Why are longwave radio towers so tall?

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP












9














They are often in the hundred meters high. See the wiki link:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave



Why are they so tall? Because the wavelength is long, so the antenna should also be long? But to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency, right? It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna, right?










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 6




    This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth. An AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is space heater and transmitter burner...
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 13:31






  • 1




    @hyportnex, you should post your comment as an answer --- it is more to the point than any of the posted answers.
    – The Photon
    Dec 23 '18 at 18:35










  • @ThePhoton am happy to oblige... see below.
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:13










  • @hyportnex excellent answer, glad you did!
    – uhoh
    Dec 24 '18 at 1:18










  • Yes. Because the wavelength is long, the antenna should be long.
    – phoog
    Dec 24 '18 at 15:49















9














They are often in the hundred meters high. See the wiki link:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave



Why are they so tall? Because the wavelength is long, so the antenna should also be long? But to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency, right? It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna, right?










share|cite|improve this question



















  • 6




    This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth. An AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is space heater and transmitter burner...
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 13:31






  • 1




    @hyportnex, you should post your comment as an answer --- it is more to the point than any of the posted answers.
    – The Photon
    Dec 23 '18 at 18:35










  • @ThePhoton am happy to oblige... see below.
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:13










  • @hyportnex excellent answer, glad you did!
    – uhoh
    Dec 24 '18 at 1:18










  • Yes. Because the wavelength is long, the antenna should be long.
    – phoog
    Dec 24 '18 at 15:49













9












9








9


4





They are often in the hundred meters high. See the wiki link:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave



Why are they so tall? Because the wavelength is long, so the antenna should also be long? But to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency, right? It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna, right?










share|cite|improve this question















They are often in the hundred meters high. See the wiki link:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwave



Why are they so tall? Because the wavelength is long, so the antenna should also be long? But to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency, right? It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna, right?







electromagnetism electromagnetic-radiation antennas radio






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 23 '18 at 6:42









Qmechanic

101k121831153




101k121831153










asked Dec 23 '18 at 6:25









poisson

594215




594215







  • 6




    This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth. An AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is space heater and transmitter burner...
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 13:31






  • 1




    @hyportnex, you should post your comment as an answer --- it is more to the point than any of the posted answers.
    – The Photon
    Dec 23 '18 at 18:35










  • @ThePhoton am happy to oblige... see below.
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:13










  • @hyportnex excellent answer, glad you did!
    – uhoh
    Dec 24 '18 at 1:18










  • Yes. Because the wavelength is long, the antenna should be long.
    – phoog
    Dec 24 '18 at 15:49












  • 6




    This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth. An AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is space heater and transmitter burner...
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 13:31






  • 1




    @hyportnex, you should post your comment as an answer --- it is more to the point than any of the posted answers.
    – The Photon
    Dec 23 '18 at 18:35










  • @ThePhoton am happy to oblige... see below.
    – hyportnex
    Dec 23 '18 at 21:13










  • @hyportnex excellent answer, glad you did!
    – uhoh
    Dec 24 '18 at 1:18










  • Yes. Because the wavelength is long, the antenna should be long.
    – phoog
    Dec 24 '18 at 15:49







6




6




This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth. An AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is space heater and transmitter burner...
– hyportnex
Dec 23 '18 at 13:31




This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth. An AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is space heater and transmitter burner...
– hyportnex
Dec 23 '18 at 13:31




1




1




@hyportnex, you should post your comment as an answer --- it is more to the point than any of the posted answers.
– The Photon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:35




@hyportnex, you should post your comment as an answer --- it is more to the point than any of the posted answers.
– The Photon
Dec 23 '18 at 18:35












@ThePhoton am happy to oblige... see below.
– hyportnex
Dec 23 '18 at 21:13




@ThePhoton am happy to oblige... see below.
– hyportnex
Dec 23 '18 at 21:13












@hyportnex excellent answer, glad you did!
– uhoh
Dec 24 '18 at 1:18




@hyportnex excellent answer, glad you did!
– uhoh
Dec 24 '18 at 1:18












Yes. Because the wavelength is long, the antenna should be long.
– phoog
Dec 24 '18 at 15:49




Yes. Because the wavelength is long, the antenna should be long.
– phoog
Dec 24 '18 at 15:49










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes


















12














My answer is completely different. Longwave antennas usually are
quarter-wave antennas, also known as Marconi antennas from its inventor. As the name says, they have length about 1/4 the wavelength to be transmitted.
Compare them to dipole antennas generally used for shorter wavelengths,
both in transmission and in reception, which are one half-wave long.
A quarter-wave antenna may be seen to be completed to a dipole by its
mirror image formed by a ground plane (usually the physical ground
beneath it).



The physical reason why an antenna is to be in a simple (1/4, 1/2)
ratio to wavelength is not very easy to explain. Keep in mind that
among e.m. devices antennas are the hardest to understand and also to
design. They are at the interface between two domains: the one of
electric circuits (resistors, capacitors, inductors, generators) and
the one of e.m. waves. Furthermore, both in case of receiving and of
transmitting anntennas it's of paramount importance their
efficiency, i.e. their ability to emit the highest possible fraction
of the power generated by the transmitter, or that to absorb and
make usable by amplifying circuits as much power as possible from an
impinging wave.



