Proving that if x^4 + 5x + 1 < 27 then x < 2
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I need help trying to figure out how I can prove a statement like this. So looking at this I can conclude that this statement is of the form P -> Q
P : x^4 + 5x + 1 < 27
Q : x < 2
I wanted to try and prove this by contrapositive , so this state would become
If X>=2 then x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 27
Over here I was not sure if I could plug in the value 2 or anythin greater than 2 to see if this is true. plugging in 2 gets me 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27 and since 27>=27 this statement is True.
Am I allowed to prove it like this? Is there a different way to prove a question like this? Any help would be appreciated thank you.
proof-verification proof-writing proof-explanation
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I need help trying to figure out how I can prove a statement like this. So looking at this I can conclude that this statement is of the form P -> Q
P : x^4 + 5x + 1 < 27
Q : x < 2
I wanted to try and prove this by contrapositive , so this state would become
If X>=2 then x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 27
Over here I was not sure if I could plug in the value 2 or anythin greater than 2 to see if this is true. plugging in 2 gets me 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27 and since 27>=27 this statement is True.
Am I allowed to prove it like this? Is there a different way to prove a question like this? Any help would be appreciated thank you.
proof-verification proof-writing proof-explanation
No, you have to prove for a general $xgeq 2$. It might work for a specific value but not in general. That is the problem with your approach
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
If $x ge 2$ then $x^4 + 5x +1 ge 16+10+1 = 27$.
â copper.hat
1 hour ago
You can use that for $cge0$, $age b$ implies $acge bc$. So for $xge 2$ (and thereby $x>0$) we have $x^2ge 2xge 4$, $x^3ge 2x^2ge 8$, $x^4ge 2x^3ge 16$, and hence by addimg the inequality $x^4+4x+1ge 16+10+1=27$ indeed
â Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I need help trying to figure out how I can prove a statement like this. So looking at this I can conclude that this statement is of the form P -> Q
P : x^4 + 5x + 1 < 27
Q : x < 2
I wanted to try and prove this by contrapositive , so this state would become
If X>=2 then x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 27
Over here I was not sure if I could plug in the value 2 or anythin greater than 2 to see if this is true. plugging in 2 gets me 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27 and since 27>=27 this statement is True.
Am I allowed to prove it like this? Is there a different way to prove a question like this? Any help would be appreciated thank you.
proof-verification proof-writing proof-explanation
I need help trying to figure out how I can prove a statement like this. So looking at this I can conclude that this statement is of the form P -> Q
P : x^4 + 5x + 1 < 27
Q : x < 2
I wanted to try and prove this by contrapositive , so this state would become
If X>=2 then x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 27
Over here I was not sure if I could plug in the value 2 or anythin greater than 2 to see if this is true. plugging in 2 gets me 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27 and since 27>=27 this statement is True.
Am I allowed to prove it like this? Is there a different way to prove a question like this? Any help would be appreciated thank you.
proof-verification proof-writing proof-explanation
proof-verification proof-writing proof-explanation
asked 1 hour ago
Rufyi
355
355
No, you have to prove for a general $xgeq 2$. It might work for a specific value but not in general. That is the problem with your approach
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
If $x ge 2$ then $x^4 + 5x +1 ge 16+10+1 = 27$.
â copper.hat
1 hour ago
You can use that for $cge0$, $age b$ implies $acge bc$. So for $xge 2$ (and thereby $x>0$) we have $x^2ge 2xge 4$, $x^3ge 2x^2ge 8$, $x^4ge 2x^3ge 16$, and hence by addimg the inequality $x^4+4x+1ge 16+10+1=27$ indeed
â Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
No, you have to prove for a general $xgeq 2$. It might work for a specific value but not in general. That is the problem with your approach
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
If $x ge 2$ then $x^4 + 5x +1 ge 16+10+1 = 27$.
