Death Ward with Polymorph

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A sorcerer in our group is quite fond of using polymorph to change herself into a giant ape (MM page323). At one point in our game last night she managed to grapple a Bheur (Winter Hag), that was riding a Nightmare (flying evil Pegasus). And during the fight the mount was killed sending them all into a 1200ft nose dive which did 120d6, (311dmg) to her polymorphed Ape form, which was it turned out exactly 3 points from killing her instantly with the massive damage rule (PHB page197).



An argument about the damage rule ensued, which I felt was squared away with simple math, but it then lead directly to another argument over the fact that she got to remain in her Giant Ape form because she still had the spell Death Ward active on her sheet. This might have just been simple confusion over how much time had passed after their long rest, as in her case she had Death Ward active for 16 total hrs, not 8, because of the divine sorcerer's "Extended Spell" metamagic (PHB page102).



The argument then CONTINUED to the entire table's near complete exasperation, as it became a debate over whether, or not, she should be reverted back to her original Sorceress form because she hit 0hp (which triggered the ward), or if she never actually hit 0hp because ward keeps you at 1hp.... Ugh



I made a ruling at the table that yes, she's going to continue on as a giant ape at 1hp despite taking over three hundred damage, regardless of how "ridiculous" the other players found it to be because those are the rules and also: "Because: MAGIC". But the RAW question that's now eating at me is: Does the spell Death Ward keep you at 1hp after you technically hit 0hp, or do you just never go below 1hp?










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  • 22




    Falling damage caps at 20d6. Also not on topic, but still relevant: Hits taken while you polymorphed yourself can break your concentration on the polymorph spell
    – Inferno IV
    Sep 19 at 14:08











  • @InfernoIV ha! I don't think any of us knew that falling dmg had a cap. Thanks for the info
    – AshRandom
    Sep 19 at 16:42







  • 5




    That "Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the damage you take requires Concentration checks" always gets me, too, but it's quite necessary; otherwise Polymorph becomes pretty OP.
    – Xanthir
    Sep 19 at 17:00
















up vote
21
down vote

favorite












A sorcerer in our group is quite fond of using polymorph to change herself into a giant ape (MM page323). At one point in our game last night she managed to grapple a Bheur (Winter Hag), that was riding a Nightmare (flying evil Pegasus). And during the fight the mount was killed sending them all into a 1200ft nose dive which did 120d6, (311dmg) to her polymorphed Ape form, which was it turned out exactly 3 points from killing her instantly with the massive damage rule (PHB page197).



An argument about the damage rule ensued, which I felt was squared away with simple math, but it then lead directly to another argument over the fact that she got to remain in her Giant Ape form because she still had the spell Death Ward active on her sheet. This might have just been simple confusion over how much time had passed after their long rest, as in her case she had Death Ward active for 16 total hrs, not 8, because of the divine sorcerer's "Extended Spell" metamagic (PHB page102).



The argument then CONTINUED to the entire table's near complete exasperation, as it became a debate over whether, or not, she should be reverted back to her original Sorceress form because she hit 0hp (which triggered the ward), or if she never actually hit 0hp because ward keeps you at 1hp.... Ugh



I made a ruling at the table that yes, she's going to continue on as a giant ape at 1hp despite taking over three hundred damage, regardless of how "ridiculous" the other players found it to be because those are the rules and also: "Because: MAGIC". But the RAW question that's now eating at me is: Does the spell Death Ward keep you at 1hp after you technically hit 0hp, or do you just never go below 1hp?










share|improve this question



















  • 22




    Falling damage caps at 20d6. Also not on topic, but still relevant: Hits taken while you polymorphed yourself can break your concentration on the polymorph spell
    – Inferno IV
    Sep 19 at 14:08











  • @InfernoIV ha! I don't think any of us knew that falling dmg had a cap. Thanks for the info
    – AshRandom
    Sep 19 at 16:42







  • 5




    That "Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the damage you take requires Concentration checks" always gets me, too, but it's quite necessary; otherwise Polymorph becomes pretty OP.
    – Xanthir
    Sep 19 at 17:00












up vote
21
down vote

favorite









up vote
21
down vote

favorite











A sorcerer in our group is quite fond of using polymorph to change herself into a giant ape (MM page323). At one point in our game last night she managed to grapple a Bheur (Winter Hag), that was riding a Nightmare (flying evil Pegasus). And during the fight the mount was killed sending them all into a 1200ft nose dive which did 120d6, (311dmg) to her polymorphed Ape form, which was it turned out exactly 3 points from killing her instantly with the massive damage rule (PHB page197).