As far as pure theory is concerned it wouldn't be necessary a special
size for an antenna having to transmit a given wavelength (i.e. a given
frequency). But on the practical side things are very different.
Consider a Marconi antenna of the wrong size. In general it would be
seen by transmitting equipment as a reactive load, i.e. a resistor
in series with an inductor or a capacitor. An inductor if too long, a
capacitor if too short. This can be cured by impedance matching: by
adding in series to the antenna a capacitor in the former case, an
inductor in the latter.



But an antenna of the wrong length suffers another drawback: its
radiation resistance (RR) drops substantially. RR multipled by
current squared gives radiated power. So a low RR requires a higher
current to give the required power, and this in turn requires a
step-down transformer to match the high antenna current to the
output characteristics of transmitter. The high antenna current
moreover increases power dissipated in the unavoidable ohmic
resistance, so that radiation efficiency lowers.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    12














    This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna, i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth.



    The impedance of a short dipole of length $h$ and radius $a$ is approximately $Z_dipole approx 20 (kh)^2 - mathfrak j frac120(textrmln(h/a) -1)textrmtan(kh)$ with $k=2pi/lambda$. A short dipole, (infinitesimal or otherwise), one whose length is less than $lambda/10$ is, therefore, a frequency varying capacitor in series with a tiny radiation resistance, so it is almost an open circuit. To make this radiate one can just place a series inductor to resonate the capacitor "out".
    So far so good but the radiation resistance is still in the micro- or milli-ohms, for example, a 1m long dipole at 1MHz has radiation resistance $800 textrmmOmega$.... Thus this antenna as a load represents an enormous reflector on a, say, $50Omega$ transmission line unless one also makes an impedance transformer to match it to the free space whose impedance is $120pi=377 Omega$.



    One may try to add other reactive elements such as another inductor in parallel so that the two inductors also act as an impedance transformer but now one quickly runs into a very severe practical limitation: the larger the transformer ratio one needs the larger the circulating currents will be, and unfortunately the circuit losses are proportional to $I^2$. It is quite possible that the radiation resistance of a short dipole is in fact much less than the parasitic resistance of the matching network, and thus most of the transmitter's power is dissipated in the circuit (mostly in the coils) and not radiated out. Compare this case with that of a half-wave dipole whose impedance is almost real and $approx 73 Omega$.



    One must also mention a further more subtle but in practice also more difficult complication. For a fixed antenna size as one increases the wavelength (reduces the frequency) the ratio of the reactance (imaginary part) to resistance (real part) of the antenna impedance also increases, in fact the increase is much faster than linear (quasi-exponential). This results in an essentially exponentially shrinking operating bandwidth because the lumped element matching circuit has an impedance that is a rational function (ratio of polynomials) of frequency. As an example, an AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is at worst a transmitter burner and at best a space heater...






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      6














      Antenna performance is strongly affected by the presence of the ground nearby. The standard rule of thumb is to raise the antenna to a height above ground of about one half of the wavelength it will operate at, in order to minimize power loss in the ground and radiation directionality effects. At low frequencies- say, ~1 MHz- the wavelength is 300 meters which would put the antenna wire 150 meters above ground. It is not uncommon to take some effectiveness loss and raise the antenna up 1/4 wavelength instead.






      share|cite|improve this answer


















      • 3




        I think you meant 1 MHz ($=10^6$ Hz) not 1 mHz ($=10^-3$ Hz).
        – Gary Godfrey
        Dec 23 '18 at 9:55










      • of course, thanks, will edit.
        – niels nielsen
        Dec 23 '18 at 19:39


















      5















      ... to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency




      That is the point. For lower frequency the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod. Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast, the power of the antenna generator would not do work, but only heat the system. The frequency, one want to transmit and the length of the rod are not independent regarding the energy efficiency and the quality of the sine form of the transmitted energy.



      To give an example of a sharp pulsed wave signal try to imagine what happens with the electrons inside a superconducting rod. The generator nearly at once pushes all available electrons to the end of the rod and after until the end of the first half cycle runs again a huge ohmic resistance (we are tolking about an open circuit). The accelerated electrons emit at one moment a huge number of photons - I suppose in the range of X-Rays - and after nothing and only with the beginning of the second half cycle of the generator the same emission happens again, this time in the opposite direction of course.