â copper.hat
1 hour ago
You can use that for $cge0$, $age b$ implies $acge bc$. So for $xge 2$ (and thereby $x>0$) we have $x^2ge 2xge 4$, $x^3ge 2x^2ge 8$, $x^4ge 2x^3ge 16$, and hence by addimg the inequality $x^4+4x+1ge 16+10+1=27$ indeed
â Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago
No, you have to prove for a general $xgeq 2$. It might work for a specific value but not in general. That is the problem with your approach
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
No, you have to prove for a general $xgeq 2$. It might work for a specific value but not in general. That is the problem with your approach
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
If $x ge 2$ then $x^4 + 5x +1 ge 16+10+1 = 27$.
â copper.hat
1 hour ago
If $x ge 2$ then $x^4 + 5x +1 ge 16+10+1 = 27$.
â copper.hat
1 hour ago
You can use that for $cge0$, $age b$ implies $acge bc$. So for $xge 2$ (and thereby $x>0$) we have $x^2ge 2xge 4$, $x^3ge 2x^2ge 8$, $x^4ge 2x^3ge 16$, and hence by addimg the inequality $x^4+4x+1ge 16+10+1=27$ indeed
â Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago
You can use that for $cge0$, $age b$ implies $acge bc$. So for $xge 2$ (and thereby $x>0$) we have $x^2ge 2xge 4$, $x^3ge 2x^2ge 8$, $x^4ge 2x^3ge 16$, and hence by addimg the inequality $x^4+4x+1ge 16+10+1=27$ indeed
â Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Suppose $xgeq2$. Then $x^4geq16implies x^4
+5xgeq16+5xgeq 16+...$. Got the hint?
Are you trying to make the left side look like what we need to prove?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
If I start from x^4 >= 16, I would get x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 16 + 5x + 1, can i plug in 2 in for 5x on the right side?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes exactly!...
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Can I do what I said in the second comment?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes when you plug in 2, you get 27 on the right side thus proving $x^4+5x+1geq 27$
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
A marginally different take:
Let $p(x) = x^4+5x-26$, we would like to show that if $p(x)<0$ then $x <2$.
Note that $p(2) = 0$ and so synthetic division gives $p(x) = (x-2)(x^3+2x^2+4x+13)$.
In particular, note that $x^3+2x^2+4x+13$ has no positive roots. Hence if $x ge 0$,
we see that $p(x)$ and $x-2$ have the same sign, hence if $p(x) < 0$ we must have
$x < 2$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Trying to show the contrapositive is a valid method, but you aren't allowed to just give an example. For example, if you wanted to prove that
$$xgeq 2implies x^4+5x+1leq 27,$$
which is false for example at $x=0$, you can't just give the example of $x=2$.
One hint for trying to prove this is to show that $f(x)=x^4+5x+1$ is increasing over the positive real numbers - in other words, assume that $0<a<b$ and show that $f(b)>f(a)$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
If $xge 2$ is it true that $x^4 ge 16$?
If $x ge 2$ is it true that $5x ge 10$?
So if $x ge 2$ is it true that $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge 16 + 10 + 1 = 27$?
...
It could get tedious to go to axioms and prove that if $xge 2 > 0$ then $x^4 ge 2x^3 ge 4x^2 ge 8x ge 16$ via the axiom: if $a > 0$ and $m < n$ then $am < an$ (applied three times); and $5 > 0$ so $xge 2 implies 5x ge 2*5 =10$ by the same axiom; and by the axiom $a + c > b + c iff a > b$ then $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge x^4 + 10 + 1 ge 16+ 10 + 1=27$. But I think it is safe to assume if we had to prove those we could.
This may be tedious over kill but:
If $x ge 2$ then let $d = x - 2 ge 0$. Then $x = 2 + d$
Now because $d ge 0$ then $d^k ge 0$.
So $x^4 = (2 + d)^4 = 2^4 + 4*2^3*d + 6*2^2*d^2 + 4*2*d^3 + d^4 ge 2^4$
And $5x = 5*(2+d) = 5*2 + 5*d ge 5*2$
So $x^4 + 5x + 1ge 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27$.
That should do it.....
add a comment |Â
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Suppose $xgeq2$. Then $x^4geq16implies x^4
+5xgeq16+5xgeq 16+...$. Got the hint?