An argument about the damage rule ensued, which I felt was squared away with simple math, but it then lead directly to another argument over the fact that she got to remain in her Giant Ape form because she still had the spell Death Ward active on her sheet. This might have just been simple confusion over how much time had passed after their long rest, as in her case she had Death Ward active for 16 total hrs, not 8, because of the divine sorcerer's "Extended Spell" metamagic (PHB page102).



The argument then CONTINUED to the entire table's near complete exasperation, as it became a debate over whether, or not, she should be reverted back to her original Sorceress form because she hit 0hp (which triggered the ward), or if she never actually hit 0hp because ward keeps you at 1hp.... Ugh



I made a ruling at the table that yes, she's going to continue on as a giant ape at 1hp despite taking over three hundred damage, regardless of how "ridiculous" the other players found it to be because those are the rules and also: "Because: MAGIC". But the RAW question that's now eating at me is: Does the spell Death Ward keep you at 1hp after you technically hit 0hp, or do you just never go below 1hp?










share|improve this question















A sorcerer in our group is quite fond of using polymorph to change herself into a giant ape (MM page323). At one point in our game last night she managed to grapple a Bheur (Winter Hag), that was riding a Nightmare (flying evil Pegasus). And during the fight the mount was killed sending them all into a 1200ft nose dive which did 120d6, (311dmg) to her polymorphed Ape form, which was it turned out exactly 3 points from killing her instantly with the massive damage rule (PHB page197).



An argument about the damage rule ensued, which I felt was squared away with simple math, but it then lead directly to another argument over the fact that she got to remain in her Giant Ape form because she still had the spell Death Ward active on her sheet. This might have just been simple confusion over how much time had passed after their long rest, as in her case she had Death Ward active for 16 total hrs, not 8, because of the divine sorcerer's "Extended Spell" metamagic (PHB page102).



The argument then CONTINUED to the entire table's near complete exasperation, as it became a debate over whether, or not, she should be reverted back to her original Sorceress form because she hit 0hp (which triggered the ward), or if she never actually hit 0hp because ward keeps you at 1hp.... Ugh



I made a ruling at the table that yes, she's going to continue on as a giant ape at 1hp despite taking over three hundred damage, regardless of how "ridiculous" the other players found it to be because those are the rules and also: "Because: MAGIC". But the RAW question that's now eating at me is: Does the spell Death Ward keep you at 1hp after you technically hit 0hp, or do you just never go below 1hp?







dnd-5e damage polymorph






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edited Sep 19 at 14:00









NathanS

16.8k471179




16.8k471179










asked Sep 19 at 13:10









AshRandom

1,536732




1,536732







  • 22




    Falling damage caps at 20d6. Also not on topic, but still relevant: Hits taken while you polymorphed yourself can break your concentration on the polymorph spell
    – Inferno IV
    Sep 19 at 14:08











  • @InfernoIV ha! I don't think any of us knew that falling dmg had a cap. Thanks for the info
    – AshRandom
    Sep 19 at 16:42







  • 5




    That "Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the damage you take requires Concentration checks" always gets me, too, but it's quite necessary; otherwise Polymorph becomes pretty OP.
    – Xanthir
    Sep 19 at 17:00












  • 22




    Falling damage caps at 20d6. Also not on topic, but still relevant: Hits taken while you polymorphed yourself can break your concentration on the polymorph spell
    – Inferno IV
    Sep 19 at 14:08











  • @InfernoIV ha! I don't think any of us knew that falling dmg had a cap. Thanks for the info
    – AshRandom
    Sep 19 at 16:42







  • 5




    That "Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the damage you take requires Concentration checks" always gets me, too, but it's quite necessary; otherwise Polymorph becomes pretty OP.
    – Xanthir
    Sep 19 at 17:00







22




22




Falling damage caps at 20d6. Also not on topic, but still relevant: Hits taken while you polymorphed yourself can break your concentration on the polymorph spell
– Inferno IV
Sep 19 at 14:08





Falling damage caps at 20d6. Also not on topic, but still relevant: Hits taken while you polymorphed yourself can break your concentration on the polymorph spell
– Inferno IV
Sep 19 at 14:08













@InfernoIV ha! I don't think any of us knew that falling dmg had a cap. Thanks for the info
– AshRandom
Sep 19 at 16:42





