Why underbrace has _… instead of an optional parameter?

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up vote
25
down vote

favorite
2












Why is underbrace (and similar commands) in the form



underbracemy formula_some text under my formula


?



Shouldn't a standard macro be in the form



underbrace[some text under my formula]my formula


since the text to put under is optional?



Why is it treated like a math operator?



documentclassarticle
usepackageamsmath
begindocument
[
underbracea+b=c
]
[
underbracea+b=c_textsomething
]
[
lim_xto a x= a
]
enddocument


enter image description here










share|improve this question





















  • I don't know, but probably to be consistent with plain TeX.
    – TeXnician
    Dec 2 at 9:47










  • @TeXnician I'm curious :)
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 2 at 9:48






  • 1




    And, don't forget the related expression for overbrace: overbracea+b=c^textsomething. I'm surmising that the use of _ and ^ in these directives was meant to be, at least in part, somewhat mnemonic.
    – Mico
    Dec 2 at 10:01











  • If that plain TeX syntax bother: letoldunderbraceunderbrace defunderbrace#1#2oldunderbrace#1_#2
    – Fran
    Dec 2 at 10:58






  • 1




    @manooooh Thank you!
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 5 at 5:44














up vote
25
down vote

favorite
2












Why is underbrace (and similar commands) in the form



underbracemy formula_some text under my formula


?



Shouldn't a standard macro be in the form



underbrace[some text under my formula]my formula


since the text to put under is optional?



Why is it treated like a math operator?



documentclassarticle
usepackageamsmath
begindocument
[
underbracea+b=c
]
[
underbracea+b=c_textsomething
]
[
lim_xto a x= a
]
enddocument


enter image description here










share|improve this question





















  • I don't know, but probably to be consistent with plain TeX.
    – TeXnician
    Dec 2 at 9:47










  • @TeXnician I'm curious :)
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 2 at 9:48






  • 1




    And, don't forget the related expression for overbrace: overbracea+b=c^textsomething. I'm surmising that the use of _ and ^ in these directives was meant to be, at least in part, somewhat mnemonic.
    – Mico
    Dec 2 at 10:01











  • If that plain TeX syntax bother: letoldunderbraceunderbrace defunderbrace#1#2oldunderbrace#1_#2
    – Fran
    Dec 2 at 10:58






  • 1




    @manooooh Thank you!
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 5 at 5:44












up vote
25
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
25
down vote

favorite
2






2





Why is underbrace (and similar commands) in the form



underbracemy formula_some text under my formula


?



Shouldn't a standard macro be in the form



underbrace[some text under my formula]my formula


since the text to put under is optional?



Why is it treated like a math operator?



documentclassarticle
usepackageamsmath
begindocument
[
underbracea+b=c
]
[
underbracea+b=c_textsomething
]
[
lim_xto a x= a
]
enddocument


enter image description here










share|improve this question













Why is underbrace (and similar commands) in the form



underbracemy formula_some text under my formula


?



Shouldn't a standard macro be in the form



underbrace[some text under my formula]my formula


since the text to put under is optional?



Why is it treated like a math operator?



documentclassarticle
usepackageamsmath
begindocument
[
underbracea+b=c
]
[
underbracea+b=c_textsomething
]
[
lim_xto a x= a
]
enddocument


enter image description here







math-mode macros






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Dec 2 at 9:39









CarLaTeX

28.6k446122




28.6k446122











  • I don't know, but probably to be consistent with plain TeX.
    – TeXnician
    Dec 2 at 9:47










  • @TeXnician I'm curious :)
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 2 at 9:48






  • 1




    And, don't forget the related expression for overbrace: overbracea+b=c^textsomething. I'm surmising that the use of _ and ^ in these directives was meant to be, at least in part, somewhat mnemonic.
    – Mico
    Dec 2 at 10:01











  • If that plain TeX syntax bother: letoldunderbraceunderbrace defunderbrace#1#2oldunderbrace#1_#2
    – Fran
    Dec 2 at 10:58






  • 1




    @manooooh Thank you!
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 5 at 5:44
















  • I don't know, but probably to be consistent with plain TeX.
    – TeXnician
    Dec 2 at 9:47










  • @TeXnician I'm curious :)
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 2 at 9:48






