why a subspace is closed?
Clash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP
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Let $E$ be $K-$vector space with a norm $|cdot|$, and $F$ a subspace with dimension $n$. Show that $F$ is a closed set .
I am trying to show that any convergent sequence of elements $(x_n)_n in N$ of $F$ converge to an element $x in F$.
This means I need to show that $||x_n-x|| rightarrow 0$
I see that like a distance which is attended by the fuction $y rightarrow ||x-y||$ .
How can I show that $ x in F$?
I have been reading a solution which I don't really understand the intuition behind it :
let $x$ be in $E$ and let $B=$
after showing that its a compact, they tried to show that $inf_y in F(||x-y||)= lambda $ exists.
by definition of $lambda$ it is the distance between $x$ and $F$
functional-analysis normed-spaces topological-vector-spaces
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|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $E$ be $K-$vector space with a norm $|cdot|$, and $F$ a subspace with dimension $n$. Show that $F$ is a closed set .
I am trying to show that any convergent sequence of elements $(x_n)_n in N$ of $F$ converge to an element $x in F$.
This means I need to show that $||x_n-x|| rightarrow 0$
I see that like a distance which is attended by the fuction $y rightarrow ||x-y||$ .
How can I show that $ x in F$?
I have been reading a solution which I don't really understand the intuition behind it :
let $x$ be in $E$ and let $B=$
after showing that its a compact, they tried to show that $inf_y in F(||x-y||)= lambda $ exists.
by definition of $lambda$ it is the distance between $x$ and $F$
functional-analysis normed-spaces topological-vector-spaces
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1
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I am voting to close, because it is not at all clear to me what you are asking. Are you asking for the intuition behind closed sets, or are you asking how to show that a finite dimensional subspace is closed?
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– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:44
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@K.Power actually I am looking for both
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– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:46
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If it is the latter then you will find such a question has been asked before on this site. I should also point out that you need to show that any convergent sequence in $F$ has its limit in $F$.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:47
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@K.Power I've been searching but I dont have any idea about the methode they using
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:48
$begingroup$
As these are very distinct questions you should definitely ask these in two separate posts.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:50
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
Let $E$ be $K-$vector space with a norm $|cdot|$, and $F$ a subspace with dimension $n$. Show that $F$ is a closed set .
I am trying to show that any convergent sequence of elements $(x_n)_n in N$ of $F$ converge to an element $x in F$.
This means I need to show that $||x_n-x|| rightarrow 0$
I see that like a distance which is attended by the fuction $y rightarrow ||x-y||$ .
How can I show that $ x in F$?
I have been reading a solution which I don't really understand the intuition behind it :
let $x$ be in $E$ and let $B=$
after showing that its a compact, they tried to show that $inf_y in F(||x-y||)= lambda $ exists.
by definition of $lambda$ it is the distance between $x$ and $F$
functional-analysis normed-spaces topological-vector-spaces
$endgroup$
Let $E$ be $K-$vector space with a norm $|cdot|$, and $F$ a subspace with dimension $n$. Show that $F$ is a closed set .
I am trying to show that any convergent sequence of elements $(x_n)_n in N$ of $F$ converge to an element $x in F$.
This means I need to show that $||x_n-x|| rightarrow 0$
I see that like a distance which is attended by the fuction $y rightarrow ||x-y||$ .
How can I show that $ x in F$?
I have been reading a solution which I don't really understand the intuition behind it :
let $x$ be in $E$ and let $B=$
after showing that its a compact, they tried to show that $inf_y in F(||x-y||)= lambda $ exists.
by definition of $lambda$ it is the distance between $x$ and $F$
functional-analysis normed-spaces topological-vector-spaces
functional-analysis normed-spaces topological-vector-spaces
edited Mar 2 at 21:55
K.Power
3,630926
3,630926
asked Mar 2 at 0:38
user515918user515918
787
787
1
$begingroup$
I am voting to close, because it is not at all clear to me what you are asking. Are you asking for the intuition behind closed sets, or are you asking how to show that a finite dimensional subspace is closed?
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:44
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@K.Power actually I am looking for both
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:46
$begingroup$
If it is the latter then you will find such a question has been asked before on this site. I should also point out that you need to show that any convergent sequence in $F$ has its limit in $F$.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:47
$begingroup$
@K.Power I've been searching but I dont have any idea about the methode they using
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:48
$begingroup$
As these are very distinct questions you should definitely ask these in two separate posts.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:50
|
show 3 more comments
1
$begingroup$
I am voting to close, because it is not at all clear to me what you are asking. Are you asking for the intuition behind closed sets, or are you asking how to show that a finite dimensional subspace is closed?
