Is this planetary moon's calendar possible?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
9
down vote

favorite












I'm attempting to create a world that has very brutal, hard swinging weather and environments, leaving much of the planet desert-like. The world I've designed is a moon of a gas giant.



The Parent Planet



This planet is a gas giant orbiting a sun smaller and cooler than our own. It's closer than the goldilocks zone of this star, so it is quite warm. It has a wide band of rings, and a single moon orbiting closer to the planet than the rings.



The Moon World



The moon is earth sized, not tidally locked, and experiences days similar in length to earth days, and its orbit is about 40 of these days. Most of the year, due to the rings, this planet has a band at the equator of essentially arctic tundra, never seeing sunlight. However, due to the axial tilt of the parent planet, and the moon's slightly erratic orbit, each hemisphere spends a quarter of the year (Each year being about four orbits, or 160 days) more and more in the shadow of the rings, making for one very, very cold orbit (-40F, -40C at night). On the other side of the year, with one hemisphere out of the shadow of the rings entirely, the surface becomes blazing hot, reaching regular temperatures of 120F (49C) During the day. During the other two orbits, with some shadow from the outer rings, temperatures are more stable and around 80-60F (27-16C) high and 60-40F (16-4C) low.



Question



Is this proposed moon possible? Would it act how I expect it to? If not, can I fix it? Bonus points for pointing out any cool and unexpected visual effects.










share|improve this question



















  • 1




    tidally not locked moon of a giant planet is possible only if it is very far from it. But then optical effects of the rings are negligible.
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 21:59














up vote
9
down vote

favorite












I'm attempting to create a world that has very brutal, hard swinging weather and environments, leaving much of the planet desert-like. The world I've designed is a moon of a gas giant.



The Parent Planet



This planet is a gas giant orbiting a sun smaller and cooler than our own. It's closer than the goldilocks zone of this star, so it is quite warm. It has a wide band of rings, and a single moon orbiting closer to the planet than the rings.



The Moon World



The moon is earth sized, not tidally locked, and experiences days similar in length to earth days, and its orbit is about 40 of these days. Most of the year, due to the rings, this planet has a band at the equator of essentially arctic tundra, never seeing sunlight. However, due to the axial tilt of the parent planet, and the moon's slightly erratic orbit, each hemisphere spends a quarter of the year (Each year being about four orbits, or 160 days) more and more in the shadow of the rings, making for one very, very cold orbit (-40F, -40C at night). On the other side of the year, with one hemisphere out of the shadow of the rings entirely, the surface becomes blazing hot, reaching regular temperatures of 120F (49C) During the day. During the other two orbits, with some shadow from the outer rings, temperatures are more stable and around 80-60F (27-16C) high and 60-40F (16-4C) low.



Question



Is this proposed moon possible? Would it act how I expect it to? If not, can I fix it? Bonus points for pointing out any cool and unexpected visual effects.










share|improve this question



















  • 1




    tidally not locked moon of a giant planet is possible only if it is very far from it. But then optical effects of the rings are negligible.
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 21:59












up vote
9
down vote

favorite









up vote
9
down vote

favorite











I'm attempting to create a world that has very brutal, hard swinging weather and environments, leaving much of the planet desert-like. The world I've designed is a moon of a gas giant.



The Parent Planet



This planet is a gas giant orbiting a sun smaller and cooler than our own. It's closer than the goldilocks zone of this star, so it is quite warm. It has a wide band of rings, and a single moon orbiting closer to the planet than the rings.



The Moon World



The moon is earth sized, not tidally locked, and experiences days similar in length to earth days, and its orbit is about 40 of these days. Most of the year, due to the rings, this planet has a band at the equator of essentially arctic tundra, never seeing sunlight. However, due to the axial tilt of the parent planet, and the moon's slightly erratic orbit, each hemisphere spends a quarter of the year (Each year being about four orbits, or 160 days) more and more in the shadow of the rings, making for one very, very cold orbit (-40F, -40C at night). On the other side of the year, with one hemisphere out of the shadow of the rings entirely, the surface becomes blazing hot, reaching regular temperatures of 120F (49C) During the day. During the other two orbits, with some shadow from the outer rings, temperatures are more stable and around 80-60F (27-16C) high and 60-40F (16-4C) low.



