How do you differentiate with respect to y?

Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
$begingroup$
Find the gradient of
$$z=x^y$$
I understand how to get it with respect to $x$ since $y$ is treated as a constant. But when trying to solve it with respect to $y$, why is it incorrect to implicitly differentiate and use the product rule:
$$ln(z)=ycdot ln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=Bigr(ycdot frac1xBigr)+(1cdot ln(x))$$
$$z_y=zBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
$$z_y=x^yBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
derivatives
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Find the gradient of
$$z=x^y$$
I understand how to get it with respect to $x$ since $y$ is treated as a constant. But when trying to solve it with respect to $y$, why is it incorrect to implicitly differentiate and use the product rule:
$$ln(z)=ycdot ln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=Bigr(ycdot frac1xBigr)+(1cdot ln(x))$$
$$z_y=zBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
$$z_y=x^yBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
derivatives
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Find the gradient of
$$z=x^y$$
I understand how to get it with respect to $x$ since $y$ is treated as a constant. But when trying to solve it with respect to $y$, why is it incorrect to implicitly differentiate and use the product rule:
$$ln(z)=ycdot ln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=Bigr(ycdot frac1xBigr)+(1cdot ln(x))$$
$$z_y=zBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
$$z_y=x^yBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
derivatives
$endgroup$
Find the gradient of
$$z=x^y$$
I understand how to get it with respect to $x$ since $y$ is treated as a constant. But when trying to solve it with respect to $y$, why is it incorrect to implicitly differentiate and use the product rule:
$$ln(z)=ycdot ln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=Bigr(ycdot frac1xBigr)+(1cdot ln(x))$$
$$z_y=zBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
$$z_y=x^yBigr(fracyx+ln(x)Bigr)$$
derivatives
derivatives
edited Jan 15 at 1:14
Xander Henderson
14.3k103554
14.3k103554
asked Jan 15 at 1:06
Random StudentRandom Student
443
443
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add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
In single-variable calculus, a first application of implicit differentiation is typically to find the derivative of $x mapsto a^x$, where $a > 0$. The typical argument is
beginalign*
y = a^x
&implies log(y) = xlog(a) \
&implies frac1y y' = log(a) \
&implies y' = ylog(a) = a^x log(a).
endalign*
In your problem, when you differentiate with respect to $y$, you need to regard $x$ as a constant (you should also probably assume that $x > 0$). You can then apply the single-variable result to get
$$ z_y
= fracmathrmdmathrmdy x^y
= x^ylog(x).
$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $x $ is not a function of $y $. Hence $x_y=0$. So the correct one is:
$$ln(z)=ycdotln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=1cdotln(x)$$
$$z_y=zln(x)$$
$$z_y=x^yln(x)$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When take the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $y$, are you treating $x$ as a constant or as a function of $y$?
If the former then (using your notation) you get $fracz_yz=1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y = x^y ln(x)$
If the latter then you get $fracz_yz=y times frac1xtimes x_y+1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y =y x^y-1 x_y+ x^y ln(x)$. Then you might also want to say $z_x = y x^y-1+ x^y ln(x) y_x$ when taking the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $x$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When we're differentiating with respect to $y$, $x$ should be treated as a constant. The $frac yx$ term in there that comes from differentiating $x$ shouldn't be there.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The variables $x$ and $y$ are to be considered independent when computing the gradient of $z$, that is,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y), tag 1$
which is a vector. We have
$z = x^y, tag 2$
whence
$z_x = yx^y - 1, tag 3$
as our OP Random Student has noted. As for $z_y$, we have
$ln z = y ln x, tag 4$
whence
$dfracz_yz = ln x, tag 5$
or
$z_y = z ln x = x^y ln x; tag 6$
thus,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y) = (yx^y - 1, x^y ln x). tag 7$
In (4)-(6), we have implicitly differentated $z$ with respect to $y$ alone, holding $x$ constant.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
In single-variable calculus, a first application of implicit differentiation is typically to find the derivative of $x mapsto a^x$, where $a > 0$. The typical argument is
beginalign*
y = a^x
&implies log(y) = xlog(a) \
&implies frac1y y' = log(a) \
&implies y' = ylog(a) = a^x log(a).
endalign*
In your problem, when you differentiate with respect to $y$, you need to regard $x$ as a constant (you should also probably assume that $x > 0$). You can then apply the single-variable result to get
$$ z_y
= fracmathrmdmathrmdy x^y
= x^ylog(x).
