How can a computer assign an IP address to itself? Aren't IP addresses assigned to computers by routers?

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0














I can do this:



/sbin/ip addr add 172.17.0.12 dev eth0


This possibility conflicts with my (apparently overly simplistic and untrue) mental model of how assigning IP addresses work.



According this mental model:



  • Computers do not assign IP addresses to themselves;

  • Instead, computers are assigned IP addresses by servers managing the networks they connect to.

  • This will mean routers for home PCs, ISP servers for these routers, and so on.

To me, the idea of assigning an IP address to oneself seems... senseless? So what if a computer declares "this is my IP address"? The point of IP addresses is so that routers may know where should a packet be forwarded to.



In the above example, when a computer assigns a private network address 172.17.0.12 to itself, this would only make sense if the router of that private network knew and agreed that this computer has this address. But in this case this will not be true! So can any packet ever come to eth0 to this computer?










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  • 2




    "TCP/P Illustrated, the protocols vol I", Stevens et al, 2nd edition
    – Rui F Ribeiro
    Dec 17 at 16:15











  • This is not a Linux or Unix specific question. Think it fits better on super user.
    – Tim
    Dec 17 at 16:24










  • What other systems have a /sbin/ directory that can be used in the method described? @Tim
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 18 at 19:08










  • This specific command no, but the question is not about the issued command. Its about IP addresses. One can also set them manually in Windows.
    – Tim
    Dec 19 at 20:12















0














I can do this:



/sbin/ip addr add 172.17.0.12 dev eth0


This possibility conflicts with my (apparently overly simplistic and untrue) mental model of how assigning IP addresses work.



According this mental model:



  • Computers do not assign IP addresses to themselves;

  • Instead, computers are assigned IP addresses by servers managing the networks they connect to.

  • This will mean routers for home PCs, ISP servers for these routers, and so on.

To me, the idea of assigning an IP address to oneself seems... senseless? So what if a computer declares "this is my IP address"? The point of IP addresses is so that routers may know where should a packet be forwarded to.



In the above example, when a computer assigns a private network address 172.17.0.12 to itself, this would only make sense if the router of that private network knew and agreed that this computer has this address. But in this case this will not be true! So can any packet ever come to eth0 to this computer?










share|improve this question



















  • 2




    "TCP/P Illustrated, the protocols vol I", Stevens et al, 2nd edition
    – Rui F Ribeiro
    Dec 17 at 16:15











  • This is not a Linux or Unix specific question. Think it fits better on super user.
    – Tim
    Dec 17 at 16:24










  • What other systems have a /sbin/ directory that can be used in the method described? @Tim
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 18 at 19:08










  • This specific command no, but the question is not about the issued command. Its about IP addresses. One can also set them manually in Windows.
    – Tim
    Dec 19 at 20:12













0












0








0







I can do this:



/sbin/ip addr add 172.17.0.12 dev eth0


This possibility conflicts with my (apparently overly simplistic and untrue) mental model of how assigning IP addresses work.



According this mental model:



  • Computers do not assign IP addresses to themselves;

  • Instead, computers are assigned IP addresses by servers managing the networks they connect to.

  • This will mean routers for home PCs, ISP servers for these routers, and so on.

To me, the idea of assigning an IP address to oneself seems... senseless? So what if a computer declares "this is my IP address"? The point of IP addresses is so that routers may know where should a packet be forwarded to.



In the above example, when a computer assigns a private network address 172.17.0.12 to itself, this would only make sense if the router of that private network knew and agreed that this computer has this address. But in this case this will not be true! So can any packet ever come to eth0 to this computer?










share|improve this question















I can do this:



/sbin/ip addr add 172.17.0.12 dev eth0


This possibility conflicts with my (apparently overly simplistic and untrue) mental model of how assigning IP addresses work.



According this mental model:



  • Computers do not assign IP addresses to themselves;

  • Instead, computers are assigned IP addresses by servers managing the networks they connect to.

  • This will mean routers for home PCs, ISP servers for these routers, and so on.

To me, the idea of assigning an IP address to oneself seems... senseless? So what if a computer declares "this is my IP address"? The point of IP addresses is so that routers may know where should a packet be forwarded to.



In the above example, when a computer assigns a private network address 172.17.0.12 to itself, this would only make sense if the router of that private network knew and agreed that this computer has this address. But in this case this will not be true! So can any packet ever come to eth0 to this computer?







ip routing ip-address






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edited Dec 17 at 17:12









sourcejedi

22.7k435100




22.7k435100










asked Dec 17 at 15:28









gaazkam

3531514




3531514







  • 2




    "TCP/P Illustrated, the protocols vol I", Stevens et al, 2nd edition
    – Rui F Ribeiro
    Dec 17 at 16:15











  • This is not a Linux or Unix specific question. Think it fits better on super user.
    – Tim
    Dec 17 at 16:24










  • What other systems have a /sbin/ directory that can be used in the method described? @Tim
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 18 at 19:08










  • This specific command no, but the question is not about the issued command. Its about IP addresses. One can also set them manually in Windows.
    – Tim
    Dec 19 at 20:12












  • 2




    "TCP/P Illustrated, the protocols vol I", Stevens et al, 2nd edition
    – Rui F Ribeiro
    Dec 17 at 16:15











  • This is not a Linux or Unix specific question. Think it fits better on super user.
    – Tim
    Dec 17 at 16:24










  • What other systems have a /sbin/ directory that can be used in the method described? @Tim
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 18 at 19:08










  • This specific command no, but the question is not about the issued command. Its about IP addresses. One can also set them manually in Windows.
    – Tim
    Dec 19 at 20:12







