Why do we call O2 oxygen? [on hold]

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I have been taught that oxygen is a chemical element, in other words a certain type of atom that has 8 protons in its nucleus. So why is O2 called oxygen? It is not a type of atom but rather a molecule.










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put on hold as off-topic by Mithoron, user55119, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius, Jon Custer Nov 28 at 3:40


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Homework questions must demonstrate some effort to understand the underlying concepts. For help asking a good homework question, see: How do I ask homework questions on Chemistry Stack Exchange?" – user55119, Tyberius
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.








  • 19




    You can call it molecular oxygen all the time, or at least until someone tells you it's a waste of time.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:32






  • 19




    Or maybe gaseous diatomic molecular oxygen, just to be really sure no one thinks you're somehow talking about ozone or red oxygen.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:34






  • 7




    Note that the same thing applies not just to oxygen, but also to hydrogen, nitrogen, fluorine, bromine, chlorine, and iodine. All of these elements prefer diatomic molecular form.
    – marcelm
    Nov 26 at 14:09






  • 3




    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's about semantics.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 26 at 20:19










  • What's in 02 that is not oxygen?
    – Beanluc
    Nov 27 at 5:26














up vote
15
down vote

favorite
3












I have been taught that oxygen is a chemical element, in other words a certain type of atom that has 8 protons in its nucleus. So why is O2 called oxygen? It is not a type of atom but rather a molecule.










share|improve this question















put on hold as off-topic by Mithoron, user55119, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius, Jon Custer Nov 28 at 3:40


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Homework questions must demonstrate some effort to understand the underlying concepts. For help asking a good homework question, see: How do I ask homework questions on Chemistry Stack Exchange?" – user55119, Tyberius
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.








  • 19




    You can call it molecular oxygen all the time, or at least until someone tells you it's a waste of time.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:32






  • 19




    Or maybe gaseous diatomic molecular oxygen, just to be really sure no one thinks you're somehow talking about ozone or red oxygen.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:34






  • 7




    Note that the same thing applies not just to oxygen, but also to hydrogen, nitrogen, fluorine, bromine, chlorine, and iodine. All of these elements prefer diatomic molecular form.
    – marcelm
    Nov 26 at 14:09






  • 3




    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's about semantics.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 26 at 20:19










  • What's in 02 that is not oxygen?
    – Beanluc
    Nov 27 at 5:26












up vote
15
down vote

favorite
3









up vote
15
down vote

favorite
3






3





I have been taught that oxygen is a chemical element, in other words a certain type of atom that has 8 protons in its nucleus. So why is O2 called oxygen? It is not a type of atom but rather a molecule.










share|improve this question















I have been taught that oxygen is a chemical element, in other words a certain type of atom that has 8 protons in its nucleus. So why is O2 called oxygen? It is not a type of atom but rather a molecule.







inorganic-chemistry terminology






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edited Nov 26 at 1:20









orthocresol

37.3k7109222




37.3k7109222










asked Nov 25 at 4:04









J. Smith

8016




8016




put on hold as off-topic by Mithoron, user55119, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius, Jon Custer Nov 28 at 3:40


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Homework questions must demonstrate some effort to understand the underlying concepts. For help asking a good homework question, see: How do I ask homework questions on Chemistry Stack Exchange?" – user55119, Tyberius
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.




put on hold as off-topic by Mithoron, user55119, Todd Minehardt, Tyberius, Jon Custer Nov 28 at 3:40


This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:


  • "Homework questions must demonstrate some effort to understand the underlying concepts. For help asking a good homework question, see: How do I ask homework questions on Chemistry Stack Exchange?" – user55119, Tyberius
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.







  • 19




    You can call it molecular oxygen all the time, or at least until someone tells you it's a waste of time.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:32






  • 19




    Or maybe gaseous diatomic molecular oxygen, just to be really sure no one thinks you're somehow talking about ozone or red oxygen.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:34






  • 7




    Note that the same thing applies not just to oxygen, but also to hydrogen, nitrogen, fluorine, bromine, chlorine, and iodine. All of these elements prefer diatomic molecular form.
    – marcelm
    Nov 26 at 14:09






  • 3




    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's about semantics.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 26 at 20:19










  • What's in 02 that is not oxygen?
    – Beanluc
    Nov 27 at 5:26












  • 19




    You can call it molecular oxygen all the time, or at least until someone tells you it's a waste of time.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:32






  • 19




    Or maybe gaseous diatomic molecular oxygen, just to be really sure no one thinks you're somehow talking about ozone or red oxygen.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 25 at 21:34






  • 7




    Note that the same thing applies not just to oxygen, but also to hydrogen, nitrogen, fluorine, bromine, chlorine, and iodine. All of these elements prefer diatomic molecular form.
    – marcelm
    Nov 26 at 14:09






  • 3




    I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's about semantics.
    – Mithoron
    Nov 26 at 20:19










  • What's in 02 that is not oxygen?
    – Beanluc
    Nov 27 at 5:26







19




19




You can call it molecular oxygen all the time, or at least until someone tells you it's a waste of time.
– Mithoron
Nov 25 at 21:32




You can call it molecular oxygen all the time, or at least until someone tells you it's a waste of time.
– Mithoron
Nov 25 at 21:32




19




19




Or maybe gaseous diatomic molecular oxygen, just to be really sure no one thinks you're somehow talking about ozone or red oxygen.
– Mithoron
Nov 25 at 21:34




Or maybe gaseous diatomic molecular oxygen, just to be really sure no one thinks you're somehow talking about ozone or red oxygen.
– Mithoron
Nov 25 at 21:34




7




7




Note that the same thing applies not just to oxygen, but also to hydrogen, nitrogen, fluorine, bromine, chlorine, and iodine. All of these elements prefer diatomic molecular form.
– marcelm
Nov 26 at 14:09




Note that the same thing applies not just to oxygen, but also to hydrogen, nitrogen, fluorine, bromine, chlorine, and iodine. All of these elements prefer diatomic molecular form.
– marcelm
Nov 26 at 14:09




3




3




I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's about semantics.
– Mithoron
Nov 26 at 20:19




I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's about semantics.
– Mithoron
Nov 26 at 20:19












What's in 02 that is not oxygen?
– Beanluc
Nov 27 at 5:26




What's in 02 that is not oxygen?
– Beanluc
Nov 27 at 5:26










6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
50
down vote













I think what you may find most helpful is to know a bit of the history of element discovery and atomic theory.



The first pure substance containing only the element oxygen to be isolated was dioxygen ($ceO2$), in 1774, though it was called "dephlogisticated air" until 1777 when Lavoisier used the term "oxygen" for the first time. This was some 30 years before John Dalton even proposed the first empirical atomic theory. Back then, we only barely had an understanding of stoichiometry, such that Dalton famously claimed the molecular formula for water was $ceHO$. The fact that dioxygen is a substance made of molecules containing two atoms of oxygen probably wasn't widespread knowledge until at least 1811, with the gas stoichiometry experiments of Amadeo Avogadro.



Basically, for a point in time, we knew that there was a substance composed of a single type of atom, which could not be broken down into anything simpler. This fit the then-prevalent definition of an element; "a pure substance that could not be decomposed into any simpler substance". We knew that Lavoisier's "oxygen" had to be $ceO_n$, for some n, but we had no reason to assume $n neq 1$ for decades. By the time we figured out $n = 2$, the name "oxygen" was already widely used to refer to dioxygen. The fact that $n = 3$ also forms a stable compound in ambient conditions (ozone) would also not be known until 1867. A similar story happened with (di)nitrogen (octa)sulfur, (tetra)phosphorus, and so on. The only elements which form stable monoatomic substances in reasonable conditions are the noble gasses.



There is an interesting aspect to consider behind all this. There are some (such as Eric Scerri) who claim we are doing Chemistry a disservice in muddling together the properties of elements and the pure substances which they make. Nowadays our definition of an element is solely dependent on the number of protons inside an atomic nucleus, with no reference to reactivity or in what form the pure substance can be found. In this sense, the elements do not have "reactivities", "melting points", etc.; these are all properties of the pure substances. The only true properties of the elements are things such as electronic distribution, ionisation energies, and so on. However, it is common to see periodic tables stating the melting and boiling points the pure substances of each chemical element, and even Wikipedia bundles the physical properties of dioxygen with the atomic properties of elemental oxygen. For better or for worse, we're stuck with this subtle ambiguity in nomenclature.






