How to prove that the limit of this sequence is $400/pi$

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I am new to this forum, so I hope I am proceeding in the correct way. Please excuse any mistakes.



I am trying to prove that the limiting factor of a 2D shape's surface area is a circle, and I have managed to find an equation for this from a regular polygon. In my question, I assume that the maximum perimeter/circumference one can form is 40cm (i.e. if someone has 40cm of string). So:



For a perimeter of 40:
$$
lim_n rightarrow inftyfrac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)=frac400π
$$



I got this value using Wolfram Alpha, which confirmed that the limiting factor for surface area is a circle, since the surface area of a circle with a circumference of 40cm = 400/π.



However, I am unable to prove this formula algebraically. I tried using l'hospital's rule after realising that the limit of the original function was 0/0, but I got nowhere. In fact, the result I got was -400π/0, which was very disappointing after so much working out!



I was wondering if anyone could help me prove this algebraically or otherwise. I am happy that I found an equation that proves what I wanted to, but I am unable to prove Wolfram Alpha's result, which is frustrating.



Again, I am new to this forum, so please let me know if I have made any mistakes so that I can edit my question.










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  • l'hopital's rule will work here - are you sure you don't have a mistake in applying the chain rule to the d/dn(sin(1/n)) parts of your expression?
    – jacob1729
    Oct 3 at 22:13










  • Maybe - I will try again later and let you know. It's a very frustrating process though, but I'm glad it should work!
    – Natumakie
    Oct 3 at 22:16










  • Side note: I don't think this site is a forum. The stack exchange tour makes it clear the site is about getting answers and not irrelevant discussion
    – qwr
    Oct 4 at 7:05














up vote
4
down vote

favorite












I am new to this forum, so I hope I am proceeding in the correct way. Please excuse any mistakes.



I am trying to prove that the limiting factor of a 2D shape's surface area is a circle, and I have managed to find an equation for this from a regular polygon. In my question, I assume that the maximum perimeter/circumference one can form is 40cm (i.e. if someone has 40cm of string). So:



For a perimeter of 40:
$$
lim_n rightarrow inftyfrac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)=frac400π
$$



I got this value using Wolfram Alpha, which confirmed that the limiting factor for surface area is a circle, since the surface area of a circle with a circumference of 40cm = 400/π.



However, I am unable to prove this formula algebraically. I tried using l'hospital's rule after realising that the limit of the original function was 0/0, but I got nowhere. In fact, the result I got was -400π/0, which was very disappointing after so much working out!



I was wondering if anyone could help me prove this algebraically or otherwise. I am happy that I found an equation that proves what I wanted to, but I am unable to prove Wolfram Alpha's result, which is frustrating.



Again, I am new to this forum, so please let me know if I have made any mistakes so that I can edit my question.










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




Natumakie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • l'hopital's rule will work here - are you sure you don't have a mistake in applying the chain rule to the d/dn(sin(1/n)) parts of your expression?
    – jacob1729
    Oct 3 at 22:13










  • Maybe - I will try again later and let you know. It's a very frustrating process though, but I'm glad it should work!
    – Natumakie
    Oct 3 at 22:16










  • Side note: I don't think this site is a forum. The stack exchange tour makes it clear the site is about getting answers and not irrelevant discussion
    – qwr
    Oct 4 at 7:05












up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











I am new to this forum, so I hope I am proceeding in the correct way. Please excuse any mistakes.



I am trying to prove that the limiting factor of a 2D shape's surface area is a circle, and I have managed to find an equation for this from a regular polygon. In my question, I assume that the maximum perimeter/circumference one can form is 40cm (i.e. if someone has 40cm of string). So:



For a perimeter of 40:
$$
lim_n rightarrow inftyfrac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)=frac400π
$$



I got this value using Wolfram Alpha, which confirmed that the limiting factor for surface area is a circle, since the surface area of a circle with a circumference of 40cm = 400/π.



However, I am unable to prove this formula algebraically. I tried using l'hospital's rule after realising that the limit of the original function was 0/0, but I got nowhere. In fact, the result I got was -400π/0, which was very disappointing after so much working out!



I was wondering if anyone could help me prove this algebraically or otherwise. I am happy that I found an equation that proves what I wanted to, but I am unable to prove Wolfram Alpha's result, which is frustrating.



Again, I am new to this forum, so please let me know if I have made any mistakes so that I can edit my question.










share|cite|improve this question









New contributor




Natumakie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I am new to this forum, so I hope I am proceeding in the correct way. Please excuse any mistakes.



I am trying to prove that the limiting factor of a 2D shape's surface area is a circle, and I have managed to find an equation for this from a regular polygon. In my question, I assume that the maximum perimeter/circumference one can form is 40cm (i.e. if someone has 40cm of string). So:



For a perimeter of 40:
$$
lim_n rightarrow inftyfrac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)=frac400π
$$



I got this value using Wolfram Alpha, which confirmed that the limiting factor for surface area is a circle, since the surface area of a circle with a circumference of 40cm = 400/π.