2




2




"TCP/P Illustrated, the protocols vol I", Stevens et al, 2nd edition
– Rui F Ribeiro
Dec 17 at 16:15





"TCP/P Illustrated, the protocols vol I", Stevens et al, 2nd edition
– Rui F Ribeiro
Dec 17 at 16:15













This is not a Linux or Unix specific question. Think it fits better on super user.
– Tim
Dec 17 at 16:24




This is not a Linux or Unix specific question. Think it fits better on super user.
– Tim
Dec 17 at 16:24












What other systems have a /sbin/ directory that can be used in the method described? @Tim
– Michael Prokopec
Dec 18 at 19:08




What other systems have a /sbin/ directory that can be used in the method described? @Tim
– Michael Prokopec
Dec 18 at 19:08












This specific command no, but the question is not about the issued command. Its about IP addresses. One can also set them manually in Windows.
– Tim
Dec 19 at 20:12




This specific command no, but the question is not about the issued command. Its about IP addresses. One can also set them manually in Windows.
– Tim
Dec 19 at 20:12










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















4














While the other answer(s) outline why static IP addressing exists, I want to answer your part of the question as to how it works.



What you are missing here is the ARP. Imagine a 172.17.0.0/16 private network. One of your clients has "given itself" the static IP address 172.17.0.12. A second client 172.17.0.42 wants to communicate with 172.17.0.12. Following ARP, 172.17.0.42 sends a broadcast. It is effectively yelling all over the place "Who has the IP Address 172.17.0.12?". 172.17.0.12 answers and communication is established. Note that if there are two clients who claim to have the same IP address, chaos ensues.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2




    This is the key. It explains how a computer can assign itself an address and have others discover that, as well as why a computer needs to know its own address.
    – Stephen Kitt
    Dec 17 at 16:15











  • That and routers are not configured to just serve addresses that they handed out explicitely (unless the admin is seriously paranoid). They are configured to serve a whole range of addresses. So if you manage to guess the correct range and the address of the router for that network, you will most likely get served.
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:22










  • @jakub_d Also, routers do not hand out addresses. Many home devices include a DHCP server with the router OS but this is a add-on and need not be present or activated.
    – Doug O'Neal
    Dec 17 at 19:48


















3














An IP address can be assigned by a responsible device on the LAN, for example a Server or Router, using a called DHCP. (This is defined in RFC 2131 and extended in at least RFC 2132.)



A device can also self-configure its address and avoid the need for DHCP. The ip command you have demonstrated does exactly this.



Note that there are two main caveats in this scenario



  1. If you choose an address that is already actively in use by another device you will conflict traffic to both devices (yours and the other one).

  2. If you choose an address that is not part of the LAN subnet you will get no useful communication with any other device (for example, setting 192.168.1.1/24 on a network that expects 172.12.1.*/24).

Finally, you asked why a server should want to self-configure. The quick answer here is that the DHCP server itself needs to know its own IP address before it can start serving requests. Other possibilities are network routers, and central authentication servers (a Domain Controller in the Active Directory world of Windows, or an LDAP server in the UNIX/Linux world).






share|improve this answer


















  • 2




    In assign-by-hand networks the exact rules are specified by the network administrator and if you take an address you were not supposed to and break something, the administrator will look for you and bite you in half...
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:03






  • 2




    other fun reading - how ipv6 does it: stateless autoconfiguration (ip address is derived from the hardware address, guaranteed to be unique by the manufacturer), then you get the router by listening for router advertisement broadcasts
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:05










  • @roaima what about wikipedia? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:14


















1














Assigning oneself an IP address makes it easier to know what IP that computer has. Routers will do this by DHCP or a reserved DHCP address based on mac address.



  • Pure DHCP will assign any given unused address in a range of IP addresses this is not Ideal if you are running servers/services on a number of systems.


  • DHCP reserved IP address will stay with any given mac address. This is ideal but it is cumbersome having to write down or have the target computer online to add it to the reserved lists. Plus if the router dies you have to do that all over again.


  • Assigning your own IP address is great in that you can do so from the computer itself. It will stay with the computer if you move it within or to another network. The downside is that if your address is already taken the network interface won't go online until the address conflict is settled. However if you assign it an IP outside of the DHCP region and make a note not to assign other computers on the network that address and you will not have that problem.


Most network pre-routing traffic hits all interfaces and/or the interface with the IP that is in the header responds. So yes packets will get to the eth0 interface but whether or not it responds or will operate on that network is dependant on if the IP and subnet mask are correct also the duplex full or half setting and such. Most default settings are good enough for most home or unsophisticated networks.






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  • “Most network traffic hits all interfaces” — no. Broadcast traffic does, as does Ethernet traffic where the MAC-to-port assignment isn’t known, but the normal scenario is that network traffic only goes to its target (found using ARP).
    – Stephen Kitt
    Dec 17 at 16:10










  • Made the assumption that is was mainly prerouting traffic because we were talking pre-IP assignment will clarify. @StephenKitt
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 17 at 16:12










  • Linux kernel is quite happy to bring up an ipv4 interface without performing Duplicate Address Detection. It's what happens soon afterwards that is the problem :-).
    – sourcejedi
    Dec 17 at 17:08










  • True, but it is not going to bring it up without an IP. Also, yes to the "what happens after" statement, IP conflicts, use as a DOS attack and the like. @sourcejedi
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 17 at 20:21










  • The distinction is that the interface will be up - contradicting your wording - and fighting the other computer. Whereas, it is also possible to do DAD first, and not contend for the address. IIUC that is the default for IPv6, and Windows may also use this approach on IPv4. So it is a real distinction and best not to be confused about :-).
    – sourcejedi
    Dec 17 at 21:42



















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Actually, all hosts on a network do claim their own IP address themselves. Always!