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  • 1




    What do you define as "stable monoatomic substances" or "reasonable conditions"? Mercury in a puddle will evaporate at a significant rate in open air at 25C, producing a vapor whose molecular weight matches mercury's atomic weight, but mercury is hardly a noble gas.
    – supercat
    Nov 26 at 21:58










  • @supercat That's an excellent point. I considered metal vapours briefly, but evidently I forgot about mercury.
    – Nicolau Saker Neto
    Nov 27 at 6:18

















up vote
16
down vote













Technically, $ceO2$ is molecular oxygen. $ceO$, atomic oxygen, only exists under rare conditions; e.g. for a very short time after the molecule is dissociated by radiation, or where air pressure is so low that dissociated oxygen does not find a partner to recombine quickly.



Whenever one refers to an element, it is likely in the form of molecules, or metallically bound, except for the (usually) inert gases. The common yellow form of sulfur is as $ceS8$ molecules. However, it is still considered elemental sulfur, not a compound, because all the atoms are of the same type.



BTW, later comments indicate some confusion with the number of protons, found in the nucleus, and the electron cloud, found around it. Think of an atom as a fluffy ball of cotton candy (electron cloud), with a few sugar crystals (neutrons and protons) in the center. When atoms combine to form a molecule, only the cotton candy sticks together; the nuclei are separate, with the same number of protons and neutrons (no croutons, though) as in the atomic element. Nuclei can combine, with enough pressure, and that process is nuclear fusion -- which could be discussed better in the physics section of StackExchange.



In short, an element can be found in molecules; it's still an element.






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  • 1




    But why do we call O2 oxygen is my question? I thought only an atom with 8 protons can be called oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 25 at 6:10






  • 6




    Each atom does have 8 protons. A molecule of two atoms with 8 protons each is not one atom with 16 protons. BTW, it's called oxygen because the discoverer thought all acids contain it (oxy means biting, sharp or acid in Greek, ὀξύς). So there is a misnomer.
    – DrMoishe Pippik
    Nov 25 at 6:25










  • Not much of a misnomer, though, because oxygen is a good oxidiser; it completely destroys heavier alkali metals, for instance, and eats very quickly through warm hydrocarbons.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 11:28







  • 2




    @wizzwizz4 The term "oxidiser" was created later, and it's named that way because oxygen is the most common oxidiser.
    – NieDzejkob
    Nov 25 at 12:16










  • @NieDzejkob But oxidisation does bite through things.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 12:17

















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5
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It's simply a colloquialism for ease of reference. It is sort of like the way we call a heap of corn, corn. Instead of corn off the cob, like the comedian Mitch Hedberg jokes about. He says "corn" should mean "corn on an ear of corn", and a pile of corn kernels should be called "corn off the cob", but since we encounter "corn off the cob" much more often than a big ol ear of corn, we simply call it corn.



The more common something is, the less likely it is to be accurately named, and more likely it be colloquialized.






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  • 7




    12.5% keyword density of the word 'corn' in an answer to a question about oxygen, that's got to be a world record
    – Darren H
    Nov 25 at 10:14










  • I am not sure the rest of us get these "corn" (AKA maize) references.
    – Peter Mortensen
    Nov 25 at 16:15






  • 1




    Words can mean more than one thing. There is nothing whatsoever inaccurate about referring to individual kernels of corn as "corn".
    – David Richerby
    Nov 25 at 17:23






  • 1




    @DavidRicherby Duh; after all, corn originally meant "a grass with big seeds we use to make food", and still does in Traditional English. But the point mark makes is a correct one anyway - the uses that are more common get preferential treatment, because humans like to optimize their communication. Therefore, "molecular dioxygen" is called "oxygen", while "monooxygen" is called "elemental oxygen", if the distinction even needs to be made; just like you're more likely to use "car" rather than "a horse-less horse-drawn carriage". Accurate terminology helps communication, but so does efficiency.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:07






  • 1




    @Luaan but is it a colloquialism? It's just one sense of the word oxygen. How is it a colloquialism?
    – phoog
    Nov 26 at 17:32

















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4
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It would be very odd to try to deny all allotropes of an element that element's name, or to require an additional description as in the phrases "molecular oxygen" or (to exclude non-modal allotropes) "diatomic oxygen". Why would it be odd? Because it may require some very specific descriptions that quickly become distracting, difficult to get right, and unimportant to the point you want to make. This is especially true if an element exists in multiple allotropes, whose chemical reactions of present interest might only care about the overall atom count present.



It's easy to get used to monatomic and diatomic forms of elements (metals usually treated as honorary examples of the former), and forget about such creatures as:




  • $ceAs4$ and multiple allotropes that don't admit as neat a formula (which will be a theme),


  • $ceB12$ and other allotropes of boron


  • $ceO3$, $ceO4$ and $ceO8$


  • $ceP2$ vs $ceP4$ and multiple polymeric forms of phosphorus


  • $ceSe8$ and its crystalline and polymeric counterparts


  • $ceS_n$ where $n$ can be any of $2$ to $9$, $15$, $18$ or $20$

  • and some elements having pretty much no natural $X_mathrmsmall,n$ allotropes such as antimony, carbon, germanium and tellurium.

What would you like to call them all?






share|improve this answer






















  • When we say that certain elements “exist as molecules” what does that mean? From my understanding, an element is a species of atoms with the same number of protons, so when we say that oxygen, a species of atoms “exists” as a molecule, what does that mean precisely?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 4:23










  • @J.Smith Well, from my understanding, an element is a collection of atoms that all have the same proton number, said atoms possibly not separate. Obviously we can define terms however we want, but given what atoms usually do it would be strange to define a lot of matter as neither an element nor a compound nor mixture.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 6:11










  • So like a physical collection of atoms? If that’s the case, then when we talk about the reactivity of sodium why do we say that “sodium has one electron in its valence shell” as to imply that sodium is a type of atom?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 6:57






  • 1




    @J.Smith Well, there are contexts where you can assume a particular form is intended. Never mind sodium or oxygen; you see the Swiss-Army knife nature of language when we discuss something as simple as hydrogen. It means very different things to stellar astronomers vs Jupiter experts vs spectroscopers vs quantum mechanists vs organic chemists vs fuel storage researchers vs those discussing acids.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 7:44







  • 2




    @J.Smith Why wouldn't we? Sodium is an atom. It's also a metallic substance composed predominantly of sodium atoms. We only need to distinguish the two when it's important to what we're talking about, and the intended meaning isn't obvious. Whenever you're discussing anything, you need to be extremely mindful of context. Valence electrons are important because they affect how chemical bonds form - it should be pretty obvious why you want to discuss them when you're considering how sodium reacts with itself and other elements.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:12

















up vote
1
down vote













"Oxygen" is a set which has "atomic oxygen" and "molecular oxygen" as elements(of a set).
It's like asking why is a "Ford automobile" and a "Chevy automobile", each called an "automobile". So, calling "atomic oxygen", "oxygen" is not inconsistent. Neither is calling "molecular oxygen" oxygen inconsistent.
We can add ozone to this as we can say, "ozone is the triatomic form of oxygen".
There are no inconsistencies here.
Your question is not of science but of grammar. The singular and plural forms of the chemical elements are the same. We don't say, "oxygens", or "aluminums" unless we are talking about a property as "oxygens melting point is...". This question doesn't really belong here, but belongs in the category of English grammar.






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  • But I have been taught that “elements” are species of atoms. If oxygen is a species of atoms with 8 protons then how can we call O2 oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 4:08

















up vote
0
down vote













Diamond and graphite are both arrangements of carbon atoms, each with very different properties and yet they are both pure carbon, as is a single carbon atom, of course. Likewise $ceO2$ is as much oxygen as atomic oxygen is. The only complication is that what we habitually think of as oxygen is oxygen as a gas comprised of $ceO2$ molecules. Like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland, "a word means what [we] choose it to mean" and often we have to add modifiers or alternate terms to avoid ambiguity. Such is language...






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  • If O2 is a type of molecule, can we refer to a collection of O2 molecules simply as O2? Because it doesn’t matter how much we have, it is still O2 right?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 12:37

















6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes








6 Answers
6






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
50
down vote













I think what you may find most helpful is to know a bit of the history of element discovery and atomic theory.