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:44
$begingroup$
@K.Power actually I am looking for both
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:46
$begingroup$
If it is the latter then you will find such a question has been asked before on this site. I should also point out that you need to show that any convergent sequence in $F$ has its limit in $F$.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:47
$begingroup$
@K.Power I've been searching but I dont have any idea about the methode they using
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:48
$begingroup$
As these are very distinct questions you should definitely ask these in two separate posts.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:50
1
1
$begingroup$
I am voting to close, because it is not at all clear to me what you are asking. Are you asking for the intuition behind closed sets, or are you asking how to show that a finite dimensional subspace is closed?
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:44
$begingroup$
I am voting to close, because it is not at all clear to me what you are asking. Are you asking for the intuition behind closed sets, or are you asking how to show that a finite dimensional subspace is closed?
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:44
$begingroup$
@K.Power actually I am looking for both
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:46
$begingroup$
@K.Power actually I am looking for both
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:46
$begingroup$
If it is the latter then you will find such a question has been asked before on this site. I should also point out that you need to show that any convergent sequence in $F$ has its limit in $F$.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:47
$begingroup$
If it is the latter then you will find such a question has been asked before on this site. I should also point out that you need to show that any convergent sequence in $F$ has its limit in $F$.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:47
$begingroup$
@K.Power I've been searching but I dont have any idea about the methode they using
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:48
$begingroup$
@K.Power I've been searching but I dont have any idea about the methode they using
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:48
$begingroup$
As these are very distinct questions you should definitely ask these in two separate posts.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:50
$begingroup$
As these are very distinct questions you should definitely ask these in two separate posts.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:50
|
show 3 more comments
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
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Let $xin E$ be the limit of a sequence $(x_n)_n$ where $x_nin F$ for all $n$. If $x=0$, nothing needs to be shown.
Once you know that $B:=,yin Fmid $ is compact, the continuous(!) map $BtoBbb R$, $ymapsto |y-x|$ attains its minimum at some $y_0in Bsubset F$. As $x_nto x$ and $|x|>0$, almost all $x_n$ are $in B$. Then from $|y_0-x|le |x_n-x|to 0$, we conclude $|y_0-x|=0$ and finally $x=y_0in F$.
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another approach will be to show that a finite-dimensional normed space (over $mathbb R$ or $mathbb C$ or indeed over any complete normed field) is complete. Then conclude that it is closed in a larger normed space.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint:
Use that all norms on $F$ are equivalent to show that all bounded subsets of $F$ which are closed in $F$ are compact.
Show that your sequence is contained in a bounded subset of $F$ which is closed in $F$.
Find a subsequence which has a limit in $F$. What is the limit?
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add a comment |
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To elaborate a bit on GEdgar's suggestion: We know that $F$ has a basis $e_1,dots,e_n$. Using Bolzano-Weierstrass you can show that we have the existence of some $r>0$ such that for any choice of scalars $c_1,dots,c_nin K$ we have
$$|sum_i=1^nc_ie_i|geq rsum_i=1^n|c_i|.$$
Using this you can show that $F$ is complete. Consider a cauchy sequence $(x_m)subset F$. We know that each $x_m=sum_i=1^nc_i^(m)e_i$. Using the inequality above and the cauchyness of $(x_m)$ try and show that each sequence of scalars $(c_i^(m))$ is also Cauchy. As $K$ is complete we know that these sequences each have a limit in $K$. Show that $(x_m)$ converges to the element of $F$ defined by these scalar limits.
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add a comment |
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I think K.Power's answer is the best elementary proof but if you don't know the inequality used in his/her answer, you can argue successfully without it:
Let $F=textspane^1,cdots, e^n,$ where the $ langle e^i,e^jrangle =delta^ij; 1le ile n.$
Now, suppose $Fsupset (x_n)to xin E$. Then, $x_i=a^i_1e^1+cdots +a^i_ne^n; 1le ile n.$
Of course, $(x_n)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $E$, so since
$|x_m-x_k|^2=|(a^m_1-a^k_1)e^1+cdots (a^m_n-a^k_n)e^n|^2=|a^m_1-a^k_1|^2+cdots +|a^m_n-a^k_n|^2$
(because the $(e^i)$ are orthogonal), each $(a_i^m)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $K$.
