How many litres of gaseous helium would it take to lift 80 kg on Earth?

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I have dragons in mind for my world, but I'm trying to find logic in how would a medium-sized anything fly off and still be a danger to humans.



So far, I have a lizard-like cheetah with wings, hollow bones and very strong legs but I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60 kg. So anyway I devised a plan for that, so if anyone has knowledge of physics and such that could answer the question I would be very grateful, thanks.










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    – Gryphon
    Jan 25 at 17:06






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    We know that there were flying dinosaurs weighting 145kg or more so there's no reason your dinosaur at 60 or 80kgs could not fly without using buoyancy.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B
    Jan 25 at 17:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @TimB pterosaurs are not dinosaurs, but that is a good low end mass estimate for Quetzalcoatlus. the largest flying dinosaur aka bird was around 70kg.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    Jan 25 at 17:33











  • $begingroup$
    There is a rather useful calculator here - omnicalculator.com/everyday-life/helium-balloons
    $endgroup$
    – chasly from UK
    Jan 25 at 20:45










  • $begingroup$
    This seems like a pure real-world physics question to me. Since we already have a site for those, I feel like this question should be migrated there.
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    Jan 25 at 21:11
















4












$begingroup$


I have dragons in mind for my world, but I'm trying to find logic in how would a medium-sized anything fly off and still be a danger to humans.



So far, I have a lizard-like cheetah with wings, hollow bones and very strong legs but I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60 kg. So anyway I devised a plan for that, so if anyone has knowledge of physics and such that could answer the question I would be very grateful, thanks.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding! If you have a moment, please take the tour and visit the help center to learn more about the site. You may also find Worldbuilding Meta and The Sandbox useful. Here is a meta post on the culture and style of Worldbuilding.SE, just to help you understand our scope and methods, and how we do things here. Have fun!
    $endgroup$
    – Gryphon
    Jan 25 at 17:06






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    We know that there were flying dinosaurs weighting 145kg or more so there's no reason your dinosaur at 60 or 80kgs could not fly without using buoyancy.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B
    Jan 25 at 17:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @TimB pterosaurs are not dinosaurs, but that is a good low end mass estimate for Quetzalcoatlus. the largest flying dinosaur aka bird was around 70kg.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    Jan 25 at 17:33











  • $begingroup$
    There is a rather useful calculator here - omnicalculator.com/everyday-life/helium-balloons
    $endgroup$
    – chasly from UK
    Jan 25 at 20:45










  • $begingroup$
    This seems like a pure real-world physics question to me. Since we already have a site for those, I feel like this question should be migrated there.
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    Jan 25 at 21:11














4












4








4





$begingroup$


I have dragons in mind for my world, but I'm trying to find logic in how would a medium-sized anything fly off and still be a danger to humans.



So far, I have a lizard-like cheetah with wings, hollow bones and very strong legs but I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60 kg. So anyway I devised a plan for that, so if anyone has knowledge of physics and such that could answer the question I would be very grateful, thanks.










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




I have dragons in mind for my world, but I'm trying to find logic in how would a medium-sized anything fly off and still be a danger to humans.



So far, I have a lizard-like cheetah with wings, hollow bones and very strong legs but I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60 kg. So anyway I devised a plan for that, so if anyone has knowledge of physics and such that could answer the question I would be very grateful, thanks.







physics chemistry flight






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jan 25 at 22:32









Loong

256312




256312










asked Jan 25 at 16:52









Alright itsCROAlright itsCRO

242




242











  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding! If you have a moment, please take the tour and visit the help center to learn more about the site. You may also find Worldbuilding Meta and The Sandbox useful. Here is a meta post on the culture and style of Worldbuilding.SE, just to help you understand our scope and methods, and how we do things here. Have fun!
    $endgroup$
    – Gryphon
    Jan 25 at 17:06






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    We know that there were flying dinosaurs weighting 145kg or more so there's no reason your dinosaur at 60 or 80kgs could not fly without using buoyancy.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B
    Jan 25 at 17:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @TimB pterosaurs are not dinosaurs, but that is a good low end mass estimate for Quetzalcoatlus. the largest flying dinosaur aka bird was around 70kg.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    Jan 25 at 17:33











  • $begingroup$
    There is a rather useful calculator here - omnicalculator.com/everyday-life/helium-balloons
    $endgroup$
    – chasly from UK
    Jan 25 at 20:45










  • $begingroup$
    This seems like a pure real-world physics question to me. Since we already have a site for those, I feel like this question should be migrated there.
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    Jan 25 at 21:11

