The first pure substance containing only the element oxygen to be isolated was dioxygen ($ceO2$), in 1774, though it was called "dephlogisticated air" until 1777 when Lavoisier used the term "oxygen" for the first time. This was some 30 years before John Dalton even proposed the first empirical atomic theory. Back then, we only barely had an understanding of stoichiometry, such that Dalton famously claimed the molecular formula for water was $ceHO$. The fact that dioxygen is a substance made of molecules containing two atoms of oxygen probably wasn't widespread knowledge until at least 1811, with the gas stoichiometry experiments of Amadeo Avogadro.



Basically, for a point in time, we knew that there was a substance composed of a single type of atom, which could not be broken down into anything simpler. This fit the then-prevalent definition of an element; "a pure substance that could not be decomposed into any simpler substance". We knew that Lavoisier's "oxygen" had to be $ceO_n$, for some n, but we had no reason to assume $n neq 1$ for decades. By the time we figured out $n = 2$, the name "oxygen" was already widely used to refer to dioxygen. The fact that $n = 3$ also forms a stable compound in ambient conditions (ozone) would also not be known until 1867. A similar story happened with (di)nitrogen (octa)sulfur, (tetra)phosphorus, and so on. The only elements which form stable monoatomic substances in reasonable conditions are the noble gasses.



There is an interesting aspect to consider behind all this. There are some (such as Eric Scerri) who claim we are doing Chemistry a disservice in muddling together the properties of elements and the pure substances which they make. Nowadays our definition of an element is solely dependent on the number of protons inside an atomic nucleus, with no reference to reactivity or in what form the pure substance can be found. In this sense, the elements do not have "reactivities", "melting points", etc.; these are all properties of the pure substances. The only true properties of the elements are things such as electronic distribution, ionisation energies, and so on. However, it is common to see periodic tables stating the melting and boiling points the pure substances of each chemical element, and even Wikipedia bundles the physical properties of dioxygen with the atomic properties of elemental oxygen. For better or for worse, we're stuck with this subtle ambiguity in nomenclature.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1




    What do you define as "stable monoatomic substances" or "reasonable conditions"? Mercury in a puddle will evaporate at a significant rate in open air at 25C, producing a vapor whose molecular weight matches mercury's atomic weight, but mercury is hardly a noble gas.
    – supercat
    Nov 26 at 21:58










  • @supercat That's an excellent point. I considered metal vapours briefly, but evidently I forgot about mercury.
    – Nicolau Saker Neto
    Nov 27 at 6:18














up vote
50
down vote













I think what you may find most helpful is to know a bit of the history of element discovery and atomic theory.



The first pure substance containing only the element oxygen to be isolated was dioxygen ($ceO2$), in 1774, though it was called "dephlogisticated air" until 1777 when Lavoisier used the term "oxygen" for the first time. This was some 30 years before John Dalton even proposed the first empirical atomic theory. Back then, we only barely had an understanding of stoichiometry, such that Dalton famously claimed the molecular formula for water was $ceHO$. The fact that dioxygen is a substance made of molecules containing two atoms of oxygen probably wasn't widespread knowledge until at least 1811, with the gas stoichiometry experiments of Amadeo Avogadro.



Basically, for a point in time, we knew that there was a substance composed of a single type of atom, which could not be broken down into anything simpler. This fit the then-prevalent definition of an element; "a pure substance that could not be decomposed into any simpler substance". We knew that Lavoisier's "oxygen" had to be $ceO_n$, for some n, but we had no reason to assume $n neq 1$ for decades. By the time we figured out $n = 2$, the name "oxygen" was already widely used to refer to dioxygen. The fact that $n = 3$ also forms a stable compound in ambient conditions (ozone) would also not be known until 1867. A similar story happened with (di)nitrogen (octa)sulfur, (tetra)phosphorus, and so on. The only elements which form stable monoatomic substances in reasonable conditions are the noble gasses.



There is an interesting aspect to consider behind all this. There are some (such as Eric Scerri) who claim we are doing Chemistry a disservice in muddling together the properties of elements and the pure substances which they make. Nowadays our definition of an element is solely dependent on the number of protons inside an atomic nucleus, with no reference to reactivity or in what form the pure substance can be found. In this sense, the elements do not have "reactivities", "melting points", etc.; these are all properties of the pure substances. The only true properties of the elements are things such as electronic distribution, ionisation energies, and so on. However, it is common to see periodic tables stating the melting and boiling points the pure substances of each chemical element, and even Wikipedia bundles the physical properties of dioxygen with the atomic properties of elemental oxygen. For better or for worse, we're stuck with this subtle ambiguity in nomenclature.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1




    What do you define as "stable monoatomic substances" or "reasonable conditions"? Mercury in a puddle will evaporate at a significant rate in open air at 25C, producing a vapor whose molecular weight matches mercury's atomic weight, but mercury is hardly a noble gas.
    – supercat
    Nov 26 at 21:58










  • @supercat That's an excellent point. I considered metal vapours briefly, but evidently I forgot about mercury.
    – Nicolau Saker Neto
    Nov 27 at 6:18












up vote
50
down vote










up vote
50
down vote









I think what you may find most helpful is to know a bit of the history of element discovery and atomic theory.



The first pure substance containing only the element oxygen to be isolated was dioxygen ($ceO2$), in 1774, though it was called "dephlogisticated air" until 1777 when Lavoisier used the term "oxygen" for the first time. This was some 30 years before John Dalton even proposed the first empirical atomic theory. Back then, we only barely had an understanding of stoichiometry, such that Dalton famously claimed the molecular formula for water was $ceHO$. The fact that dioxygen is a substance made of molecules containing two atoms of oxygen probably wasn't widespread knowledge until at least 1811, with the gas stoichiometry experiments of Amadeo Avogadro.



Basically, for a point in time, we knew that there was a substance composed of a single type of atom, which could not be broken down into anything simpler. This fit the then-prevalent definition of an element; "a pure substance that could not be decomposed into any simpler substance". We knew that Lavoisier's "oxygen" had to be $ceO_n$, for some n, but we had no reason to assume $n neq 1$ for decades. By the time we figured out $n = 2$, the name "oxygen" was already widely used to refer to dioxygen. The fact that $n = 3$ also forms a stable compound in ambient conditions (ozone) would also not be known until 1867. A similar story happened with (di)nitrogen (octa)sulfur, (tetra)phosphorus, and so on. The only elements which form stable monoatomic substances in reasonable conditions are the noble gasses.



There is an interesting aspect to consider behind all this. There are some (such as Eric Scerri) who claim we are doing Chemistry a disservice in muddling together the properties of elements and the pure substances which they make. Nowadays our definition of an element is solely dependent on the number of protons inside an atomic nucleus, with no reference to reactivity or in what form the pure substance can be found. In this sense, the elements do not have "reactivities", "melting points", etc.; these are all properties of the pure substances. The only true properties of the elements are things such as electronic distribution, ionisation energies, and so on. However, it is common to see periodic tables stating the melting and boiling points the pure substances of each chemical element, and even Wikipedia bundles the physical properties of dioxygen with the atomic properties of elemental oxygen. For better or for worse, we're stuck with this subtle ambiguity in nomenclature.






share|improve this answer














I think what you may find most helpful is to know a bit of the history of element discovery and atomic theory.



The first pure substance containing only the element oxygen to be isolated was dioxygen ($ceO2$), in 1774, though it was called "dephlogisticated air" until 1777 when Lavoisier used the term "oxygen" for the first time. This was some 30 years before John Dalton even proposed the first empirical atomic theory. Back then, we only barely had an understanding of stoichiometry, such that Dalton famously claimed the molecular formula for water was $ceHO$. The fact that dioxygen is a substance made of molecules containing two atoms of oxygen probably wasn't widespread knowledge until at least 1811, with the gas stoichiometry experiments of Amadeo Avogadro.



Basically, for a point in time, we knew that there was a substance composed of a single type of atom, which could not be broken down into anything simpler. This fit the then-prevalent definition of an element; "a pure substance that could not be decomposed into any simpler substance". We knew that Lavoisier's "oxygen" had to be $ceO_n$, for some n, but we had no reason to assume $n neq 1$ for decades. By the time we figured out $n = 2$, the name "oxygen" was already widely used to refer to dioxygen. The fact that $n = 3$ also forms a stable compound in ambient conditions (ozone) would also not be known until 1867. A similar story happened with (di)nitrogen (octa)sulfur, (tetra)phosphorus, and so on. The only elements which form stable monoatomic substances in reasonable conditions are the noble gasses.