Question



Is this proposed moon possible? Would it act how I expect it to? If not, can I fix it? Bonus points for pointing out any cool and unexpected visual effects.










share|improve this question















I'm attempting to create a world that has very brutal, hard swinging weather and environments, leaving much of the planet desert-like. The world I've designed is a moon of a gas giant.



The Parent Planet



This planet is a gas giant orbiting a sun smaller and cooler than our own. It's closer than the goldilocks zone of this star, so it is quite warm. It has a wide band of rings, and a single moon orbiting closer to the planet than the rings.



The Moon World



The moon is earth sized, not tidally locked, and experiences days similar in length to earth days, and its orbit is about 40 of these days. Most of the year, due to the rings, this planet has a band at the equator of essentially arctic tundra, never seeing sunlight. However, due to the axial tilt of the parent planet, and the moon's slightly erratic orbit, each hemisphere spends a quarter of the year (Each year being about four orbits, or 160 days) more and more in the shadow of the rings, making for one very, very cold orbit (-40F, -40C at night). On the other side of the year, with one hemisphere out of the shadow of the rings entirely, the surface becomes blazing hot, reaching regular temperatures of 120F (49C) During the day. During the other two orbits, with some shadow from the outer rings, temperatures are more stable and around 80-60F (27-16C) high and 60-40F (16-4C) low.



Question



Is this proposed moon possible? Would it act how I expect it to? If not, can I fix it? Bonus points for pointing out any cool and unexpected visual effects.







science-based reality-check planets moons






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Sep 21 at 20:16

























asked Sep 21 at 19:48









Skyler

3057




3057







  • 1




    tidally not locked moon of a giant planet is possible only if it is very far from it. But then optical effects of the rings are negligible.
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 21:59












  • 1




    tidally not locked moon of a giant planet is possible only if it is very far from it. But then optical effects of the rings are negligible.
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 21:59







1




1




tidally not locked moon of a giant planet is possible only if it is very far from it. But then optical effects of the rings are negligible.
– Gangnus
Sep 21 at 21:59




tidally not locked moon of a giant planet is possible only if it is very far from it. But then optical effects of the rings are negligible.
– Gangnus
Sep 21 at 21:59










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
5
down vote














(In answer to the original question: Is it possible to have a planetary moon closer than rings?)




It doesn't really make sense.



Rings and moons aren't unrelated features that just happen anywhere around a planet. Rings are what happen when a moon is too close to its parent planet, i.e., when it is inside its Roche Limit



It's theoretically possible, if you had a really, really dense moon (e.g., pure osmium) orbiting just inside the rings that resulted from a really, really light moon (water ice), but it would be a very contrived situation.






share|improve this answer






















  • Thanks! I'm ok with it being bordeline impossible... As long as it is. The real concern is the proposed calendar. I'll edit for clarity.
    – Skyler
    Sep 21 at 20:15










  • Any close satellite initiates a ring closer to the planet. This fact was found in 80-ties. So, even if there will be an inner heavy satellite, there will be one more ring inside its orbit. Rings APPEAR according to Roche radiuses, but they later move to other places, according to the satellites scheme.
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 21:54










  • @Gangnus So it would technically be possible to have older rings that have an ascending orbit, and have a moon be formed closer than the rings?
    – Skyler
    Sep 21 at 22:28










  • @Skyler 1. Each close satellite creates a stable zone for a ring UNDER it. 2. A satellite can exist ABOVE Roche radius only. 3. If a satellite goes under the R.radius, it fells apart and can become a ring. 4. Processes on low orbits go faster. .. How can the innermost satellite not to have its ring? Oh! Its ring can be eaten by atmosphere!
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 23:16










  • An edit and an upvote! ;-)
    – Fabby
    Sep 22 at 1:53

















up vote
2
down vote













So... the moon's existence might be possible given the planet's own position and composition. But for the smaller details like the tidal lock and the temperature, I'm not so sure about.



Planets form from leftover debris from the formation of a star; rocks and solids usually orbit closer to the star as further out the gravitational field would be too weak to lock them in orbit. However, gas giants can only form within the larger clouds of gas and ice further out as only there are the materials abundant enough to make them 'giant'; like the gas giants within our own solar system.



There would have had to be some kind of push from another celestial body to nudge it that close to the star.
And yeah, there's a precedent for this happening:
http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoveries/discovering_planets_beyond/how-do-planets-form



So now you need a large celestial body to give a gravitational nudge to the planet. And there you might be able to explain some of the rings; some pieces from a nearby asteroid belt were thrown away by its gravitational field and nudged it ever closer to the star while others were trapped in the field and began orbiting it as rings.



