Different derivations of the value of $prod_0leq j<k<n(eta^k-eta^j)$

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7














Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.




If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$











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  • How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
    – user44191
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:04










  • It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:07







  • 5




    can you change to a more specific title?
    – YCor
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:52










  • I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
    – Wojowu
    Dec 28 '18 at 15:22















7














Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.




If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$











share|cite|improve this question























  • How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
    – user44191
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:04










  • It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:07







  • 5




    can you change to a more specific title?
    – YCor
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:52










  • I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
    – Wojowu
    Dec 28 '18 at 15:22













7












7








7


1





Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.




If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$











share|cite|improve this question















Let $eta=e^frac2pi in$, an $n$-th root of unity. For pedagogical reasons and inspiration, I ask to see different proofs (be it elementary, sophisticated, theoretical, etc) for the following product evaluation.




If $T(n)=frac(3n-2)(n-1)2$ and $i=sqrt-1$ then
$$prod_j<k^0,n-1(eta^k-eta^j)=n^fracn2i^T(n).$$








nt.number-theory gr.group-theory soft-question teaching elementary-proofs






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edited Dec 29 '18 at 6:35







T. Amdeberhan

















asked Dec 28 '18 at 5:55









T. AmdeberhanT. Amdeberhan

17.1k228126




17.1k228126











  • How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
    – user44191
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:04










  • It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:07







  • 5




    can you change to a more specific title?
    – YCor
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:52










  • I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
    – Wojowu
    Dec 28 '18 at 15:22
















  • How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
    – user44191
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:04










  • It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Dec 28 '18 at 6:07







  • 5




    can you change to a more specific title?
    – YCor
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:52










  • I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
    – Wojowu
    Dec 28 '18 at 15:22















How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04




How precise would you like the conclusion? Would getting the norm and the parity of $T(n)$ be enough, or do you want $T(n)$ exactly?
– user44191
Dec 28 '18 at 6:04












It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07





It'd be nice to get it exactly, however even getting to what you described does add insight into the discussion. So, you're welcome to present it.
– T. Amdeberhan
Dec 28 '18 at 6:07





5




5




can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52




can you change to a more specific title?
– YCor
Dec 28 '18 at 7:52












I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22




I have changed the title to a more specific one, given that the question is now in HNQ.
– Wojowu
Dec 28 '18 at 15:22










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

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9














Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you, indeed.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39


















8














We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.



Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$



$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$



All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.



Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.



$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$



$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$



$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$



$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$



We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:



The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.






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  • I appreciate for the technique.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39


















4














Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$



Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.



Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$



Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$



Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$



By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$



Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$



Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$



Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$



Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.



Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.






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  • 1




    In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
    – Mark Wildon
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:20











  • @MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
    – Geoff Robinson
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:29






  • 1




    This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:40


















0














Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:



Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*

Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*

The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*

From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*

which gives the desired value for $P$.






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  • Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:41










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4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes








4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









9














Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you, indeed.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39















9














Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you, indeed.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39













9












9








9






Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.






share|cite|improve this answer












Your are asking about determinant of the Schur Matrix. So you can use original Schur's article or another classical expositions mentioned at Mathworld.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Dec 28 '18 at 7:23









Alexey UstinovAlexey Ustinov

6,78745879




6,78745879











  • Thank you, indeed.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39
















  • Thank you, indeed.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39















Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39




Thank you, indeed.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39











8














We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.



Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$



$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$



All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.



Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.



$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$



$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$



$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$



$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$



We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:



The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • I appreciate for the technique.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39















8














We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.



Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$



$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$



All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.



Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.



$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$



$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$



$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$



$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$



We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:



The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.






share|cite|improve this answer






















  • I appreciate for the technique.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39













8












8








8






We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.



Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$



$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$



All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.



Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.



$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$



$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$



$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$



$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$



We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:



The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.






share|cite|improve this answer














We first find the norm; we then determine the argument.



Call the product you wrote $A_n$. Then $A_n^2 = prod_j<k^0,n-1 (eta^k - eta^j)^2 = Disc(x^n - 1) = (-1)^fracn (n -1)2Res(x^n - 1, n x^n - 1)$



$= (-1)^fracn(n-1)2 n^n prod_0 leq i < n, 0 leq j < n-1 (eta^i - 0)$



All terms in the expression except $n^n$ have norm $1$, so we have that $|A_n| = n^fracn2$. We therefore only need to figure out the argument of $A_n$.