There is an interesting aspect to consider behind all this. There are some (such as Eric Scerri) who claim we are doing Chemistry a disservice in muddling together the properties of elements and the pure substances which they make. Nowadays our definition of an element is solely dependent on the number of protons inside an atomic nucleus, with no reference to reactivity or in what form the pure substance can be found. In this sense, the elements do not have "reactivities", "melting points", etc.; these are all properties of the pure substances. The only true properties of the elements are things such as electronic distribution, ionisation energies, and so on. However, it is common to see periodic tables stating the melting and boiling points the pure substances of each chemical element, and even Wikipedia bundles the physical properties of dioxygen with the atomic properties of elemental oxygen. For better or for worse, we're stuck with this subtle ambiguity in nomenclature.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 25 at 11:20

























answered Nov 25 at 11:10









Nicolau Saker Neto

18.3k35390




18.3k35390







  • 1




    What do you define as "stable monoatomic substances" or "reasonable conditions"? Mercury in a puddle will evaporate at a significant rate in open air at 25C, producing a vapor whose molecular weight matches mercury's atomic weight, but mercury is hardly a noble gas.
    – supercat
    Nov 26 at 21:58










  • @supercat That's an excellent point. I considered metal vapours briefly, but evidently I forgot about mercury.
    – Nicolau Saker Neto
    Nov 27 at 6:18












  • 1




    What do you define as "stable monoatomic substances" or "reasonable conditions"? Mercury in a puddle will evaporate at a significant rate in open air at 25C, producing a vapor whose molecular weight matches mercury's atomic weight, but mercury is hardly a noble gas.
    – supercat
    Nov 26 at 21:58










  • @supercat That's an excellent point. I considered metal vapours briefly, but evidently I forgot about mercury.
    – Nicolau Saker Neto
    Nov 27 at 6:18







1




1




What do you define as "stable monoatomic substances" or "reasonable conditions"? Mercury in a puddle will evaporate at a significant rate in open air at 25C, producing a vapor whose molecular weight matches mercury's atomic weight, but mercury is hardly a noble gas.
– supercat
Nov 26 at 21:58




What do you define as "stable monoatomic substances" or "reasonable conditions"? Mercury in a puddle will evaporate at a significant rate in open air at 25C, producing a vapor whose molecular weight matches mercury's atomic weight, but mercury is hardly a noble gas.
– supercat
Nov 26 at 21:58












@supercat That's an excellent point. I considered metal vapours briefly, but evidently I forgot about mercury.
– Nicolau Saker Neto
Nov 27 at 6:18




@supercat That's an excellent point. I considered metal vapours briefly, but evidently I forgot about mercury.
– Nicolau Saker Neto
Nov 27 at 6:18










up vote
16
down vote













Technically, $ceO2$ is molecular oxygen. $ceO$, atomic oxygen, only exists under rare conditions; e.g. for a very short time after the molecule is dissociated by radiation, or where air pressure is so low that dissociated oxygen does not find a partner to recombine quickly.



Whenever one refers to an element, it is likely in the form of molecules, or metallically bound, except for the (usually) inert gases. The common yellow form of sulfur is as $ceS8$ molecules. However, it is still considered elemental sulfur, not a compound, because all the atoms are of the same type.



BTW, later comments indicate some confusion with the number of protons, found in the nucleus, and the electron cloud, found around it. Think of an atom as a fluffy ball of cotton candy (electron cloud), with a few sugar crystals (neutrons and protons) in the center. When atoms combine to form a molecule, only the cotton candy sticks together; the nuclei are separate, with the same number of protons and neutrons (no croutons, though) as in the atomic element. Nuclei can combine, with enough pressure, and that process is nuclear fusion -- which could be discussed better in the physics section of StackExchange.



In short, an element can be found in molecules; it's still an element.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1




    But why do we call O2 oxygen is my question? I thought only an atom with 8 protons can be called oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 25 at 6:10






  • 6




    Each atom does have 8 protons. A molecule of two atoms with 8 protons each is not one atom with 16 protons. BTW, it's called oxygen because the discoverer thought all acids contain it (oxy means biting, sharp or acid in Greek, ὀξύς). So there is a misnomer.
    – DrMoishe Pippik
    Nov 25 at 6:25










  • Not much of a misnomer, though, because oxygen is a good oxidiser; it completely destroys heavier alkali metals, for instance, and eats very quickly through warm hydrocarbons.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 11:28







  • 2




    @wizzwizz4 The term "oxidiser" was created later, and it's named that way because oxygen is the most common oxidiser.
    – NieDzejkob
    Nov 25 at 12:16










  • @NieDzejkob But oxidisation does bite through things.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 12:17














up vote
16
down vote













Technically, $ceO2$ is molecular oxygen. $ceO$, atomic oxygen, only exists under rare conditions; e.g. for a very short time after the molecule is dissociated by radiation, or where air pressure is so low that dissociated oxygen does not find a partner to recombine quickly.



Whenever one refers to an element, it is likely in the form of molecules, or metallically bound, except for the (usually) inert gases. The common yellow form of sulfur is as $ceS8$ molecules. However, it is still considered elemental sulfur, not a compound, because all the atoms are of the same type.



BTW, later comments indicate some confusion with the number of protons, found in the nucleus, and the electron cloud, found around it. Think of an atom as a fluffy ball of cotton candy (electron cloud), with a few sugar crystals (neutrons and protons) in the center. When atoms combine to form a molecule, only the cotton candy sticks together; the nuclei are separate, with the same number of protons and neutrons (no croutons, though) as in the atomic element. Nuclei can combine, with enough pressure, and that process is nuclear fusion -- which could be discussed better in the physics section of StackExchange.



In short, an element can be found in molecules; it's still an element.






share|improve this answer


















  • 1




    But why do we call O2 oxygen is my question? I thought only an atom with 8 protons can be called oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 25 at 6:10






  • 6




    Each atom does have 8 protons. A molecule of two atoms with 8 protons each is not one atom with 16 protons. BTW, it's called oxygen because the discoverer thought all acids contain it (oxy means biting, sharp or acid in Greek, ὀξύς). So there is a misnomer.
    – DrMoishe Pippik
    Nov 25 at 6:25










  • Not much of a misnomer, though, because oxygen is a good oxidiser; it completely destroys heavier alkali metals, for instance, and eats very quickly through warm hydrocarbons.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 11:28







  • 2




    @wizzwizz4 The term "oxidiser" was created later, and it's named that way because oxygen is the most common oxidiser.
    – NieDzejkob
    Nov 25 at 12:16










  • @NieDzejkob But oxidisation does bite through things.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 12:17












up vote
16
down vote










up vote
16
down vote









Technically, $ceO2$ is molecular oxygen. $ceO$, atomic oxygen, only exists under rare conditions; e.g. for a very short time after the molecule is dissociated by radiation, or where air pressure is so low that dissociated oxygen does not find a partner to recombine quickly.



Whenever one refers to an element, it is likely in the form of molecules, or metallically bound, except for the (usually) inert gases. The common yellow form of sulfur is as $ceS8$ molecules. However, it is still considered elemental sulfur, not a compound, because all the atoms are of the same type.



BTW, later comments indicate some confusion with the number of protons, found in the nucleus, and the electron cloud, found around it. Think of an atom as a fluffy ball of cotton candy (electron cloud), with a few sugar crystals (neutrons and protons) in the center. When atoms combine to form a molecule, only the cotton candy sticks together; the nuclei are separate, with the same number of protons and neutrons (no croutons, though) as in the atomic element. Nuclei can combine, with enough pressure, and that process is nuclear fusion -- which could be discussed better in the physics section of StackExchange.



In short, an element can be found in molecules; it's still an element.






share|improve this answer














Technically, $ceO2$ is molecular oxygen. $ceO$, atomic oxygen, only exists under rare conditions; e.g. for a very short time after the molecule is dissociated by radiation, or where air pressure is so low that dissociated oxygen does not find a partner to recombine quickly.



Whenever one refers to an element, it is likely in the form of molecules, or metallically bound, except for the (usually) inert gases. The common yellow form of sulfur is as $ceS8$ molecules. However, it is still considered elemental sulfur, not a compound, because all the atoms are of the same type.



BTW, later comments indicate some confusion with the number of protons, found in the nucleus, and the electron cloud, found around it. Think of an atom as a fluffy ball of cotton candy (electron cloud), with a few sugar crystals (neutrons and protons) in the center. When atoms combine to form a molecule, only the cotton candy sticks together; the nuclei are separate, with the same number of protons and neutrons (no croutons, though) as in the atomic element. Nuclei can combine, with enough pressure, and that process is nuclear fusion -- which could be discussed better in the physics section of StackExchange.



