Different derivations of the value of $prod_0leq j<k<n(eta^k-eta^j)$
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.
If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$
nt.number-theory gr.group-theory soft-question teaching elementary-proofs
add a comment |
Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.
If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$
nt.number-theory gr.group-theory soft-question teaching elementary-proofs
How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04
It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07
5
can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52
I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22
add a comment |
Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.
If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$
nt.number-theory gr.group-theory soft-question teaching elementary-proofs
Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.
If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$
nt.number-theory gr.group-theory soft-question teaching elementary-proofs
nt.number-theory gr.group-theory soft-question teaching elementary-proofs
edited Dec 29 '18 at 6:35
T. Amdeberhan
asked Dec 28 '18 at 5:55
T. AmdeberhanT. Amdeberhan
17.1k228126
17.1k228126
How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04
It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07
5
can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52
I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22
add a comment |
How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04
It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07
5
can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52
I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22
How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04
How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04
It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07
It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07
5
5
can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52
can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52
I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22
I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.
Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.
Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$
$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$
All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.
Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.
$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$
$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$
$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$
$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$
We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:
The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.
I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$
Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.
Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$
Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$
Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$
By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$
Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$
Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$
Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$
Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.
Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.
1
In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20
@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29
1
This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40
add a comment |
Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:
Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*
Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*
The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*
From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*
which gives the desired value for $P$.
Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "504"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f319620%2fdifferent-derivations-of-the-value-of-prod-0-leq-jkn-etak-etaj%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.
Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.
Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.
Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.
answered Dec 28 '18 at 7:23
Alexey UstinovAlexey Ustinov
6,78745879
6,78745879
Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.
Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$
$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$
All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.
Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.
$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$
$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$
$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$
$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$
We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:
The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.
I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.
Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$
$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$
All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.
Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.
$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$
$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$
$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$
$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$
We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:
The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.
I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.
Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$
$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$
All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.
Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.
$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$
$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$
$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$
$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$
We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:
The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.
We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.
Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$
$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$
All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.
Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.
$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$
$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$
$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$
$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$
We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:
The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.
edited yesterday
community wiki
2 revs
user44191
I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39
add a comment |
Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$
Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.
Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$
Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$
Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$
By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$
Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$
Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$
Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$
Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.
Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.
1
In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20
@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29
1
This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40
add a comment |
Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$
Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.
Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$
Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$
Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$
By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$
Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$
Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$
Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$
Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.
Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.
1
In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20
@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29
1
This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40
add a comment |
Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$
Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.
Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$
Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$
Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$
By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$
Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$
Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$
Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$
Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.
Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.
Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$
Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.
Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$
Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$
Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$
By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$
Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$
Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$
Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$
Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.
Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.
edited Jan 1 at 11:49
answered Dec 30 '18 at 15:04
Geoff RobinsonGeoff Robinson
29.1k279108
29.1k279108
1
In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20
@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29
1
This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40
add a comment |
1
In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20
@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29
1
This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40
1
1
In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20
In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20
@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29
@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29
1
1
This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40
This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40
add a comment |
Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:
Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*
Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*
The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*
From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*
which gives the desired value for $P$.
Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41
add a comment |
Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:
Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*
Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*
The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*
From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*
which gives the desired value for $P$.
Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41
add a comment |
Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:
Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*
Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*
The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*
From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*
which gives the desired value for $P$.
Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:
Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*
Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*
The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*
From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*
which gives the desired value for $P$.
answered Dec 30 '18 at 22:34
François BrunaultFrançois Brunault
12.8k23569
12.8k23569
Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41
add a comment |
Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41
Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41
Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to MathOverflow!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f319620%2fdifferent-derivations-of-the-value-of-prod-0-leq-jkn-etak-etaj%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04
It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07
5
can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52
I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22