@InfernoIV ha! I don't think any of us knew that falling dmg had a cap. Thanks for the info
– AshRandom
Sep 19 at 16:42





5




5




That "Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the damage you take requires Concentration checks" always gets me, too, but it's quite necessary; otherwise Polymorph becomes pretty OP.
– Xanthir
Sep 19 at 17:00




That "Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the damage you take requires Concentration checks" always gets me, too, but it's quite necessary; otherwise Polymorph becomes pretty OP.
– Xanthir
Sep 19 at 17:00










4 Answers
4






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up vote
33
down vote













The Sorcerer retains their Giant Ape form with 1 HP



Death ward specifies the following




The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




Emphasis mine. The point here being, the Sorcerer was the target of the spell. Their hit points were replaced with that of their new form, however Polymorph does not remove benefits of spells cast on the previous form.



This means their new hit point pool never drops to 0 hit points.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    22
    down vote













    Ape at 1 HP




    Death ward is still in effect



    Since the ape is still a valid target for death ward, the spell is still in effect. If the ape were not a valid target for death ward, it would be suppressed.



    Would Drop




    The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




    "Would" is the operative word here. The meaning is expressing the future tense. Specifically, in the future where the damage drops the target to 0 hp. This spell prevents that future entirely as is indicated by "instead."



    Restating this for this case: "If the damage would drop the ape to 0 HP, the ape instead drops to 1 hp and the spell ends."






    share|improve this answer





























      up vote
      6
      down vote














      Death Ward would prevent dropping to 0 HP



      Death ward (PHB, pg. 230) says:




      The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point and the spell ends.




      Therefore, since the Giant Ape form of the Sorceress never hit 0 HP, I would understand that to mean that the polymorph spell does not end since that form never hit 0 HP.






      share|improve this answer



























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        since the Spell discription states "if it WOULD X it INSTEAD Y" i would say she never actually drops to 0.



        "The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends."



        One might Argue though that loosing Polymorph does not qualify as dying even if she ""would drop to 0 hp""






        share|improve this answer




















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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes








          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          33
          down vote













          The Sorcerer retains their Giant Ape form with 1 HP



          Death ward specifies the following




          The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




          Emphasis mine. The point here being, the Sorcerer was the target of the spell. Their hit points were replaced with that of their new form, however Polymorph does not remove benefits of spells cast on the previous form.



          This means their new hit point pool never drops to 0 hit points.






          share|improve this answer
























            up vote
            33
            down vote













            The Sorcerer retains their Giant Ape form with 1 HP



            Death ward specifies the following




            The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




            Emphasis mine. The point here being, the Sorcerer was the target of the spell. Their hit points were replaced with that of their new form, however Polymorph does not remove benefits of spells cast on the previous form.



            This means their new hit point pool never drops to 0 hit points.






            share|improve this answer






















              up vote
              33
              down vote










              up vote
              33
              down vote









              The Sorcerer retains their Giant Ape form with 1 HP



              Death ward specifies the following




              The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




              Emphasis mine. The point here being, the Sorcerer was the target of the spell. Their hit points were replaced with that of their new form, however Polymorph does not remove benefits of spells cast on the previous form.



              This means their new hit point pool never drops to 0 hit points.






              share|improve this answer












              The Sorcerer retains their Giant Ape form with 1 HP



              Death ward specifies the following




              The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




              Emphasis mine. The point here being, the Sorcerer was the target of the spell. Their hit points were replaced with that of their new form, however Polymorph does not remove benefits of spells cast on the previous form.



              This means their new hit point pool never drops to 0 hit points.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered Sep 19 at 13:20









              Duncan McKirdy

              921313




              921313






















                  up vote
                  22
                  down vote













                  Ape at 1 HP




                  Death ward is still in effect



                  Since the ape is still a valid target for death ward, the spell is still in effect. If the ape were not a valid target for death ward, it would be suppressed.



                  Would Drop




                  The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




                  "Would" is the operative word here. The meaning is expressing the future tense. Specifically, in the future where the damage drops the target to 0 hp. This spell prevents that future entirely as is indicated by "instead."



                  Restating this for this case: "If the damage would drop the ape to 0 HP, the ape instead drops to 1 hp and the spell ends."






                  share|improve this answer


























                    up vote
                    22
                    down vote













                    Ape at 1 HP




                    Death ward is still in effect



                    Since the ape is still a valid target for death ward, the spell is still in effect. If the ape were not a valid target for death ward, it would be suppressed.



