How many questions in the exam?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
A group of students have taken an exam. We have the following information:
- Every student answered at most 15 questions.
- Every question is answered by at least 1 and at most 3 students.
Every three students answered at least 1 common question.
At most how many questions could be there in this exam?
logical-deduction
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
A group of students have taken an exam. We have the following information:
- Every student answered at most 15 questions.
- Every question is answered by at least 1 and at most 3 students.
Every three students answered at least 1 common question.
At most how many questions could be there in this exam?
logical-deduction
3
Do we need to know how many students there are?
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 20:51
2
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàno
â Oray
Aug 7 at 20:52
Can we assume that the number of students is at least 3? Otherwise, "every three students" doesn't make sense. (Not knowing the exact number.)
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 21:47
What if it is just 15 because no one yet can predict the future then there is no need for any other knowledge
â Duck
Aug 7 at 21:49
@Randal'Thor people were voting for the other answer, so I thought it was the right and better one, that's why I deleted it :D I undeleted it...
â Oray
Aug 8 at 13:22
add a comment |Â
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
up vote
13
down vote
favorite
A group of students have taken an exam. We have the following information:
- Every student answered at most 15 questions.
- Every question is answered by at least 1 and at most 3 students.
Every three students answered at least 1 common question.
At most how many questions could be there in this exam?
logical-deduction
A group of students have taken an exam. We have the following information:
- Every student answered at most 15 questions.
- Every question is answered by at least 1 and at most 3 students.
Every three students answered at least 1 common question.
At most how many questions could be there in this exam?
logical-deduction
asked Aug 7 at 20:41
Oray
13.6k433135
13.6k433135
3
Do we need to know how many students there are?
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 20:51
2
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàno
â Oray
Aug 7 at 20:52
Can we assume that the number of students is at least 3? Otherwise, "every three students" doesn't make sense. (Not knowing the exact number.)
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 21:47
What if it is just 15 because no one yet can predict the future then there is no need for any other knowledge
â Duck
Aug 7 at 21:49
@Randal'Thor people were voting for the other answer, so I thought it was the right and better one, that's why I deleted it :D I undeleted it...
â Oray
Aug 8 at 13:22
add a comment |Â
3
Do we need to know how many students there are?
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 20:51
2
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàno
â Oray
Aug 7 at 20:52
Can we assume that the number of students is at least 3? Otherwise, "every three students" doesn't make sense. (Not knowing the exact number.)
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 21:47
What if it is just 15 because no one yet can predict the future then there is no need for any other knowledge
â Duck
Aug 7 at 21:49
@Randal'Thor people were voting for the other answer, so I thought it was the right and better one, that's why I deleted it :D I undeleted it...
â Oray
Aug 8 at 13:22
3
3
Do we need to know how many students there are?
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 20:51
Do we need to know how many students there are?
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 20:51
2
2
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàno
â Oray
Aug 7 at 20:52
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàno
â Oray
Aug 7 at 20:52
Can we assume that the number of students is at least 3? Otherwise, "every three students" doesn't make sense. (Not knowing the exact number.)
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 21:47
Can we assume that the number of students is at least 3? Otherwise, "every three students" doesn't make sense. (Not knowing the exact number.)
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 21:47
What if it is just 15 because no one yet can predict the future then there is no need for any other knowledge
â Duck
Aug 7 at 21:49
What if it is just 15 because no one yet can predict the future then there is no need for any other knowledge
â Duck
Aug 7 at 21:49
@Randal'Thor people were voting for the other answer, so I thought it was the right and better one, that's why I deleted it :D I undeleted it...
â Oray
Aug 8 at 13:22
@Randal'Thor people were voting for the other answer, so I thought it was the right and better one, that's why I deleted it :D I undeleted it...
â Oray
Aug 8 at 13:22
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
We can start by combining rules 2 and 3 to say that each group of 3 students has exactly one question that is unique to that group.
If there are n students, there are $_nC_3$ groups of 3 students, so the same number of questions that are part of shared groups. Additionally, each student is part of $_n-1C_2$ different groups of 3 students (the same as all possible groups of 2 students not including that student). Each student has a limit of 15 questions, and of those, $_n-1C_2$ will be shared with other students, while the rest of their 15 will be unique to them.
To get the total number of questions for a given number of students, add the number of questions shared between students and the number of students times the number of unique questions per student. This gives us the equation for the total number of questions for n students:
$$_nC_3 + n times(15 - _n-1C_2)$$
Plugging this into excel gives us the maximum value of
55 questions, which happens with 5 students.