Are you trying to make the left side look like what we need to prove?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
If I start from x^4 >= 16, I would get x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 16 + 5x + 1, can i plug in 2 in for 5x on the right side?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes exactly!...
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Can I do what I said in the second comment?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes when you plug in 2, you get 27 on the right side thus proving $x^4+5x+1geq 27$
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Suppose $xgeq2$. Then $x^4geq16implies x^4
+5xgeq16+5xgeq 16+...$. Got the hint?
Are you trying to make the left side look like what we need to prove?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
If I start from x^4 >= 16, I would get x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 16 + 5x + 1, can i plug in 2 in for 5x on the right side?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes exactly!...
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Can I do what I said in the second comment?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes when you plug in 2, you get 27 on the right side thus proving $x^4+5x+1geq 27$
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
up vote
3
down vote
accepted
Suppose $xgeq2$. Then $x^4geq16implies x^4
+5xgeq16+5xgeq 16+...$. Got the hint?
Suppose $xgeq2$. Then $x^4geq16implies x^4
+5xgeq16+5xgeq 16+...$. Got the hint?
answered 1 hour ago
Heisenberg
1,3911639
1,3911639
Are you trying to make the left side look like what we need to prove?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
If I start from x^4 >= 16, I would get x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 16 + 5x + 1, can i plug in 2 in for 5x on the right side?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes exactly!...
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Can I do what I said in the second comment?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes when you plug in 2, you get 27 on the right side thus proving $x^4+5x+1geq 27$
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
Are you trying to make the left side look like what we need to prove?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
If I start from x^4 >= 16, I would get x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 16 + 5x + 1, can i plug in 2 in for 5x on the right side?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes exactly!...
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Can I do what I said in the second comment?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes when you plug in 2, you get 27 on the right side thus proving $x^4+5x+1geq 27$
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Are you trying to make the left side look like what we need to prove?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Are you trying to make the left side look like what we need to prove?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
If I start from x^4 >= 16, I would get x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 16 + 5x + 1, can i plug in 2 in for 5x on the right side?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
If I start from x^4 >= 16, I would get x^4 + 5x + 1 >= 16 + 5x + 1, can i plug in 2 in for 5x on the right side?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes exactly!...
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Yes exactly!...
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Can I do what I said in the second comment?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Can I do what I said in the second comment?
â Rufyi
1 hour ago
Yes when you plug in 2, you get 27 on the right side thus proving $x^4+5x+1geq 27$
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
Yes when you plug in 2, you get 27 on the right side thus proving $x^4+5x+1geq 27$
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
A marginally different take:
Let $p(x) = x^4+5x-26$, we would like to show that if $p(x)<0$ then $x <2$.
Note that $p(2) = 0$ and so synthetic division gives $p(x) = (x-2)(x^3+2x^2+4x+13)$.
In particular, note that $x^3+2x^2+4x+13$ has no positive roots. Hence if $x ge 0$,
we see that $p(x)$ and $x-2$ have the same sign, hence if $p(x) < 0$ we must have
$x < 2$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
A marginally different take:
Let $p(x) = x^4+5x-26$, we would like to show that if $p(x)<0$ then $x <2$.
Note that $p(2) = 0$ and so synthetic division gives $p(x) = (x-2)(x^3+2x^2+4x+13)$.
In particular, note that $x^3+2x^2+4x+13$ has no positive roots. Hence if $x ge 0$,
we see that $p(x)$ and $x-2$ have the same sign, hence if $p(x) < 0$ we must have
$x < 2$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
A marginally different take:
Let $p(x) = x^4+5x-26$, we would like to show that if $p(x)<0$ then $x <2$.
Note that $p(2) = 0$ and so synthetic division gives $p(x) = (x-2)(x^3+2x^2+4x+13)$.
In particular, note that $x^3+2x^2+4x+13$ has no positive roots. Hence if $x ge 0$,
we see that $p(x)$ and $x-2$ have the same sign, hence if $p(x) < 0$ we must have
$x < 2$.
A marginally different take:
Let $p(x) = x^4+5x-26$, we would like to show that if $p(x)<0$ then $x <2$.