      It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna




      For very low frequencies it is impossible to built such long antennas. But it’s helpful to add to the end of the rod additional metal which works like a capacitor Dachkapazität (available only in the German wiki). So the acceleration of photons lasts longer and the efficiency of the generator and the quality of the wave is improved.



      enter image description here
      Source






      share|cite|improve this answer


















      • 4




        IMHO there is no meaningful physics in your answer. For instance, apparently you have no idea of how electrons move in a conducting wire. At frequencies of many kHz electrons oscillate in a very very short distance. I made no estimate, but if you wish I'll do.
        – Elio Fabri
        Dec 23 '18 at 20:03










      • @ElioFabri I’m aware of the drift velocity and I wrote „Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast...“. Did you agree, that then lower the frequency - for rods of the same length-, then more electrons “fill” the end of the rod?
        – HolgerFiedler
        Dec 23 '18 at 21:00











      • @The_Sympathizer A potential difference between the generator and the end of the rod travels with maximum the drift velocity of the conductor. The heigher the generators frequency the faster the drift changes its sign. In the case of low frequencies the drift finishes before the generator changes its potential and instead of a sine signal one get peaks. To last the drift longer, the roof capacity was invented. And about an electron, “moving all the way”, please change the text, if you think that this was written in it. It was not my intention, to be understood like you interpret it.
        – HolgerFiedler
        Dec 24 '18 at 6:30







      • 1




        Dachkapazität in English is called a capacitance or capacity hat, or a top load.
        – Phil Frost
        Dec 26 '18 at 13:27











      • "...the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod." Sorry, they are not inside, because of the Skin Effect.
        – Mike Waters
        Dec 28 '18 at 2:46



















      2














      Most antennas are "line of sight". That is, you want the EM wave to pass through as little obstructions as possible, as the the photons will have a higher likelihood of scattering in random directions or being absorbed. So to maximize coherence of the signal we try to limit the amount of obstructions it comes in contact with.



      Since they are radio waves they can pass through most things, but you don't want them to pass through very thick media like mountains etc as the will make the signal weaker.






      share|cite|improve this answer
















      • 9




        Most antennas are "line of sight". - This is not true at longwave frequencies. The BBC longwave transmitter at Droitwich (UK) is intended cover the whole of England and Wales, but in practice it can be easily received by British ex-pats in the south of France, and even as far away as Italy.
        – alephzero
        Dec 23 '18 at 14:54







      • 2




        Moreover the ionosphere will function like a mirror and will bounce the signal back towards earth.
        – ZeroTheHero
        Dec 23 '18 at 19:28


















      2














      $letd=delta letlam=lambda letom=omega lets=sigma
      letOm=Omega defqy#1#2#1,mathrm#2 defRrR_mathrm r
      defhalf1 over 2 def10#1#2#1cdot10^#2
      defPD#1#2partial#1 over partial#2$

      I want to add another answer rather than editing the former, since what
      follows is strictly connected to @The_Sympathizer's answer. On the
      other hand a comment is too much limited in size for my reasoning.



      Let me first correct a minor point. The_Sympathizer writes




      To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that
      is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and
      sound.




      In fact the shortest resonant length is $lam/2$ ($lam/4$ for the
      "virtual" one). The same holds for organ pipes and other wind
      instruments too).



      But my central argument is the following. The_Sympathizer writes




      you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the
      frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one
      half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other
      half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave
      cycle.




      This is true but raises a doubt. How can such imbalance arise if not
      with electrons migrating from one side ot the antenna to the opposite?
      Strange as it may appear, the only way to solve the issue is in
      examining some numbers.



      Let's begin by choosing a reasonable size for the antenna and its
      power. There is a considerable range of possible values, from high
      frequency low power amateur transmitters to low frequency extra-high
      power broadcasters. I'll take values rather near the former limit, but any reader will be able to change numbers and follow how that
      modifies my conclusions - if it does. Then




      • $nu = qy100MHz quad lam = qy 3 m$ (frequency, wavelength)


      • $l = lam/4 = qy0.75m$ (1/2 antenna length)


      • $d = qy1cm = qy0.01m$ (diameter of antenna conductor)


      • $I_0 = qy 2 A$ (peak antenna current).

      Given radiation resistance $Rr = qy73Om$ radiated power is
      $half,Rr,I_0^2 = qy146W$.



      We'll also need the effective conductor cross section, taking into
      account skin effect. From
      https://chemandy.com/calculators/skin-effect-calculator.htm
      we get



      • skin effect depth $d = qy6.5mu m$

      and cross section is $s = pi dd = qy102.0-7m^2$.



      Another datum we need is electron number density $n$ (number of free
      electrons per unit volume). It the antenna is made of copper, assuming
      one free electron per atom, from known density of copper and its
      atomic mass we have




      • $n = qy108.528m^-3 $ (electron number density).


      We're now ready to begin reasoning. In our antenna a standing wave is present, of wavelength $lam$ and frequency $nu$. All interesting quantities must have an expression consistent with the standing wave and relevant boundary conditions. For instance the current will be
      $$I(x,t) = I_0 cos kx ,cos om t qquad
      left(!k = 2pi over lam,quad
      om = 2pinu = c,k!right)$$

      (We must choose $cos kx$ in order that $I$ vanishes at antenna's ends ($x=l$). The choice $cosom t$ for time dependence is arbitrary, only amounting to fix the wave's phase at $t=0$.)