$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In single-variable calculus, a first application of implicit differentiation is typically to find the derivative of $x mapsto a^x$, where $a > 0$. The typical argument is
beginalign*
y = a^x
&implies log(y) = xlog(a) \
&implies frac1y y' = log(a) \
&implies y' = ylog(a) = a^x log(a).
endalign*
In your problem, when you differentiate with respect to $y$, you need to regard $x$ as a constant (you should also probably assume that $x > 0$). You can then apply the single-variable result to get
$$ z_y
= fracmathrmdmathrmdy x^y
= x^ylog(x).
$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In single-variable calculus, a first application of implicit differentiation is typically to find the derivative of $x mapsto a^x$, where $a > 0$. The typical argument is
beginalign*
y = a^x
&implies log(y) = xlog(a) \
&implies frac1y y' = log(a) \
&implies y' = ylog(a) = a^x log(a).
endalign*
In your problem, when you differentiate with respect to $y$, you need to regard $x$ as a constant (you should also probably assume that $x > 0$). You can then apply the single-variable result to get
$$ z_y
= fracmathrmdmathrmdy x^y
= x^ylog(x).
$$
$endgroup$
In single-variable calculus, a first application of implicit differentiation is typically to find the derivative of $x mapsto a^x$, where $a > 0$. The typical argument is
beginalign*
y = a^x
&implies log(y) = xlog(a) \
&implies frac1y y' = log(a) \
&implies y' = ylog(a) = a^x log(a).
endalign*
In your problem, when you differentiate with respect to $y$, you need to regard $x$ as a constant (you should also probably assume that $x > 0$). You can then apply the single-variable result to get
$$ z_y
= fracmathrmdmathrmdy x^y
= x^ylog(x).
$$
answered Jan 15 at 1:13
Xander HendersonXander Henderson
14.3k103554
14.3k103554
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $x $ is not a function of $y $. Hence $x_y=0$. So the correct one is:
$$ln(z)=ycdotln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=1cdotln(x)$$
$$z_y=zln(x)$$
$$z_y=x^yln(x)$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $x $ is not a function of $y $. Hence $x_y=0$. So the correct one is:
$$ln(z)=ycdotln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=1cdotln(x)$$
$$z_y=zln(x)$$
$$z_y=x^yln(x)$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Note that $x $ is not a function of $y $. Hence $x_y=0$. So the correct one is:
$$ln(z)=ycdotln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=1cdotln(x)$$
$$z_y=zln(x)$$
$$z_y=x^yln(x)$$
$endgroup$
Note that $x $ is not a function of $y $. Hence $x_y=0$. So the correct one is:
$$ln(z)=ycdotln(x)$$
$$frac(z_y)z=1cdotln(x)$$
$$z_y=zln(x)$$
$$z_y=x^yln(x)$$
answered Jan 15 at 1:15
Thomas ShelbyThomas Shelby
2,710421
2,710421
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When take the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $y$, are you treating $x$ as a constant or as a function of $y$?
If the former then (using your notation) you get $fracz_yz=1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y = x^y ln(x)$
If the latter then you get $fracz_yz=y times frac1xtimes x_y+1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y =y x^y-1 x_y+ x^y ln(x)$. Then you might also want to say $z_x = y x^y-1+ x^y ln(x) y_x$ when taking the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $x$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When take the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $y$, are you treating $x$ as a constant or as a function of $y$?
If the former then (using your notation) you get $fracz_yz=1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y = x^y ln(x)$
If the latter then you get $fracz_yz=y times frac1xtimes x_y+1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y =y x^y-1 x_y+ x^y ln(x)$. Then you might also want to say $z_x = y x^y-1+ x^y ln(x) y_x$ when taking the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $x$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When take the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $y$, are you treating $x$ as a constant or as a function of $y$?