  • $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding! If you have a moment, please take the tour and visit the help center to learn more about the site. You may also find Worldbuilding Meta and The Sandbox useful. Here is a meta post on the culture and style of Worldbuilding.SE, just to help you understand our scope and methods, and how we do things here. Have fun!
    $endgroup$
    – Gryphon
    Jan 25 at 17:06






  • 5




    $begingroup$
    We know that there were flying dinosaurs weighting 145kg or more so there's no reason your dinosaur at 60 or 80kgs could not fly without using buoyancy.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B
    Jan 25 at 17:13






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @TimB pterosaurs are not dinosaurs, but that is a good low end mass estimate for Quetzalcoatlus. the largest flying dinosaur aka bird was around 70kg.
    $endgroup$
    – John
    Jan 25 at 17:33











  • $begingroup$
    There is a rather useful calculator here - omnicalculator.com/everyday-life/helium-balloons
    $endgroup$
    – chasly from UK
    Jan 25 at 20:45










  • $begingroup$
    This seems like a pure real-world physics question to me. Since we already have a site for those, I feel like this question should be migrated there.
    $endgroup$
    – Ilmari Karonen
    Jan 25 at 21:11
















$begingroup$
Welcome to Worldbuilding! If you have a moment, please take the tour and visit the help center to learn more about the site. You may also find Worldbuilding Meta and The Sandbox useful. Here is a meta post on the culture and style of Worldbuilding.SE, just to help you understand our scope and methods, and how we do things here. Have fun!
$endgroup$
– Gryphon
Jan 25 at 17:06




$begingroup$
Welcome to Worldbuilding! If you have a moment, please take the tour and visit the help center to learn more about the site. You may also find Worldbuilding Meta and The Sandbox useful. Here is a meta post on the culture and style of Worldbuilding.SE, just to help you understand our scope and methods, and how we do things here. Have fun!
$endgroup$
– Gryphon
Jan 25 at 17:06




5




5




$begingroup$
We know that there were flying dinosaurs weighting 145kg or more so there's no reason your dinosaur at 60 or 80kgs could not fly without using buoyancy.
$endgroup$
– Tim B
Jan 25 at 17:13




$begingroup$
We know that there were flying dinosaurs weighting 145kg or more so there's no reason your dinosaur at 60 or 80kgs could not fly without using buoyancy.
$endgroup$
– Tim B
Jan 25 at 17:13




1




1




$begingroup$
@TimB pterosaurs are not dinosaurs, but that is a good low end mass estimate for Quetzalcoatlus. the largest flying dinosaur aka bird was around 70kg.
$endgroup$
– John
Jan 25 at 17:33





$begingroup$
@TimB pterosaurs are not dinosaurs, but that is a good low end mass estimate for Quetzalcoatlus. the largest flying dinosaur aka bird was around 70kg.
$endgroup$
– John
Jan 25 at 17:33













$begingroup$
There is a rather useful calculator here - omnicalculator.com/everyday-life/helium-balloons
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
Jan 25 at 20:45




$begingroup$
There is a rather useful calculator here - omnicalculator.com/everyday-life/helium-balloons
$endgroup$
– chasly from UK
Jan 25 at 20:45












$begingroup$
This seems like a pure real-world physics question to me. Since we already have a site for those, I feel like this question should be migrated there.
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Jan 25 at 21:11





$begingroup$
This seems like a pure real-world physics question to me. Since we already have a site for those, I feel like this question should be migrated there.
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Jan 25 at 21:11











3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















12












$begingroup$

For a back-of-the-envelope calculation the rule of thumb is that you need one cubic meter (1000 liters) of hydrogen or helium to lift one kilogram; so for 80 kilograms you need about 80 cubic meters (80,000 liters) of lifting gas.



For a more detailed calculation:



  • The average density of air at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m³.


  • The density of helium at 1 atmosphere pressure and 0°C temperature (that's called "standard temperature and pressure", STP) is about 0.18 kg/m³.


  • The lifting force is the difference between the weight of a volume of helium and the same volume of air, or 1.02 kg/m³.


  • For 80 kg you need 80 / 1.02 = 78.4 m³ of helium.


For a quick comparison, that's quite comparable with the capacity of a large railroad tank wagon, and about 15% more than the internal volume of a standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal container:



A stack of 40-foot intermodal containers



A stack of standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal containers. Each container has an internal volume of about 68 cubic meters. Photograph by Martini171, available on Wikimedia under the CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported license.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    5












    $begingroup$


    I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60kgs




    Helium has a lifting force of one gram per liter. For a 60kg person or animal, you will therefore 60,000 liters. That is 15,850.323 gallons for americans.



    The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about 60,000 liters is that it's the usual volume capacity for yhese trucks:



    60,000 liters



    Also notice that flying this way may be very hard. Larry Walters comes to mind.