Assuming now that $K$ is complete, we have $a^m_ito a_iin K; 1le ile n$.
To finish, consider the vector $x=a_1e^1+cdots +a_ne^n$.
Clearly, $xin F$ and now, another application of the triangle inequality shows that
$|x-x_n|to 0$, from which it follows that $x_nto xin F$
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Are you sure that you can just use the triangle inequality to show that each $(a_i^m)$ is Cauchy? You need to show that $|a_i^m-a_i^k|leq C|x_m-x_k|$ to use that $(x_m)$ is Cauchy. I think you need something like the inequality I used to show that.
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– K.Power
Mar 2 at 12:01
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@K.Power: I assumed wlog orthogonality of the $e^i$ so I think the claim is ok.Or I guess you could use the max norm to avoid the problem entirely.
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– Matematleta
Mar 2 at 15:58
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Ahh yes that's a neat argument
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– K.Power
Mar 2 at 19:56
add a comment |
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You haven't correctly stated what you need to prove -- you need to show that any sequence of elements of $F$ that converges in $E$ in fact has its limit in $F$.
But I think it may be easier to show that the complement of F is open. Consider an element $x in E setminus F$. It has a distance $gamma gt 0$ from $F$, given by $||z||$, where $x = y+z$ with $y in F$ and $z perp F$. Then $B(x, gamma /2) subseteq E setminus F$ so $x$ is in the interior of $E setminus F$. We chose $x$ arbitrarily, so this proves $E setminus F$ is open so that $F$ is closed.
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how can we write x=y+z ? E is not an euclidien space to talk about the orthogonal of a subspace !
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– user515918
Mar 2 at 1:14
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Aren't you assuming that the OP knows that finite dimensional subspaces are complemented? This implies they already know that they are closed.
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– K.Power
Mar 2 at 1:23
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@K.Power $F + x$ is finite dimensional so you can work there to come up with $z$.
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– Robert Shore
Mar 2 at 16:21
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Do you mind elaborating? I still don't see how you can talk about $zperp F$ and knowing that $d(F,x)>0$ without knowing that $F$ is complemented.
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– K.Power
Mar 2 at 20:57
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Not sure what you mean by “complemented.” I don’t recall the term from when I last studied linear algebra roughly three decades ago. But since $F$ is finite-dimensional, fix a basis for $F$, and for any $x notin F$ and use the basis created by $F+x$ to create an inner product, and therefore a norm, that’s equivalent to the existing norm.
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– Robert Shore
Mar 3 at 3:05
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show 1 more comment
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Let $xin E$ be the limit of a sequence $(x_n)_n$ where $x_nin F$ for all $n$. If $x=0$, nothing needs to be shown.
Once you know that $B:=,yin Fmid $ is compact, the continuous(!) map $BtoBbb R$, $ymapsto |y-x|$ attains its minimum at some $y_0in Bsubset F$. As $x_nto x$ and $|x|>0$, almost all $x_n$ are $in B$. Then from $|y_0-x|le |x_n-x|to 0$, we conclude $|y_0-x|=0$ and finally $x=y_0in F$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $xin E$ be the limit of a sequence $(x_n)_n$ where $x_nin F$ for all $n$. If $x=0$, nothing needs to be shown.
Once you know that $B:=,yin Fmid $ is compact, the continuous(!) map $BtoBbb R$, $ymapsto |y-x|$ attains its minimum at some $y_0in Bsubset F$. As $x_nto x$ and $|x|>0$, almost all $x_n$ are $in B$. Then from $|y_0-x|le |x_n-x|to 0$, we conclude $|y_0-x|=0$ and finally $x=y_0in F$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $xin E$ be the limit of a sequence $(x_n)_n$ where $x_nin F$ for all $n$. If $x=0$, nothing needs to be shown.
Once you know that $B:=,yin Fmid $ is compact, the continuous(!) map $BtoBbb R$, $ymapsto |y-x|$ attains its minimum at some $y_0in Bsubset F$. As $x_nto x$ and $|x|>0$, almost all $x_n$ are $in B$. Then from $|y_0-x|le |x_n-x|to 0$, we conclude $|y_0-x|=0$ and finally $x=y_0in F$.
$endgroup$
Let $xin E$ be the limit of a sequence $(x_n)_n$ where $x_nin F$ for all $n$. If $x=0$, nothing needs to be shown.