On the local network side a router has an IP address in a certain range (e.g.
192.168.9.x) and if a router receives a packet of bytes for, say, 192.168.9.12,
the router forwards it to its physical port that has the IP range
(192.168.9.0/24) configured that matches the destination address. On that port, it broadcasts on the local network: "Which host
claim IP address 192.168.9.12?"
. And any host that has its NIC configured to
have that specific IP address will answer, thus claiming the address. If all is
well, there is exactly only one host that claims it, and the router will send
the data packet to that host.



This broadcasting "who has IP address x.x.x.x" and claiming it by replying,
happens at a lower level and only works on a LAN (local network). This protocol
is called "ARP" (Address Resolution Protocol)



To put it in other words:



The address the router sends the data package to, on this lower level, is
actually the MAC address of the network interface card (NIC) of the host that
claims the IP address. It does so by replying to the ARP-request broadcast by the router.



So, it really is the host itself that decides what IP address it will
claim to have on a network.



On networks bigger than just a few hosts it will be a tedious task to keep
track of what IP address is to be used by what host. And then imagine editing a file on all computers allowed on the network to only tell it its IP address!



Also, if two (or more) hosts claim the same IP address, both will have a
serious network problem! That is why it is very practical to have a central
service on the local network that keeps track of which MAC address can use
which IP address. This is called "DHCP" (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol), which can also be used to inform hosts
of many other configuration parameters on the local network.



The DHCP protocol also operates on the same lower level as the ARP protocol. When a hosts
configures its NIC's (Network Interface Card), most often at boot time, it
broadcasts "Which IP address can I use on this network?". This is done by DHCP
client software. Since it's a broadcast, all hosts receive it, but only a DHCP
server will answer, hopefully mentioning a unique IP address, its netmask, the
gateway (router) address and possibly other things. The host keeps this in
memory knowing it can safely claim this IP address on the network for some time.



But this only works because the hosts cooperate by asking a DHCP-server for an IP address to use. Ultimately it is always the hosts who decide what IP address they'll claim....






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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    4














    While the other answer(s) outline why static IP addressing exists, I want to answer your part of the question as to how it works.



    What you are missing here is the ARP. Imagine a 172.17.0.0/16 private network. One of your clients has "given itself" the static IP address 172.17.0.12. A second client 172.17.0.42 wants to communicate with 172.17.0.12. Following ARP, 172.17.0.42 sends a broadcast. It is effectively yelling all over the place "Who has the IP Address 172.17.0.12?". 172.17.0.12 answers and communication is established. Note that if there are two clients who claim to have the same IP address, chaos ensues.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2




      This is the key. It explains how a computer can assign itself an address and have others discover that, as well as why a computer needs to know its own address.
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:15











    • That and routers are not configured to just serve addresses that they handed out explicitely (unless the admin is seriously paranoid). They are configured to serve a whole range of addresses. So if you manage to guess the correct range and the address of the router for that network, you will most likely get served.
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:22










    • @jakub_d Also, routers do not hand out addresses. Many home devices include a DHCP server with the router OS but this is a add-on and need not be present or activated.
      – Doug O'Neal
      Dec 17 at 19:48















    4














    While the other answer(s) outline why static IP addressing exists, I want to answer your part of the question as to how it works.



    What you are missing here is the ARP. Imagine a 172.17.0.0/16 private network. One of your clients has "given itself" the static IP address 172.17.0.12. A second client 172.17.0.42 wants to communicate with 172.17.0.12. Following ARP, 172.17.0.42 sends a broadcast. It is effectively yelling all over the place "Who has the IP Address 172.17.0.12?". 172.17.0.12 answers and communication is established. Note that if there are two clients who claim to have the same IP address, chaos ensues.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2




      This is the key. It explains how a computer can assign itself an address and have others discover that, as well as why a computer needs to know its own address.
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:15











    • That and routers are not configured to just serve addresses that they handed out explicitely (unless the admin is seriously paranoid). They are configured to serve a whole range of addresses. So if you manage to guess the correct range and the address of the router for that network, you will most likely get served.
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:22










    • @jakub_d Also, routers do not hand out addresses. Many home devices include a DHCP server with the router OS but this is a add-on and need not be present or activated.
      – Doug O'Neal
      Dec 17 at 19:48













    4












    4








    4






    While the other answer(s) outline why static IP addressing exists, I want to answer your part of the question as to how it works.



    What you are missing here is the ARP. Imagine a 172.17.0.0/16 private network. One of your clients has "given itself" the static IP address 172.17.0.12. A second client 172.17.0.42 wants to communicate with 172.17.0.12. Following ARP, 172.17.0.42 sends a broadcast. It is effectively yelling all over the place "Who has the IP Address 172.17.0.12?". 172.17.0.12 answers and communication is established. Note that if there are two clients who claim to have the same IP address, chaos ensues.






    share|improve this answer














    While the other answer(s) outline why static IP addressing exists, I want to answer your part of the question as to how it works.