The moon could be what's called a "Shepherd Moon"-- one that orbits in the very inner or outer circle of the rings. After some more research I don't think it's possible for a moon to form any closer than the shepherd moons in the rings (which keep them from clumping and collapsing onto the planet), there's a lot that can happen in space and the possibility it could occur might be very unlikely but still possible with some extreme circumstances and a bit of glossing over.
https://www.iflscience.com/space/how-saturns-shepherd-moons-herd-its-rings/
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26643/why-arent-saturns-rings-clumping-into-moons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_system



It's not the best explanation, but this could suffice as a placeholder until something better comes along.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    There is no 'shadow of the rings'



    Saturn's majestic A ring is 10-30 meters thick; overall the rings of that planet range from 10 meters to 1 km thick.



    The asteroid belt is a 'ring' around the Sun. That, too, is not dense enough to block the sun. In this answer, I show that if the asteroid belt was ground down into particles 100g in mass, each particle would have 1530 km$^2$ of space to itself; each particle would be about 14 km from the next particle.



    Rings just aren't thick enough to create an appreciable shadow.






    share|improve this answer




















    • Yes, but these rings wouldn't be casting a straight - on shadow. Saturn's rings are about 282,000km across, if they were casting a shadow on only half the planet, the diagonal of the rings would be much, much thicker.
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 20:30










    • In fact, with some quick trig, considering the width of the rings (282,000) and the half-width of an earth-like planet being only 6371km, the angle of the rings would be 88.6, if they perfectly tilted to cover half the planet, making the percieved width of the rings almost the entire width of the rings... certainly enough to cast an appreciably thick shadow.
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 20:42










    • @Skyler Yeah, but they are 10 meters thick, and they are not solid. Density is like 0.02 g/cm^3; barely more than a gas. The only way they can shade the sun is end-on; and in that case they are too thin.
      – kingledion
      Sep 21 at 20:45






    • 2




      That is objectively incorrect based on observation of our own solar system. quora.com/Does-Saturns-ring-cast-shadows
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 20:48






    • 1




      @Skyler Those are long exposure pictures; the long exposure heightens the contrast between light and shade. The luminosity difference is nowhere near close enough to make a tundra zone.
      – kingledion
      Sep 21 at 20:52










    Your Answer




    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    );
    );
    , "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "579"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: false,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













     

    draft saved


    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f125711%2fis-this-planetary-moons-calendar-possible%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest






























    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes








    3 Answers
    3






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    5
    down vote














    (In answer to the original question: Is it possible to have a planetary moon closer than rings?)




    It doesn't really make sense.



    Rings and moons aren't unrelated features that just happen anywhere around a planet. Rings are what happen when a moon is too close to its parent planet, i.e., when it is inside its Roche Limit



    It's theoretically possible, if you had a really, really dense moon (e.g., pure osmium) orbiting just inside the rings that resulted from a really, really light moon (water ice), but it would be a very contrived situation.






    share|improve this answer






















    • Thanks! I'm ok with it being bordeline impossible... As long as it is. The real concern is the proposed calendar. I'll edit for clarity.
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 20:15










    • Any close satellite initiates a ring closer to the planet. This fact was found in 80-ties. So, even if there will be an inner heavy satellite, there will be one more ring inside its orbit. Rings APPEAR according to Roche radiuses, but they later move to other places, according to the satellites scheme.
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 21:54










    • @Gangnus So it would technically be possible to have older rings that have an ascending orbit, and have a moon be formed closer than the rings?
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 22:28










    • @Skyler 1. Each close satellite creates a stable zone for a ring UNDER it. 2. A satellite can exist ABOVE Roche radius only. 3. If a satellite goes under the R.radius, it fells apart and can become a ring. 4. Processes on low orbits go faster. .. How can the innermost satellite not to have its ring? Oh! Its ring can be eaten by atmosphere!
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 23:16










    • An edit and an upvote! ;-)
      – Fabby
      Sep 22 at 1:53














    up vote
    5
    down vote














    (In answer to the original question: Is it possible to have a planetary moon closer than rings?)




    It doesn't really make sense.



