Transatlantic gray market Commodore PETs and 220V/50Hz vs. 115/60Hz

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP











up vote
3
down vote

favorite












In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there. Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic, much to Commodore's annoyance.



Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz. Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?), the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power. How could an American PET work in Europe?










share|improve this question



























    up vote
    3
    down vote

    favorite












    In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there. Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic, much to Commodore's annoyance.



    Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz. Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?), the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power. How could an American PET work in Europe?










    share|improve this question

























      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      3
      down vote

      favorite











      In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there. Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic, much to Commodore's annoyance.



      Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz. Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?), the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power. How could an American PET work in Europe?










      share|improve this question















      In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there. Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic, much to Commodore's annoyance.



      Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz. Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?), the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power. How could an American PET work in Europe?







      history commodore power commodore-pet






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Aug 31 at 23:59









      Raffzahn

      35.1k478139




      35.1k478139










      asked Aug 28 at 22:59









      rwallace

      7,15223197




      7,15223197




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted











          In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there.




          Let's say market structure was different.




          Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic,




          Jup, and as well as many customers tried to buy direct. Here payment was the biggest hurdle, but there was a way to pay via the post office - but that's a different story. Well, and haggle with customs - but that's another :))




          Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz.




          First and most simple solution was using a transformer (like this). Not cheap, but still saving money - and usually cheaper than a new PS - at least when only converting a few units.




          Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?),




          Such 1:2 transformers are stock items, so no need to worry about the PS. The lower frequency doesn't matter as the result is way within tolerances.




          the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power.




          Why? It derives its timing from the video signal the PET supplies, which in turn is taken from the oscilators, not in any way taken from or synchronized by mains. The video signal is still the same with 50 Hz power, thus no adjustment needed.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 2




            Follow-up question, electronics dunce as ever: does the screen actually receive AC power? If so, would a new power supply actually do the trick? The possible cause of confusion, if my question is stupid: don't computer PSUs convert AC to DC, so wouldn't it be downstream or parallel to the monitor feed? I'm curious as to whether you'd end up with the transformer somewhere in the mix no matter what you did.
            – Tommy
            Aug 29 at 3:22






          • 2




            @Tommy Well, he receives AC, but not mains. 15V (21V for 12" screen) are fed into the video board from the transformer and right away rectified and turned into 12V DC, which then are used to handle everything within. -- The 1:2 Transformer mentioned is to be connected prior to the computers inlet. -- And no, what a PSU does depends on the comuter, but there is no need for the CRT to receive AC, and especially not mains.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:20






          • 1




            @Tommy See [here] (zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/2001/…) for the PET video board - 15V AC is fed into connection 1/2. And see here for a description of the transformer. This is for an 8032, but it's the same for all PET.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:24






          • 1




            Any city vaguely near a military base with US troops (so, any reasonably-sized city in western Europe) had an electronics store with transformers designed to run US equipment on 240V. In the early 1990's in Amsterdam I found a pile at an electronics store (all kinds of random parts). (Although I bought it as I was moving back to the US so I could rewire it to run 240V equipment on 120V).
            – Jon Custer
            Aug 29 at 13:11










          • 240V would be UK, wouldn't it? :))
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 13:13










          Your Answer







          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "648"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: false,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );













           

          draft saved


          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f7410%2ftransatlantic-gray-market-commodore-pets-and-220v-50hz-vs-115-60hz%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest






























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted











          In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there.




          Let's say market structure was different.




          Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic,




          Jup, and as well as many customers tried to buy direct. Here payment was the biggest hurdle, but there was a way to pay via the post office - but that's a different story. Well, and haggle with customs - but that's another :))




          Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz.




          First and most simple solution was using a transformer (like this). Not cheap, but still saving money - and usually cheaper than a new PS - at least when only converting a few units.




          Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?),




          Such 1:2 transformers are stock items, so no need to worry about the PS. The lower frequency doesn't matter as the result is way within tolerances.




          the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power.