    What you are missing here is the ARP. Imagine a 172.17.0.0/16 private network. One of your clients has "given itself" the static IP address 172.17.0.12. A second client 172.17.0.42 wants to communicate with 172.17.0.12. Following ARP, 172.17.0.42 sends a broadcast. It is effectively yelling all over the place "Who has the IP Address 172.17.0.12?". 172.17.0.12 answers and communication is established. Note that if there are two clients who claim to have the same IP address, chaos ensues.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Dec 17 at 19:11

























    answered Dec 17 at 16:12









    Hermann

    670413




    670413







    • 2




      This is the key. It explains how a computer can assign itself an address and have others discover that, as well as why a computer needs to know its own address.
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:15











    • That and routers are not configured to just serve addresses that they handed out explicitely (unless the admin is seriously paranoid). They are configured to serve a whole range of addresses. So if you manage to guess the correct range and the address of the router for that network, you will most likely get served.
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:22










    • @jakub_d Also, routers do not hand out addresses. Many home devices include a DHCP server with the router OS but this is a add-on and need not be present or activated.
      – Doug O'Neal
      Dec 17 at 19:48












    • 2




      This is the key. It explains how a computer can assign itself an address and have others discover that, as well as why a computer needs to know its own address.
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:15











    • That and routers are not configured to just serve addresses that they handed out explicitely (unless the admin is seriously paranoid). They are configured to serve a whole range of addresses. So if you manage to guess the correct range and the address of the router for that network, you will most likely get served.
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:22










    • @jakub_d Also, routers do not hand out addresses. Many home devices include a DHCP server with the router OS but this is a add-on and need not be present or activated.
      – Doug O'Neal
      Dec 17 at 19:48







    2




    2




    This is the key. It explains how a computer can assign itself an address and have others discover that, as well as why a computer needs to know its own address.
    – Stephen Kitt
    Dec 17 at 16:15





    This is the key. It explains how a computer can assign itself an address and have others discover that, as well as why a computer needs to know its own address.
    – Stephen Kitt
    Dec 17 at 16:15













    That and routers are not configured to just serve addresses that they handed out explicitely (unless the admin is seriously paranoid). They are configured to serve a whole range of addresses. So if you manage to guess the correct range and the address of the router for that network, you will most likely get served.
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:22




    That and routers are not configured to just serve addresses that they handed out explicitely (unless the admin is seriously paranoid). They are configured to serve a whole range of addresses. So if you manage to guess the correct range and the address of the router for that network, you will most likely get served.
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:22












    @jakub_d Also, routers do not hand out addresses. Many home devices include a DHCP server with the router OS but this is a add-on and need not be present or activated.
    – Doug O'Neal
    Dec 17 at 19:48




    @jakub_d Also, routers do not hand out addresses. Many home devices include a DHCP server with the router OS but this is a add-on and need not be present or activated.
    – Doug O'Neal
    Dec 17 at 19:48













    3














    An IP address can be assigned by a responsible device on the LAN, for example a Server or Router, using a called DHCP. (This is defined in RFC 2131 and extended in at least RFC 2132.)



    A device can also self-configure its address and avoid the need for DHCP. The ip command you have demonstrated does exactly this.



    Note that there are two main caveats in this scenario



    1. If you choose an address that is already actively in use by another device you will conflict traffic to both devices (yours and the other one).

    2. If you choose an address that is not part of the LAN subnet you will get no useful communication with any other device (for example, setting 192.168.1.1/24 on a network that expects 172.12.1.*/24).

    Finally, you asked why a server should want to self-configure. The quick answer here is that the DHCP server itself needs to know its own IP address before it can start serving requests. Other possibilities are network routers, and central authentication servers (a Domain Controller in the Active Directory world of Windows, or an LDAP server in the UNIX/Linux world).






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2




      In assign-by-hand networks the exact rules are specified by the network administrator and if you take an address you were not supposed to and break something, the administrator will look for you and bite you in half...
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:03






    • 2




      other fun reading - how ipv6 does it: stateless autoconfiguration (ip address is derived from the hardware address, guaranteed to be unique by the manufacturer), then you get the router by listening for router advertisement broadcasts
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:05










    • @roaima what about wikipedia? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:14















    3














    An IP address can be assigned by a responsible device on the LAN, for example a Server or Router, using a called DHCP. (This is defined in RFC 2131 and extended in at least RFC 2132.)



    A device can also self-configure its address and avoid the need for DHCP. The ip command you have demonstrated does exactly this.



    Note that there are two main caveats in this scenario



    1. If you choose an address that is already actively in use by another device you will conflict traffic to both devices (yours and the other one).

    2. If you choose an address that is not part of the LAN subnet you will get no useful communication with any other device (for example, setting 192.168.1.1/24 on a network that expects 172.12.1.*/24).

    Finally, you asked why a server should want to self-configure. The quick answer here is that the DHCP server itself needs to know its own IP address before it can start serving requests. Other possibilities are network routers, and central authentication servers (a Domain Controller in the Active Directory world of Windows, or an LDAP server in the UNIX/Linux world).






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2




      In assign-by-hand networks the exact rules are specified by the network administrator and if you take an address you were not supposed to and break something, the administrator will look for you and bite you in half...
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:03






    • 2




      other fun reading - how ipv6 does it: stateless autoconfiguration (ip address is derived from the hardware address, guaranteed to be unique by the manufacturer), then you get the router by listening for router advertisement broadcasts
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:05










    • @roaima what about wikipedia? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:14













    3












    3








    3






    An IP address can be assigned by a responsible device on the LAN, for example a Server or Router, using a called DHCP. (This is defined in RFC 2131 and extended in at least RFC 2132.)



    A device can also self-configure its address and avoid the need for DHCP. The ip command you have demonstrated does exactly this.



    Note that there are two main caveats in this scenario



    1. If you choose an address that is already actively in use by another device you will conflict traffic to both devices (yours and the other one).

    2. If you choose an address that is not part of the LAN subnet you will get no useful communication with any other device (for example, setting 192.168.1.1/24 on a network that expects 172.12.1.*/24).