    Rings and moons aren't unrelated features that just happen anywhere around a planet. Rings are what happen when a moon is too close to its parent planet, i.e., when it is inside its Roche Limit



    It's theoretically possible, if you had a really, really dense moon (e.g., pure osmium) orbiting just inside the rings that resulted from a really, really light moon (water ice), but it would be a very contrived situation.






    share|improve this answer






















    • Thanks! I'm ok with it being bordeline impossible... As long as it is. The real concern is the proposed calendar. I'll edit for clarity.
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 20:15










    • Any close satellite initiates a ring closer to the planet. This fact was found in 80-ties. So, even if there will be an inner heavy satellite, there will be one more ring inside its orbit. Rings APPEAR according to Roche radiuses, but they later move to other places, according to the satellites scheme.
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 21:54










    • @Gangnus So it would technically be possible to have older rings that have an ascending orbit, and have a moon be formed closer than the rings?
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 22:28










    • @Skyler 1. Each close satellite creates a stable zone for a ring UNDER it. 2. A satellite can exist ABOVE Roche radius only. 3. If a satellite goes under the R.radius, it fells apart and can become a ring. 4. Processes on low orbits go faster. .. How can the innermost satellite not to have its ring? Oh! Its ring can be eaten by atmosphere!
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 23:16










    • An edit and an upvote! ;-)
      – Fabby
      Sep 22 at 1:53












    up vote
    5
    down vote










    up vote
    5
    down vote










    (In answer to the original question: Is it possible to have a planetary moon closer than rings?)




    It doesn't really make sense.



    Rings and moons aren't unrelated features that just happen anywhere around a planet. Rings are what happen when a moon is too close to its parent planet, i.e., when it is inside its Roche Limit



    It's theoretically possible, if you had a really, really dense moon (e.g., pure osmium) orbiting just inside the rings that resulted from a really, really light moon (water ice), but it would be a very contrived situation.






    share|improve this answer















    (In answer to the original question: Is it possible to have a planetary moon closer than rings?)




    It doesn't really make sense.



    Rings and moons aren't unrelated features that just happen anywhere around a planet. Rings are what happen when a moon is too close to its parent planet, i.e., when it is inside its Roche Limit



    It's theoretically possible, if you had a really, really dense moon (e.g., pure osmium) orbiting just inside the rings that resulted from a really, really light moon (water ice), but it would be a very contrived situation.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Sep 22 at 2:13









    Cadence

    9,83451840




    9,83451840










    answered Sep 21 at 20:11









    Qami

    2,087417




    2,087417











    • Thanks! I'm ok with it being bordeline impossible... As long as it is. The real concern is the proposed calendar. I'll edit for clarity.
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 20:15










    • Any close satellite initiates a ring closer to the planet. This fact was found in 80-ties. So, even if there will be an inner heavy satellite, there will be one more ring inside its orbit. Rings APPEAR according to Roche radiuses, but they later move to other places, according to the satellites scheme.
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 21:54










    • @Gangnus So it would technically be possible to have older rings that have an ascending orbit, and have a moon be formed closer than the rings?
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 22:28










    • @Skyler 1. Each close satellite creates a stable zone for a ring UNDER it. 2. A satellite can exist ABOVE Roche radius only. 3. If a satellite goes under the R.radius, it fells apart and can become a ring. 4. Processes on low orbits go faster. .. How can the innermost satellite not to have its ring? Oh! Its ring can be eaten by atmosphere!
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 23:16










    • An edit and an upvote! ;-)
      – Fabby
      Sep 22 at 1:53
















    • Thanks! I'm ok with it being bordeline impossible... As long as it is. The real concern is the proposed calendar. I'll edit for clarity.
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 20:15










    • Any close satellite initiates a ring closer to the planet. This fact was found in 80-ties. So, even if there will be an inner heavy satellite, there will be one more ring inside its orbit. Rings APPEAR according to Roche radiuses, but they later move to other places, according to the satellites scheme.
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 21:54










    • @Gangnus So it would technically be possible to have older rings that have an ascending orbit, and have a moon be formed closer than the rings?
      – Skyler
      Sep 21 at 22:28










    • @Skyler 1. Each close satellite creates a stable zone for a ring UNDER it. 2. A satellite can exist ABOVE Roche radius only. 3. If a satellite goes under the R.radius, it fells apart and can become a ring. 4. Processes on low orbits go faster. .. How can the innermost satellite not to have its ring? Oh! Its ring can be eaten by atmosphere!
      – Gangnus
      Sep 21 at 23:16