In short, an element can be found in molecules; it's still an element.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 25 at 17:50

























answered Nov 25 at 5:53









DrMoishe Pippik

13.9k1130




13.9k1130







  • 1




    But why do we call O2 oxygen is my question? I thought only an atom with 8 protons can be called oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 25 at 6:10






  • 6




    Each atom does have 8 protons. A molecule of two atoms with 8 protons each is not one atom with 16 protons. BTW, it's called oxygen because the discoverer thought all acids contain it (oxy means biting, sharp or acid in Greek, ὀξύς). So there is a misnomer.
    – DrMoishe Pippik
    Nov 25 at 6:25










  • Not much of a misnomer, though, because oxygen is a good oxidiser; it completely destroys heavier alkali metals, for instance, and eats very quickly through warm hydrocarbons.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 11:28







  • 2




    @wizzwizz4 The term "oxidiser" was created later, and it's named that way because oxygen is the most common oxidiser.
    – NieDzejkob
    Nov 25 at 12:16










  • @NieDzejkob But oxidisation does bite through things.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 12:17












  • 1




    But why do we call O2 oxygen is my question? I thought only an atom with 8 protons can be called oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 25 at 6:10






  • 6




    Each atom does have 8 protons. A molecule of two atoms with 8 protons each is not one atom with 16 protons. BTW, it's called oxygen because the discoverer thought all acids contain it (oxy means biting, sharp or acid in Greek, ὀξύς). So there is a misnomer.
    – DrMoishe Pippik
    Nov 25 at 6:25










  • Not much of a misnomer, though, because oxygen is a good oxidiser; it completely destroys heavier alkali metals, for instance, and eats very quickly through warm hydrocarbons.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 11:28







  • 2




    @wizzwizz4 The term "oxidiser" was created later, and it's named that way because oxygen is the most common oxidiser.
    – NieDzejkob
    Nov 25 at 12:16










  • @NieDzejkob But oxidisation does bite through things.
    – wizzwizz4
    Nov 25 at 12:17







1




1




But why do we call O2 oxygen is my question? I thought only an atom with 8 protons can be called oxygen?
– J. Smith
Nov 25 at 6:10




But why do we call O2 oxygen is my question? I thought only an atom with 8 protons can be called oxygen?
– J. Smith
Nov 25 at 6:10




6




6




Each atom does have 8 protons. A molecule of two atoms with 8 protons each is not one atom with 16 protons. BTW, it's called oxygen because the discoverer thought all acids contain it (oxy means biting, sharp or acid in Greek, ὀξύς). So there is a misnomer.
– DrMoishe Pippik
Nov 25 at 6:25




Each atom does have 8 protons. A molecule of two atoms with 8 protons each is not one atom with 16 protons. BTW, it's called oxygen because the discoverer thought all acids contain it (oxy means biting, sharp or acid in Greek, ὀξύς). So there is a misnomer.
– DrMoishe Pippik
Nov 25 at 6:25












Not much of a misnomer, though, because oxygen is a good oxidiser; it completely destroys heavier alkali metals, for instance, and eats very quickly through warm hydrocarbons.
– wizzwizz4
Nov 25 at 11:28





Not much of a misnomer, though, because oxygen is a good oxidiser; it completely destroys heavier alkali metals, for instance, and eats very quickly through warm hydrocarbons.
– wizzwizz4
Nov 25 at 11:28





2




2




@wizzwizz4 The term "oxidiser" was created later, and it's named that way because oxygen is the most common oxidiser.
– NieDzejkob
Nov 25 at 12:16




@wizzwizz4 The term "oxidiser" was created later, and it's named that way because oxygen is the most common oxidiser.
– NieDzejkob
Nov 25 at 12:16












@NieDzejkob But oxidisation does bite through things.
– wizzwizz4
Nov 25 at 12:17




@NieDzejkob But oxidisation does bite through things.
– wizzwizz4
Nov 25 at 12:17










up vote
5
down vote













It's simply a colloquialism for ease of reference. It is sort of like the way we call a heap of corn, corn. Instead of corn off the cob, like the comedian Mitch Hedberg jokes about. He says "corn" should mean "corn on an ear of corn", and a pile of corn kernels should be called "corn off the cob", but since we encounter "corn off the cob" much more often than a big ol ear of corn, we simply call it corn.



The more common something is, the less likely it is to be accurately named, and more likely it be colloquialized.






share|improve this answer


















  • 7




    12.5% keyword density of the word 'corn' in an answer to a question about oxygen, that's got to be a world record
    – Darren H
    Nov 25 at 10:14










  • I am not sure the rest of us get these "corn" (AKA maize) references.
    – Peter Mortensen
    Nov 25 at 16:15






  • 1




    Words can mean more than one thing. There is nothing whatsoever inaccurate about referring to individual kernels of corn as "corn".
    – David Richerby
    Nov 25 at 17:23






  • 1




    @DavidRicherby Duh; after all, corn originally meant "a grass with big seeds we use to make food", and still does in Traditional English. But the point mark makes is a correct one anyway - the uses that are more common get preferential treatment, because humans like to optimize their communication. Therefore, "molecular dioxygen" is called "oxygen", while "monooxygen" is called "elemental oxygen", if the distinction even needs to be made; just like you're more likely to use "car" rather than "a horse-less horse-drawn carriage". Accurate terminology helps communication, but so does efficiency.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:07






  • 1




    @Luaan but is it a colloquialism? It's just one sense of the word oxygen. How is it a colloquialism?
    – phoog
    Nov 26 at 17:32














up vote
5
down vote













It's simply a colloquialism for ease of reference. It is sort of like the way we call a heap of corn, corn. Instead of corn off the cob, like the comedian Mitch Hedberg jokes about. He says "corn" should mean "corn on an ear of corn", and a pile of corn kernels should be called "corn off the cob", but since we encounter "corn off the cob" much more often than a big ol ear of corn, we simply call it corn.



The more common something is, the less likely it is to be accurately named, and more likely it be colloquialized.






share|improve this answer


















  • 7




    12.5% keyword density of the word 'corn' in an answer to a question about oxygen, that's got to be a world record
    – Darren H
    Nov 25 at 10:14










  • I am not sure the rest of us get these "corn" (AKA maize) references.
    – Peter Mortensen
    Nov 25 at 16:15






  • 1




    Words can mean more than one thing. There is nothing whatsoever inaccurate about referring to individual kernels of corn as "corn".
    – David Richerby
    Nov 25 at 17:23






  • 1




    @DavidRicherby Duh; after all, corn originally meant "a grass with big seeds we use to make food", and still does in Traditional English. But the point mark makes is a correct one anyway - the uses that are more common get preferential treatment, because humans like to optimize their communication. Therefore, "molecular dioxygen" is called "oxygen", while "monooxygen" is called "elemental oxygen", if the distinction even needs to be made; just like you're more likely to use "car" rather than "a horse-less horse-drawn carriage". Accurate terminology helps communication, but so does efficiency.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:07






  • 1




    @Luaan but is it a colloquialism? It's just one sense of the word oxygen. How is it a colloquialism?
    – phoog
    Nov 26 at 17:32












up vote
5
down vote










up vote
5
down vote









It's simply a colloquialism for ease of reference. It is sort of like the way we call a heap of corn, corn. Instead of corn off the cob, like the comedian Mitch Hedberg jokes about. He says "corn" should mean "corn on an ear of corn", and a pile of corn kernels should be called "corn off the cob", but since we encounter "corn off the cob" much more often than a big ol ear of corn, we simply call it corn.



The more common something is, the less likely it is to be accurately named, and more likely it be colloquialized.






share|improve this answer














It's simply a colloquialism for ease of reference. It is sort of like the way we call a heap of corn, corn. Instead of corn off the cob, like the comedian Mitch Hedberg jokes about. He says "corn" should mean "corn on an ear of corn", and a pile of corn kernels should be called "corn off the cob", but since we encounter "corn off the cob" much more often than a big ol ear of corn, we simply call it corn.