Note that $p(2) = 0$ and so synthetic division gives $p(x) = (x-2)(x^3+2x^2+4x+13)$.
In particular, note that $x^3+2x^2+4x+13$ has no positive roots. Hence if $x ge 0$,
we see that $p(x)$ and $x-2$ have the same sign, hence if $p(x) < 0$ we must have
$x < 2$.
answered 1 hour ago
copper.hat
124k558156
124k558156
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Trying to show the contrapositive is a valid method, but you aren't allowed to just give an example. For example, if you wanted to prove that
$$xgeq 2implies x^4+5x+1leq 27,$$
which is false for example at $x=0$, you can't just give the example of $x=2$.
One hint for trying to prove this is to show that $f(x)=x^4+5x+1$ is increasing over the positive real numbers - in other words, assume that $0<a<b$ and show that $f(b)>f(a)$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
Trying to show the contrapositive is a valid method, but you aren't allowed to just give an example. For example, if you wanted to prove that
$$xgeq 2implies x^4+5x+1leq 27,$$
which is false for example at $x=0$, you can't just give the example of $x=2$.
One hint for trying to prove this is to show that $f(x)=x^4+5x+1$ is increasing over the positive real numbers - in other words, assume that $0<a<b$ and show that $f(b)>f(a)$.
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Trying to show the contrapositive is a valid method, but you aren't allowed to just give an example. For example, if you wanted to prove that
$$xgeq 2implies x^4+5x+1leq 27,$$
which is false for example at $x=0$, you can't just give the example of $x=2$.
One hint for trying to prove this is to show that $f(x)=x^4+5x+1$ is increasing over the positive real numbers - in other words, assume that $0<a<b$ and show that $f(b)>f(a)$.
Trying to show the contrapositive is a valid method, but you aren't allowed to just give an example. For example, if you wanted to prove that
$$xgeq 2implies x^4+5x+1leq 27,$$
which is false for example at $x=0$, you can't just give the example of $x=2$.
One hint for trying to prove this is to show that $f(x)=x^4+5x+1$ is increasing over the positive real numbers - in other words, assume that $0<a<b$ and show that $f(b)>f(a)$.
answered 1 hour ago
Carl Schildkraut
9,82911238
9,82911238
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
If $xge 2$ is it true that $x^4 ge 16$?
If $x ge 2$ is it true that $5x ge 10$?
So if $x ge 2$ is it true that $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge 16 + 10 + 1 = 27$?
...
It could get tedious to go to axioms and prove that if $xge 2 > 0$ then $x^4 ge 2x^3 ge 4x^2 ge 8x ge 16$ via the axiom: if $a > 0$ and $m < n$ then $am < an$ (applied three times); and $5 > 0$ so $xge 2 implies 5x ge 2*5 =10$ by the same axiom; and by the axiom $a + c > b + c iff a > b$ then $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge x^4 + 10 + 1 ge 16+ 10 + 1=27$. But I think it is safe to assume if we had to prove those we could.
This may be tedious over kill but:
If $x ge 2$ then let $d = x - 2 ge 0$. Then $x = 2 + d$
Now because $d ge 0$ then $d^k ge 0$.
So $x^4 = (2 + d)^4 = 2^4 + 4*2^3*d + 6*2^2*d^2 + 4*2*d^3 + d^4 ge 2^4$
And $5x = 5*(2+d) = 5*2 + 5*d ge 5*2$
So $x^4 + 5x + 1ge 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27$.
That should do it.....
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
If $xge 2$ is it true that $x^4 ge 16$?
If $x ge 2$ is it true that $5x ge 10$?
So if $x ge 2$ is it true that $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge 16 + 10 + 1 = 27$?
...
It could get tedious to go to axioms and prove that if $xge 2 > 0$ then $x^4 ge 2x^3 ge 4x^2 ge 8x ge 16$ via the axiom: if $a > 0$ and $m < n$ then $am < an$ (applied three times); and $5 > 0$ so $xge 2 implies 5x ge 2*5 =10$ by the same axiom; and by the axiom $a + c > b + c iff a > b$ then $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge x^4 + 10 + 1 ge 16+ 10 + 1=27$. But I think it is safe to assume if we had to prove those we could.