    Finally, you asked why a server should want to self-configure. The quick answer here is that the DHCP server itself needs to know its own IP address before it can start serving requests. Other possibilities are network routers, and central authentication servers (a Domain Controller in the Active Directory world of Windows, or an LDAP server in the UNIX/Linux world).






    share|improve this answer














    An IP address can be assigned by a responsible device on the LAN, for example a Server or Router, using a called DHCP. (This is defined in RFC 2131 and extended in at least RFC 2132.)



    A device can also self-configure its address and avoid the need for DHCP. The ip command you have demonstrated does exactly this.



    Note that there are two main caveats in this scenario



    1. If you choose an address that is already actively in use by another device you will conflict traffic to both devices (yours and the other one).

    2. If you choose an address that is not part of the LAN subnet you will get no useful communication with any other device (for example, setting 192.168.1.1/24 on a network that expects 172.12.1.*/24).

    Finally, you asked why a server should want to self-configure. The quick answer here is that the DHCP server itself needs to know its own IP address before it can start serving requests. Other possibilities are network routers, and central authentication servers (a Domain Controller in the Active Directory world of Windows, or an LDAP server in the UNIX/Linux world).







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Dec 17 at 16:05

























    answered Dec 17 at 16:00









    roaima

    42.8k551116




    42.8k551116







    • 2




      In assign-by-hand networks the exact rules are specified by the network administrator and if you take an address you were not supposed to and break something, the administrator will look for you and bite you in half...
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:03






    • 2




      other fun reading - how ipv6 does it: stateless autoconfiguration (ip address is derived from the hardware address, guaranteed to be unique by the manufacturer), then you get the router by listening for router advertisement broadcasts
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:05










    • @roaima what about wikipedia? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:14












    • 2




      In assign-by-hand networks the exact rules are specified by the network administrator and if you take an address you were not supposed to and break something, the administrator will look for you and bite you in half...
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:03






    • 2




      other fun reading - how ipv6 does it: stateless autoconfiguration (ip address is derived from the hardware address, guaranteed to be unique by the manufacturer), then you get the router by listening for router advertisement broadcasts
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:05










    • @roaima what about wikipedia? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
      – jakub_d
      Dec 17 at 16:14







    2




    2




    In assign-by-hand networks the exact rules are specified by the network administrator and if you take an address you were not supposed to and break something, the administrator will look for you and bite you in half...
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:03




    In assign-by-hand networks the exact rules are specified by the network administrator and if you take an address you were not supposed to and break something, the administrator will look for you and bite you in half...
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:03




    2




    2




    other fun reading - how ipv6 does it: stateless autoconfiguration (ip address is derived from the hardware address, guaranteed to be unique by the manufacturer), then you get the router by listening for router advertisement broadcasts
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:05




    other fun reading - how ipv6 does it: stateless autoconfiguration (ip address is derived from the hardware address, guaranteed to be unique by the manufacturer), then you get the router by listening for router advertisement broadcasts
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:05












    @roaima what about wikipedia? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:14




    @roaima what about wikipedia? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
    – jakub_d
    Dec 17 at 16:14











    1














    Assigning oneself an IP address makes it easier to know what IP that computer has. Routers will do this by DHCP or a reserved DHCP address based on mac address.



    • Pure DHCP will assign any given unused address in a range of IP addresses this is not Ideal if you are running servers/services on a number of systems.


    • DHCP reserved IP address will stay with any given mac address. This is ideal but it is cumbersome having to write down or have the target computer online to add it to the reserved lists. Plus if the router dies you have to do that all over again.


    • Assigning your own IP address is great in that you can do so from the computer itself. It will stay with the computer if you move it within or to another network. The downside is that if your address is already taken the network interface won't go online until the address conflict is settled. However if you assign it an IP outside of the DHCP region and make a note not to assign other computers on the network that address and you will not have that problem.


    Most network pre-routing traffic hits all interfaces and/or the interface with the IP that is in the header responds. So yes packets will get to the eth0 interface but whether or not it responds or will operate on that network is dependant on if the IP and subnet mask are correct also the duplex full or half setting and such. Most default settings are good enough for most home or unsophisticated networks.






    share|improve this answer






















    • “Most network traffic hits all interfaces” — no. Broadcast traffic does, as does Ethernet traffic where the MAC-to-port assignment isn’t known, but the normal scenario is that network traffic only goes to its target (found using ARP).
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:10










    • Made the assumption that is was mainly prerouting traffic because we were talking pre-IP assignment will clarify. @StephenKitt
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 16:12










    • Linux kernel is quite happy to bring up an ipv4 interface without performing Duplicate Address Detection. It's what happens soon afterwards that is the problem :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 17:08










    • True, but it is not going to bring it up without an IP. Also, yes to the "what happens after" statement, IP conflicts, use as a DOS attack and the like. @sourcejedi
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 20:21










    • The distinction is that the interface will be up - contradicting your wording - and fighting the other computer. Whereas, it is also possible to do DAD first, and not contend for the address. IIUC that is the default for IPv6, and Windows may also use this approach on IPv4. So it is a real distinction and best not to be confused about :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 21:42
















    1














    Assigning oneself an IP address makes it easier to know what IP that computer has. Routers will do this by DHCP or a reserved DHCP address based on mac address.



    • Pure DHCP will assign any given unused address in a range of IP addresses this is not Ideal if you are running servers/services on a number of systems.


    • DHCP reserved IP address will stay with any given mac address. This is ideal but it is cumbersome having to write down or have the target computer online to add it to the reserved lists. Plus if the router dies you have to do that all over again.


    • Assigning your own IP address is great in that you can do so from the computer itself. It will stay with the computer if you move it within or to another network. The downside is that if your address is already taken the network interface won't go online until the address conflict is settled. However if you assign it an IP outside of the DHCP region and make a note not to assign other computers on the network that address and you will not have that problem.