Once you know that $B:=,yin Fmid $ is compact, the continuous(!) map $BtoBbb R$, $ymapsto |y-x|$ attains its minimum at some $y_0in Bsubset F$. As $x_nto x$ and $|x|>0$, almost all $x_n$ are $in B$. Then from $|y_0-x|le |x_n-x|to 0$, we conclude $|y_0-x|=0$ and finally $x=y_0in F$.
answered Mar 2 at 7:53
Hagen von EitzenHagen von Eitzen
283k23272507
283k23272507
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another approach will be to show that a finite-dimensional normed space (over $mathbb R$ or $mathbb C$ or indeed over any complete normed field) is complete. Then conclude that it is closed in a larger normed space.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another approach will be to show that a finite-dimensional normed space (over $mathbb R$ or $mathbb C$ or indeed over any complete normed field) is complete. Then conclude that it is closed in a larger normed space.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Another approach will be to show that a finite-dimensional normed space (over $mathbb R$ or $mathbb C$ or indeed over any complete normed field) is complete. Then conclude that it is closed in a larger normed space.
$endgroup$
Another approach will be to show that a finite-dimensional normed space (over $mathbb R$ or $mathbb C$ or indeed over any complete normed field) is complete. Then conclude that it is closed in a larger normed space.
answered Mar 2 at 1:20
GEdgarGEdgar
63.3k268172
63.3k268172
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint:
Use that all norms on $F$ are equivalent to show that all bounded subsets of $F$ which are closed in $F$ are compact.
Show that your sequence is contained in a bounded subset of $F$ which is closed in $F$.
Find a subsequence which has a limit in $F$. What is the limit?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint:
Use that all norms on $F$ are equivalent to show that all bounded subsets of $F$ which are closed in $F$ are compact.
Show that your sequence is contained in a bounded subset of $F$ which is closed in $F$.
Find a subsequence which has a limit in $F$. What is the limit?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint:
Use that all norms on $F$ are equivalent to show that all bounded subsets of $F$ which are closed in $F$ are compact.
Show that your sequence is contained in a bounded subset of $F$ which is closed in $F$.
Find a subsequence which has a limit in $F$. What is the limit?
$endgroup$
Hint:
Use that all norms on $F$ are equivalent to show that all bounded subsets of $F$ which are closed in $F$ are compact.
Show that your sequence is contained in a bounded subset of $F$ which is closed in $F$.
Find a subsequence which has a limit in $F$. What is the limit?
edited Mar 2 at 1:40
answered Mar 2 at 1:26
triitrii
80817
80817
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To elaborate a bit on GEdgar's suggestion: We know that $F$ has a basis $e_1,dots,e_n$. Using Bolzano-Weierstrass you can show that we have the existence of some $r>0$ such that for any choice of scalars $c_1,dots,c_nin K$ we have
$$|sum_i=1^nc_ie_i|geq rsum_i=1^n|c_i|.$$
Using this you can show that $F$ is complete. Consider a cauchy sequence $(x_m)subset F$. We know that each $x_m=sum_i=1^nc_i^(m)e_i$. Using the inequality above and the cauchyness of $(x_m)$ try and show that each sequence of scalars $(c_i^(m))$ is also Cauchy. As $K$ is complete we know that these sequences each have a limit in $K$. Show that $(x_m)$ converges to the element of $F$ defined by these scalar limits.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To elaborate a bit on GEdgar's suggestion: We know that $F$ has a basis $e_1,dots,e_n$. Using Bolzano-Weierstrass you can show that we have the existence of some $r>0$ such that for any choice of scalars $c_1,dots,c_nin K$ we have
$$|sum_i=1^nc_ie_i|geq rsum_i=1^n|c_i|.$$
Using this you can show that $F$ is complete. Consider a cauchy sequence $(x_m)subset F$. We know that each $x_m=sum_i=1^nc_i^(m)e_i$. Using the inequality above and the cauchyness of $(x_m)$ try and show that each sequence of scalars $(c_i^(m))$ is also Cauchy. As $K$ is complete we know that these sequences each have a limit in $K$. Show that $(x_m)$ converges to the element of $F$ defined by these scalar limits.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To elaborate a bit on GEdgar's suggestion: We know that $F$ has a basis $e_1,dots,e_n$. Using Bolzano-Weierstrass you can show that we have the existence of some $r>0$ such that for any choice of scalars $c_1,dots,c_nin K$ we have
$$|sum_i=1^nc_ie_i|geq rsum_i=1^n|c_i|.$$
Using this you can show that $F$ is complete. Consider a cauchy sequence $(x_m)subset F$. We know that each $x_m=sum_i=1^nc_i^(m)e_i$. Using the inequality above and the cauchyness of $(x_m)$ try and show that each sequence of scalars $(c_i^(m))$ is also Cauchy. As $K$ is complete we know that these sequences each have a limit in $K$. Show that $(x_m)$ converges to the element of $F$ defined by these scalar limits.