                    Would Drop




                    The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




                    "Would" is the operative word here. The meaning is expressing the future tense. Specifically, in the future where the damage drops the target to 0 hp. This spell prevents that future entirely as is indicated by "instead."



                    Restating this for this case: "If the damage would drop the ape to 0 HP, the ape instead drops to 1 hp and the spell ends."






                    share|improve this answer
























                      up vote
                      22
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      22
                      down vote









                      Ape at 1 HP




                      Death ward is still in effect



                      Since the ape is still a valid target for death ward, the spell is still in effect. If the ape were not a valid target for death ward, it would be suppressed.



                      Would Drop




                      The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




                      "Would" is the operative word here. The meaning is expressing the future tense. Specifically, in the future where the damage drops the target to 0 hp. This spell prevents that future entirely as is indicated by "instead."



                      Restating this for this case: "If the damage would drop the ape to 0 HP, the ape instead drops to 1 hp and the spell ends."






                      share|improve this answer














                      Ape at 1 HP




                      Death ward is still in effect



                      Since the ape is still a valid target for death ward, the spell is still in effect. If the ape were not a valid target for death ward, it would be suppressed.



                      Would Drop




                      The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends.




                      "Would" is the operative word here. The meaning is expressing the future tense. Specifically, in the future where the damage drops the target to 0 hp. This spell prevents that future entirely as is indicated by "instead."



                      Restating this for this case: "If the damage would drop the ape to 0 HP, the ape instead drops to 1 hp and the spell ends."







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited Sep 19 at 17:10









                      V2Blast

                      15.8k236101




                      15.8k236101










                      answered Sep 19 at 13:18









                      Grosscol

                      4,442838




                      4,442838




















                          up vote
                          6
                          down vote














                          Death Ward would prevent dropping to 0 HP



                          Death ward (PHB, pg. 230) says:




                          The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point and the spell ends.




                          Therefore, since the Giant Ape form of the Sorceress never hit 0 HP, I would understand that to mean that the polymorph spell does not end since that form never hit 0 HP.






                          share|improve this answer
























                            up vote
                            6
                            down vote














                            Death Ward would prevent dropping to 0 HP



                            Death ward (PHB, pg. 230) says:




                            The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point and the spell ends.




                            Therefore, since the Giant Ape form of the Sorceress never hit 0 HP, I would understand that to mean that the polymorph spell does not end since that form never hit 0 HP.






                            share|improve this answer






















                              up vote
                              6
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              6
                              down vote










                              Death Ward would prevent dropping to 0 HP



                              Death ward (PHB, pg. 230) says:




                              The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point and the spell ends.




                              Therefore, since the Giant Ape form of the Sorceress never hit 0 HP, I would understand that to mean that the polymorph spell does not end since that form never hit 0 HP.






                              share|improve this answer













                              Death Ward would prevent dropping to 0 HP



                              Death ward (PHB, pg. 230) says:




                              The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point and the spell ends.




                              Therefore, since the Giant Ape form of the Sorceress never hit 0 HP, I would understand that to mean that the polymorph spell does not end since that form never hit 0 HP.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered Sep 19 at 13:23









                              NathanS

                              16.8k471179




                              16.8k471179




















                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  since the Spell discription states "if it WOULD X it INSTEAD Y" i would say she never actually drops to 0.



                                  "The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends."



                                  One might Argue though that loosing Polymorph does not qualify as dying even if she ""would drop to 0 hp""






                                  share|improve this answer
























                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    since the Spell discription states "if it WOULD X it INSTEAD Y" i would say she never actually drops to 0.



                                    "The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends."



                                    One might Argue though that loosing Polymorph does not qualify as dying even if she ""would drop to 0 hp""






                                    share|improve this answer






















                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote









                                      since the Spell discription states "if it WOULD X it INSTEAD Y" i would say she never actually drops to 0.



                                      "The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends."



                                      One might Argue though that loosing Polymorph does not qualify as dying even if she ""would drop to 0 hp""






                                      share|improve this answer












                                      since the Spell discription states "if it WOULD X it INSTEAD Y" i would say she never actually drops to 0.



                                      "The first time the target would drop to 0 hit points as a result of taking damage, the target instead drops to 1 hit point, and the spell ends."



                                      One might Argue though that loosing Polymorph does not qualify as dying even if she ""would drop to 0 hp""







                                      share|improve this answer












                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer










                                      answered Sep 19 at 13:20









                                      YamiArts

                                      271




                                      271



























                                           

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