If the former then (using your notation) you get $fracz_yz=1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y = x^y ln(x)$
If the latter then you get $fracz_yz=y times frac1xtimes x_y+1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y =y x^y-1 x_y+ x^y ln(x)$. Then you might also want to say $z_x = y x^y-1+ x^y ln(x) y_x$ when taking the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $x$
$endgroup$
When take the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $y$, are you treating $x$ as a constant or as a function of $y$?
If the former then (using your notation) you get $fracz_yz=1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y = x^y ln(x)$
If the latter then you get $fracz_yz=y times frac1xtimes x_y+1 times ln(x)$ and so $z_y =y x^y-1 x_y+ x^y ln(x)$. Then you might also want to say $z_x = y x^y-1+ x^y ln(x) y_x$ when taking the derivative of $x^y$ with respect to $x$
answered Jan 15 at 1:13
HenryHenry
99.7k479165
99.7k479165
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When we're differentiating with respect to $y$, $x$ should be treated as a constant. The $frac yx$ term in there that comes from differentiating $x$ shouldn't be there.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When we're differentiating with respect to $y$, $x$ should be treated as a constant. The $frac yx$ term in there that comes from differentiating $x$ shouldn't be there.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When we're differentiating with respect to $y$, $x$ should be treated as a constant. The $frac yx$ term in there that comes from differentiating $x$ shouldn't be there.
$endgroup$
When we're differentiating with respect to $y$, $x$ should be treated as a constant. The $frac yx$ term in there that comes from differentiating $x$ shouldn't be there.
answered Jan 15 at 1:11
jmerryjmerry
6,232718
6,232718
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The variables $x$ and $y$ are to be considered independent when computing the gradient of $z$, that is,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y), tag 1$
which is a vector. We have
$z = x^y, tag 2$
whence
$z_x = yx^y - 1, tag 3$
as our OP Random Student has noted. As for $z_y$, we have
$ln z = y ln x, tag 4$
whence
$dfracz_yz = ln x, tag 5$
or
$z_y = z ln x = x^y ln x; tag 6$
thus,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y) = (yx^y - 1, x^y ln x). tag 7$
In (4)-(6), we have implicitly differentated $z$ with respect to $y$ alone, holding $x$ constant.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The variables $x$ and $y$ are to be considered independent when computing the gradient of $z$, that is,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y), tag 1$
which is a vector. We have
$z = x^y, tag 2$
whence
$z_x = yx^y - 1, tag 3$
as our OP Random Student has noted. As for $z_y$, we have
$ln z = y ln x, tag 4$
whence
$dfracz_yz = ln x, tag 5$
or
$z_y = z ln x = x^y ln x; tag 6$
thus,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y) = (yx^y - 1, x^y ln x). tag 7$
In (4)-(6), we have implicitly differentated $z$ with respect to $y$ alone, holding $x$ constant.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The variables $x$ and $y$ are to be considered independent when computing the gradient of $z$, that is,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y), tag 1$
which is a vector. We have
$z = x^y, tag 2$
whence
$z_x = yx^y - 1, tag 3$
as our OP Random Student has noted. As for $z_y$, we have
$ln z = y ln x, tag 4$
whence
$dfracz_yz = ln x, tag 5$
or
$z_y = z ln x = x^y ln x; tag 6$
thus,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y) = (yx^y - 1, x^y ln x). tag 7$
In (4)-(6), we have implicitly differentated $z$ with respect to $y$ alone, holding $x$ constant.
$endgroup$
The variables $x$ and $y$ are to be considered independent when computing the gradient of $z$, that is,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y), tag 1$
which is a vector. We have
$z = x^y, tag 2$
whence
$z_x = yx^y - 1, tag 3$
as our OP Random Student has noted. As for $z_y$, we have
$ln z = y ln x, tag 4$
whence
$dfracz_yz = ln x, tag 5$
or
$z_y = z ln x = x^y ln x; tag 6$
thus,
$nabla z = (z_x, z_y) = (yx^y - 1, x^y ln x). tag 7$
In (4)-(6), we have implicitly differentated $z$ with respect to $y$ alone, holding $x$ constant.
edited Jan 15 at 3:29
answered Jan 15 at 1:23
Robert LewisRobert Lewis
45.6k23065
45.6k23065
add a comment |
add a comment |
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