$endgroup$
To elaborate a bit on GEdgar's suggestion: We know that $F$ has a basis $e_1,dots,e_n$. Using Bolzano-Weierstrass you can show that we have the existence of some $r>0$ such that for any choice of scalars $c_1,dots,c_nin K$ we have
$$|sum_i=1^nc_ie_i|geq rsum_i=1^n|c_i|.$$
Using this you can show that $F$ is complete. Consider a cauchy sequence $(x_m)subset F$. We know that each $x_m=sum_i=1^nc_i^(m)e_i$. Using the inequality above and the cauchyness of $(x_m)$ try and show that each sequence of scalars $(c_i^(m))$ is also Cauchy. As $K$ is complete we know that these sequences each have a limit in $K$. Show that $(x_m)$ converges to the element of $F$ defined by these scalar limits.
edited Mar 2 at 1:49
answered Mar 2 at 1:44
K.PowerK.Power
3,630926
3,630926
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think K.Power's answer is the best elementary proof but if you don't know the inequality used in his/her answer, you can argue successfully without it:
Let $F=textspane^1,cdots, e^n,$ where the $ langle e^i,e^jrangle =delta^ij; 1le ile n.$
Now, suppose $Fsupset (x_n)to xin E$. Then, $x_i=a^i_1e^1+cdots +a^i_ne^n; 1le ile n.$
Of course, $(x_n)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $E$, so since
$|x_m-x_k|^2=|(a^m_1-a^k_1)e^1+cdots (a^m_n-a^k_n)e^n|^2=|a^m_1-a^k_1|^2+cdots +|a^m_n-a^k_n|^2$
(because the $(e^i)$ are orthogonal), each $(a_i^m)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $K$.
Assuming now that $K$ is complete, we have $a^m_ito a_iin K; 1le ile n$.
To finish, consider the vector $x=a_1e^1+cdots +a_ne^n$.
Clearly, $xin F$ and now, another application of the triangle inequality shows that
$|x-x_n|to 0$, from which it follows that $x_nto xin F$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Are you sure that you can just use the triangle inequality to show that each $(a_i^m)$ is Cauchy? You need to show that $|a_i^m-a_i^k|leq C|x_m-x_k|$ to use that $(x_m)$ is Cauchy. I think you need something like the inequality I used to show that.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 12:01
$begingroup$
@K.Power: I assumed wlog orthogonality of the $e^i$ so I think the claim is ok.Or I guess you could use the max norm to avoid the problem entirely.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Mar 2 at 15:58
$begingroup$
Ahh yes that's a neat argument
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 19:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think K.Power's answer is the best elementary proof but if you don't know the inequality used in his/her answer, you can argue successfully without it:
Let $F=textspane^1,cdots, e^n,$ where the $ langle e^i,e^jrangle =delta^ij; 1le ile n.$
Now, suppose $Fsupset (x_n)to xin E$. Then, $x_i=a^i_1e^1+cdots +a^i_ne^n; 1le ile n.$
Of course, $(x_n)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $E$, so since
$|x_m-x_k|^2=|(a^m_1-a^k_1)e^1+cdots (a^m_n-a^k_n)e^n|^2=|a^m_1-a^k_1|^2+cdots +|a^m_n-a^k_n|^2$
(because the $(e^i)$ are orthogonal), each $(a_i^m)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $K$.
Assuming now that $K$ is complete, we have $a^m_ito a_iin K; 1le ile n$.
To finish, consider the vector $x=a_1e^1+cdots +a_ne^n$.