    Most network pre-routing traffic hits all interfaces and/or the interface with the IP that is in the header responds. So yes packets will get to the eth0 interface but whether or not it responds or will operate on that network is dependant on if the IP and subnet mask are correct also the duplex full or half setting and such. Most default settings are good enough for most home or unsophisticated networks.






    share|improve this answer






















    • “Most network traffic hits all interfaces” — no. Broadcast traffic does, as does Ethernet traffic where the MAC-to-port assignment isn’t known, but the normal scenario is that network traffic only goes to its target (found using ARP).
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:10










    • Made the assumption that is was mainly prerouting traffic because we were talking pre-IP assignment will clarify. @StephenKitt
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 16:12










    • Linux kernel is quite happy to bring up an ipv4 interface without performing Duplicate Address Detection. It's what happens soon afterwards that is the problem :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 17:08










    • True, but it is not going to bring it up without an IP. Also, yes to the "what happens after" statement, IP conflicts, use as a DOS attack and the like. @sourcejedi
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 20:21










    • The distinction is that the interface will be up - contradicting your wording - and fighting the other computer. Whereas, it is also possible to do DAD first, and not contend for the address. IIUC that is the default for IPv6, and Windows may also use this approach on IPv4. So it is a real distinction and best not to be confused about :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 21:42














    1












    1








    1






    Assigning oneself an IP address makes it easier to know what IP that computer has. Routers will do this by DHCP or a reserved DHCP address based on mac address.



    • Pure DHCP will assign any given unused address in a range of IP addresses this is not Ideal if you are running servers/services on a number of systems.


    • DHCP reserved IP address will stay with any given mac address. This is ideal but it is cumbersome having to write down or have the target computer online to add it to the reserved lists. Plus if the router dies you have to do that all over again.


    • Assigning your own IP address is great in that you can do so from the computer itself. It will stay with the computer if you move it within or to another network. The downside is that if your address is already taken the network interface won't go online until the address conflict is settled. However if you assign it an IP outside of the DHCP region and make a note not to assign other computers on the network that address and you will not have that problem.


    Most network pre-routing traffic hits all interfaces and/or the interface with the IP that is in the header responds. So yes packets will get to the eth0 interface but whether or not it responds or will operate on that network is dependant on if the IP and subnet mask are correct also the duplex full or half setting and such. Most default settings are good enough for most home or unsophisticated networks.






    share|improve this answer














    Assigning oneself an IP address makes it easier to know what IP that computer has. Routers will do this by DHCP or a reserved DHCP address based on mac address.



    • Pure DHCP will assign any given unused address in a range of IP addresses this is not Ideal if you are running servers/services on a number of systems.


    • DHCP reserved IP address will stay with any given mac address. This is ideal but it is cumbersome having to write down or have the target computer online to add it to the reserved lists. Plus if the router dies you have to do that all over again.


    • Assigning your own IP address is great in that you can do so from the computer itself. It will stay with the computer if you move it within or to another network. The downside is that if your address is already taken the network interface won't go online until the address conflict is settled. However if you assign it an IP outside of the DHCP region and make a note not to assign other computers on the network that address and you will not have that problem.


    Most network pre-routing traffic hits all interfaces and/or the interface with the IP that is in the header responds. So yes packets will get to the eth0 interface but whether or not it responds or will operate on that network is dependant on if the IP and subnet mask are correct also the duplex full or half setting and such. Most default settings are good enough for most home or unsophisticated networks.







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Dec 18 at 19:00

























    answered Dec 17 at 16:09









    Michael Prokopec

    1,022116




    1,022116











    • “Most network traffic hits all interfaces” — no. Broadcast traffic does, as does Ethernet traffic where the MAC-to-port assignment isn’t known, but the normal scenario is that network traffic only goes to its target (found using ARP).
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:10










    • Made the assumption that is was mainly prerouting traffic because we were talking pre-IP assignment will clarify. @StephenKitt
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 16:12










    • Linux kernel is quite happy to bring up an ipv4 interface without performing Duplicate Address Detection. It's what happens soon afterwards that is the problem :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 17:08










    • True, but it is not going to bring it up without an IP. Also, yes to the "what happens after" statement, IP conflicts, use as a DOS attack and the like. @sourcejedi
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 20:21










    • The distinction is that the interface will be up - contradicting your wording - and fighting the other computer. Whereas, it is also possible to do DAD first, and not contend for the address. IIUC that is the default for IPv6, and Windows may also use this approach on IPv4. So it is a real distinction and best not to be confused about :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 21:42

















    • “Most network traffic hits all interfaces” — no. Broadcast traffic does, as does Ethernet traffic where the MAC-to-port assignment isn’t known, but the normal scenario is that network traffic only goes to its target (found using ARP).
      – Stephen Kitt
      Dec 17 at 16:10










    • Made the assumption that is was mainly prerouting traffic because we were talking pre-IP assignment will clarify. @StephenKitt
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 16:12










    • Linux kernel is quite happy to bring up an ipv4 interface without performing Duplicate Address Detection. It's what happens soon afterwards that is the problem :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 17:08










    • True, but it is not going to bring it up without an IP. Also, yes to the "what happens after" statement, IP conflicts, use as a DOS attack and the like. @sourcejedi
      – Michael Prokopec
      Dec 17 at 20:21










    • The distinction is that the interface will be up - contradicting your wording - and fighting the other computer. Whereas, it is also possible to do DAD first, and not contend for the address. IIUC that is the default for IPv6, and Windows may also use this approach on IPv4. So it is a real distinction and best not to be confused about :-).
      – sourcejedi
      Dec 17 at 21:42
