Would be interesting if there was a proof for the highest possible $n$ as well...JK, have a +1. :P
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 22:16
I added another answer that doesn't do much else than elaborate on yours; I was hoping the solution is a bit easier to follow in a table format. I didn't want to add such a major edit to your answer without asking first, but if you think it might be a good idea to combine the answers, I'll be happy to delete mine.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 2:24
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàthe table in the answer below will also give that.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 3:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
@DqwertyC's answer is correct and thorough. Maybe it's because I just woke up, but it took me some effort to follow through all the maths notation in the explanation, so here's the same answer in tabular form:
We want to maximise the number of questions, so every student will have answered 15 questions. Also, we will never want to have any two students answering the same question, unless it is required by the third constraint in the question.
How many | How many | Memberships | Non-shared Q | Max total
students | groups of 3 | per student | per student | questions
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
1 student | 0 | 0 | 15 | 15
2 students | 0 | 0 | 15 | 30
3 students | 1 | 1 | 14 | 43
4 students | 4 | 3 | 12 | 52
5 students | 10 | 6 | 9 | 55
6 students | 20 | 10 | 5 | 50
7 students | 35 | 15 | 0 | 35
(8 students | 56 | 21 (> 15) | -6 (< 0) | N/A )
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
N | G = C(N, 3) | M = C(N-1, 2) | P = 15 - M | N * P + G
On the last line, C(n,k)
is the "from n, choose k" function. It counts the number of different ways it's possible to choose a combination of k items from a total of n items. It can be calculated as
$C(n,k) = fracn!k! (n-k)!$
where the exclamation point is the factorial function. @DqwertyC uses the notation $_nC_k$ for this.
add a comment |Â
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
We can start by combining rules 2 and 3 to say that each group of 3 students has exactly one question that is unique to that group.
If there are n students, there are $_nC_3$ groups of 3 students, so the same number of questions that are part of shared groups. Additionally, each student is part of $_n-1C_2$ different groups of 3 students (the same as all possible groups of 2 students not including that student). Each student has a limit of 15 questions, and of those, $_n-1C_2$ will be shared with other students, while the rest of their 15 will be unique to them.
To get the total number of questions for a given number of students, add the number of questions shared between students and the number of students times the number of unique questions per student. This gives us the equation for the total number of questions for n students:
$$_nC_3 + n times(15 - _n-1C_2)$$
Plugging this into excel gives us the maximum value of
55 questions, which happens with 5 students.
Would be interesting if there was a proof for the highest possible $n$ as well...JK, have a +1. :P
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 22:16
I added another answer that doesn't do much else than elaborate on yours; I was hoping the solution is a bit easier to follow in a table format. I didn't want to add such a major edit to your answer without asking first, but if you think it might be a good idea to combine the answers, I'll be happy to delete mine.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 2:24
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàthe table in the answer below will also give that.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 3:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
We can start by combining rules 2 and 3 to say that each group of 3 students has exactly one question that is unique to that group.
If there are n students, there are $_nC_3$ groups of 3 students, so the same number of questions that are part of shared groups. Additionally, each student is part of $_n-1C_2$ different groups of 3 students (the same as all possible groups of 2 students not including that student). Each student has a limit of 15 questions, and of those, $_n-1C_2$ will be shared with other students, while the rest of their 15 will be unique to them.
To get the total number of questions for a given number of students, add the number of questions shared between students and the number of students times the number of unique questions per student. This gives us the equation for the total number of questions for n students:
$$_nC_3 + n times(15 - _n-1C_2)$$
Plugging this into excel gives us the maximum value of
55 questions, which happens with 5 students.
Would be interesting if there was a proof for the highest possible $n$ as well...JK, have a +1. :P
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 22:16
I added another answer that doesn't do much else than elaborate on yours; I was hoping the solution is a bit easier to follow in a table format. I didn't want to add such a major edit to your answer without asking first, but if you think it might be a good idea to combine the answers, I'll be happy to delete mine.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 2:24
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàthe table in the answer below will also give that.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 3:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
up vote
9
down vote
accepted
We can start by combining rules 2 and 3 to say that each group of 3 students has exactly one question that is unique to that group.
If there are n students, there are $_nC_3$ groups of 3 students, so the same number of questions that are part of shared groups. Additionally, each student is part of $_n-1C_2$ different groups of 3 students (the same as all possible groups of 2 students not including that student). Each student has a limit of 15 questions, and of those, $_n-1C_2$ will be shared with other students, while the rest of their 15 will be unique to them.