          Why? It derives its timing from the video signal the PET supplies, which in turn is taken from the oscilators, not in any way taken from or synchronized by mains. The video signal is still the same with 50 Hz power, thus no adjustment needed.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 2




            Follow-up question, electronics dunce as ever: does the screen actually receive AC power? If so, would a new power supply actually do the trick? The possible cause of confusion, if my question is stupid: don't computer PSUs convert AC to DC, so wouldn't it be downstream or parallel to the monitor feed? I'm curious as to whether you'd end up with the transformer somewhere in the mix no matter what you did.
            – Tommy
            Aug 29 at 3:22






          • 2




            @Tommy Well, he receives AC, but not mains. 15V (21V for 12" screen) are fed into the video board from the transformer and right away rectified and turned into 12V DC, which then are used to handle everything within. -- The 1:2 Transformer mentioned is to be connected prior to the computers inlet. -- And no, what a PSU does depends on the comuter, but there is no need for the CRT to receive AC, and especially not mains.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:20






          • 1




            @Tommy See [here] (zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/2001/…) for the PET video board - 15V AC is fed into connection 1/2. And see here for a description of the transformer. This is for an 8032, but it's the same for all PET.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:24






          • 1




            Any city vaguely near a military base with US troops (so, any reasonably-sized city in western Europe) had an electronics store with transformers designed to run US equipment on 240V. In the early 1990's in Amsterdam I found a pile at an electronics store (all kinds of random parts). (Although I bought it as I was moving back to the US so I could rewire it to run 240V equipment on 120V).
            – Jon Custer
            Aug 29 at 13:11










          • 240V would be UK, wouldn't it? :))
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 13:13














          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted











          In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there.




          Let's say market structure was different.




          Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic,




          Jup, and as well as many customers tried to buy direct. Here payment was the biggest hurdle, but there was a way to pay via the post office - but that's a different story. Well, and haggle with customs - but that's another :))




          Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz.




          First and most simple solution was using a transformer (like this). Not cheap, but still saving money - and usually cheaper than a new PS - at least when only converting a few units.




          Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?),




          Such 1:2 transformers are stock items, so no need to worry about the PS. The lower frequency doesn't matter as the result is way within tolerances.




          the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power.




          Why? It derives its timing from the video signal the PET supplies, which in turn is taken from the oscilators, not in any way taken from or synchronized by mains. The video signal is still the same with 50 Hz power, thus no adjustment needed.






          share|improve this answer


















          • 2




            Follow-up question, electronics dunce as ever: does the screen actually receive AC power? If so, would a new power supply actually do the trick? The possible cause of confusion, if my question is stupid: don't computer PSUs convert AC to DC, so wouldn't it be downstream or parallel to the monitor feed? I'm curious as to whether you'd end up with the transformer somewhere in the mix no matter what you did.
            – Tommy
            Aug 29 at 3:22






          • 2




            @Tommy Well, he receives AC, but not mains. 15V (21V for 12" screen) are fed into the video board from the transformer and right away rectified and turned into 12V DC, which then are used to handle everything within. -- The 1:2 Transformer mentioned is to be connected prior to the computers inlet. -- And no, what a PSU does depends on the comuter, but there is no need for the CRT to receive AC, and especially not mains.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:20






          • 1




            @Tommy See [here] (zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/2001/…) for the PET video board - 15V AC is fed into connection 1/2. And see here for a description of the transformer. This is for an 8032, but it's the same for all PET.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:24






          • 1




            Any city vaguely near a military base with US troops (so, any reasonably-sized city in western Europe) had an electronics store with transformers designed to run US equipment on 240V. In the early 1990's in Amsterdam I found a pile at an electronics store (all kinds of random parts). (Although I bought it as I was moving back to the US so I could rewire it to run 240V equipment on 120V).
            – Jon Custer
            Aug 29 at 13:11










          • 240V would be UK, wouldn't it? :))
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 13:13












          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          6
          down vote



          accepted







          In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there.




          Let's say market structure was different.




          Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic,




          Jup, and as well as many customers tried to buy direct. Here payment was the biggest hurdle, but there was a way to pay via the post office - but that's a different story. Well, and haggle with customs - but that's another :))




          Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz.




          First and most simple solution was using a transformer (like this). Not cheap, but still saving money - and usually cheaper than a new PS - at least when only converting a few units.




          Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?),




          Such 1:2 transformers are stock items, so no need to worry about the PS. The lower frequency doesn't matter as the result is way within tolerances.




          the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power.




          Why? It derives its timing from the video signal the PET supplies, which in turn is taken from the oscilators, not in any way taken from or synchronized by mains. The video signal is still the same with 50 Hz power, thus no adjustment needed.






          share|improve this answer















          In the late seventies, Commodore sold the PET in Europe at a considerably higher price than in America; they could get away with this because there was less competition there.




          Let's say market structure was different.




          Some of the American dealers took advantage of this by surreptitiously shipping PETs across the Atlantic,




          Jup, and as well as many customers tried to buy direct. Here payment was the biggest hurdle, but there was a way to pay via the post office - but that's a different story. Well, and haggle with customs - but that's another :))




          Technically, how did this work? The PET power supply was built into the case; it had a single power cable that expected ~115 volt (?) 60 Hz, not 220-240 volt 50 Hz.




          First and most simple solution was using a transformer (like this). Not cheap, but still saving money - and usually cheaper than a new PS - at least when only converting a few units.




          Even if you took out the power supply and replaced it with one suitable for Europe (was it an off-the-shelf item?),




          Such 1:2 transformers are stock items, so no need to worry about the PS. The lower frequency doesn't matter as the result is way within tolerances.




          the 2001's monitor was a picture tube from a black-and-white TV set, which would presumably have been expecting 60 Hz power.




          Why? It derives its timing from the video signal the PET supplies, which in turn is taken from the oscilators, not in any way taken from or synchronized by mains. The video signal is still the same with 50 Hz power, thus no adjustment needed.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Aug 31 at 23:57

























          answered Aug 28 at 23:24









          Raffzahn

          35.1k478139




          35.1k478139







          • 2




            Follow-up question, electronics dunce as ever: does the screen actually receive AC power? If so, would a new power supply actually do the trick? The possible cause of confusion, if my question is stupid: don't computer PSUs convert AC to DC, so wouldn't it be downstream or parallel to the monitor feed? I'm curious as to whether you'd end up with the transformer somewhere in the mix no matter what you did.
            – Tommy
            Aug 29 at 3:22






          • 2




            @Tommy Well, he receives AC, but not mains. 15V (21V for 12" screen) are fed into the video board from the transformer and right away rectified and turned into 12V DC, which then are used to handle everything within. -- The 1:2 Transformer mentioned is to be connected prior to the computers inlet. -- And no, what a PSU does depends on the comuter, but there is no need for the CRT to receive AC, and especially not mains.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:20






          • 1




            @Tommy See [here] (zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/2001/…) for the PET video board - 15V AC is fed into connection 1/2. And see here for a description of the transformer. This is for an 8032, but it's the same for all PET.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:24






          • 1




            Any city vaguely near a military base with US troops (so, any reasonably-sized city in western Europe) had an electronics store with transformers designed to run US equipment on 240V. In the early 1990's in Amsterdam I found a pile at an electronics store (all kinds of random parts). (Although I bought it as I was moving back to the US so I could rewire it to run 240V equipment on 120V).
            – Jon Custer
            Aug 29 at 13:11










          • 240V would be UK, wouldn't it? :))
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 13:13












          • 2




            Follow-up question, electronics dunce as ever: does the screen actually receive AC power? If so, would a new power supply actually do the trick? The possible cause of confusion, if my question is stupid: don't computer PSUs convert AC to DC, so wouldn't it be downstream or parallel to the monitor feed? I'm curious as to whether you'd end up with the transformer somewhere in the mix no matter what you did.
            – Tommy
            Aug 29 at 3:22






          • 2




            @Tommy Well, he receives AC, but not mains. 15V (21V for 12" screen) are fed into the video board from the transformer and right away rectified and turned into 12V DC, which then are used to handle everything within. -- The 1:2 Transformer mentioned is to be connected prior to the computers inlet. -- And no, what a PSU does depends on the comuter, but there is no need for the CRT to receive AC, and especially not mains.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:20