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Thatsalottahelium....
      $endgroup$
      – JBH
      Jan 25 at 17:22


















    -1












    $begingroup$

    it would theoretically take 115920 cubic feet of helium to lig=ft 80 kilograms.
    Because the difference in the up and downforce is 0.069 pounds. each cubic foot of helium could lift 0.069 pounds. In order to lift a single kilogram, you would need 1449 cubic feet of helium.
    Now we have to transfer the cubic feet to liters.
    1 cubic foot= 28 litres
    115920x28
    Theoretically, it would take 3245760 liters to lift 80 kilograms.






    share|improve this answer









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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      active

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      active

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      12












      $begingroup$

      For a back-of-the-envelope calculation the rule of thumb is that you need one cubic meter (1000 liters) of hydrogen or helium to lift one kilogram; so for 80 kilograms you need about 80 cubic meters (80,000 liters) of lifting gas.



      For a more detailed calculation:



      • The average density of air at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m³.


      • The density of helium at 1 atmosphere pressure and 0°C temperature (that's called "standard temperature and pressure", STP) is about 0.18 kg/m³.


      • The lifting force is the difference between the weight of a volume of helium and the same volume of air, or 1.02 kg/m³.


      • For 80 kg you need 80 / 1.02 = 78.4 m³ of helium.


      For a quick comparison, that's quite comparable with the capacity of a large railroad tank wagon, and about 15% more than the internal volume of a standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal container:



      A stack of 40-foot intermodal containers



      A stack of standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal containers. Each container has an internal volume of about 68 cubic meters. Photograph by Martini171, available on Wikimedia under the CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported license.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$

















        12












        $begingroup$

        For a back-of-the-envelope calculation the rule of thumb is that you need one cubic meter (1000 liters) of hydrogen or helium to lift one kilogram; so for 80 kilograms you need about 80 cubic meters (80,000 liters) of lifting gas.



        For a more detailed calculation:



        • The average density of air at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m³.


        • The density of helium at 1 atmosphere pressure and 0°C temperature (that's called "standard temperature and pressure", STP) is about 0.18 kg/m³.


        • The lifting force is the difference between the weight of a volume of helium and the same volume of air, or 1.02 kg/m³.


        • For 80 kg you need 80 / 1.02 = 78.4 m³ of helium.


        For a quick comparison, that's quite comparable with the capacity of a large railroad tank wagon, and about 15% more than the internal volume of a standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal container:



        A stack of 40-foot intermodal containers



        A stack of standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal containers. Each container has an internal volume of about 68 cubic meters. Photograph by Martini171, available on Wikimedia under the CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported license.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$















          12












          12








          12





          $begingroup$

          For a back-of-the-envelope calculation the rule of thumb is that you need one cubic meter (1000 liters) of hydrogen or helium to lift one kilogram; so for 80 kilograms you need about 80 cubic meters (80,000 liters) of lifting gas.



          For a more detailed calculation:



          • The average density of air at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m³.


          • The density of helium at 1 atmosphere pressure and 0°C temperature (that's called "standard temperature and pressure", STP) is about 0.18 kg/m³.


          • The lifting force is the difference between the weight of a volume of helium and the same volume of air, or 1.02 kg/m³.


          • For 80 kg you need 80 / 1.02 = 78.4 m³ of helium.


          For a quick comparison, that's quite comparable with the capacity of a large railroad tank wagon, and about 15% more than the internal volume of a standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal container:



          A stack of 40-foot intermodal containers



          A stack of standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal containers. Each container has an internal volume of about 68 cubic meters. Photograph by Martini171, available on Wikimedia under the CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported license.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          For a back-of-the-envelope calculation the rule of thumb is that you need one cubic meter (1000 liters) of hydrogen or helium to lift one kilogram; so for 80 kilograms you need about 80 cubic meters (80,000 liters) of lifting gas.



          For a more detailed calculation:



          • The average density of air at sea level is about 1.2 kg/m³.


          • The density of helium at 1 atmosphere pressure and 0°C temperature (that's called "standard temperature and pressure", STP) is about 0.18 kg/m³.


          • The lifting force is the difference between the weight of a volume of helium and the same volume of air, or 1.02 kg/m³.


          • For 80 kg you need 80 / 1.02 = 78.4 m³ of helium.