    • An edit and an upvote! ;-)
      – Fabby
      Sep 22 at 1:53















    Thanks! I'm ok with it being bordeline impossible... As long as it is. The real concern is the proposed calendar. I'll edit for clarity.
    – Skyler
    Sep 21 at 20:15




    Thanks! I'm ok with it being bordeline impossible... As long as it is. The real concern is the proposed calendar. I'll edit for clarity.
    – Skyler
    Sep 21 at 20:15












    Any close satellite initiates a ring closer to the planet. This fact was found in 80-ties. So, even if there will be an inner heavy satellite, there will be one more ring inside its orbit. Rings APPEAR according to Roche radiuses, but they later move to other places, according to the satellites scheme.
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 21:54




    Any close satellite initiates a ring closer to the planet. This fact was found in 80-ties. So, even if there will be an inner heavy satellite, there will be one more ring inside its orbit. Rings APPEAR according to Roche radiuses, but they later move to other places, according to the satellites scheme.
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 21:54












    @Gangnus So it would technically be possible to have older rings that have an ascending orbit, and have a moon be formed closer than the rings?
    – Skyler
    Sep 21 at 22:28




    @Gangnus So it would technically be possible to have older rings that have an ascending orbit, and have a moon be formed closer than the rings?
    – Skyler
    Sep 21 at 22:28












    @Skyler 1. Each close satellite creates a stable zone for a ring UNDER it. 2. A satellite can exist ABOVE Roche radius only. 3. If a satellite goes under the R.radius, it fells apart and can become a ring. 4. Processes on low orbits go faster. .. How can the innermost satellite not to have its ring? Oh! Its ring can be eaten by atmosphere!
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 23:16




    @Skyler 1. Each close satellite creates a stable zone for a ring UNDER it. 2. A satellite can exist ABOVE Roche radius only. 3. If a satellite goes under the R.radius, it fells apart and can become a ring. 4. Processes on low orbits go faster. .. How can the innermost satellite not to have its ring? Oh! Its ring can be eaten by atmosphere!
    – Gangnus
    Sep 21 at 23:16












    An edit and an upvote! ;-)
    – Fabby
    Sep 22 at 1:53




    An edit and an upvote! ;-)
    – Fabby
    Sep 22 at 1:53










    up vote
    2
    down vote













    So... the moon's existence might be possible given the planet's own position and composition. But for the smaller details like the tidal lock and the temperature, I'm not so sure about.



    Planets form from leftover debris from the formation of a star; rocks and solids usually orbit closer to the star as further out the gravitational field would be too weak to lock them in orbit. However, gas giants can only form within the larger clouds of gas and ice further out as only there are the materials abundant enough to make them 'giant'; like the gas giants within our own solar system.



    There would have had to be some kind of push from another celestial body to nudge it that close to the star.
    And yeah, there's a precedent for this happening:
    http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoveries/discovering_planets_beyond/how-do-planets-form



    So now you need a large celestial body to give a gravitational nudge to the planet. And there you might be able to explain some of the rings; some pieces from a nearby asteroid belt were thrown away by its gravitational field and nudged it ever closer to the star while others were trapped in the field and began orbiting it as rings.



    The moon could be what's called a "Shepherd Moon"-- one that orbits in the very inner or outer circle of the rings. After some more research I don't think it's possible for a moon to form any closer than the shepherd moons in the rings (which keep them from clumping and collapsing onto the planet), there's a lot that can happen in space and the possibility it could occur might be very unlikely but still possible with some extreme circumstances and a bit of glossing over.
    https://www.iflscience.com/space/how-saturns-shepherd-moons-herd-its-rings/
    https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26643/why-arent-saturns-rings-clumping-into-moons
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_system



    It's not the best explanation, but this could suffice as a placeholder until something better comes along.






    share|improve this answer
























      up vote
      2
      down vote













      So... the moon's existence might be possible given the planet's own position and composition. But for the smaller details like the tidal lock and the temperature, I'm not so sure about.



      Planets form from leftover debris from the formation of a star; rocks and solids usually orbit closer to the star as further out the gravitational field would be too weak to lock them in orbit. However, gas giants can only form within the larger clouds of gas and ice further out as only there are the materials abundant enough to make them 'giant'; like the gas giants within our own solar system.