Clearly, $xin F$ and now, another application of the triangle inequality shows that
$|x-x_n|to 0$, from which it follows that $x_nto xin F$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Are you sure that you can just use the triangle inequality to show that each $(a_i^m)$ is Cauchy? You need to show that $|a_i^m-a_i^k|leq C|x_m-x_k|$ to use that $(x_m)$ is Cauchy. I think you need something like the inequality I used to show that.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 12:01
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@K.Power: I assumed wlog orthogonality of the $e^i$ so I think the claim is ok.Or I guess you could use the max norm to avoid the problem entirely.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Mar 2 at 15:58
$begingroup$
Ahh yes that's a neat argument
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 19:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think K.Power's answer is the best elementary proof but if you don't know the inequality used in his/her answer, you can argue successfully without it:
Let $F=textspane^1,cdots, e^n,$ where the $ langle e^i,e^jrangle =delta^ij; 1le ile n.$
Now, suppose $Fsupset (x_n)to xin E$. Then, $x_i=a^i_1e^1+cdots +a^i_ne^n; 1le ile n.$
Of course, $(x_n)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $E$, so since
$|x_m-x_k|^2=|(a^m_1-a^k_1)e^1+cdots (a^m_n-a^k_n)e^n|^2=|a^m_1-a^k_1|^2+cdots +|a^m_n-a^k_n|^2$
(because the $(e^i)$ are orthogonal), each $(a_i^m)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $K$.
Assuming now that $K$ is complete, we have $a^m_ito a_iin K; 1le ile n$.
To finish, consider the vector $x=a_1e^1+cdots +a_ne^n$.
Clearly, $xin F$ and now, another application of the triangle inequality shows that
$|x-x_n|to 0$, from which it follows that $x_nto xin F$
$endgroup$
I think K.Power's answer is the best elementary proof but if you don't know the inequality used in his/her answer, you can argue successfully without it:
Let $F=textspane^1,cdots, e^n,$ where the $ langle e^i,e^jrangle =delta^ij; 1le ile n.$
Now, suppose $Fsupset (x_n)to xin E$. Then, $x_i=a^i_1e^1+cdots +a^i_ne^n; 1le ile n.$
Of course, $(x_n)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $E$, so since
$|x_m-x_k|^2=|(a^m_1-a^k_1)e^1+cdots (a^m_n-a^k_n)e^n|^2=|a^m_1-a^k_1|^2+cdots +|a^m_n-a^k_n|^2$
(because the $(e^i)$ are orthogonal), each $(a_i^m)$ is a Cauchy sequence in $K$.
Assuming now that $K$ is complete, we have $a^m_ito a_iin K; 1le ile n$.
To finish, consider the vector $x=a_1e^1+cdots +a_ne^n$.
Clearly, $xin F$ and now, another application of the triangle inequality shows that
$|x-x_n|to 0$, from which it follows that $x_nto xin F$
edited Mar 2 at 17:30
answered Mar 2 at 2:14
MatematletaMatematleta
11.8k21020
11.8k21020
$begingroup$
Are you sure that you can just use the triangle inequality to show that each $(a_i^m)$ is Cauchy? You need to show that $|a_i^m-a_i^k|leq C|x_m-x_k|$ to use that $(x_m)$ is Cauchy. I think you need something like the inequality I used to show that.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 12:01
$begingroup$
@K.Power: I assumed wlog orthogonality of the $e^i$ so I think the claim is ok.Or I guess you could use the max norm to avoid the problem entirely.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Mar 2 at 15:58
$begingroup$
Ahh yes that's a neat argument
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 19:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Are you sure that you can just use the triangle inequality to show that each $(a_i^m)$ is Cauchy? You need to show that $|a_i^m-a_i^k|leq C|x_m-x_k|$ to use that $(x_m)$ is Cauchy. I think you need something like the inequality I used to show that.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 12:01
$begingroup$
@K.Power: I assumed wlog orthogonality of the $e^i$ so I think the claim is ok.Or I guess you could use the max norm to avoid the problem entirely.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Mar 2 at 15:58
$begingroup$
Ahh yes that's a neat argument
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 19:56
$begingroup$
Are you sure that you can just use the triangle inequality to show that each $(a_i^m)$ is Cauchy? You need to show that $|a_i^m-a_i^k|leq C|x_m-x_k|$ to use that $(x_m)$ is Cauchy. I think you need something like the inequality I used to show that.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 12:01
$begingroup$
Are you sure that you can just use the triangle inequality to show that each $(a_i^m)$ is Cauchy? You need to show that $|a_i^m-a_i^k|leq C|x_m-x_k|$ to use that $(x_m)$ is Cauchy. I think you need something like the inequality I used to show that.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 12:01
$begingroup$
@K.Power: I assumed wlog orthogonality of the $e^i$ so I think the claim is ok.Or I guess you could use the max norm to avoid the problem entirely.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Mar 2 at 15:58
$begingroup$
@K.Power: I assumed wlog orthogonality of the $e^i$ so I think the claim is ok.Or I guess you could use the max norm to avoid the problem entirely.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Mar 2 at 15:58
$begingroup$
Ahh yes that's a neat argument
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 19:56
$begingroup$
Ahh yes that's a neat argument
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 19:56
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You haven't correctly stated what you need to prove -- you need to show that any sequence of elements of $F$ that converges in $E$ in fact has its limit in $F$.