    “Most network traffic hits all interfaces” — no. Broadcast traffic does, as does Ethernet traffic where the MAC-to-port assignment isn’t known, but the normal scenario is that network traffic only goes to its target (found using ARP).
    – Stephen Kitt
    Dec 17 at 16:10




    “Most network traffic hits all interfaces” — no. Broadcast traffic does, as does Ethernet traffic where the MAC-to-port assignment isn’t known, but the normal scenario is that network traffic only goes to its target (found using ARP).
    – Stephen Kitt
    Dec 17 at 16:10












    Made the assumption that is was mainly prerouting traffic because we were talking pre-IP assignment will clarify. @StephenKitt
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 17 at 16:12




    Made the assumption that is was mainly prerouting traffic because we were talking pre-IP assignment will clarify. @StephenKitt
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 17 at 16:12












    Linux kernel is quite happy to bring up an ipv4 interface without performing Duplicate Address Detection. It's what happens soon afterwards that is the problem :-).
    – sourcejedi
    Dec 17 at 17:08




    Linux kernel is quite happy to bring up an ipv4 interface without performing Duplicate Address Detection. It's what happens soon afterwards that is the problem :-).
    – sourcejedi
    Dec 17 at 17:08












    True, but it is not going to bring it up without an IP. Also, yes to the "what happens after" statement, IP conflicts, use as a DOS attack and the like. @sourcejedi
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 17 at 20:21




    True, but it is not going to bring it up without an IP. Also, yes to the "what happens after" statement, IP conflicts, use as a DOS attack and the like. @sourcejedi
    – Michael Prokopec
    Dec 17 at 20:21












    The distinction is that the interface will be up - contradicting your wording - and fighting the other computer. Whereas, it is also possible to do DAD first, and not contend for the address. IIUC that is the default for IPv6, and Windows may also use this approach on IPv4. So it is a real distinction and best not to be confused about :-).
    – sourcejedi
    Dec 17 at 21:42





    The distinction is that the interface will be up - contradicting your wording - and fighting the other computer. Whereas, it is also possible to do DAD first, and not contend for the address. IIUC that is the default for IPv6, and Windows may also use this approach on IPv4. So it is a real distinction and best not to be confused about :-).
    – sourcejedi
    Dec 17 at 21:42












    1














    Actually, all hosts on a network do claim their own IP address themselves. Always!



    On the local network side a router has an IP address in a certain range (e.g.
    192.168.9.x) and if a router receives a packet of bytes for, say, 192.168.9.12,
    the router forwards it to its physical port that has the IP range
    (192.168.9.0/24) configured that matches the destination address. On that port, it broadcasts on the local network: "Which host
    claim IP address 192.168.9.12?"
    . And any host that has its NIC configured to
    have that specific IP address will answer, thus claiming the address. If all is
    well, there is exactly only one host that claims it, and the router will send
    the data packet to that host.



    This broadcasting "who has IP address x.x.x.x" and claiming it by replying,
    happens at a lower level and only works on a LAN (local network). This protocol
    is called "ARP" (Address Resolution Protocol)



    To put it in other words:



    The address the router sends the data package to, on this lower level, is
    actually the MAC address of the network interface card (NIC) of the host that
    claims the IP address. It does so by replying to the ARP-request broadcast by the router.



    So, it really is the host itself that decides what IP address it will
    claim to have on a network.



    On networks bigger than just a few hosts it will be a tedious task to keep
    track of what IP address is to be used by what host. And then imagine editing a file on all computers allowed on the network to only tell it its IP address!



    Also, if two (or more) hosts claim the same IP address, both will have a
    serious network problem! That is why it is very practical to have a central
    service on the local network that keeps track of which MAC address can use
    which IP address. This is called "DHCP" (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol), which can also be used to inform hosts
    of many other configuration parameters on the local network.



    The DHCP protocol also operates on the same lower level as the ARP protocol. When a hosts
    configures its NIC's (Network Interface Card), most often at boot time, it
    broadcasts "Which IP address can I use on this network?". This is done by DHCP
    client software. Since it's a broadcast, all hosts receive it, but only a DHCP
    server will answer, hopefully mentioning a unique IP address, its netmask, the
    gateway (router) address and possibly other things. The host keeps this in
    memory knowing it can safely claim this IP address on the network for some time.



    But this only works because the hosts cooperate by asking a DHCP-server for an IP address to use. Ultimately it is always the hosts who decide what IP address they'll claim....






    share|improve this answer



























      1














      Actually, all hosts on a network do claim their own IP address themselves. Always!



      On the local network side a router has an IP address in a certain range (e.g.
      192.168.9.x) and if a router receives a packet of bytes for, say, 192.168.9.12,
      the router forwards it to its physical port that has the IP range
      (192.168.9.0/24) configured that matches the destination address. On that port, it broadcasts on the local network: "Which host
      claim IP address 192.168.9.12?"
      . And any host that has its NIC configured to
      have that specific IP address will answer, thus claiming the address. If all is
      well, there is exactly only one host that claims it, and the router will send
      the data packet to that host.



      This broadcasting "who has IP address x.x.x.x" and claiming it by replying,
      happens at a lower level and only works on a LAN (local network). This protocol
      is called "ARP" (Address Resolution Protocol)



      To put it in other words:



      The address the router sends the data package to, on this lower level, is
      actually the MAC address of the network interface card (NIC) of the host that
      claims the IP address. It does so by replying to the ARP-request broadcast by the router.



      So, it really is the host itself that decides what IP address it will
      claim to have on a network.