      We have in general
      $$I = -n,s,e,v$$
      ($v$ average electrons speed in point $x$ at time $t$). If we assume a collective average motion of electrons, described by a displacement $D(x,t)$, we'll write
      $$v = PD Dt.$$
      Then
      $$PD Dt = -I over n,s,e$$
      immediately integrable to
      $$D = -I_0 over n,s,e,om,cos kx,sinom t.$$
      So the maximum displacement occurs at antenna centre ($x=0$) and is
      $$|D_0| = I_0 over n,s,e,om =
      qy101.2-12m = qy1.2pm.$$




      When a physicist encounters such n unbelievable result he has two moral duties:



      • to check his reasoning and calculations as accurately as he can

      • to find an alternative way to reach, at least grossly, the same
        result.

      You have only my word on the first point - about the second here's
      my proposal.



      We have a current of $qy2A$ peak at $qy100MHz$ on our antenna.
      So it alternates 200 million times a second and in 1/(200 millionth)
      of a second it transfers a charge of 2/(200 million) = $qy10^-8C$
      from - say - left side to right side of the antenna (actually less,
      since current is not constant at its peak value, but too bad - it
      means that we are overextimating the transferred charge).



      This charge amounts to a number of electrons:
      $$10^-8 over 101.6-19 = 10 610.$$



      If there is one free electron per Cu atom, the interested volume will be $10 610$ times the volume occupied by an atom. How can we
      estimate such volume?



      I know by heart some data:



      • Cu molar mass (atomic weight): about $qy60g/mol$

      • Avogadro's constant: $qy10 623mol^-1.$

      These give me the mass of one Cu atom:
      $$qy60g/mol over qy10 623mol^-1 = qy10^-22g.$$
      Now using



      • Cu density: about $qy9g/cm^3$

      I find the volume occupied by one atom:



      $$qy10^-22g over qy9g/cm^3 = qy10^-23cm^3 =
      qy10^-29m^3.$$



      Now the total volume of copper interested by charge displacement is
      $$10 610 times qy10^-29m^3 = qy10 6-19m^3.$$
      I had already computed (and re-checked) the cross section:
      $$qy10 2-7m^2$$
      and the above volume corresponds to a displacement
      $$qy10 6-19m^3 over qy10 2-7m^2 = qy10 3-12m$$




      Conclusion. You may change the initial data as you like. The result is so small that you will never be able to turn it into a significant one. This solves our doubt: there are so many electrons in the antenna that in order to produce an important charge imbalance (and a relevant radiation power) only a very very small fraction of them are to be moved.



      A final comment. I spent a not negligible part of my time in writing the above as I found it a very useful lesson - an impressive example of a general truth. You can't understand physics, also in its seemingly intuitive aspects, without grounding your reasoning on a sound quantitative basis. Physics without numbers is just chatter.






      share|cite|improve this answer






























        0














        An antenna basically works by generating an alternating electromagnetic field, which then per Maxwell's equations will propagate spatially like a wave. It in turn does this by having passed through itself an extremely high frequency, modulated alternating current (radio frequency alternating current or RF AC), just like the AC power that comes out of the mains and that runs your house, but with more signal complexity (the modulation to carry the message).



        Thus it is basically just a circuit element, i.e. a conductor, but with a catch. In a normal circuit, with low- to no-frequency changes in the currents/voltages, and which is of a suitably small size, one is in a regime in which the behavior of circuits can be analyzed in terms of what are known as Kirchhoff's laws and the lumped element model. In layman's terms, this means "circuit diagrams and component rules" like $V = IR$ for resistors, $C = fracQV$ for capacitors, and so forth with one component on the diagram for each real component on the circuit. And the reason this can be done is that in such circuits a couple of facts about the electromagnetic situations in them hold to at least an approximate degree of truth: the fields in most components are localized to within them, and that the charge distributions across the circuit are effectively uniform.



        But an antenna, in fact, is in a way a circuit which is expressly designed to violate these assumptions. It is a conductor operated at a high enough frequency and which is large enough that the rules are violated dramatically and thus its analysis requires considerably more sophistication to do in a quantitative, mathematical manner and thus to design such antennas with attention to making them possess efficiency of operation and quality and fidelity of generated signal, is also a fraught matter requiring level-99 Electrical Engineering (EE) skills.



        In particular, when you have alternating currents in a circuit, what you in a sense "really" have going through the circuit is electromagnetic waves. In a way, a circuit is kind of like a "fiber optic cable for RF waves", almost. These waves are what carry the energy through the circuit and moreover this is for exactly the same reason that when you flip your light switch the light turns on effectively "instantly" despite that the electrons in a circuit move only with much lower speed, almost a crawl (at least from a classical naive point of view - actually according to QM they do indeed move pretty quick in most metallic conductors, about 1000 km/s [to the extent that speeds can be assigned a well-defined value thanks to quantum fuzziness] so enough to reach your house light in a microsec essentially literally, but still the speed the energy reaches your light is higher than even this as I believe at least can be measured with more sophisticated experiments).



        When you flip the switch, a sharp electromagnetic wave front is created, behind which is the energy that you associate with "electric [mains] power", and as it passes them, at nearly the speed of light, the electrons are set in motion. Unlike what one may be thinking, electrons don't actually need to reach the bulb from elsewhere for it to have power, only the wave does.