      There would have had to be some kind of push from another celestial body to nudge it that close to the star.
      And yeah, there's a precedent for this happening:
      http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoveries/discovering_planets_beyond/how-do-planets-form



      So now you need a large celestial body to give a gravitational nudge to the planet. And there you might be able to explain some of the rings; some pieces from a nearby asteroid belt were thrown away by its gravitational field and nudged it ever closer to the star while others were trapped in the field and began orbiting it as rings.



      The moon could be what's called a "Shepherd Moon"-- one that orbits in the very inner or outer circle of the rings. After some more research I don't think it's possible for a moon to form any closer than the shepherd moons in the rings (which keep them from clumping and collapsing onto the planet), there's a lot that can happen in space and the possibility it could occur might be very unlikely but still possible with some extreme circumstances and a bit of glossing over.
      https://www.iflscience.com/space/how-saturns-shepherd-moons-herd-its-rings/
      https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26643/why-arent-saturns-rings-clumping-into-moons
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_system



      It's not the best explanation, but this could suffice as a placeholder until something better comes along.






      share|improve this answer






















        up vote
        2
        down vote










        up vote
        2
        down vote









        So... the moon's existence might be possible given the planet's own position and composition. But for the smaller details like the tidal lock and the temperature, I'm not so sure about.



        Planets form from leftover debris from the formation of a star; rocks and solids usually orbit closer to the star as further out the gravitational field would be too weak to lock them in orbit. However, gas giants can only form within the larger clouds of gas and ice further out as only there are the materials abundant enough to make them 'giant'; like the gas giants within our own solar system.



        There would have had to be some kind of push from another celestial body to nudge it that close to the star.
        And yeah, there's a precedent for this happening:
        http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoveries/discovering_planets_beyond/how-do-planets-form



        So now you need a large celestial body to give a gravitational nudge to the planet. And there you might be able to explain some of the rings; some pieces from a nearby asteroid belt were thrown away by its gravitational field and nudged it ever closer to the star while others were trapped in the field and began orbiting it as rings.



        The moon could be what's called a "Shepherd Moon"-- one that orbits in the very inner or outer circle of the rings. After some more research I don't think it's possible for a moon to form any closer than the shepherd moons in the rings (which keep them from clumping and collapsing onto the planet), there's a lot that can happen in space and the possibility it could occur might be very unlikely but still possible with some extreme circumstances and a bit of glossing over.
        https://www.iflscience.com/space/how-saturns-shepherd-moons-herd-its-rings/
        https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26643/why-arent-saturns-rings-clumping-into-moons
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_system



        It's not the best explanation, but this could suffice as a placeholder until something better comes along.






        share|improve this answer












        So... the moon's existence might be possible given the planet's own position and composition. But for the smaller details like the tidal lock and the temperature, I'm not so sure about.



        Planets form from leftover debris from the formation of a star; rocks and solids usually orbit closer to the star as further out the gravitational field would be too weak to lock them in orbit. However, gas giants can only form within the larger clouds of gas and ice further out as only there are the materials abundant enough to make them 'giant'; like the gas giants within our own solar system.



        There would have had to be some kind of push from another celestial body to nudge it that close to the star.
        And yeah, there's a precedent for this happening:
        http://hubblesite.org/hubble_discoveries/discovering_planets_beyond/how-do-planets-form



        So now you need a large celestial body to give a gravitational nudge to the planet. And there you might be able to explain some of the rings; some pieces from a nearby asteroid belt were thrown away by its gravitational field and nudged it ever closer to the star while others were trapped in the field and began orbiting it as rings.



        The moon could be what's called a "Shepherd Moon"-- one that orbits in the very inner or outer circle of the rings. After some more research I don't think it's possible for a moon to form any closer than the shepherd moons in the rings (which keep them from clumping and collapsing onto the planet), there's a lot that can happen in space and the possibility it could occur might be very unlikely but still possible with some extreme circumstances and a bit of glossing over.
        https://www.iflscience.com/space/how-saturns-shepherd-moons-herd-its-rings/
        https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26643/why-arent-saturns-rings-clumping-into-moons
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_system



        It's not the best explanation, but this could suffice as a placeholder until something better comes along.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Sep 21 at 20:11









        Ely

        613




        613




















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            There is no 'shadow of the rings'



            Saturn's majestic A ring is 10-30 meters thick; overall the rings of that planet range from 10 meters to 1 km thick.



            The asteroid belt is a 'ring' around the Sun. That, too, is not dense enough to block the sun. In this answer, I show that if the asteroid belt was ground down into particles 100g in mass, each particle would have 1530 km$^2$ of space to itself; each particle would be about 14 km from the next particle.



