How was -gn- pronounced in classical Latin?

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According to what I have learned, -gn- was commonly pronounced /ŋn/, e.g. [ˈmaŋ.nʊs] (magnus). However, this excerpt from Encyclopædia Britannica had me wondering:




The sound represented by ng (pronounced as in English sing and represented in the IPA by /ŋ/), written ng or gn, may not have had phonemic status (in spite of the pair annus/agnus ‘year’/‘lamb,’ in which /ŋ/ may be regarded as a positional variant of /g/).




Could it be that -gn- was in fact pronounced merely /ŋ/, so that you would get annus–agnus as [ˈan.nʊs]–[ˈaŋ[ː]ʊs]? ([ː] added due to my uncertainty)? Were this the case, then I suppose one would be unable to tell the difference between e.g. *angus and agnus, so I am now left perplexed.



───



P. S.: I am unsure whether or not phonetic specificity should be added to the tags. (If so, velar and nasal should be added.) I thought it wise to inform of this.










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  • Related: How do we know how gn was pronounced in Classical Latin?, Do we know how 'ng' was pronounced in classical Latin?
    – sumelic
    2 hours ago















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1












According to what I have learned, -gn- was commonly pronounced /ŋn/, e.g. [ˈmaŋ.nʊs] (magnus). However, this excerpt from Encyclopædia Britannica had me wondering:




The sound represented by ng (pronounced as in English sing and represented in the IPA by /ŋ/), written ng or gn, may not have had phonemic status (in spite of the pair annus/agnus ‘year’/‘lamb,’ in which /ŋ/ may be regarded as a positional variant of /g/).




Could it be that -gn- was in fact pronounced merely /ŋ/, so that you would get annus–agnus as [ˈan.nʊs]–[ˈaŋ[ː]ʊs]? ([ː] added due to my uncertainty)? Were this the case, then I suppose one would be unable to tell the difference between e.g. *angus and agnus, so I am now left perplexed.



───



P. S.: I am unsure whether or not phonetic specificity should be added to the tags. (If so, velar and nasal should be added.) I thought it wise to inform of this.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Canned Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • Related: How do we know how gn was pronounced in Classical Latin?, Do we know how 'ng' was pronounced in classical Latin?
    – sumelic
    2 hours ago













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1





According to what I have learned, -gn- was commonly pronounced /ŋn/, e.g. [ˈmaŋ.nʊs] (magnus). However, this excerpt from Encyclopædia Britannica had me wondering:




The sound represented by ng (pronounced as in English sing and represented in the IPA by /ŋ/), written ng or gn, may not have had phonemic status (in spite of the pair annus/agnus ‘year’/‘lamb,’ in which /ŋ/ may be regarded as a positional variant of /g/).




Could it be that -gn- was in fact pronounced merely /ŋ/, so that you would get annus–agnus as [ˈan.nʊs]–[ˈaŋ[ː]ʊs]? ([ː] added due to my uncertainty)? Were this the case, then I suppose one would be unable to tell the difference between e.g. *angus and agnus, so I am now left perplexed.



───



P. S.: I am unsure whether or not phonetic specificity should be added to the tags. (If so, velar and nasal should be added.) I thought it wise to inform of this.










share|improve this question







New contributor




Canned Man is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











According to what I have learned, -gn- was commonly pronounced /ŋn/, e.g. [ˈmaŋ.nʊs] (magnus). However, this excerpt from Encyclopædia Britannica had me wondering:




The sound represented by ng (pronounced as in English sing and represented in the IPA by /ŋ/), written ng or gn, may not have had phonemic status (in spite of the pair annus/agnus ‘year’/‘lamb,’ in which /ŋ/ may be regarded as a positional variant of /g/).




Could it be that -gn- was in fact pronounced merely /ŋ/, so that you would get annus–agnus as [ˈan.nʊs]–[ˈaŋ[ː]ʊs]? ([ː] added due to my uncertainty)? Were this the case, then I suppose one would be unable to tell the difference between e.g. *angus and agnus, so I am now left perplexed.