          • 1




            @Tommy See [here] (zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/2001/…) for the PET video board - 15V AC is fed into connection 1/2. And see here for a description of the transformer. This is for an 8032, but it's the same for all PET.
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 10:24






          • 1




            Any city vaguely near a military base with US troops (so, any reasonably-sized city in western Europe) had an electronics store with transformers designed to run US equipment on 240V. In the early 1990's in Amsterdam I found a pile at an electronics store (all kinds of random parts). (Although I bought it as I was moving back to the US so I could rewire it to run 240V equipment on 120V).
            – Jon Custer
            Aug 29 at 13:11










          • 240V would be UK, wouldn't it? :))
            – Raffzahn
            Aug 29 at 13:13







          2




          2




          Follow-up question, electronics dunce as ever: does the screen actually receive AC power? If so, would a new power supply actually do the trick? The possible cause of confusion, if my question is stupid: don't computer PSUs convert AC to DC, so wouldn't it be downstream or parallel to the monitor feed? I'm curious as to whether you'd end up with the transformer somewhere in the mix no matter what you did.
          – Tommy
          Aug 29 at 3:22




          Follow-up question, electronics dunce as ever: does the screen actually receive AC power? If so, would a new power supply actually do the trick? The possible cause of confusion, if my question is stupid: don't computer PSUs convert AC to DC, so wouldn't it be downstream or parallel to the monitor feed? I'm curious as to whether you'd end up with the transformer somewhere in the mix no matter what you did.
          – Tommy
          Aug 29 at 3:22




          2




          2




          @Tommy Well, he receives AC, but not mains. 15V (21V for 12" screen) are fed into the video board from the transformer and right away rectified and turned into 12V DC, which then are used to handle everything within. -- The 1:2 Transformer mentioned is to be connected prior to the computers inlet. -- And no, what a PSU does depends on the comuter, but there is no need for the CRT to receive AC, and especially not mains.
          – Raffzahn
          Aug 29 at 10:20




          @Tommy Well, he receives AC, but not mains. 15V (21V for 12" screen) are fed into the video board from the transformer and right away rectified and turned into 12V DC, which then are used to handle everything within. -- The 1:2 Transformer mentioned is to be connected prior to the computers inlet. -- And no, what a PSU does depends on the comuter, but there is no need for the CRT to receive AC, and especially not mains.
          – Raffzahn
          Aug 29 at 10:20




          1




          1




          @Tommy See [here] (zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/2001/…) for the PET video board - 15V AC is fed into connection 1/2. And see here for a description of the transformer. This is for an 8032, but it's the same for all PET.
          – Raffzahn
          Aug 29 at 10:24




          @Tommy See [here] (zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/2001/…) for the PET video board - 15V AC is fed into connection 1/2. And see here for a description of the transformer. This is for an 8032, but it's the same for all PET.
          – Raffzahn
          Aug 29 at 10:24




          1




          1




          Any city vaguely near a military base with US troops (so, any reasonably-sized city in western Europe) had an electronics store with transformers designed to run US equipment on 240V. In the early 1990's in Amsterdam I found a pile at an electronics store (all kinds of random parts). (Although I bought it as I was moving back to the US so I could rewire it to run 240V equipment on 120V).
          – Jon Custer
          Aug 29 at 13:11




          Any city vaguely near a military base with US troops (so, any reasonably-sized city in western Europe) had an electronics store with transformers designed to run US equipment on 240V. In the early 1990's in Amsterdam I found a pile at an electronics store (all kinds of random parts). (Although I bought it as I was moving back to the US so I could rewire it to run 240V equipment on 120V).
          – Jon Custer
          Aug 29 at 13:11












          240V would be UK, wouldn't it? :))
          – Raffzahn
          Aug 29 at 13:13




          240V would be UK, wouldn't it? :))
          – Raffzahn
          Aug 29 at 13:13

















           

          draft saved


          draft discarded















































           


          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fretrocomputing.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f7410%2ftransatlantic-gray-market-commodore-pets-and-220v-50hz-vs-115-60hz%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest













































































          Popular posts from this blog

          How to check contact read email or not when send email to Individual?

          Displaying single band from multi-band raster using QGIS

          How many registers does an x86_64 CPU actually have?