  • 1




    And, don't forget the related expression for overbrace: overbracea+b=c^textsomething. I'm surmising that the use of _ and ^ in these directives was meant to be, at least in part, somewhat mnemonic.
    – Mico
    Dec 2 at 10:01











  • If that plain TeX syntax bother: letoldunderbraceunderbrace defunderbrace#1#2oldunderbrace#1_#2
    – Fran
    Dec 2 at 10:58






  • 1




    @manooooh Thank you!
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 5 at 5:44















I don't know, but probably to be consistent with plain TeX.
– TeXnician
Dec 2 at 9:47




I don't know, but probably to be consistent with plain TeX.
– TeXnician
Dec 2 at 9:47












@TeXnician I'm curious :)
– CarLaTeX
Dec 2 at 9:48




@TeXnician I'm curious :)
– CarLaTeX
Dec 2 at 9:48




1




1




And, don't forget the related expression for overbrace: overbracea+b=c^textsomething. I'm surmising that the use of _ and ^ in these directives was meant to be, at least in part, somewhat mnemonic.
– Mico
Dec 2 at 10:01





And, don't forget the related expression for overbrace: overbracea+b=c^textsomething. I'm surmising that the use of _ and ^ in these directives was meant to be, at least in part, somewhat mnemonic.
– Mico
Dec 2 at 10:01













If that plain TeX syntax bother: letoldunderbraceunderbrace defunderbrace#1#2oldunderbrace#1_#2
– Fran
Dec 2 at 10:58




If that plain TeX syntax bother: letoldunderbraceunderbrace defunderbrace#1#2oldunderbrace#1_#2
– Fran
Dec 2 at 10:58




1




1




@manooooh Thank you!
– CarLaTeX
Dec 5 at 5:44




@manooooh Thank you!
– CarLaTeX
Dec 5 at 5:44










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
17
down vote



accepted










The underbrace macro is exactly the same in LaTeX as in plain: it's one of those things which came with the original 'load on top of plain' approach, well before latex.ltx. Moreover, the _ 'argument' isn't an argument at all, it's a TeX core subscript. It looks like an argument, but the construction uses low-level TeX math mode primitives.



Re-implemented today, one would likely set up such that the alignment is done without the primitives, and thus the text part would be an argument. But that's a completely different question!






share|improve this answer


















  • 1




    Thank you, so TeXnician was right :)
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 2 at 9:59






  • 2




    One might argue that it is more-or-less a subscript anyway, so the interface is consistent with sum, int, ...
    – Joseph Wright
    Dec 2 at 10:00






  • 1




    And also mnemonic, as Mico said.
    – CarLaTeX
    Dec 2 at 10:10






  • 8




    @JosephWright There's the added problem that underbracea_b is treated as an Op atom, with consequences on spacing. It's usually better to brace it: underbracea_b.
    – egreg
    Dec 2 at 10:26










  • @egreg Sure, but that's not directly related to the syntax ...
    – Joseph Wright
    Dec 2 at 10:37

















up vote
3
down vote













When you look at the definition of underbrace (or overbrace) you'll see the following:



> underbrace=macro:
#1->mathop vtop m@th ialign ##crcr $hfil displaystyle #1hfil $crcr
noalign kern 3p@ nointerlineskip upbracefill crcr noalign kern 3p@
limits .


It shows that the first (and only) argument to underbrace is set as a math operator and closes with limits. And, math operators have their limits (superscripts and subscripts) set on top/below it. It's therefore no surprise that you can do:



enter image description here



$underbraceabcd_dcba underbraceabcd^dcba$


It's treated like a math operator because that's the primitive way of stacking elements below/above something so that it doesn't displace the someting vertically.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    1
    down vote













    I think it's much easier to iterate with the underscore syntax. For example



    documentclassarticle
    usepackageamsmath
    begindocument
    beginequation*
    underbraceleft(frac12+frac13right)_
    >underbracefrac14+frac14_
    underbrace2cdot frac14_
    frac12



    quad + quad
    underbraceleft(frac14+frac15+frac16+frac17right)_
    >underbracefrac18+frac18+frac18+frac18_
    underbrace4cdot frac18_
    frac12



    quad > quad frac12+frac12
    endequation*

    enddocument


    Try to do the same with the "option" syntax. The point is that with the "underscore" syntax, you write the code for the iteration sequentially, from left to right, similarly to what the output will look like, while with the option syntax, you'd end up writing from right to left, so the bottom 1/2 in the output will be the leftmost formula after the three underbrace commands.