            Rings just aren't thick enough to create an appreciable shadow.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Yes, but these rings wouldn't be casting a straight - on shadow. Saturn's rings are about 282,000km across, if they were casting a shadow on only half the planet, the diagonal of the rings would be much, much thicker.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:30










            • In fact, with some quick trig, considering the width of the rings (282,000) and the half-width of an earth-like planet being only 6371km, the angle of the rings would be 88.6, if they perfectly tilted to cover half the planet, making the percieved width of the rings almost the entire width of the rings... certainly enough to cast an appreciably thick shadow.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:42










            • @Skyler Yeah, but they are 10 meters thick, and they are not solid. Density is like 0.02 g/cm^3; barely more than a gas. The only way they can shade the sun is end-on; and in that case they are too thin.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:45






            • 2




              That is objectively incorrect based on observation of our own solar system. quora.com/Does-Saturns-ring-cast-shadows
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:48






            • 1




              @Skyler Those are long exposure pictures; the long exposure heightens the contrast between light and shade. The luminosity difference is nowhere near close enough to make a tundra zone.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:52














            up vote
            0
            down vote













            There is no 'shadow of the rings'



            Saturn's majestic A ring is 10-30 meters thick; overall the rings of that planet range from 10 meters to 1 km thick.



            The asteroid belt is a 'ring' around the Sun. That, too, is not dense enough to block the sun. In this answer, I show that if the asteroid belt was ground down into particles 100g in mass, each particle would have 1530 km$^2$ of space to itself; each particle would be about 14 km from the next particle.



            Rings just aren't thick enough to create an appreciable shadow.






            share|improve this answer




















            • Yes, but these rings wouldn't be casting a straight - on shadow. Saturn's rings are about 282,000km across, if they were casting a shadow on only half the planet, the diagonal of the rings would be much, much thicker.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:30










            • In fact, with some quick trig, considering the width of the rings (282,000) and the half-width of an earth-like planet being only 6371km, the angle of the rings would be 88.6, if they perfectly tilted to cover half the planet, making the percieved width of the rings almost the entire width of the rings... certainly enough to cast an appreciably thick shadow.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:42










            • @Skyler Yeah, but they are 10 meters thick, and they are not solid. Density is like 0.02 g/cm^3; barely more than a gas. The only way they can shade the sun is end-on; and in that case they are too thin.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:45






            • 2




              That is objectively incorrect based on observation of our own solar system. quora.com/Does-Saturns-ring-cast-shadows
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:48






            • 1




              @Skyler Those are long exposure pictures; the long exposure heightens the contrast between light and shade. The luminosity difference is nowhere near close enough to make a tundra zone.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:52












            up vote
            0
            down vote










            up vote
            0
            down vote









            There is no 'shadow of the rings'



            Saturn's majestic A ring is 10-30 meters thick; overall the rings of that planet range from 10 meters to 1 km thick.



            The asteroid belt is a 'ring' around the Sun. That, too, is not dense enough to block the sun. In this answer, I show that if the asteroid belt was ground down into particles 100g in mass, each particle would have 1530 km$^2$ of space to itself; each particle would be about 14 km from the next particle.



            Rings just aren't thick enough to create an appreciable shadow.






            share|improve this answer












            There is no 'shadow of the rings'



            Saturn's majestic A ring is 10-30 meters thick; overall the rings of that planet range from 10 meters to 1 km thick.



            The asteroid belt is a 'ring' around the Sun. That, too, is not dense enough to block the sun. In this answer, I show that if the asteroid belt was ground down into particles 100g in mass, each particle would have 1530 km$^2$ of space to itself; each particle would be about 14 km from the next particle.