───



P. S.: I am unsure whether or not phonetic specificity should be added to the tags. (If so, velar and nasal should be added.) I thought it wise to inform of this.







classical-latin pronunciation vulgar-latin






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  • Related: How do we know how gn was pronounced in Classical Latin?, Do we know how 'ng' was pronounced in classical Latin?
    – sumelic
    2 hours ago

















  • Related: How do we know how gn was pronounced in Classical Latin?, Do we know how 'ng' was pronounced in classical Latin?
    – sumelic
    2 hours ago
















Related: How do we know how gn was pronounced in Classical Latin?, Do we know how 'ng' was pronounced in classical Latin?
– sumelic
2 hours ago





Related: How do we know how gn was pronounced in Classical Latin?, Do we know how 'ng' was pronounced in classical Latin?
– sumelic
2 hours ago











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I think the wording of the Encyclopædia Britannica article is unclear, leading to misunderstanding. I don't think they mean that Latin "gn" could represent [ŋ(ː)] rather than [ŋn], but I'll admit the wording is confusing.



The point they're trying to make (I think) is that on the face of it, if [ŋ] can appear before a nasal consonant and [n], it looks like it should be regarded as a separate phoneme, but maybe in "ng", pronounced [ŋg], it can be analysed phonemically as /ng/, but in "gn", pronounced [ŋn], it can be analysed phonemically as /gn/.






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    I think the wording of the Encyclopædia Britannica article is unclear, leading to misunderstanding. I don't think they mean that Latin "gn" could represent [ŋ(ː)] rather than [ŋn], but I'll admit the wording is confusing.



    The point they're trying to make (I think) is that on the face of it, if [ŋ] can appear before a nasal consonant and [n], it looks like it should be regarded as a separate phoneme, but maybe in "ng", pronounced [ŋg], it can be analysed phonemically as /ng/, but in "gn", pronounced [ŋn], it can be analysed phonemically as /gn/.






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      up vote
      2
      down vote













      I think the wording of the Encyclopædia Britannica article is unclear, leading to misunderstanding. I don't think they mean that Latin "gn" could represent [ŋ(ː)] rather than [ŋn], but I'll admit the wording is confusing.



      The point they're trying to make (I think) is that on the face of it, if [ŋ] can appear before a nasal consonant and [n], it looks like it should be regarded as a separate phoneme, but maybe in "ng", pronounced [ŋg], it can be analysed phonemically as /ng/, but in "gn", pronounced [ŋn], it can be analysed phonemically as /gn/.






      share|improve this answer
























        up vote
        2
        down vote










        up vote
        2
        down vote









        I think the wording of the Encyclopædia Britannica article is unclear, leading to misunderstanding. I don't think they mean that Latin "gn" could represent [ŋ(ː)] rather than [ŋn], but I'll admit the wording is confusing.



        The point they're trying to make (I think) is that on the face of it, if [ŋ] can appear before a nasal consonant and [n], it looks like it should be regarded as a separate phoneme, but maybe in "ng", pronounced [ŋg], it can be analysed phonemically as /ng/, but in "gn", pronounced [ŋn], it can be analysed phonemically as /gn/.






        share|improve this answer














        I think the wording of the Encyclopædia Britannica article is unclear, leading to misunderstanding. I don't think they mean that Latin "gn" could represent [ŋ(ː)] rather than [ŋn], but I'll admit the wording is confusing.



        The point they're trying to make (I think) is that on the face of it, if [ŋ] can appear before a nasal consonant and [n], it looks like it should be regarded as a separate phoneme, but maybe in "ng", pronounced [ŋg], it can be analysed phonemically as /ng/, but in "gn", pronounced [ŋn], it can be analysed phonemically as /gn/.







        share|improve this answer














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