    iterating underbrace






    share|improve this answer






















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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted










      The underbrace macro is exactly the same in LaTeX as in plain: it's one of those things which came with the original 'load on top of plain' approach, well before latex.ltx. Moreover, the _ 'argument' isn't an argument at all, it's a TeX core subscript. It looks like an argument, but the construction uses low-level TeX math mode primitives.



      Re-implemented today, one would likely set up such that the alignment is done without the primitives, and thus the text part would be an argument. But that's a completely different question!






      share|improve this answer


















      • 1




        Thank you, so TeXnician was right :)
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 9:59






      • 2




        One might argue that it is more-or-less a subscript anyway, so the interface is consistent with sum, int, ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:00






      • 1




        And also mnemonic, as Mico said.
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 10:10






      • 8




        @JosephWright There's the added problem that underbracea_b is treated as an Op atom, with consequences on spacing. It's usually better to brace it: underbracea_b.
        – egreg
        Dec 2 at 10:26










      • @egreg Sure, but that's not directly related to the syntax ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:37














      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted










      The underbrace macro is exactly the same in LaTeX as in plain: it's one of those things which came with the original 'load on top of plain' approach, well before latex.ltx. Moreover, the _ 'argument' isn't an argument at all, it's a TeX core subscript. It looks like an argument, but the construction uses low-level TeX math mode primitives.



      Re-implemented today, one would likely set up such that the alignment is done without the primitives, and thus the text part would be an argument. But that's a completely different question!






      share|improve this answer


















      • 1




        Thank you, so TeXnician was right :)
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 9:59






      • 2




        One might argue that it is more-or-less a subscript anyway, so the interface is consistent with sum, int, ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:00






      • 1




        And also mnemonic, as Mico said.
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 10:10






      • 8




        @JosephWright There's the added problem that underbracea_b is treated as an Op atom, with consequences on spacing. It's usually better to brace it: underbracea_b.
        – egreg
        Dec 2 at 10:26










      • @egreg Sure, but that's not directly related to the syntax ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:37












      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      17
      down vote



      accepted






      The underbrace macro is exactly the same in LaTeX as in plain: it's one of those things which came with the original 'load on top of plain' approach, well before latex.ltx. Moreover, the _ 'argument' isn't an argument at all, it's a TeX core subscript. It looks like an argument, but the construction uses low-level TeX math mode primitives.



      Re-implemented today, one would likely set up such that the alignment is done without the primitives, and thus the text part would be an argument. But that's a completely different question!






      share|improve this answer














      The underbrace macro is exactly the same in LaTeX as in plain: it's one of those things which came with the original 'load on top of plain' approach, well before latex.ltx. Moreover, the _ 'argument' isn't an argument at all, it's a TeX core subscript. It looks like an argument, but the construction uses low-level TeX math mode primitives.



      Re-implemented today, one would likely set up such that the alignment is done without the primitives, and thus the text part would be an argument. But that's a completely different question!







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited Dec 2 at 13:38









      CarLaTeX

      28.6k446122




      28.6k446122










      answered Dec 2 at 9:56









      Joseph Wright

      201k21554879




      201k21554879







      • 1




        Thank you, so TeXnician was right :)
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 9:59






      • 2




        One might argue that it is more-or-less a subscript anyway, so the interface is consistent with sum, int, ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:00






      • 1




        And also mnemonic, as Mico said.
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 10:10






      • 8




        @JosephWright There's the added problem that underbracea_b is treated as an Op atom, with consequences on spacing. It's usually better to brace it: underbracea_b.
        – egreg
        Dec 2 at 10:26










      • @egreg Sure, but that's not directly related to the syntax ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:37












      • 1




        Thank you, so TeXnician was right :)
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 9:59






      • 2




        One might argue that it is more-or-less a subscript anyway, so the interface is consistent with sum, int, ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:00