Let $eta' = e^frac2 pi i2n$ be the square root of $eta$. We can rewrite $A_n = prod_0leq j<k<n eta'^k + j (eta'^k - j - eta'^j - k)$. Note that the second term is a difference of (unequal) conjugates where the minuend has positive imaginary part (and the subtrahend therefore negative imaginary part), and therefore will always have argument $fracpi2$. So let us concentrate on the argument of the first term, $prod_0 leq j < k < n eta'^k +j$. We can do this by finding $sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k$.



$sum_0 leq j < k < n j + k = left(sum_0 leq j < k < n jright) + left(sum_0 leq j < k < n kright)$



$= left(sum_0 leq j <n (n - j - 1)jright) + left(sum_0leq k<n k*kright)$



$= sum_0 leq j < n (n - j - 1)j + j*j = sum_0 leq j < n (n - 1)j$



$= (n - 1) fracn (n - 1)2$



We therefore end up with an argument of $fracn(n - 1)2 fracpi2 + fracn (n - 1)^22 frac2 pi2n = frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. We finally have that:



The norm of $A_n$ is $n^fracn2$, and the argument is $frac(3n^2 - 5n + 2)pi4$. Correspondingly, we have that $A_n = n^fracn2 i^T(n)$, as desired.







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  • I appreciate for the technique.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39
















  • I appreciate for the technique.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:39















I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39




I appreciate for the technique.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:39











4














Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$



Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.



Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$



Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$



Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$



By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$



Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$



Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$



Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$



Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.



Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.






share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 1




    In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
    – Mark Wildon
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:20











  • @MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
    – Geoff Robinson
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:29






  • 1




    This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:40















4














Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$



Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.



Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$



Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$



Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$



By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$



Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$



Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$



Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$



Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.



Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.






share|cite|improve this answer


















  • 1




    In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
    – Mark Wildon
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:20











  • @MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
    – Geoff Robinson
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:29






  • 1




    This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:40













4












4








4






Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$



Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.



Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$



Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$



Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$



By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$



Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$



Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$



Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$



Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.



Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.






share|cite|improve this answer














Your determinant is essentially the Van der Monde determinant $rm det(A),$ where $A$ is the $n times n$ matrix $[eta^(j-1)(k-1)].$



Note that $A$ is the character table of the cyclic group of order $n$ so that $Abar A^T= nI_n$, using the orthogonality relations for group characters, and $|rm det A| = n^fracn2.$ One can continue in this vein, but I will sketch a more general calculation of the determinant of the character table of a general finite group, which simplifies considerably in the case of cyclic groups.



Let $G$ be a finite group with $t$ conjugacy classes, say with representatives $g_1,g_2, ldots g_t.$ Let us label these classes so that $1_G = g_1, g_2,ldots ,g_s$ are exactly those class representatives which are conjugate to their inverses in $G$ and so that $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$



Let $chi_1,chi_2, ldots chi_t$ be the complex irreducible characters of $G.$



Let $B$ be the character table of $G$, which is the $t times t$ matrix $[chi_j(g_k)].$



By the orthogonality relations for group characters, we see that $bar B^TB$ is the diagonal matrix whose $j$-th diagonal entry is $|C_G(g_j)|.$



Let $pi in rm S_t$ be the permutation fixing $1,2,ldots,s$ and interchanges $s+2j-1$ and $s+2j$ for $1 leq j leq fract-s2.$ Let $P$ be the associated permutation matrix.$



Note that $BP = bar B$ since $BP$ has the same first $s$ columns as $B$ and has the columns corresponding to $g_s+2j-1$ and $g_s+2j = g_s+2j-1^-1$ interchanged for $1 leq fract-s2$ (note that the first $s$ columns of $B$ are real as $g_j$ is conjugate to $g_j^-1$ for $1 leq j leq s.$



Hence $rm detB^2 = (-1)^fract-s2 prod_j=1^t |C_G(g_j)|$ and
$rm detB = (i)^fract-s2 sqrt$ where $i = sqrt-1.$



Edit following Mark Wildon's comment: In fact, although it looks as though there is a free choice of $sqrt-1$ in the above, in the case that $G$ is cyclic of order $n$, if we define $eta$ as in the question as $eta = expfrac2 pi in,$ then we have to use the other square root of $-1$ in the above expression for $rm det(A),$ so
$rm detA = (-i)^fracn-s2 n^fracn2$ where $s =1 $ if $n$ is odd and $s = 2$ if $n$ is even.