The more common something is, the less likely it is to be accurately named, and more likely it be colloquialized.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 25 at 18:53









Peter Mortensen

213110




213110










answered Nov 25 at 5:43









mark

251




251







  • 7




    12.5% keyword density of the word 'corn' in an answer to a question about oxygen, that's got to be a world record
    – Darren H
    Nov 25 at 10:14










  • I am not sure the rest of us get these "corn" (AKA maize) references.
    – Peter Mortensen
    Nov 25 at 16:15






  • 1




    Words can mean more than one thing. There is nothing whatsoever inaccurate about referring to individual kernels of corn as "corn".
    – David Richerby
    Nov 25 at 17:23






  • 1




    @DavidRicherby Duh; after all, corn originally meant "a grass with big seeds we use to make food", and still does in Traditional English. But the point mark makes is a correct one anyway - the uses that are more common get preferential treatment, because humans like to optimize their communication. Therefore, "molecular dioxygen" is called "oxygen", while "monooxygen" is called "elemental oxygen", if the distinction even needs to be made; just like you're more likely to use "car" rather than "a horse-less horse-drawn carriage". Accurate terminology helps communication, but so does efficiency.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:07






  • 1




    @Luaan but is it a colloquialism? It's just one sense of the word oxygen. How is it a colloquialism?
    – phoog
    Nov 26 at 17:32












  • 7




    12.5% keyword density of the word 'corn' in an answer to a question about oxygen, that's got to be a world record
    – Darren H
    Nov 25 at 10:14










  • I am not sure the rest of us get these "corn" (AKA maize) references.
    – Peter Mortensen
    Nov 25 at 16:15






  • 1




    Words can mean more than one thing. There is nothing whatsoever inaccurate about referring to individual kernels of corn as "corn".
    – David Richerby
    Nov 25 at 17:23






  • 1




    @DavidRicherby Duh; after all, corn originally meant "a grass with big seeds we use to make food", and still does in Traditional English. But the point mark makes is a correct one anyway - the uses that are more common get preferential treatment, because humans like to optimize their communication. Therefore, "molecular dioxygen" is called "oxygen", while "monooxygen" is called "elemental oxygen", if the distinction even needs to be made; just like you're more likely to use "car" rather than "a horse-less horse-drawn carriage". Accurate terminology helps communication, but so does efficiency.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:07






  • 1




    @Luaan but is it a colloquialism? It's just one sense of the word oxygen. How is it a colloquialism?
    – phoog
    Nov 26 at 17:32







7




7




12.5% keyword density of the word 'corn' in an answer to a question about oxygen, that's got to be a world record
– Darren H
Nov 25 at 10:14




12.5% keyword density of the word 'corn' in an answer to a question about oxygen, that's got to be a world record
– Darren H
Nov 25 at 10:14












I am not sure the rest of us get these "corn" (AKA maize) references.
– Peter Mortensen
Nov 25 at 16:15




I am not sure the rest of us get these "corn" (AKA maize) references.
– Peter Mortensen
Nov 25 at 16:15




1




1




Words can mean more than one thing. There is nothing whatsoever inaccurate about referring to individual kernels of corn as "corn".
– David Richerby
Nov 25 at 17:23




Words can mean more than one thing. There is nothing whatsoever inaccurate about referring to individual kernels of corn as "corn".
– David Richerby
Nov 25 at 17:23




1




1




@DavidRicherby Duh; after all, corn originally meant "a grass with big seeds we use to make food", and still does in Traditional English. But the point mark makes is a correct one anyway - the uses that are more common get preferential treatment, because humans like to optimize their communication. Therefore, "molecular dioxygen" is called "oxygen", while "monooxygen" is called "elemental oxygen", if the distinction even needs to be made; just like you're more likely to use "car" rather than "a horse-less horse-drawn carriage". Accurate terminology helps communication, but so does efficiency.
– Luaan
Nov 26 at 8:07




@DavidRicherby Duh; after all, corn originally meant "a grass with big seeds we use to make food", and still does in Traditional English. But the point mark makes is a correct one anyway - the uses that are more common get preferential treatment, because humans like to optimize their communication. Therefore, "molecular dioxygen" is called "oxygen", while "monooxygen" is called "elemental oxygen", if the distinction even needs to be made; just like you're more likely to use "car" rather than "a horse-less horse-drawn carriage". Accurate terminology helps communication, but so does efficiency.
– Luaan
Nov 26 at 8:07




1




1




@Luaan but is it a colloquialism? It's just one sense of the word oxygen. How is it a colloquialism?
– phoog
Nov 26 at 17:32




@Luaan but is it a colloquialism? It's just one sense of the word oxygen. How is it a colloquialism?
– phoog
Nov 26 at 17:32










up vote
4
down vote













It would be very odd to try to deny all allotropes of an element that element's name, or to require an additional description as in the phrases "molecular oxygen" or (to exclude non-modal allotropes) "diatomic oxygen". Why would it be odd? Because it may require some very specific descriptions that quickly become distracting, difficult to get right, and unimportant to the point you want to make. This is especially true if an element exists in multiple allotropes, whose chemical reactions of present interest might only care about the overall atom count present.



It's easy to get used to monatomic and diatomic forms of elements (metals usually treated as honorary examples of the former), and forget about such creatures as:




  • $ceAs4$ and multiple allotropes that don't admit as neat a formula (which will be a theme),


  • $ceB12$ and other allotropes of boron


  • $ceO3$, $ceO4$ and $ceO8$


  • $ceP2$ vs $ceP4$ and multiple polymeric forms of phosphorus


  • $ceSe8$ and its crystalline and polymeric counterparts


  • $ceS_n$ where $n$ can be any of $2$ to $9$, $15$, $18$ or $20$

  • and some elements having pretty much no natural $X_mathrmsmall,n$ allotropes such as antimony, carbon, germanium and tellurium.

What would you like to call them all?






share|improve this answer






















  • When we say that certain elements “exist as molecules” what does that mean? From my understanding, an element is a species of atoms with the same number of protons, so when we say that oxygen, a species of atoms “exists” as a molecule, what does that mean precisely?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 4:23










  • @J.Smith Well, from my understanding, an element is a collection of atoms that all have the same proton number, said atoms possibly not separate. Obviously we can define terms however we want, but given what atoms usually do it would be strange to define a lot of matter as neither an element nor a compound nor mixture.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 6:11










  • So like a physical collection of atoms? If that’s the case, then when we talk about the reactivity of sodium why do we say that “sodium has one electron in its valence shell” as to imply that sodium is a type of atom?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 6:57






  • 1




    @J.Smith Well, there are contexts where you can assume a particular form is intended. Never mind sodium or oxygen; you see the Swiss-Army knife nature of language when we discuss something as simple as hydrogen. It means very different things to stellar astronomers vs Jupiter experts vs spectroscopers vs quantum mechanists vs organic chemists vs fuel storage researchers vs those discussing acids.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 7:44







  • 2




    @J.Smith Why wouldn't we? Sodium is an atom. It's also a metallic substance composed predominantly of sodium atoms. We only need to distinguish the two when it's important to what we're talking about, and the intended meaning isn't obvious. Whenever you're discussing anything, you need to be extremely mindful of context. Valence electrons are important because they affect how chemical bonds form - it should be pretty obvious why you want to discuss them when you're considering how sodium reacts with itself and other elements.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:12














up vote
4
down vote













It would be very odd to try to deny all allotropes of an element that element's name, or to require an additional description as in the phrases "molecular oxygen" or (to exclude non-modal allotropes) "diatomic oxygen". Why would it be odd? Because it may require some very specific descriptions that quickly become distracting, difficult to get right, and unimportant to the point you want to make. This is especially true if an element exists in multiple allotropes, whose chemical reactions of present interest might only care about the overall atom count present.



It's easy to get used to monatomic and diatomic forms of elements (metals usually treated as honorary examples of the former), and forget about such creatures as:




  • $ceAs4$ and multiple allotropes that don't admit as neat a formula (which will be a theme),


  • $ceB12$ and other allotropes of boron


  • $ceO3$, $ceO4$ and $ceO8$


  • $ceP2$ vs $ceP4$ and multiple polymeric forms of phosphorus


  • $ceSe8$ and its crystalline and polymeric counterparts


  • $ceS_n$ where $n$ can be any of $2$ to $9$, $15$, $18$ or $20$

  • and some elements having pretty much no natural $X_mathrmsmall,n$ allotropes such as antimony, carbon, germanium and tellurium.