        And when there's such a wave in a conductor, specifically Kirchhoff's junction rule is violated - meaning that there are, for a time, net accumulations of charge at some points along it, or places where the sum of currents going in does not equal the sum of currents going out, leading to unbalanced charges. This is because (at least from classical EM, my QED ain't good enough to give a really detailed quantum account) as the wave passes the electrons are not all moving uniformly but rather some bunch together more tightly at areas of stronger field gradient (higher wave slope, like at the middles between the peaks and troughs) than at areas of weaker gradient (lower wave slope, like at the peaks and troughs themselves). (This is also analogous, by the way, to how that gravitational forces cause stretching/squeezing when you have a gradient as in tidal forces or the passing of a gravitational wave past a point, though with the caveat that gravitational waves are tensor waves, not vector waves, so they affect things somewhat differently in terms of details.)



        And the simplest, ideal antenna is then one which is exactly one half or one wavelength of such a wave, long. As when you do that, you get an electromagnetic wave - what is really the radio wave you want to transmit, confined in a bottle like light in a fiber optic cable - across the whole length that is alternating and moreover forms a standing-wave pattern because with this length of antenna, the far end and near end can both serve as nodes (the electromagnetic wave - not electrons as in another answer that was posted here - effectively shoots through and then "bounces back" against the antenna's end and thus establishes the SW pattern similar to a sound wave of the right frequency in a hollow tube like those used on a pipe organ to produce the notes, which actually can thus be thought of as a sort of analogue model for the electromagnetic situation). With that standing wave, due to the variable compression and rarefaction of electrons within the metallic conductor, you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave cycle. This means that what you have is then an alternating dipole and thus more specifically an alternating dipole moment from the antenna, and according to Maxwell's equations an alternating dipole moment releases electromagnetic radiation. Alternatively, from a more conceptual or fundamentally theoretical point of view, you can say that a distant observer holding a charge will feel from the field of this alternating dipole in hir test charge an alternation in likewise manner. Which, effectively, is what the opposite of a transmitter - a receiver - does. And that means that information - the message being transmitted by the transmitter - is going from one point to another in space. And when that happens, since the speed of propagation of information is limited thanks to relativistic constraint (Lorentzian geometry of spacetime), then there must be something traversing the void between hir and the tower at that limited speed and thus that means in this situation radiation is present (and moreover, a though experiment of this type is an easy way to determine if in a given problem that radiation will be present or not. For example, a perfectly symmetric charged cylinder rotating around its axis - feel no change in EM field -> no information -> no radiation present. Charged cylinder tumbling end over end -> if you're a distance from the "ends" you feel it tugging periodically -> information is moving -> radiation is present.).



        To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and sound. And it turns out thanks to a mathematical property of the laws of electromagnetism we can do that in two ways: one is "real", to make a real antenna really one full wavelength long, and the other is "virtual", to make a half-antenna a half wavelength and to use the reflection of the waves from the ground to form a sort of "image" (this is first introduced in an EM course as the "method of image charges" for static charges and is the same basic principle) of the antenna that acts like the opposite, negatively-charged part. Antennae of other lengths will still have varying charge distributions through them, but won't be as efficient as it's off-resonance and so the amplitude of the wave in the antenna doesn't get as high and thus neither does the amplitude of what is sent out.



        And to get the final answer, the wavelength of an electromagnetic wave is related to its frequency by



        $$lambda = fraccf$$



        and of course, $c approx 300 000 mathrmkm/s$, which can be written perhaps more usefully as $300 mathrmm cdot MHz$. Thus a 1 MHz broadcast frequency requires a full-wave resonant antenna 300 m long, or a half-wave mirror antenna 150 m long. You can see that would make for quite a tower and indeed "quite a tower" is exactly what we have in real life!






        share|cite|improve this answer






















          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
          );
          );
          , "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "151"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader:
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          ,
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );













          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f449947%2fwhy-are-longwave-radio-towers-so-tall%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          7 Answers
          7






          active

          oldest

          votes








          7 Answers
          7






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          12














          My answer is completely different. Longwave antennas usually are
          quarter-wave antennas, also known as Marconi antennas from its inventor. As the name says, they have length about 1/4 the wavelength to be transmitted.
          Compare them to dipole antennas generally used for shorter wavelengths,
          both in transmission and in reception, which are one half-wave long.
          A quarter-wave antenna may be seen to be completed to a dipole by its
          mirror image formed by a ground plane (usually the physical ground
          beneath it).



          The physical reason why an antenna is to be in a simple (1/4, 1/2)
          ratio to wavelength is not very easy to explain. Keep in mind that
          among e.m. devices antennas are the hardest to understand and also to
          design. They are at the interface between two domains: the one of
          electric circuits (resistors, capacitors, inductors, generators) and
          the one of e.m. waves. Furthermore, both in case of receiving and of
          transmitting anntennas it's of paramount importance their
          efficiency, i.e. their ability to emit the highest possible fraction
          of the power generated by the transmitter, or that to absorb and
          make usable by amplifying circuits as much power as possible from an
          impinging wave.