      • 1




        And also mnemonic, as Mico said.
        – CarLaTeX
        Dec 2 at 10:10






      • 8




        @JosephWright There's the added problem that underbracea_b is treated as an Op atom, with consequences on spacing. It's usually better to brace it: underbracea_b.
        – egreg
        Dec 2 at 10:26










      • @egreg Sure, but that's not directly related to the syntax ...
        – Joseph Wright
        Dec 2 at 10:37







      1




      1




      Thank you, so TeXnician was right :)
      – CarLaTeX
      Dec 2 at 9:59




      Thank you, so TeXnician was right :)
      – CarLaTeX
      Dec 2 at 9:59




      2




      2




      One might argue that it is more-or-less a subscript anyway, so the interface is consistent with sum, int, ...
      – Joseph Wright
      Dec 2 at 10:00




      One might argue that it is more-or-less a subscript anyway, so the interface is consistent with sum, int, ...
      – Joseph Wright
      Dec 2 at 10:00




      1




      1




      And also mnemonic, as Mico said.
      – CarLaTeX
      Dec 2 at 10:10




      And also mnemonic, as Mico said.
      – CarLaTeX
      Dec 2 at 10:10




      8




      8




      @JosephWright There's the added problem that underbracea_b is treated as an Op atom, with consequences on spacing. It's usually better to brace it: underbracea_b.
      – egreg
      Dec 2 at 10:26




      @JosephWright There's the added problem that underbracea_b is treated as an Op atom, with consequences on spacing. It's usually better to brace it: underbracea_b.
      – egreg
      Dec 2 at 10:26












      @egreg Sure, but that's not directly related to the syntax ...
      – Joseph Wright
      Dec 2 at 10:37




      @egreg Sure, but that's not directly related to the syntax ...
      – Joseph Wright
      Dec 2 at 10:37










      up vote
      3
      down vote













      When you look at the definition of underbrace (or overbrace) you'll see the following:



      > underbrace=macro:
      #1->mathop vtop m@th ialign ##crcr $hfil displaystyle #1hfil $crcr
      noalign kern 3p@ nointerlineskip upbracefill crcr noalign kern 3p@
      limits .


      It shows that the first (and only) argument to underbrace is set as a math operator and closes with limits. And, math operators have their limits (superscripts and subscripts) set on top/below it. It's therefore no surprise that you can do:



      enter image description here



      $underbraceabcd_dcba underbraceabcd^dcba$


      It's treated like a math operator because that's the primitive way of stacking elements below/above something so that it doesn't displace the someting vertically.






      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        3
        down vote













        When you look at the definition of underbrace (or overbrace) you'll see the following:



        > underbrace=macro:
        #1->mathop vtop m@th ialign ##crcr $hfil displaystyle #1hfil $crcr
        noalign kern 3p@ nointerlineskip upbracefill crcr noalign kern 3p@
        limits .


        It shows that the first (and only) argument to underbrace is set as a math operator and closes with limits. And, math operators have their limits (superscripts and subscripts) set on top/below it. It's therefore no surprise that you can do:



        enter image description here



        $underbraceabcd_dcba underbraceabcd^dcba$


        It's treated like a math operator because that's the primitive way of stacking elements below/above something so that it doesn't displace the someting vertically.






        share|improve this answer






















          up vote
          3
          down vote










          up vote
          3
          down vote









          When you look at the definition of underbrace (or overbrace) you'll see the following:



          > underbrace=macro:
          #1->mathop vtop m@th ialign ##crcr $hfil displaystyle #1hfil $crcr
          noalign kern 3p@ nointerlineskip upbracefill crcr noalign kern 3p@
          limits .


          It shows that the first (and only) argument to underbrace is set as a math operator and closes with limits. And, math operators have their limits (superscripts and subscripts) set on top/below it. It's therefore no surprise that you can do:



          enter image description here



          $underbraceabcd_dcba underbraceabcd^dcba$


          It's treated like a math operator because that's the primitive way of stacking elements below/above something so that it doesn't displace the someting vertically.






          share|improve this answer












          When you look at the definition of underbrace (or overbrace) you'll see the following:



          > underbrace=macro:
          #1->mathop vtop m@th ialign ##crcr $hfil displaystyle #1hfil $crcr
          noalign kern 3p@ nointerlineskip upbracefill crcr noalign kern 3p@
          limits .