However, I am unable to prove this formula algebraically. I tried using l'hospital's rule after realising that the limit of the original function was 0/0, but I got nowhere. In fact, the result I got was -400π/0, which was very disappointing after so much working out!



I was wondering if anyone could help me prove this algebraically or otherwise. I am happy that I found an equation that proves what I wanted to, but I am unable to prove Wolfram Alpha's result, which is frustrating.



Again, I am new to this forum, so please let me know if I have made any mistakes so that I can edit my question.







calculus limits limits-without-lhopital






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edited Oct 4 at 6:57









Federico Poloni

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asked Oct 3 at 22:10









Natumakie

233




233




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New contributor





Natumakie is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • l'hopital's rule will work here - are you sure you don't have a mistake in applying the chain rule to the d/dn(sin(1/n)) parts of your expression?
    – jacob1729
    Oct 3 at 22:13










  • Maybe - I will try again later and let you know. It's a very frustrating process though, but I'm glad it should work!
    – Natumakie
    Oct 3 at 22:16










  • Side note: I don't think this site is a forum. The stack exchange tour makes it clear the site is about getting answers and not irrelevant discussion
    – qwr
    Oct 4 at 7:05
















  • l'hopital's rule will work here - are you sure you don't have a mistake in applying the chain rule to the d/dn(sin(1/n)) parts of your expression?
    – jacob1729
    Oct 3 at 22:13










  • Maybe - I will try again later and let you know. It's a very frustrating process though, but I'm glad it should work!
    – Natumakie
    Oct 3 at 22:16










  • Side note: I don't think this site is a forum. The stack exchange tour makes it clear the site is about getting answers and not irrelevant discussion
    – qwr
    Oct 4 at 7:05















l'hopital's rule will work here - are you sure you don't have a mistake in applying the chain rule to the d/dn(sin(1/n)) parts of your expression?
– jacob1729
Oct 3 at 22:13




l'hopital's rule will work here - are you sure you don't have a mistake in applying the chain rule to the d/dn(sin(1/n)) parts of your expression?
– jacob1729
Oct 3 at 22:13












Maybe - I will try again later and let you know. It's a very frustrating process though, but I'm glad it should work!
– Natumakie
Oct 3 at 22:16




Maybe - I will try again later and let you know. It's a very frustrating process though, but I'm glad it should work!
– Natumakie
Oct 3 at 22:16












Side note: I don't think this site is a forum. The stack exchange tour makes it clear the site is about getting answers and not irrelevant discussion
– qwr
Oct 4 at 7:05




Side note: I don't think this site is a forum. The stack exchange tour makes it clear the site is about getting answers and not irrelevant discussion
– qwr
Oct 4 at 7:05










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
9
down vote



accepted










Let $x = frac pin$



Now we have the more familiar looking:



$lim_limitsxto 0 frac 200sin 2x(frac pi x) sin^2 x\
lim_limitsxto 0 left(frac 200pi right)left(frac sin 2xsin xright)left(frac xsin xright)$






share|cite|improve this answer




















  • Imo, the accepted answer isn't clear enough, while this one is. Maybe one more line can be added: sin(2x)/sin(x) = 2sin(x)cos(x)/sin(x) = 2cos(x)
    – iamanigeeit
    Oct 4 at 3:54

















up vote
6
down vote













It's simple if you use equivalents:



Near $0$, $sin xsim x$, so
$$frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)sim_ntoinftyfrac200 dfrac2πnn Bigl(dfracπnBigr)^2=fraccfrac400notpinot ncfracpi^not2not n=frac400pi.$$






share|cite|improve this answer



























    up vote
    3
    down vote













    Hint:
    $$
    frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn) =
    200 ;fracsin(frac2πn)frac2πn
    left( fracfracπnsin(fracπn) right)^2
    fracfrac2πnnleft(fracπnright)^2
    $$

    What can you say about $fracsin(x_n)x_n$ when $x_n xrightarrowntoinfty 0$?






    share|cite|improve this answer




















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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes








      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      9
      down vote



      accepted










      Let $x = frac pin$



      Now we have the more familiar looking:



      $lim_limitsxto 0 frac 200sin 2x(frac pi x) sin^2 x\
      lim_limitsxto 0 left(frac 200pi right)left(frac sin 2xsin xright)left(frac xsin xright)$






      share|cite|improve this answer




















      • Imo, the accepted answer isn't clear enough, while this one is. Maybe one more line can be added: sin(2x)/sin(x) = 2sin(x)cos(x)/sin(x) = 2cos(x)
        – iamanigeeit
        Oct 4 at 3:54














      up vote
      9
      down vote



      accepted










      Let $x = frac pin$



      Now we have the more familiar looking:



      $lim_limitsxto 0 frac 200sin 2x(frac pi x) sin^2 x\
      lim_limitsxto 0 left(frac 200pi right)left(frac sin 2xsin xright)left(frac xsin xright)$






      share|cite|improve this answer




















      • Imo, the accepted answer isn't clear enough, while this one is. Maybe one more line can be added: sin(2x)/sin(x) = 2sin(x)cos(x)/sin(x) = 2cos(x)
        – iamanigeeit
        Oct 4 at 3:54












      up vote
      9
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      9
      down vote



      accepted






      Let $x = frac pin$



      Now we have the more familiar looking:



      $lim_limitsxto 0 frac 200sin 2x(frac pi x) sin^2 x\
      lim_limitsxto 0 left(frac 200pi right)left(frac sin 2xsin xright)left(frac xsin xright)$






      share|cite|improve this answer












      Let $x = frac pin$



      Now we have the more familiar looking:



      $lim_limitsxto 0 frac 200sin 2x(frac pi x) sin^2 x\
      lim_limitsxto 0 left(frac 200pi right)left(frac sin 2xsin xright)left(frac xsin xright)$







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Oct 3 at 22:17









      Doug M

      40.6k31751




      40.6k31751











      • Imo, the accepted answer isn't clear enough, while this one is. Maybe one more line can be added: sin(2x)/sin(x) = 2sin(x)cos(x)/sin(x) = 2cos(x)
        – iamanigeeit
        Oct 4 at 3:54
















      • Imo, the accepted answer isn't clear enough, while this one is. Maybe one more line can be added: sin(2x)/sin(x) = 2sin(x)cos(x)/sin(x) = 2cos(x)
        – iamanigeeit
        Oct 4 at 3:54















      Imo, the accepted answer isn't clear enough, while this one is. Maybe one more line can be added: sin(2x)/sin(x) = 2sin(x)cos(x)/sin(x) = 2cos(x)
      – iamanigeeit
      Oct 4 at 3:54




      Imo, the accepted answer isn't clear enough, while this one is. Maybe one more line can be added: sin(2x)/sin(x) = 2sin(x)cos(x)/sin(x) = 2cos(x)
      – iamanigeeit
      Oct 4 at 3:54










      up vote
      6
      down vote













      It's simple if you use equivalents:



      Near $0$, $sin xsim x$, so
      $$frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)sim_ntoinftyfrac200 dfrac2πnn Bigl(dfracπnBigr)^2=fraccfrac400notpinot ncfracpi^not2not n=frac400pi.$$






      share|cite|improve this answer
























        up vote
        6
        down vote













        It's simple if you use equivalents:



        Near $0$, $sin xsim x$, so
        $$frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)sim_ntoinftyfrac200 dfrac2πnn Bigl(dfracπnBigr)^2=fraccfrac400notpinot ncfracpi^not2not n=frac400pi.$$






        share|cite|improve this answer






















          up vote
          6
          down vote










          up vote
          6
          down vote









          It's simple if you use equivalents:



          Near $0$, $sin xsim x$, so
          $$frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)sim_ntoinftyfrac200 dfrac2πnn Bigl(dfracπnBigr)^2=fraccfrac400notpinot ncfracpi^not2not n=frac400pi.$$






          share|cite|improve this answer












          It's simple if you use equivalents:



          Near $0$, $sin xsim x$, so
          $$frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn)sim_ntoinftyfrac200 dfrac2πnn Bigl(dfracπnBigr)^2=fraccfrac400notpinot ncfracpi^not2not n=frac400pi.$$







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Oct 3 at 22:19









          Bernard

          113k636104




          113k636104




















              up vote
              3
              down vote













              Hint:
              $$
              frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn) =
              200 ;fracsin(frac2πn)frac2πn
              left( fracfracπnsin(fracπn) right)^2
              fracfrac2πnnleft(fracπnright)^2
              $$

              What can you say about $fracsin(x_n)x_n$ when $x_n xrightarrowntoinfty 0$?






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                3
                down vote













                Hint:
                $$
                frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn) =
                200 ;fracsin(frac2πn)frac2πn
                left( fracfracπnsin(fracπn) right)^2
                fracfrac2πnnleft(fracπnright)^2
                $$

                What can you say about $fracsin(x_n)x_n$ when $x_n xrightarrowntoinfty 0$?






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  3
                  down vote









                  Hint:
                  $$
                  frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn) =
                  200 ;fracsin(frac2πn)frac2πn
                  left( fracfracπnsin(fracπn) right)^2
                  fracfrac2πnnleft(fracπnright)^2
                  $$

                  What can you say about $fracsin(x_n)x_n$ when $x_n xrightarrowntoinfty 0$?






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  Hint:
                  $$
                  frac200sin(frac2πn)nsin^2(fracπn) =
                  200 ;fracsin(frac2πn)frac2πn
                  left( fracfracπnsin(fracπn) right)^2
                  fracfrac2πnnleft(fracπnright)^2
                  $$

                  What can you say about $fracsin(x_n)x_n$ when $x_n xrightarrowntoinfty 0$?







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Oct 3 at 22:19









                  mwt

                  913116




                  913116




















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