          As far as pure theory is concerned it wouldn't be necessary a special
          size for an antenna having to transmit a given wavelength (i.e. a given
          frequency). But on the practical side things are very different.
          Consider a Marconi antenna of the wrong size. In general it would be
          seen by transmitting equipment as a reactive load, i.e. a resistor
          in series with an inductor or a capacitor. An inductor if too long, a
          capacitor if too short. This can be cured by impedance matching: by
          adding in series to the antenna a capacitor in the former case, an
          inductor in the latter.



          But an antenna of the wrong length suffers another drawback: its
          radiation resistance (RR) drops substantially. RR multipled by
          current squared gives radiated power. So a low RR requires a higher
          current to give the required power, and this in turn requires a
          step-down transformer to match the high antenna current to the
          output characteristics of transmitter. The high antenna current
          moreover increases power dissipated in the unavoidable ohmic
          resistance, so that radiation efficiency lowers.






          share|cite|improve this answer

























            12














            My answer is completely different. Longwave antennas usually are
            quarter-wave antennas, also known as Marconi antennas from its inventor. As the name says, they have length about 1/4 the wavelength to be transmitted.
            Compare them to dipole antennas generally used for shorter wavelengths,
            both in transmission and in reception, which are one half-wave long.
            A quarter-wave antenna may be seen to be completed to a dipole by its
            mirror image formed by a ground plane (usually the physical ground
            beneath it).



            The physical reason why an antenna is to be in a simple (1/4, 1/2)
            ratio to wavelength is not very easy to explain. Keep in mind that
            among e.m. devices antennas are the hardest to understand and also to
            design. They are at the interface between two domains: the one of
            electric circuits (resistors, capacitors, inductors, generators) and
            the one of e.m. waves. Furthermore, both in case of receiving and of
            transmitting anntennas it's of paramount importance their
            efficiency, i.e. their ability to emit the highest possible fraction
            of the power generated by the transmitter, or that to absorb and
            make usable by amplifying circuits as much power as possible from an
            impinging wave.



            As far as pure theory is concerned it wouldn't be necessary a special
            size for an antenna having to transmit a given wavelength (i.e. a given
            frequency). But on the practical side things are very different.
            Consider a Marconi antenna of the wrong size. In general it would be
            seen by transmitting equipment as a reactive load, i.e. a resistor
            in series with an inductor or a capacitor. An inductor if too long, a
            capacitor if too short. This can be cured by impedance matching: by
            adding in series to the antenna a capacitor in the former case, an
            inductor in the latter.



            But an antenna of the wrong length suffers another drawback: its
            radiation resistance (RR) drops substantially. RR multipled by
            current squared gives radiated power. So a low RR requires a higher
            current to give the required power, and this in turn requires a
            step-down transformer to match the high antenna current to the
            output characteristics of transmitter. The high antenna current
            moreover increases power dissipated in the unavoidable ohmic
            resistance, so that radiation efficiency lowers.






            share|cite|improve this answer























              12












              12








              12






              My answer is completely different. Longwave antennas usually are
              quarter-wave antennas, also known as Marconi antennas from its inventor. As the name says, they have length about 1/4 the wavelength to be transmitted.
              Compare them to dipole antennas generally used for shorter wavelengths,
              both in transmission and in reception, which are one half-wave long.
              A quarter-wave antenna may be seen to be completed to a dipole by its
              mirror image formed by a ground plane (usually the physical ground
              beneath it).



              The physical reason why an antenna is to be in a simple (1/4, 1/2)
              ratio to wavelength is not very easy to explain. Keep in mind that
              among e.m. devices antennas are the hardest to understand and also to
              design. They are at the interface between two domains: the one of
              electric circuits (resistors, capacitors, inductors, generators) and
              the one of e.m. waves. Furthermore, both in case of receiving and of
              transmitting anntennas it's of paramount importance their
              efficiency, i.e. their ability to emit the highest possible fraction
              of the power generated by the transmitter, or that to absorb and
              make usable by amplifying circuits as much power as possible from an
              impinging wave.



              As far as pure theory is concerned it wouldn't be necessary a special
              size for an antenna having to transmit a given wavelength (i.e. a given
              frequency). But on the practical side things are very different.
              Consider a Marconi antenna of the wrong size. In general it would be
              seen by transmitting equipment as a reactive load, i.e. a resistor
              in series with an inductor or a capacitor. An inductor if too long, a
              capacitor if too short. This can be cured by impedance matching: by
              adding in series to the antenna a capacitor in the former case, an
              inductor in the latter.



              But an antenna of the wrong length suffers another drawback: its
              radiation resistance (RR) drops substantially. RR multipled by
              current squared gives radiated power. So a low RR requires a higher
              current to give the required power, and this in turn requires a
              step-down transformer to match the high antenna current to the
              output characteristics of transmitter. The high antenna current
              moreover increases power dissipated in the unavoidable ohmic
              resistance, so that radiation efficiency lowers.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              My answer is completely different. Longwave antennas usually are
              quarter-wave antennas, also known as Marconi antennas from its inventor. As the name says, they have length about 1/4 the wavelength to be transmitted.
              Compare them to dipole antennas generally used for shorter wavelengths,
              both in transmission and in reception, which are one half-wave long.
              A quarter-wave antenna may be seen to be completed to a dipole by its
              mirror image formed by a ground plane (usually the physical ground
              beneath it).



