Are there historical references that show that “diatonic” is a version of 'di-tonic' meaning 'two tonics'?
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Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic
But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.
This is also the position of a music theory website ...
http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...
"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."
But there is no historical reference here.
Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?
theory history
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
add a comment |
Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic
But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.
This is also the position of a music theory website ...
http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...
"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."
But there is no historical reference here.
Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?
theory history
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
5
Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
– replete
Feb 24 at 1:11
add a comment |
Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic
But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.
This is also the position of a music theory website ...
http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...
"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."
But there is no historical reference here.
Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?
theory history
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
Wikipedia says that "diatonic" refers to a whole note scale or a scale with seven pitched per octave.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatonic_and_chromatic
But my take is that the major and minor scale are built from five-note groupings with the intervals of WWHW and WHWW ... which is another way of saying that keys are built in fifths C-G-D-A etc. because C and G (I and V) are the most consonant notes ... the G is the 'secondary tonic'.
This is also the position of a music theory website ...
http://www.historyofmusictheory.com/?page_id=158 which states...
"This second tonic or “Di-tonic” which phonetically can be argued that this was the original meaning of “Dia-tonic” (Two tonics root and 5th producing the Hypo(dual tonic/di-tonic) scales as opposed to the common “Diatonic” naming convention."
But there is no historical reference here.
Is there an actual historical reference to our phonetic speculations that diatonic really means 'di-tonic'?
theory history
theory history
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
asked Feb 24 at 0:15
Randy ZeitmanRandy Zeitman
465212
465212
5
Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
– replete
Feb 24 at 1:11
add a comment |
5
Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
– replete
Feb 24 at 1:11
5
5
Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
– replete
Feb 24 at 1:11
Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
– replete
Feb 24 at 1:11
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 24 at 1:55
I think the Greek might be διατονικό
– Tom Serb
Feb 24 at 4:53
@TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
– replete
Feb 24 at 5:06
2
@RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
– user45266
Feb 24 at 6:49
@user57883 Yes, and I did as well ... make up the etymological claim... it's the motive for the question.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:52
|
show 2 more comments
The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.
"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
Yes, two tones ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditonic_scale
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:55
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 24 at 1:55
I think the Greek might be διατονικό
– Tom Serb
Feb 24 at 4:53
@TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
– replete
Feb 24 at 5:06
2
@RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
– user45266
Feb 24 at 6:49
@user57883 Yes, and I did as well ... make up the etymological claim... it's the motive for the question.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:52
|
show 2 more comments
Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 24 at 1:55
I think the Greek might be διατονικό
– Tom Serb
Feb 24 at 4:53
@TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
– replete
Feb 24 at 5:06
2
@RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
– user45266
Feb 24 at 6:49
@user57883 Yes, and I did as well ... make up the etymological claim... it's the motive for the question.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:52
|
show 2 more comments
Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
Diatonic comes from Greek "διατονική" (there are early Greek music theory texts from times way before Western Middle Ages) and "di" and "dia" are completely different word constituents in Greek. It sounds like that website is making up things.
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
answered Feb 24 at 1:42
user57883user57883
811
811
Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 24 at 1:55
I think the Greek might be διατονικό
– Tom Serb
Feb 24 at 4:53
@TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
– replete
Feb 24 at 5:06
2
@RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
– user45266
Feb 24 at 6:49
@user57883 Yes, and I did as well ... make up the etymological claim... it's the motive for the question.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:52
|
show 2 more comments
Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 24 at 1:55
I think the Greek might be διατονικό
– Tom Serb
Feb 24 at 4:53
@TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
– replete
Feb 24 at 5:06
2
@RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
– user45266
Feb 24 at 6:49
@user57883 Yes, and I did as well ... make up the etymological claim... it's the motive for the question.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:52
Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 24 at 1:55
Yes, they are and I am too. We both state so.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 24 at 1:55
I think the Greek might be διατονικό
– Tom Serb
Feb 24 at 4:53
I think the Greek might be διατονικό
– Tom Serb
Feb 24 at 4:53
@TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
– replete
Feb 24 at 5:06
@TomSerb, those are both cases of the same form διατονικός. el.wiktionary.org/wiki/…
– replete
Feb 24 at 5:06
2
2
@RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
– user45266
Feb 24 at 6:49
@RandyZeitman User57883 means that the website made up the etymological claim.
– user45266
Feb 24 at 6:49
@user57883 Yes, and I did as well ... make up the etymological claim... it's the motive for the question.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:52
@user57883 Yes, and I did as well ... make up the etymological claim... it's the motive for the question.
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:52
|
show 2 more comments
The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.
"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
Yes, two tones ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditonic_scale
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:55
add a comment |
The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.
"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
Yes, two tones ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditonic_scale
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:55
add a comment |
The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.
"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
The only times I've seen the word "ditonic" used in music were in theoretical scale lists. Rather than meaning "two tonics" it means "two tones", in the same sense that we use in talking about pentatonic or heptatonic scales.
"dia-" is Greek for "through": diameters are measures through a circle, diagonals are lines dividing squares or rectangles, etc by going through their center from corner to corner, etc. Diatonic is literally "through the tones".
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
answered Feb 24 at 4:49
Tom SerbTom Serb
1,054110
1,054110
Yes, two tones ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditonic_scale
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:55
add a comment |
Yes, two tones ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditonic_scale
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:55
Yes, two tones ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditonic_scale
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:55
Yes, two tones ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ditonic_scale
– Randy Zeitman
Feb 25 at 0:55
add a comment |
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Reputable dictionaries show the etymology with dia- without exception, so the burden of proof is on the website. At any rate, it is not etymology that will validate an unconventional theory, but whether it is useful.
– replete
Feb 24 at 1:11