To get the total number of questions for a given number of students, add the number of questions shared between students and the number of students times the number of unique questions per student. This gives us the equation for the total number of questions for n students:
$$_nC_3 + n times(15 - _n-1C_2)$$
Plugging this into excel gives us the maximum value of
55 questions, which happens with 5 students.
We can start by combining rules 2 and 3 to say that each group of 3 students has exactly one question that is unique to that group.
If there are n students, there are $_nC_3$ groups of 3 students, so the same number of questions that are part of shared groups. Additionally, each student is part of $_n-1C_2$ different groups of 3 students (the same as all possible groups of 2 students not including that student). Each student has a limit of 15 questions, and of those, $_n-1C_2$ will be shared with other students, while the rest of their 15 will be unique to them.
To get the total number of questions for a given number of students, add the number of questions shared between students and the number of students times the number of unique questions per student. This gives us the equation for the total number of questions for n students:
$$_nC_3 + n times(15 - _n-1C_2)$$
Plugging this into excel gives us the maximum value of
55 questions, which happens with 5 students.
answered Aug 7 at 22:03
DqwertyC
4,9581138
4,9581138
Would be interesting if there was a proof for the highest possible $n$ as well...JK, have a +1. :P
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 22:16
I added another answer that doesn't do much else than elaborate on yours; I was hoping the solution is a bit easier to follow in a table format. I didn't want to add such a major edit to your answer without asking first, but if you think it might be a good idea to combine the answers, I'll be happy to delete mine.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 2:24
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàthe table in the answer below will also give that.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 3:15
add a comment |Â
Would be interesting if there was a proof for the highest possible $n$ as well...JK, have a +1. :P
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 22:16
I added another answer that doesn't do much else than elaborate on yours; I was hoping the solution is a bit easier to follow in a table format. I didn't want to add such a major edit to your answer without asking first, but if you think it might be a good idea to combine the answers, I'll be happy to delete mine.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 2:24
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàthe table in the answer below will also give that.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 3:15
Would be interesting if there was a proof for the highest possible $n$ as well...JK, have a +1. :P
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 22:16
Would be interesting if there was a proof for the highest possible $n$ as well...JK, have a +1. :P
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 22:16
I added another answer that doesn't do much else than elaborate on yours; I was hoping the solution is a bit easier to follow in a table format. I didn't want to add such a major edit to your answer without asking first, but if you think it might be a good idea to combine the answers, I'll be happy to delete mine.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 2:24
I added another answer that doesn't do much else than elaborate on yours; I was hoping the solution is a bit easier to follow in a table format. I didn't want to add such a major edit to your answer without asking first, but if you think it might be a good idea to combine the answers, I'll be happy to delete mine.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 2:24
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàthe table in the answer below will also give that.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 3:15
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàthe table in the answer below will also give that.
â Bass
Aug 8 at 3:15
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
@DqwertyC's answer is correct and thorough. Maybe it's because I just woke up, but it took me some effort to follow through all the maths notation in the explanation, so here's the same answer in tabular form:
We want to maximise the number of questions, so every student will have answered 15 questions. Also, we will never want to have any two students answering the same question, unless it is required by the third constraint in the question.
How many | How many | Memberships | Non-shared Q | Max total
students | groups of 3 | per student | per student | questions
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
1 student | 0 | 0 | 15 | 15
2 students | 0 | 0 | 15 | 30
3 students | 1 | 1 | 14 | 43
4 students | 4 | 3 | 12 | 52
5 students | 10 | 6 | 9 | 55
6 students | 20 | 10 | 5 | 50
7 students | 35 | 15 | 0 | 35
(8 students | 56 | 21 (> 15) | -6 (< 0) | N/A )
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
N | G = C(N, 3) | M = C(N-1, 2) | P = 15 - M | N * P + G
On the last line, C(n,k)
is the "from n, choose k" function. It counts the number of different ways it's possible to choose a combination of k items from a total of n items. It can be calculated as
$C(n,k) = fracn!k! (n-k)!$
where the exclamation point is the factorial function. @DqwertyC uses the notation $_nC_k$ for this.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
@DqwertyC's answer is correct and thorough. Maybe it's because I just woke up, but it took me some effort to follow through all the maths notation in the explanation, so here's the same answer in tabular form:
We want to maximise the number of questions, so every student will have answered 15 questions. Also, we will never want to have any two students answering the same question, unless it is required by the third constraint in the question.