              The physical reason why an antenna is to be in a simple (1/4, 1/2)
              ratio to wavelength is not very easy to explain. Keep in mind that
              among e.m. devices antennas are the hardest to understand and also to
              design. They are at the interface between two domains: the one of
              electric circuits (resistors, capacitors, inductors, generators) and
              the one of e.m. waves. Furthermore, both in case of receiving and of
              transmitting anntennas it's of paramount importance their
              efficiency, i.e. their ability to emit the highest possible fraction
              of the power generated by the transmitter, or that to absorb and
              make usable by amplifying circuits as much power as possible from an
              impinging wave.



              As far as pure theory is concerned it wouldn't be necessary a special
              size for an antenna having to transmit a given wavelength (i.e. a given
              frequency). But on the practical side things are very different.
              Consider a Marconi antenna of the wrong size. In general it would be
              seen by transmitting equipment as a reactive load, i.e. a resistor
              in series with an inductor or a capacitor. An inductor if too long, a
              capacitor if too short. This can be cured by impedance matching: by
              adding in series to the antenna a capacitor in the former case, an
              inductor in the latter.



              But an antenna of the wrong length suffers another drawback: its
              radiation resistance (RR) drops substantially. RR multipled by
              current squared gives radiated power. So a low RR requires a higher
              current to give the required power, and this in turn requires a
              step-down transformer to match the high antenna current to the
              output characteristics of transmitter. The high antenna current
              moreover increases power dissipated in the unavoidable ohmic
              resistance, so that radiation efficiency lowers.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Dec 23 '18 at 17:47









              Elio Fabri

              2,3451112




              2,3451112





















                  12














                  This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna, i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth.



                  The impedance of a short dipole of length $h$ and radius $a$ is approximately $Z_dipole approx 20 (kh)^2 - mathfrak j frac120(textrmln(h/a) -1)textrmtan(kh)$ with $k=2pi/lambda$. A short dipole, (infinitesimal or otherwise), one whose length is less than $lambda/10$ is, therefore, a frequency varying capacitor in series with a tiny radiation resistance, so it is almost an open circuit. To make this radiate one can just place a series inductor to resonate the capacitor "out".
                  So far so good but the radiation resistance is still in the micro- or milli-ohms, for example, a 1m long dipole at 1MHz has radiation resistance $800 textrmmOmega$.... Thus this antenna as a load represents an enormous reflector on a, say, $50Omega$ transmission line unless one also makes an impedance transformer to match it to the free space whose impedance is $120pi=377 Omega$.



                  One may try to add other reactive elements such as another inductor in parallel so that the two inductors also act as an impedance transformer but now one quickly runs into a very severe practical limitation: the larger the transformer ratio one needs the larger the circulating currents will be, and unfortunately the circuit losses are proportional to $I^2$. It is quite possible that the radiation resistance of a short dipole is in fact much less than the parasitic resistance of the matching network, and thus most of the transmitter's power is dissipated in the circuit (mostly in the coils) and not radiated out. Compare this case with that of a half-wave dipole whose impedance is almost real and $approx 73 Omega$.



                  One must also mention a further more subtle but in practice also more difficult complication. For a fixed antenna size as one increases the wavelength (reduces the frequency) the ratio of the reactance (imaginary part) to resistance (real part) of the antenna impedance also increases, in fact the increase is much faster than linear (quasi-exponential). This results in an essentially exponentially shrinking operating bandwidth because the lumped element matching circuit has an impedance that is a rational function (ratio of polynomials) of frequency. As an example, an AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is at worst a transmitter burner and at best a space heater...






                  share|cite|improve this answer

























                    12














                    This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna, i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth.



                    The impedance of a short dipole of length $h$ and radius $a$ is approximately $Z_dipole approx 20 (kh)^2 - mathfrak j frac120(textrmln(h/a) -1)textrmtan(kh)$ with $k=2pi/lambda$. A short dipole, (infinitesimal or otherwise), one whose length is less than $lambda/10$ is, therefore, a frequency varying capacitor in series with a tiny radiation resistance, so it is almost an open circuit. To make this radiate one can just place a series inductor to resonate the capacitor "out".
                    So far so good but the radiation resistance is still in the micro- or milli-ohms, for example, a 1m long dipole at 1MHz has radiation resistance $800 textrmmOmega$.... Thus this antenna as a load represents an enormous reflector on a, say, $50Omega$ transmission line unless one also makes an impedance transformer to match it to the free space whose impedance is $120pi=377 Omega$.



