced residue classes (mod $p$) (in particular, their relative density in the primes is $1-2/ell$). So the good primes are those that avoid $(ell-1)(p-1)2/ell$ of the residue classes (mod $pell$).
By the Brun–Titchmarsh theorem, the number of primes up to $x$ in any one of those bad residue classes (mod $pell$) is at most $2x/ phi(pell)log(x/pell) $; thus together, those bad residue classes contain at most $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $ primes up to $x$. On the other hand, the overall number of primes up to $x$ is $gtrsim x/log x$ by the prime number theorem. Therefore there must certainly be good primes less than $x$ as soon as $x/log x$ is significantly larger than $4x/ elllog(x/pell) $, or equivalently as soon as $log(x/pell)$ is significantly larger than $(4/ell)log x$.
In short, solving for $x$, this argument shows that there exists a good prime that is $ll_varepsilon (pell)^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilon$, which can be simplified to $ll_varepsilon p^ell/(ell-4)+varepsilonell^1+varepsilon$.
I wouldn't be surprised if a character-sum-based argument could achieve a much better result, perhaps even $ll_varepsilon p^1/4sqrt e+varepsilon$. One nice thing about your situation is that you're looking at the intersection of two sets of primes each with a relative density in the primes, and those two relative densities add to a number greater than $1$; therefore you can simply establish a good lower bound for the number of such primes separately, and conclude that a good prime exists simply by intersecting the two large sets.
edited Jan 28 at 17:58
answered Jan 28 at 8:24
Greg MartinGreg Martin
8,68813560
8,68813560
$begingroup$
Thanks! I was looking for a more precise bound, at most linear in $p$. For instance, if $pgeq 37$ then I expect that the smallest good prime is $leq fracp-112$ (for any choice of $ell$). Do you have a reference for the kind of arguments you alluded to at the end of your answer?
$endgroup$
– Emmanuel Lecouturier
Jan 28 at 9:50
1
$begingroup$
You can search the literature for "least quadratic nonresidue" (the $ell=2$ case, which is a good model for the structure of such arguments) and then "least character nonresidue".
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
Jan 28 at 17:57
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks! I was looking for a more precise bound, at most linear in $p$. For instance, if $pgeq 37$ then I expect that the smallest good prime is $leq fracp-112$ (for any choice of $ell$). Do you have a reference for the kind of arguments you alluded to at the end of your answer?
$endgroup$
– Emmanuel Lecouturier
Jan 28 at 9:50
1
$begingroup$
You can search the literature for "least quadratic nonresidue" (the $ell=2$ case, which is a good model for the structure of such arguments) and then "least character nonresidue".
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
Jan 28 at 17:57
$begingroup$
Thanks! I was looking for a more precise bound, at most linear in $p$. For instance, if $pgeq 37$ then I expect that the smallest good prime is $leq fracp-112$ (for any choice of $ell$). Do you have a reference for the kind of arguments you alluded to at the end of your answer?
$endgroup$
– Emmanuel Lecouturier
Jan 28 at 9:50
$begingroup$
Thanks! I was looking for a more precise bound, at most linear in $p$. For instance, if $pgeq 37$ then I expect that the smallest good prime is $leq fracp-112$ (for any choice of $ell$). Do you have a reference for the kind of arguments you alluded to at the end of your answer?
$endgroup$
– Emmanuel Lecouturier
Jan 28 at 9:50
1
1
$begingroup$
You can search the literature for "least quadratic nonresidue" (the $ell=2$ case, which is a good model for the structure of such arguments) and then "least character nonresidue".
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
Jan 28 at 17:57
$begingroup$
You can search the literature for "least quadratic nonresidue" (the $ell=2$ case, which is a good model for the structure of such arguments) and then "least character nonresidue".
$endgroup$
– Greg Martin
Jan 28 at 17:57
add a comment |
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