This may be tedious over kill but:
If $x ge 2$ then let $d = x - 2 ge 0$. Then $x = 2 + d$
Now because $d ge 0$ then $d^k ge 0$.
So $x^4 = (2 + d)^4 = 2^4 + 4*2^3*d + 6*2^2*d^2 + 4*2*d^3 + d^4 ge 2^4$
And $5x = 5*(2+d) = 5*2 + 5*d ge 5*2$
So $x^4 + 5x + 1ge 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27$.
That should do it.....
add a comment |Â
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
If $xge 2$ is it true that $x^4 ge 16$?
If $x ge 2$ is it true that $5x ge 10$?
So if $x ge 2$ is it true that $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge 16 + 10 + 1 = 27$?
...
It could get tedious to go to axioms and prove that if $xge 2 > 0$ then $x^4 ge 2x^3 ge 4x^2 ge 8x ge 16$ via the axiom: if $a > 0$ and $m < n$ then $am < an$ (applied three times); and $5 > 0$ so $xge 2 implies 5x ge 2*5 =10$ by the same axiom; and by the axiom $a + c > b + c iff a > b$ then $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge x^4 + 10 + 1 ge 16+ 10 + 1=27$. But I think it is safe to assume if we had to prove those we could.
This may be tedious over kill but:
If $x ge 2$ then let $d = x - 2 ge 0$. Then $x = 2 + d$
Now because $d ge 0$ then $d^k ge 0$.
So $x^4 = (2 + d)^4 = 2^4 + 4*2^3*d + 6*2^2*d^2 + 4*2*d^3 + d^4 ge 2^4$
And $5x = 5*(2+d) = 5*2 + 5*d ge 5*2$
So $x^4 + 5x + 1ge 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27$.
That should do it.....
If $xge 2$ is it true that $x^4 ge 16$?
If $x ge 2$ is it true that $5x ge 10$?
So if $x ge 2$ is it true that $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge 16 + 10 + 1 = 27$?
...
It could get tedious to go to axioms and prove that if $xge 2 > 0$ then $x^4 ge 2x^3 ge 4x^2 ge 8x ge 16$ via the axiom: if $a > 0$ and $m < n$ then $am < an$ (applied three times); and $5 > 0$ so $xge 2 implies 5x ge 2*5 =10$ by the same axiom; and by the axiom $a + c > b + c iff a > b$ then $x^4 + 5x + 1 ge x^4 + 10 + 1 ge 16+ 10 + 1=27$. But I think it is safe to assume if we had to prove those we could.
This may be tedious over kill but:
If $x ge 2$ then let $d = x - 2 ge 0$. Then $x = 2 + d$
Now because $d ge 0$ then $d^k ge 0$.
So $x^4 = (2 + d)^4 = 2^4 + 4*2^3*d + 6*2^2*d^2 + 4*2*d^3 + d^4 ge 2^4$
And $5x = 5*(2+d) = 5*2 + 5*d ge 5*2$
So $x^4 + 5x + 1ge 2^4 + 5*2 + 1 = 27$.
That should do it.....
edited 39 mins ago
answered 51 mins ago
fleablood
63.4k22679
63.4k22679
add a comment |Â
add a comment |Â
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No, you have to prove for a general $xgeq 2$. It might work for a specific value but not in general. That is the problem with your approach
â Heisenberg
1 hour ago
If $x ge 2$ then $x^4 + 5x +1 ge 16+10+1 = 27$.
â copper.hat
1 hour ago
You can use that for $cge0$, $age b$ implies $acge bc$. So for $xge 2$ (and thereby $x>0$) we have $x^2ge 2xge 4$, $x^3ge 2x^2ge 8$, $x^4ge 2x^3ge 16$, and hence by addimg the inequality $x^4+4x+1ge 16+10+1=27$ indeed
â Hagen von Eitzen
1 hour ago