          It shows that the first (and only) argument to underbrace is set as a math operator and closes with limits. And, math operators have their limits (superscripts and subscripts) set on top/below it. It's therefore no surprise that you can do:



          enter image description here



          $underbraceabcd_dcba underbraceabcd^dcba$


          It's treated like a math operator because that's the primitive way of stacking elements below/above something so that it doesn't displace the someting vertically.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Dec 5 at 3:59









          Werner

          434k619531639




          434k619531639




















              up vote
              1
              down vote













              I think it's much easier to iterate with the underscore syntax. For example



              documentclassarticle
              usepackageamsmath
              begindocument
              beginequation*
              underbraceleft(frac12+frac13right)_
              >underbracefrac14+frac14_
              underbrace2cdot frac14_
              frac12



              quad + quad
              underbraceleft(frac14+frac15+frac16+frac17right)_
              >underbracefrac18+frac18+frac18+frac18_
              underbrace4cdot frac18_
              frac12



              quad > quad frac12+frac12
              endequation*

              enddocument


              Try to do the same with the "option" syntax. The point is that with the "underscore" syntax, you write the code for the iteration sequentially, from left to right, similarly to what the output will look like, while with the option syntax, you'd end up writing from right to left, so the bottom 1/2 in the output will be the leftmost formula after the three underbrace commands.



              iterating underbrace






              share|improve this answer


























                up vote
                1
                down vote













                I think it's much easier to iterate with the underscore syntax. For example



                documentclassarticle
                usepackageamsmath
                begindocument
                beginequation*
                underbraceleft(frac12+frac13right)_
                >underbracefrac14+frac14_
                underbrace2cdot frac14_
                frac12



                quad + quad
                underbraceleft(frac14+frac15+frac16+frac17right)_
                >underbracefrac18+frac18+frac18+frac18_
                underbrace4cdot frac18_
                frac12



                quad > quad frac12+frac12
                endequation*

                enddocument


                Try to do the same with the "option" syntax. The point is that with the "underscore" syntax, you write the code for the iteration sequentially, from left to right, similarly to what the output will look like, while with the option syntax, you'd end up writing from right to left, so the bottom 1/2 in the output will be the leftmost formula after the three underbrace commands.



                iterating underbrace






                share|improve this answer
























                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote









                  I think it's much easier to iterate with the underscore syntax. For example



                  documentclassarticle
                  usepackageamsmath
                  begindocument
                  beginequation*
                  underbraceleft(frac12+frac13right)_
                  >underbracefrac14+frac14_
                  underbrace2cdot frac14_
                  frac12



                  quad + quad
                  underbraceleft(frac14+frac15+frac16+frac17right)_
                  >underbracefrac18+frac18+frac18+frac18_
                  underbrace4cdot frac18_
                  frac12



                  quad > quad frac12+frac12
                  endequation*

                  enddocument


                  Try to do the same with the "option" syntax. The point is that with the "underscore" syntax, you write the code for the iteration sequentially, from left to right, similarly to what the output will look like, while with the option syntax, you'd end up writing from right to left, so the bottom 1/2 in the output will be the leftmost formula after the three underbrace commands.



                  iterating underbrace






                  share|improve this answer














                  I think it's much easier to iterate with the underscore syntax. For example



                  documentclassarticle
                  usepackageamsmath
                  begindocument
                  beginequation*
                  underbraceleft(frac12+frac13right)_
                  >underbracefrac14+frac14_
                  underbrace2cdot frac14_
                  frac12



                  quad + quad
                  underbraceleft(frac14+frac15+frac16+frac17right)_
                  >underbracefrac18+frac18+frac18+frac18_
                  underbrace4cdot frac18_
                  frac12



                  quad > quad frac12+frac12
                  endequation*

                  enddocument


                  Try to do the same with the "option" syntax. The point is that with the "underscore" syntax, you write the code for the iteration sequentially, from left to right, similarly to what the output will look like, while with the option syntax, you'd end up writing from right to left, so the bottom 1/2 in the output will be the leftmost formula after the three underbrace commands.



                  iterating underbrace







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 5 at 3:56

























                  answered Dec 5 at 3:21









                  Máté Wierdl

                  40428




                  40428



























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