But I think it may be easier to show that the complement of F is open. Consider an element $x in E setminus F$. It has a distance $gamma gt 0$ from $F$, given by $||z||$, where $x = y+z$ with $y in F$ and $z perp F$. Then $B(x, gamma /2) subseteq E setminus F$ so $x$ is in the interior of $E setminus F$. We chose $x$ arbitrarily, so this proves $E setminus F$ is open so that $F$ is closed.
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$begingroup$
how can we write x=y+z ? E is not an euclidien space to talk about the orthogonal of a subspace !
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 1:14
$begingroup$
Aren't you assuming that the OP knows that finite dimensional subspaces are complemented? This implies they already know that they are closed.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 1:23
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@K.Power $F + x$ is finite dimensional so you can work there to come up with $z$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 2 at 16:21
$begingroup$
Do you mind elaborating? I still don't see how you can talk about $zperp F$ and knowing that $d(F,x)>0$ without knowing that $F$ is complemented.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 20:57
$begingroup$
Not sure what you mean by “complemented.” I don’t recall the term from when I last studied linear algebra roughly three decades ago. But since $F$ is finite-dimensional, fix a basis for $F$, and for any $x notin F$ and use the basis created by $F+x$ to create an inner product, and therefore a norm, that’s equivalent to the existing norm.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 3 at 3:05
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
You haven't correctly stated what you need to prove -- you need to show that any sequence of elements of $F$ that converges in $E$ in fact has its limit in $F$.
But I think it may be easier to show that the complement of F is open. Consider an element $x in E setminus F$. It has a distance $gamma gt 0$ from $F$, given by $||z||$, where $x = y+z$ with $y in F$ and $z perp F$. Then $B(x, gamma /2) subseteq E setminus F$ so $x$ is in the interior of $E setminus F$. We chose $x$ arbitrarily, so this proves $E setminus F$ is open so that $F$ is closed.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
how can we write x=y+z ? E is not an euclidien space to talk about the orthogonal of a subspace !
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 1:14
$begingroup$
Aren't you assuming that the OP knows that finite dimensional subspaces are complemented? This implies they already know that they are closed.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 1:23
$begingroup$
@K.Power $F + x$ is finite dimensional so you can work there to come up with $z$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 2 at 16:21
$begingroup$
Do you mind elaborating? I still don't see how you can talk about $zperp F$ and knowing that $d(F,x)>0$ without knowing that $F$ is complemented.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 20:57
$begingroup$
Not sure what you mean by “complemented.” I don’t recall the term from when I last studied linear algebra roughly three decades ago. But since $F$ is finite-dimensional, fix a basis for $F$, and for any $x notin F$ and use the basis created by $F+x$ to create an inner product, and therefore a norm, that’s equivalent to the existing norm.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 3 at 3:05
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
You haven't correctly stated what you need to prove -- you need to show that any sequence of elements of $F$ that converges in $E$ in fact has its limit in $F$.
But I think it may be easier to show that the complement of F is open. Consider an element $x in E setminus F$. It has a distance $gamma gt 0$ from $F$, given by $||z||$, where $x = y+z$ with $y in F$ and $z perp F$. Then $B(x, gamma /2) subseteq E setminus F$ so $x$ is in the interior of $E setminus F$. We chose $x$ arbitrarily, so this proves $E setminus F$ is open so that $F$ is closed.
$endgroup$
You haven't correctly stated what you need to prove -- you need to show that any sequence of elements of $F$ that converges in $E$ in fact has its limit in $F$.
But I think it may be easier to show that the complement of F is open. Consider an element $x in E setminus F$. It has a distance $gamma gt 0$ from $F$, given by $||z||$, where $x = y+z$ with $y in F$ and $z perp F$. Then $B(x, gamma /2) subseteq E setminus F$ so $x$ is in the interior of $E setminus F$. We chose $x$ arbitrarily, so this proves $E setminus F$ is open so that $F$ is closed.
answered Mar 2 at 1:11
Robert ShoreRobert Shore
3,603324
3,603324
$begingroup$
how can we write x=y+z ? E is not an euclidien space to talk about the orthogonal of a subspace !