      On networks bigger than just a few hosts it will be a tedious task to keep
      track of what IP address is to be used by what host. And then imagine editing a file on all computers allowed on the network to only tell it its IP address!



      Also, if two (or more) hosts claim the same IP address, both will have a
      serious network problem! That is why it is very practical to have a central
      service on the local network that keeps track of which MAC address can use
      which IP address. This is called "DHCP" (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol), which can also be used to inform hosts
      of many other configuration parameters on the local network.



      The DHCP protocol also operates on the same lower level as the ARP protocol. When a hosts
      configures its NIC's (Network Interface Card), most often at boot time, it
      broadcasts "Which IP address can I use on this network?". This is done by DHCP
      client software. Since it's a broadcast, all hosts receive it, but only a DHCP
      server will answer, hopefully mentioning a unique IP address, its netmask, the
      gateway (router) address and possibly other things. The host keeps this in
      memory knowing it can safely claim this IP address on the network for some time.



      But this only works because the hosts cooperate by asking a DHCP-server for an IP address to use. Ultimately it is always the hosts who decide what IP address they'll claim....






      share|improve this answer

























        1












        1








        1






        Actually, all hosts on a network do claim their own IP address themselves. Always!



        On the local network side a router has an IP address in a certain range (e.g.
        192.168.9.x) and if a router receives a packet of bytes for, say, 192.168.9.12,
        the router forwards it to its physical port that has the IP range
        (192.168.9.0/24) configured that matches the destination address. On that port, it broadcasts on the local network: "Which host
        claim IP address 192.168.9.12?"
        . And any host that has its NIC configured to
        have that specific IP address will answer, thus claiming the address. If all is
        well, there is exactly only one host that claims it, and the router will send
        the data packet to that host.



        This broadcasting "who has IP address x.x.x.x" and claiming it by replying,
        happens at a lower level and only works on a LAN (local network). This protocol
        is called "ARP" (Address Resolution Protocol)



        To put it in other words:



        The address the router sends the data package to, on this lower level, is
        actually the MAC address of the network interface card (NIC) of the host that
        claims the IP address. It does so by replying to the ARP-request broadcast by the router.



        So, it really is the host itself that decides what IP address it will
        claim to have on a network.



        On networks bigger than just a few hosts it will be a tedious task to keep
        track of what IP address is to be used by what host. And then imagine editing a file on all computers allowed on the network to only tell it its IP address!



        Also, if two (or more) hosts claim the same IP address, both will have a
        serious network problem! That is why it is very practical to have a central
        service on the local network that keeps track of which MAC address can use
        which IP address. This is called "DHCP" (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol), which can also be used to inform hosts
        of many other configuration parameters on the local network.



        The DHCP protocol also operates on the same lower level as the ARP protocol. When a hosts
        configures its NIC's (Network Interface Card), most often at boot time, it
        broadcasts "Which IP address can I use on this network?". This is done by DHCP
        client software. Since it's a broadcast, all hosts receive it, but only a DHCP
        server will answer, hopefully mentioning a unique IP address, its netmask, the
        gateway (router) address and possibly other things. The host keeps this in
        memory knowing it can safely claim this IP address on the network for some time.



        But this only works because the hosts cooperate by asking a DHCP-server for an IP address to use. Ultimately it is always the hosts who decide what IP address they'll claim....






        share|improve this answer














        Actually, all hosts on a network do claim their own IP address themselves. Always!



        On the local network side a router has an IP address in a certain range (e.g.
        192.168.9.x) and if a router receives a packet of bytes for, say, 192.168.9.12,
        the router forwards it to its physical port that has the IP range
        (192.168.9.0/24) configured that matches the destination address. On that port, it broadcasts on the local network: "Which host
        claim IP address 192.168.9.12?"
        . And any host that has its NIC configured to
        have that specific IP address will answer, thus claiming the address. If all is
        well, there is exactly only one host that claims it, and the router will send
        the data packet to that host.



        This broadcasting "who has IP address x.x.x.x" and claiming it by replying,
        happens at a lower level and only works on a LAN (local network). This protocol
        is called "ARP" (Address Resolution Protocol)



        To put it in other words:



        The address the router sends the data package to, on this lower level, is
        actually the MAC address of the network interface card (NIC) of the host that
        claims the IP address. It does so by replying to the ARP-request broadcast by the router.



        So, it really is the host itself that decides what IP address it will
        claim to have on a network.



        On networks bigger than just a few hosts it will be a tedious task to keep
        track of what IP address is to be used by what host. And then imagine editing a file on all computers allowed on the network to only tell it its IP address!



        Also, if two (or more) hosts claim the same IP address, both will have a
        serious network problem! That is why it is very practical to have a central
        service on the local network that keeps track of which MAC address can use
        which IP address. This is called "DHCP" (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol), which can also be used to inform hosts
        of many other configuration parameters on the local network.



        The DHCP protocol also operates on the same lower level as the ARP protocol. When a hosts
        configures its NIC's (Network Interface Card), most often at boot time, it
        broadcasts "Which IP address can I use on this network?". This is done by DHCP
        client software. Since it's a broadcast, all hosts receive it, but only a DHCP
        server will answer, hopefully mentioning a unique IP address, its netmask, the
        gateway (router) address and possibly other things. The host keeps this in
        memory knowing it can safely claim this IP address on the network for some time.



        But this only works because the hosts cooperate by asking a DHCP-server for an IP address to use. Ultimately it is always the hosts who decide what IP address they'll claim....







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Dec 19 at 8:27

























        answered Dec 17 at 17:00









        Hkoof

        1,07768




        1,07768



























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