          For a quick comparison, that's quite comparable with the capacity of a large railroad tank wagon, and about 15% more than the internal volume of a standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal container:



          A stack of 40-foot intermodal containers



          A stack of standard 40-foot (12.2 meters) intermodal containers. Each container has an internal volume of about 68 cubic meters. Photograph by Martini171, available on Wikimedia under the CC BY-SA 3.0 Unported license.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Jan 25 at 22:06

























          answered Jan 25 at 17:18









          AlexPAlexP

          38.2k787149




          38.2k787149





















              5












              $begingroup$


              I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60kgs




              Helium has a lifting force of one gram per liter. For a 60kg person or animal, you will therefore 60,000 liters. That is 15,850.323 gallons for americans.



              The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about 60,000 liters is that it's the usual volume capacity for yhese trucks:



              60,000 liters



              Also notice that flying this way may be very hard. Larry Walters comes to mind.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thatsalottahelium....
                $endgroup$
                – JBH
                Jan 25 at 17:22















              5












              $begingroup$


              I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60kgs




              Helium has a lifting force of one gram per liter. For a 60kg person or animal, you will therefore 60,000 liters. That is 15,850.323 gallons for americans.



              The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about 60,000 liters is that it's the usual volume capacity for yhese trucks:



              60,000 liters



              Also notice that flying this way may be very hard. Larry Walters comes to mind.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$








              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thatsalottahelium....
                $endgroup$
                – JBH
                Jan 25 at 17:22













              5












              5








              5





              $begingroup$


              I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60kgs




              Helium has a lifting force of one gram per liter. For a 60kg person or animal, you will therefore 60,000 liters. That is 15,850.323 gallons for americans.



              The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about 60,000 liters is that it's the usual volume capacity for yhese trucks:



              60,000 liters



              Also notice that flying this way may be very hard. Larry Walters comes to mind.






              share|improve this answer











              $endgroup$




              I still doubt it would be able to fly if it had over 60kgs




              Helium has a lifting force of one gram per liter. For a 60kg person or animal, you will therefore 60,000 liters. That is 15,850.323 gallons for americans.



              The first thing that comes to my mind when I think about 60,000 liters is that it's the usual volume capacity for yhese trucks:



              60,000 liters



              Also notice that flying this way may be very hard. Larry Walters comes to mind.







              share|improve this answer














              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer








              edited Jan 25 at 17:14

























              answered Jan 25 at 17:06









              RenanRenan

              48.1k13111245




              48.1k13111245







              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thatsalottahelium....
                $endgroup$
                – JBH
                Jan 25 at 17:22












              • 1




                $begingroup$
                Thatsalottahelium....
                $endgroup$
                – JBH
                Jan 25 at 17:22







              1




              1




              $begingroup$
              Thatsalottahelium....
              $endgroup$
              – JBH
              Jan 25 at 17:22




              $begingroup$
              Thatsalottahelium....
              $endgroup$
              – JBH
              Jan 25 at 17:22











              -1












              $begingroup$

              it would theoretically take 115920 cubic feet of helium to lig=ft 80 kilograms.
              Because the difference in the up and downforce is 0.069 pounds. each cubic foot of helium could lift 0.069 pounds. In order to lift a single kilogram, you would need 1449 cubic feet of helium.
              Now we have to transfer the cubic feet to liters.
              1 cubic foot= 28 litres
              115920x28
              Theoretically, it would take 3245760 liters to lift 80 kilograms.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$

















                -1












                $begingroup$

                it would theoretically take 115920 cubic feet of helium to lig=ft 80 kilograms.
                Because the difference in the up and downforce is 0.069 pounds. each cubic foot of helium could lift 0.069 pounds. In order to lift a single kilogram, you would need 1449 cubic feet of helium.
                Now we have to transfer the cubic feet to liters.
                1 cubic foot= 28 litres
                115920x28
                Theoretically, it would take 3245760 liters to lift 80 kilograms.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$















                  -1












                  -1








                  -1





                  $begingroup$

                  it would theoretically take 115920 cubic feet of helium to lig=ft 80 kilograms.
                  Because the difference in the up and downforce is 0.069 pounds. each cubic foot of helium could lift 0.069 pounds. In order to lift a single kilogram, you would need 1449 cubic feet of helium.
                  Now we have to transfer the cubic feet to liters.
                  1 cubic foot= 28 litres
                  115920x28
                  Theoretically, it would take 3245760 liters to lift 80 kilograms.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  it would theoretically take 115920 cubic feet of helium to lig=ft 80 kilograms.
                  Because the difference in the up and downforce is 0.069 pounds. each cubic foot of helium could lift 0.069 pounds. In order to lift a single kilogram, you would need 1449 cubic feet of helium.
                  Now we have to transfer the cubic feet to liters.
                  1 cubic foot= 28 litres
                  115920x28
                  Theoretically, it would take 3245760 liters to lift 80 kilograms.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Jan 25 at 23:15









                  Rowyn AllowayRowyn Alloway

                  6321216




                  6321216



























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