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 1:14
$begingroup$
Aren't you assuming that the OP knows that finite dimensional subspaces are complemented? This implies they already know that they are closed.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 1:23
$begingroup$
@K.Power $F + x$ is finite dimensional so you can work there to come up with $z$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 2 at 16:21
$begingroup$
Do you mind elaborating? I still don't see how you can talk about $zperp F$ and knowing that $d(F,x)>0$ without knowing that $F$ is complemented.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 20:57
$begingroup$
Not sure what you mean by “complemented.” I don’t recall the term from when I last studied linear algebra roughly three decades ago. But since $F$ is finite-dimensional, fix a basis for $F$, and for any $x notin F$ and use the basis created by $F+x$ to create an inner product, and therefore a norm, that’s equivalent to the existing norm.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 3 at 3:05
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
how can we write x=y+z ? E is not an euclidien space to talk about the orthogonal of a subspace !
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 1:14
$begingroup$
Aren't you assuming that the OP knows that finite dimensional subspaces are complemented? This implies they already know that they are closed.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 1:23
$begingroup$
@K.Power $F + x$ is finite dimensional so you can work there to come up with $z$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 2 at 16:21
$begingroup$
Do you mind elaborating? I still don't see how you can talk about $zperp F$ and knowing that $d(F,x)>0$ without knowing that $F$ is complemented.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 20:57
$begingroup$
Not sure what you mean by “complemented.” I don’t recall the term from when I last studied linear algebra roughly three decades ago. But since $F$ is finite-dimensional, fix a basis for $F$, and for any $x notin F$ and use the basis created by $F+x$ to create an inner product, and therefore a norm, that’s equivalent to the existing norm.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 3 at 3:05
$begingroup$
how can we write x=y+z ? E is not an euclidien space to talk about the orthogonal of a subspace !
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 1:14
$begingroup$
how can we write x=y+z ? E is not an euclidien space to talk about the orthogonal of a subspace !
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 1:14
$begingroup$
Aren't you assuming that the OP knows that finite dimensional subspaces are complemented? This implies they already know that they are closed.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 1:23
$begingroup$
Aren't you assuming that the OP knows that finite dimensional subspaces are complemented? This implies they already know that they are closed.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 1:23
$begingroup$
@K.Power $F + x$ is finite dimensional so you can work there to come up with $z$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 2 at 16:21
$begingroup$
@K.Power $F + x$ is finite dimensional so you can work there to come up with $z$.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 2 at 16:21
$begingroup$
Do you mind elaborating? I still don't see how you can talk about $zperp F$ and knowing that $d(F,x)>0$ without knowing that $F$ is complemented.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 20:57
$begingroup$
Do you mind elaborating? I still don't see how you can talk about $zperp F$ and knowing that $d(F,x)>0$ without knowing that $F$ is complemented.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 20:57
$begingroup$
Not sure what you mean by “complemented.” I don’t recall the term from when I last studied linear algebra roughly three decades ago. But since $F$ is finite-dimensional, fix a basis for $F$, and for any $x notin F$ and use the basis created by $F+x$ to create an inner product, and therefore a norm, that’s equivalent to the existing norm.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 3 at 3:05
$begingroup$
Not sure what you mean by “complemented.” I don’t recall the term from when I last studied linear algebra roughly three decades ago. But since $F$ is finite-dimensional, fix a basis for $F$, and for any $x notin F$ and use the basis created by $F+x$ to create an inner product, and therefore a norm, that’s equivalent to the existing norm.
$endgroup$
– Robert Shore
Mar 3 at 3:05
|
show 1 more comment
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$begingroup$
I am voting to close, because it is not at all clear to me what you are asking. Are you asking for the intuition behind closed sets, or are you asking how to show that a finite dimensional subspace is closed?
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:44
$begingroup$
@K.Power actually I am looking for both
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:46
$begingroup$
If it is the latter then you will find such a question has been asked before on this site. I should also point out that you need to show that any convergent sequence in $F$ has its limit in $F$.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:47
$begingroup$
@K.Power I've been searching but I dont have any idea about the methode they using
$endgroup$
– user515918
Mar 2 at 0:48
$begingroup$
As these are very distinct questions you should definitely ask these in two separate posts.
$endgroup$
– K.Power
Mar 2 at 0:50