Even later edit: Here are some remarks about the general character table determinant which can be seen directly without making a choice for $sqrt-1.$ Note that since $bar B = BP$ and $overlinerm detB = (-1)^fract-s2rm detB$, we have that $rm det(B) in mathbbR$ if and only if $t equiv s$ (mod $4$). When $t not equiv s$ (mod $4$), we see that $rm detB$ is pure imaginary. At present, I don't see a quick way (in the general case) to determine which choice of $sqrt-1$ to use in the earlier formula once a choice of $i$ is fixed for the character table entries.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 1 at 11:49

























answered Dec 30 '18 at 15:04









Geoff RobinsonGeoff Robinson

29.1k279108




29.1k279108







  • 1




    In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
    – Mark Wildon
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:20











  • @MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
    – Geoff Robinson
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:29






  • 1




    This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:40












  • 1




    In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
    – Mark Wildon
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:20











  • @MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
    – Geoff Robinson
    Dec 31 '18 at 13:29






  • 1




    This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:40







1




1




In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20





In the final step, isn't there a choice of square roots of $-1$? If so, $det B$ is determined only up to a sign $(-1)^(t-s)/2$. Checking $n$ in $0,1,ldots, 8$ using $t-s = n-1-[n$ is even$]$ shows that $(-i)^(t-s)/2 = i^T(n) = i^(3n-2)(n-1)/2$ for all $n$, so it seems the other sign is correct.
– Mark Wildon
Dec 31 '18 at 13:20













@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29




@MarkWildon :Yes, there is a choice of sign to be made which is why I said I was "sketching a proof" and was a bit lazy- the question seems to allow the choice of a sign of $sqrt-1,$ but the definition of $eta$ as $exp(2 pi i/n)$ in fact removes the freedom of choice, and your checking shows that you need to take the negative of the $i$ appearing in the exponential when taking the square root of a (sometimes) negative quantity.
– Geoff Robinson
Dec 31 '18 at 13:29




1




1




This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40




This is a very nice alternative. Thank you.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:40











0














Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:



Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*

Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*

The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*

From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*

which gives the desired value for $P$.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:41















0














Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:



Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*

Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*

The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*

From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*

which gives the desired value for $P$.






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:41













0












0








0






Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:



Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*

Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*

The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*

From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*

which gives the desired value for $P$.






share|cite|improve this answer












Here is a proof using the logarithmic function $mathrmLi_1(z)=-log(1-z)$:



Let $P= displaystyleprod_substackj,k=0 \ j<k^n-1 (eta^k-eta^j)$. Take the logarithm:
beginalign*
log P & = sum_j<k log eta^k - sum_j<k mathrmLi_1(eta^j-k) \
& = sum_k=0^n-1 k cdot frac2pi i kn - sum_a=1^n-1 (n-a) mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) \
& = frac2pi in sum_k=0^n-1 k^2 - sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a).
endalign*

Call $S$ the second sum. We have
beginalign*
S & = sum_a=1^n-1 a mathrmLi_1(eta^a) = frac12 sum_a=1^n-1 bigl(a mathrmLi_1(eta^a)+(n-a)mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)\
& = fracn2 sum_a=1^n-1 mathrmLi_1(eta^a) + sum_a=1^n-1 a cdot bigl(mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a)bigr)
endalign*

The first sum is easy to compute and is equal to $-log n$. Regarding the second sum, the classical Fourier expansion for the Bernoulli polynomial $B_1(x)=x-frac12$ on $(0,1)$ gives
beginequation*
mathrmLi_1(eta^a)-mathrmLi_1(eta^-a) = 2pi i bigl(frac12 - fracanbigr).
endequation*

From there, it is not difficult to finish the computation
beginalign*
log P = fracn2 log n - fracpi i4 n(n-1) + frac3pi in sum_k=1^n-1 k^2 = fracn2 log n + fracpi i4 (n-1)(3n-2)
endalign*

which gives the desired value for $P$.







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share|cite|improve this answer










answered Dec 30 '18 at 22:34









François BrunaultFrançois Brunault

12.8k23569




12.8k23569











  • Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:41
















  • Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
    – T. Amdeberhan
    Jan 1 at 16:41















Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41




Thank you for adding this variation in the proof.
– T. Amdeberhan
Jan 1 at 16:41

















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