What would you like to call them all?






share|improve this answer






















  • When we say that certain elements “exist as molecules” what does that mean? From my understanding, an element is a species of atoms with the same number of protons, so when we say that oxygen, a species of atoms “exists” as a molecule, what does that mean precisely?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 4:23










  • @J.Smith Well, from my understanding, an element is a collection of atoms that all have the same proton number, said atoms possibly not separate. Obviously we can define terms however we want, but given what atoms usually do it would be strange to define a lot of matter as neither an element nor a compound nor mixture.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 6:11










  • So like a physical collection of atoms? If that’s the case, then when we talk about the reactivity of sodium why do we say that “sodium has one electron in its valence shell” as to imply that sodium is a type of atom?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 6:57






  • 1




    @J.Smith Well, there are contexts where you can assume a particular form is intended. Never mind sodium or oxygen; you see the Swiss-Army knife nature of language when we discuss something as simple as hydrogen. It means very different things to stellar astronomers vs Jupiter experts vs spectroscopers vs quantum mechanists vs organic chemists vs fuel storage researchers vs those discussing acids.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 7:44







  • 2




    @J.Smith Why wouldn't we? Sodium is an atom. It's also a metallic substance composed predominantly of sodium atoms. We only need to distinguish the two when it's important to what we're talking about, and the intended meaning isn't obvious. Whenever you're discussing anything, you need to be extremely mindful of context. Valence electrons are important because they affect how chemical bonds form - it should be pretty obvious why you want to discuss them when you're considering how sodium reacts with itself and other elements.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:12












up vote
4
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up vote
4
down vote









It would be very odd to try to deny all allotropes of an element that element's name, or to require an additional description as in the phrases "molecular oxygen" or (to exclude non-modal allotropes) "diatomic oxygen". Why would it be odd? Because it may require some very specific descriptions that quickly become distracting, difficult to get right, and unimportant to the point you want to make. This is especially true if an element exists in multiple allotropes, whose chemical reactions of present interest might only care about the overall atom count present.



It's easy to get used to monatomic and diatomic forms of elements (metals usually treated as honorary examples of the former), and forget about such creatures as:




  • $ceAs4$ and multiple allotropes that don't admit as neat a formula (which will be a theme),


  • $ceB12$ and other allotropes of boron


  • $ceO3$, $ceO4$ and $ceO8$


  • $ceP2$ vs $ceP4$ and multiple polymeric forms of phosphorus


  • $ceSe8$ and its crystalline and polymeric counterparts


  • $ceS_n$ where $n$ can be any of $2$ to $9$, $15$, $18$ or $20$

  • and some elements having pretty much no natural $X_mathrmsmall,n$ allotropes such as antimony, carbon, germanium and tellurium.

What would you like to call them all?






share|improve this answer














It would be very odd to try to deny all allotropes of an element that element's name, or to require an additional description as in the phrases "molecular oxygen" or (to exclude non-modal allotropes) "diatomic oxygen". Why would it be odd? Because it may require some very specific descriptions that quickly become distracting, difficult to get right, and unimportant to the point you want to make. This is especially true if an element exists in multiple allotropes, whose chemical reactions of present interest might only care about the overall atom count present.



It's easy to get used to monatomic and diatomic forms of elements (metals usually treated as honorary examples of the former), and forget about such creatures as:




  • $ceAs4$ and multiple allotropes that don't admit as neat a formula (which will be a theme),


  • $ceB12$ and other allotropes of boron


  • $ceO3$, $ceO4$ and $ceO8$


  • $ceP2$ vs $ceP4$ and multiple polymeric forms of phosphorus


  • $ceSe8$ and its crystalline and polymeric counterparts


  • $ceS_n$ where $n$ can be any of $2$ to $9$, $15$, $18$ or $20$

  • and some elements having pretty much no natural $X_mathrmsmall,n$ allotropes such as antimony, carbon, germanium and tellurium.

What would you like to call them all?







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 27 at 4:05









A.K.

8,31441861




8,31441861










answered Nov 25 at 20:27









J.G.

1443




1443











  • When we say that certain elements “exist as molecules” what does that mean? From my understanding, an element is a species of atoms with the same number of protons, so when we say that oxygen, a species of atoms “exists” as a molecule, what does that mean precisely?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 4:23










  • @J.Smith Well, from my understanding, an element is a collection of atoms that all have the same proton number, said atoms possibly not separate. Obviously we can define terms however we want, but given what atoms usually do it would be strange to define a lot of matter as neither an element nor a compound nor mixture.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 6:11










  • So like a physical collection of atoms? If that’s the case, then when we talk about the reactivity of sodium why do we say that “sodium has one electron in its valence shell” as to imply that sodium is a type of atom?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 6:57






  • 1




    @J.Smith Well, there are contexts where you can assume a particular form is intended. Never mind sodium or oxygen; you see the Swiss-Army knife nature of language when we discuss something as simple as hydrogen. It means very different things to stellar astronomers vs Jupiter experts vs spectroscopers vs quantum mechanists vs organic chemists vs fuel storage researchers vs those discussing acids.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 7:44







  • 2




    @J.Smith Why wouldn't we? Sodium is an atom. It's also a metallic substance composed predominantly of sodium atoms. We only need to distinguish the two when it's important to what we're talking about, and the intended meaning isn't obvious. Whenever you're discussing anything, you need to be extremely mindful of context. Valence electrons are important because they affect how chemical bonds form - it should be pretty obvious why you want to discuss them when you're considering how sodium reacts with itself and other elements.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:12
















  • When we say that certain elements “exist as molecules” what does that mean? From my understanding, an element is a species of atoms with the same number of protons, so when we say that oxygen, a species of atoms “exists” as a molecule, what does that mean precisely?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 4:23










  • @J.Smith Well, from my understanding, an element is a collection of atoms that all have the same proton number, said atoms possibly not separate. Obviously we can define terms however we want, but given what atoms usually do it would be strange to define a lot of matter as neither an element nor a compound nor mixture.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 6:11










  • So like a physical collection of atoms? If that’s the case, then when we talk about the reactivity of sodium why do we say that “sodium has one electron in its valence shell” as to imply that sodium is a type of atom?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 26 at 6:57






  • 1




    @J.Smith Well, there are contexts where you can assume a particular form is intended. Never mind sodium or oxygen; you see the Swiss-Army knife nature of language when we discuss something as simple as hydrogen. It means very different things to stellar astronomers vs Jupiter experts vs spectroscopers vs quantum mechanists vs organic chemists vs fuel storage researchers vs those discussing acids.
    – J.G.
    Nov 26 at 7:44







  • 2




    @J.Smith Why wouldn't we? Sodium is an atom. It's also a metallic substance composed predominantly of sodium atoms. We only need to distinguish the two when it's important to what we're talking about, and the intended meaning isn't obvious. Whenever you're discussing anything, you need to be extremely mindful of context. Valence electrons are important because they affect how chemical bonds form - it should be pretty obvious why you want to discuss them when you're considering how sodium reacts with itself and other elements.
    – Luaan
    Nov 26 at 8:12















When we say that certain elements “exist as molecules” what does that mean? From my understanding, an element is a species of atoms with the same number of protons, so when we say that oxygen, a species of atoms “exists” as a molecule, what does that mean precisely?
– J. Smith
Nov 26 at 4:23




When we say that certain elements “exist as molecules” what does that mean? From my understanding, an element is a species of atoms with the same number of protons, so when we say that oxygen, a species of atoms “exists” as a molecule, what does that mean precisely?
– J. Smith
Nov 26 at 4:23












@J.Smith Well, from my understanding, an element is a collection of atoms that all have the same proton number, said atoms possibly not separate. Obviously we can define terms however we want, but given what atoms usually do it would be strange to define a lot of matter as neither an element nor a compound nor mixture.
– J.G.
Nov 26 at 6:11




@J.Smith Well, from my understanding, an element is a collection of atoms that all have the same proton number, said atoms possibly not separate. Obviously we can define terms however we want, but given what atoms usually do it would be strange to define a lot of matter as neither an element nor a compound nor mixture.
– J.G.
Nov 26 at 6:11












So like a physical collection of atoms? If that’s the case, then when we talk about the reactivity of sodium why do we say that “sodium has one electron in its valence shell” as to imply that sodium is a type of atom?
– J. Smith
Nov 26 at 6:57




So like a physical collection of atoms? If that’s the case, then when we talk about the reactivity of sodium why do we say that “sodium has one electron in its valence shell” as to imply that sodium is a type of atom?
– J. Smith
Nov 26 at 6:57