How many | How many | Memberships | Non-shared Q | Max total
students | groups of 3 | per student | per student | questions
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
1 student | 0 | 0 | 15 | 15
2 students | 0 | 0 | 15 | 30
3 students | 1 | 1 | 14 | 43
4 students | 4 | 3 | 12 | 52
5 students | 10 | 6 | 9 | 55
6 students | 20 | 10 | 5 | 50
7 students | 35 | 15 | 0 | 35
(8 students | 56 | 21 (> 15) | -6 (< 0) | N/A )
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
N | G = C(N, 3) | M = C(N-1, 2) | P = 15 - M | N * P + G
On the last line, C(n,k)
is the "from n, choose k" function. It counts the number of different ways it's possible to choose a combination of k items from a total of n items. It can be calculated as
$C(n,k) = fracn!k! (n-k)!$
where the exclamation point is the factorial function. @DqwertyC uses the notation $_nC_k$ for this.
add a comment |Â
up vote
4
down vote
up vote
4
down vote
@DqwertyC's answer is correct and thorough. Maybe it's because I just woke up, but it took me some effort to follow through all the maths notation in the explanation, so here's the same answer in tabular form:
We want to maximise the number of questions, so every student will have answered 15 questions. Also, we will never want to have any two students answering the same question, unless it is required by the third constraint in the question.
How many | How many | Memberships | Non-shared Q | Max total
students | groups of 3 | per student | per student | questions
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
1 student | 0 | 0 | 15 | 15
2 students | 0 | 0 | 15 | 30
3 students | 1 | 1 | 14 | 43
4 students | 4 | 3 | 12 | 52
5 students | 10 | 6 | 9 | 55
6 students | 20 | 10 | 5 | 50
7 students | 35 | 15 | 0 | 35
(8 students | 56 | 21 (> 15) | -6 (< 0) | N/A )
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
N | G = C(N, 3) | M = C(N-1, 2) | P = 15 - M | N * P + G
On the last line, C(n,k)
is the "from n, choose k" function. It counts the number of different ways it's possible to choose a combination of k items from a total of n items. It can be calculated as
$C(n,k) = fracn!k! (n-k)!$
where the exclamation point is the factorial function. @DqwertyC uses the notation $_nC_k$ for this.
@DqwertyC's answer is correct and thorough. Maybe it's because I just woke up, but it took me some effort to follow through all the maths notation in the explanation, so here's the same answer in tabular form:
We want to maximise the number of questions, so every student will have answered 15 questions. Also, we will never want to have any two students answering the same question, unless it is required by the third constraint in the question.
How many | How many | Memberships | Non-shared Q | Max total
students | groups of 3 | per student | per student | questions
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
1 student | 0 | 0 | 15 | 15
2 students | 0 | 0 | 15 | 30
3 students | 1 | 1 | 14 | 43
4 students | 4 | 3 | 12 | 52
5 students | 10 | 6 | 9 | 55
6 students | 20 | 10 | 5 | 50
7 students | 35 | 15 | 0 | 35
(8 students | 56 | 21 (> 15) | -6 (< 0) | N/A )
------------+-------------+---------------+--------------+----------
N | G = C(N, 3) | M = C(N-1, 2) | P = 15 - M | N * P + G
On the last line, C(n,k)
is the "from n, choose k" function. It counts the number of different ways it's possible to choose a combination of k items from a total of n items. It can be calculated as
$C(n,k) = fracn!k! (n-k)!$
where the exclamation point is the factorial function. @DqwertyC uses the notation $_nC_k$ for this.
edited Aug 14 at 18:14
answered Aug 8 at 2:14
Bass
21.3k353140
21.3k353140
add a comment |Â
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3
Do we need to know how many students there are?
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 20:51
2
@ÃÂÃÂùúÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿàno
â Oray
Aug 7 at 20:52
Can we assume that the number of students is at least 3? Otherwise, "every three students" doesn't make sense. (Not knowing the exact number.)
â ÃÂÃÂùú ÃÂÃÂýÃÂÃÂñýÃÂÃÂÃÂÿàûÿÃÂ
Aug 7 at 21:47
What if it is just 15 because no one yet can predict the future then there is no need for any other knowledge
â Duck
Aug 7 at 21:49
@Randal'Thor people were voting for the other answer, so I thought it was the right and better one, that's why I deleted it :D I undeleted it...
â Oray
Aug 8 at 13:22