            Rings just aren't thick enough to create an appreciable shadow.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Sep 21 at 20:24









            kingledion

            66.9k22223381




            66.9k22223381











            • Yes, but these rings wouldn't be casting a straight - on shadow. Saturn's rings are about 282,000km across, if they were casting a shadow on only half the planet, the diagonal of the rings would be much, much thicker.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:30










            • In fact, with some quick trig, considering the width of the rings (282,000) and the half-width of an earth-like planet being only 6371km, the angle of the rings would be 88.6, if they perfectly tilted to cover half the planet, making the percieved width of the rings almost the entire width of the rings... certainly enough to cast an appreciably thick shadow.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:42










            • @Skyler Yeah, but they are 10 meters thick, and they are not solid. Density is like 0.02 g/cm^3; barely more than a gas. The only way they can shade the sun is end-on; and in that case they are too thin.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:45






            • 2




              That is objectively incorrect based on observation of our own solar system. quora.com/Does-Saturns-ring-cast-shadows
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:48






            • 1




              @Skyler Those are long exposure pictures; the long exposure heightens the contrast between light and shade. The luminosity difference is nowhere near close enough to make a tundra zone.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:52
















            • Yes, but these rings wouldn't be casting a straight - on shadow. Saturn's rings are about 282,000km across, if they were casting a shadow on only half the planet, the diagonal of the rings would be much, much thicker.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:30










            • In fact, with some quick trig, considering the width of the rings (282,000) and the half-width of an earth-like planet being only 6371km, the angle of the rings would be 88.6, if they perfectly tilted to cover half the planet, making the percieved width of the rings almost the entire width of the rings... certainly enough to cast an appreciably thick shadow.
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:42










            • @Skyler Yeah, but they are 10 meters thick, and they are not solid. Density is like 0.02 g/cm^3; barely more than a gas. The only way they can shade the sun is end-on; and in that case they are too thin.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:45






            • 2




              That is objectively incorrect based on observation of our own solar system. quora.com/Does-Saturns-ring-cast-shadows
              – Skyler
              Sep 21 at 20:48






            • 1




              @Skyler Those are long exposure pictures; the long exposure heightens the contrast between light and shade. The luminosity difference is nowhere near close enough to make a tundra zone.
              – kingledion
              Sep 21 at 20:52















            Yes, but these rings wouldn't be casting a straight - on shadow. Saturn's rings are about 282,000km across, if they were casting a shadow on only half the planet, the diagonal of the rings would be much, much thicker.
            – Skyler
            Sep 21 at 20:30




            Yes, but these rings wouldn't be casting a straight - on shadow. Saturn's rings are about 282,000km across, if they were casting a shadow on only half the planet, the diagonal of the rings would be much, much thicker.
            – Skyler
            Sep 21 at 20:30












            In fact, with some quick trig, considering the width of the rings (282,000) and the half-width of an earth-like planet being only 6371km, the angle of the rings would be 88.6, if they perfectly tilted to cover half the planet, making the percieved width of the rings almost the entire width of the rings... certainly enough to cast an appreciably thick shadow.
            – Skyler
            Sep 21 at 20:42




            In fact, with some quick trig, considering the width of the rings (282,000) and the half-width of an earth-like planet being only 6371km, the angle of the rings would be 88.6, if they perfectly tilted to cover half the planet, making the percieved width of the rings almost the entire width of the rings... certainly enough to cast an appreciably thick shadow.
            – Skyler
            Sep 21 at 20:42












            @Skyler Yeah, but they are 10 meters thick, and they are not solid. Density is like 0.02 g/cm^3; barely more than a gas. The only way they can shade the sun is end-on; and in that case they are too thin.
            – kingledion
            Sep 21 at 20:45




            @Skyler Yeah, but they are 10 meters thick, and they are not solid. Density is like 0.02 g/cm^3; barely more than a gas. The only way they can shade the sun is end-on; and in that case they are too thin.
            – kingledion
            Sep 21 at 20:45




            2




            2




            That is objectively incorrect based on observation of our own solar system. quora.com/Does-Saturns-ring-cast-shadows
            – Skyler
            Sep 21 at 20:48




            That is objectively incorrect based on observation of our own solar system. quora.com/Does-Saturns-ring-cast-shadows
            – Skyler
            Sep 21 at 20:48




            1




            1




            @Skyler Those are long exposure pictures; the long exposure heightens the contrast between light and shade. The luminosity difference is nowhere near close enough to make a tundra zone.
            – kingledion
            Sep 21 at 20:52




            @Skyler Those are long exposure pictures; the long exposure heightens the contrast between light and shade. The luminosity difference is nowhere near close enough to make a tundra zone.
            – kingledion
            Sep 21 at 20:52

















             

            draft saved


            draft discarded















































             


            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f125711%2fis-this-planetary-moons-calendar-possible%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest













































































            Popular posts from this blog

            How to check contact read email or not when send email to Individual?

            Displaying single band from multi-band raster using QGIS

            How many registers does an x86_64 CPU actually have?