1




1




@J.Smith Well, there are contexts where you can assume a particular form is intended. Never mind sodium or oxygen; you see the Swiss-Army knife nature of language when we discuss something as simple as hydrogen. It means very different things to stellar astronomers vs Jupiter experts vs spectroscopers vs quantum mechanists vs organic chemists vs fuel storage researchers vs those discussing acids.
– J.G.
Nov 26 at 7:44





@J.Smith Well, there are contexts where you can assume a particular form is intended. Never mind sodium or oxygen; you see the Swiss-Army knife nature of language when we discuss something as simple as hydrogen. It means very different things to stellar astronomers vs Jupiter experts vs spectroscopers vs quantum mechanists vs organic chemists vs fuel storage researchers vs those discussing acids.
– J.G.
Nov 26 at 7:44





2




2




@J.Smith Why wouldn't we? Sodium is an atom. It's also a metallic substance composed predominantly of sodium atoms. We only need to distinguish the two when it's important to what we're talking about, and the intended meaning isn't obvious. Whenever you're discussing anything, you need to be extremely mindful of context. Valence electrons are important because they affect how chemical bonds form - it should be pretty obvious why you want to discuss them when you're considering how sodium reacts with itself and other elements.
– Luaan
Nov 26 at 8:12




@J.Smith Why wouldn't we? Sodium is an atom. It's also a metallic substance composed predominantly of sodium atoms. We only need to distinguish the two when it's important to what we're talking about, and the intended meaning isn't obvious. Whenever you're discussing anything, you need to be extremely mindful of context. Valence electrons are important because they affect how chemical bonds form - it should be pretty obvious why you want to discuss them when you're considering how sodium reacts with itself and other elements.
– Luaan
Nov 26 at 8:12










up vote
1
down vote













"Oxygen" is a set which has "atomic oxygen" and "molecular oxygen" as elements(of a set).
It's like asking why is a "Ford automobile" and a "Chevy automobile", each called an "automobile". So, calling "atomic oxygen", "oxygen" is not inconsistent. Neither is calling "molecular oxygen" oxygen inconsistent.
We can add ozone to this as we can say, "ozone is the triatomic form of oxygen".
There are no inconsistencies here.
Your question is not of science but of grammar. The singular and plural forms of the chemical elements are the same. We don't say, "oxygens", or "aluminums" unless we are talking about a property as "oxygens melting point is...". This question doesn't really belong here, but belongs in the category of English grammar.






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  • But I have been taught that “elements” are species of atoms. If oxygen is a species of atoms with 8 protons then how can we call O2 oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 4:08














up vote
1
down vote













"Oxygen" is a set which has "atomic oxygen" and "molecular oxygen" as elements(of a set).
It's like asking why is a "Ford automobile" and a "Chevy automobile", each called an "automobile". So, calling "atomic oxygen", "oxygen" is not inconsistent. Neither is calling "molecular oxygen" oxygen inconsistent.
We can add ozone to this as we can say, "ozone is the triatomic form of oxygen".
There are no inconsistencies here.
Your question is not of science but of grammar. The singular and plural forms of the chemical elements are the same. We don't say, "oxygens", or "aluminums" unless we are talking about a property as "oxygens melting point is...". This question doesn't really belong here, but belongs in the category of English grammar.






share|improve this answer






















  • But I have been taught that “elements” are species of atoms. If oxygen is a species of atoms with 8 protons then how can we call O2 oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 4:08












up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









"Oxygen" is a set which has "atomic oxygen" and "molecular oxygen" as elements(of a set).
It's like asking why is a "Ford automobile" and a "Chevy automobile", each called an "automobile". So, calling "atomic oxygen", "oxygen" is not inconsistent. Neither is calling "molecular oxygen" oxygen inconsistent.
We can add ozone to this as we can say, "ozone is the triatomic form of oxygen".
There are no inconsistencies here.
Your question is not of science but of grammar. The singular and plural forms of the chemical elements are the same. We don't say, "oxygens", or "aluminums" unless we are talking about a property as "oxygens melting point is...". This question doesn't really belong here, but belongs in the category of English grammar.






share|improve this answer














"Oxygen" is a set which has "atomic oxygen" and "molecular oxygen" as elements(of a set).
It's like asking why is a "Ford automobile" and a "Chevy automobile", each called an "automobile". So, calling "atomic oxygen", "oxygen" is not inconsistent. Neither is calling "molecular oxygen" oxygen inconsistent.
We can add ozone to this as we can say, "ozone is the triatomic form of oxygen".
There are no inconsistencies here.
Your question is not of science but of grammar. The singular and plural forms of the chemical elements are the same. We don't say, "oxygens", or "aluminums" unless we are talking about a property as "oxygens melting point is...". This question doesn't really belong here, but belongs in the category of English grammar.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 28 at 10:51

























answered Nov 26 at 21:48









Scot Parker

892




892











  • But I have been taught that “elements” are species of atoms. If oxygen is a species of atoms with 8 protons then how can we call O2 oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 4:08
















  • But I have been taught that “elements” are species of atoms. If oxygen is a species of atoms with 8 protons then how can we call O2 oxygen?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 4:08















But I have been taught that “elements” are species of atoms. If oxygen is a species of atoms with 8 protons then how can we call O2 oxygen?
– J. Smith
Nov 27 at 4:08




But I have been taught that “elements” are species of atoms. If oxygen is a species of atoms with 8 protons then how can we call O2 oxygen?
– J. Smith
Nov 27 at 4:08










up vote
0
down vote













Diamond and graphite are both arrangements of carbon atoms, each with very different properties and yet they are both pure carbon, as is a single carbon atom, of course. Likewise $ceO2$ is as much oxygen as atomic oxygen is. The only complication is that what we habitually think of as oxygen is oxygen as a gas comprised of $ceO2$ molecules. Like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland, "a word means what [we] choose it to mean" and often we have to add modifiers or alternate terms to avoid ambiguity. Such is language...






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New contributor




J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

















  • If O2 is a type of molecule, can we refer to a collection of O2 molecules simply as O2? Because it doesn’t matter how much we have, it is still O2 right?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 12:37














up vote
0
down vote













Diamond and graphite are both arrangements of carbon atoms, each with very different properties and yet they are both pure carbon, as is a single carbon atom, of course. Likewise $ceO2$ is as much oxygen as atomic oxygen is. The only complication is that what we habitually think of as oxygen is oxygen as a gas comprised of $ceO2$ molecules. Like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland, "a word means what [we] choose it to mean" and often we have to add modifiers or alternate terms to avoid ambiguity. Such is language...






share|improve this answer










New contributor




J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.

















  • If O2 is a type of molecule, can we refer to a collection of O2 molecules simply as O2? Because it doesn’t matter how much we have, it is still O2 right?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 12:37












up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









Diamond and graphite are both arrangements of carbon atoms, each with very different properties and yet they are both pure carbon, as is a single carbon atom, of course. Likewise $ceO2$ is as much oxygen as atomic oxygen is. The only complication is that what we habitually think of as oxygen is oxygen as a gas comprised of $ceO2$ molecules. Like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland, "a word means what [we] choose it to mean" and often we have to add modifiers or alternate terms to avoid ambiguity. Such is language...






share|improve this answer










New contributor




J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









Diamond and graphite are both arrangements of carbon atoms, each with very different properties and yet they are both pure carbon, as is a single carbon atom, of course. Likewise $ceO2$ is as much oxygen as atomic oxygen is. The only complication is that what we habitually think of as oxygen is oxygen as a gas comprised of $ceO2$ molecules. Like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland, "a word means what [we] choose it to mean" and often we have to add modifiers or alternate terms to avoid ambiguity. Such is language...







share|improve this answer










New contributor




J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Nov 27 at 15:34









Glorfindel

1,4132819




1,4132819






New contributor




J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered Nov 27 at 10:31









J. Sergeant

1




1




New contributor




J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






J. Sergeant is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • If O2 is a type of molecule, can we refer to a collection of O2 molecules simply as O2? Because it doesn’t matter how much we have, it is still O2 right?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 12:37
















  • If O2 is a type of molecule, can we refer to a collection of O2 molecules simply as O2? Because it doesn’t matter how much we have, it is still O2 right?
    – J. Smith
    Nov 27 at 12:37















If O2 is a type of molecule, can we refer to a collection of O2 molecules simply as O2? Because it doesn’t matter how much we have, it is still O2 right?
– J. Smith
Nov 27 at 12:37




If O2 is a type of molecule, can we refer to a collection of O2 molecules simply as O2? Because it doesn’t matter how much we have, it is still O2 right?
– J. Smith
Nov 27 at 12:37


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