                    One may try to add other reactive elements such as another inductor in parallel so that the two inductors also act as an impedance transformer but now one quickly runs into a very severe practical limitation: the larger the transformer ratio one needs the larger the circulating currents will be, and unfortunately the circuit losses are proportional to $I^2$. It is quite possible that the radiation resistance of a short dipole is in fact much less than the parasitic resistance of the matching network, and thus most of the transmitter's power is dissipated in the circuit (mostly in the coils) and not radiated out. Compare this case with that of a half-wave dipole whose impedance is almost real and $approx 73 Omega$.



                    One must also mention a further more subtle but in practice also more difficult complication. For a fixed antenna size as one increases the wavelength (reduces the frequency) the ratio of the reactance (imaginary part) to resistance (real part) of the antenna impedance also increases, in fact the increase is much faster than linear (quasi-exponential). This results in an essentially exponentially shrinking operating bandwidth because the lumped element matching circuit has an impedance that is a rational function (ratio of polynomials) of frequency. As an example, an AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is at worst a transmitter burner and at best a space heater...






                    share|cite|improve this answer























                      12












                      12








                      12






                      This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna, i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth.



                      The impedance of a short dipole of length $h$ and radius $a$ is approximately $Z_dipole approx 20 (kh)^2 - mathfrak j frac120(textrmln(h/a) -1)textrmtan(kh)$ with $k=2pi/lambda$. A short dipole, (infinitesimal or otherwise), one whose length is less than $lambda/10$ is, therefore, a frequency varying capacitor in series with a tiny radiation resistance, so it is almost an open circuit. To make this radiate one can just place a series inductor to resonate the capacitor "out".
                      So far so good but the radiation resistance is still in the micro- or milli-ohms, for example, a 1m long dipole at 1MHz has radiation resistance $800 textrmmOmega$.... Thus this antenna as a load represents an enormous reflector on a, say, $50Omega$ transmission line unless one also makes an impedance transformer to match it to the free space whose impedance is $120pi=377 Omega$.



                      One may try to add other reactive elements such as another inductor in parallel so that the two inductors also act as an impedance transformer but now one quickly runs into a very severe practical limitation: the larger the transformer ratio one needs the larger the circulating currents will be, and unfortunately the circuit losses are proportional to $I^2$. It is quite possible that the radiation resistance of a short dipole is in fact much less than the parasitic resistance of the matching network, and thus most of the transmitter's power is dissipated in the circuit (mostly in the coils) and not radiated out. Compare this case with that of a half-wave dipole whose impedance is almost real and $approx 73 Omega$.



                      One must also mention a further more subtle but in practice also more difficult complication. For a fixed antenna size as one increases the wavelength (reduces the frequency) the ratio of the reactance (imaginary part) to resistance (real part) of the antenna impedance also increases, in fact the increase is much faster than linear (quasi-exponential). This results in an essentially exponentially shrinking operating bandwidth because the lumped element matching circuit has an impedance that is a rational function (ratio of polynomials) of frequency. As an example, an AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is at worst a transmitter burner and at best a space heater...






                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      This is a problem of impedance matching for even an infinitesimally small antenna, i.e., a Hertz dipole (or monopole above a ground plane) can perfectly transmit and be perfectly matched to a pure sine wave. What it cannot do is to be matched to a signal of finite bandwidth.



                      The impedance of a short dipole of length $h$ and radius $a$ is approximately $Z_dipole approx 20 (kh)^2 - mathfrak j frac120(textrmln(h/a) -1)textrmtan(kh)$ with $k=2pi/lambda$. A short dipole, (infinitesimal or otherwise), one whose length is less than $lambda/10$ is, therefore, a frequency varying capacitor in series with a tiny radiation resistance, so it is almost an open circuit. To make this radiate one can just place a series inductor to resonate the capacitor "out".
                      So far so good but the radiation resistance is still in the micro- or milli-ohms, for example, a 1m long dipole at 1MHz has radiation resistance $800 textrmmOmega$.... Thus this antenna as a load represents an enormous reflector on a, say, $50Omega$ transmission line unless one also makes an impedance transformer to match it to the free space whose impedance is $120pi=377 Omega$.



                      One may try to add other reactive elements such as another inductor in parallel so that the two inductors also act as an impedance transformer but now one quickly runs into a very severe practical limitation: the larger the transformer ratio one needs the larger the circulating currents will be, and unfortunately the circuit losses are proportional to $I^2$. It is quite possible that the radiation resistance of a short dipole is in fact much less than the parasitic resistance of the matching network, and thus most of the transmitter's power is dissipated in the circuit (mostly in the coils) and not radiated out. Compare this case with that of a half-wave dipole whose impedance is almost real and $approx 73 Omega$.



                      One must also mention a further more subtle but in practice also more difficult complication. For a fixed antenna size as one increases the wavelength (reduces the frequency) the ratio of the reactance (imaginary part) to resistance (real part) of the antenna impedance also increases, in fact the increase is much faster than linear (quasi-exponential). This results in an essentially exponentially shrinking operating bandwidth because the lumped element matching circuit has an impedance that is a rational function (ratio of polynomials) of frequency. As an example, an AM radio transmitter needs about 5kHz effective bandwidth, and that is a lot at 500kHz carrier frequency (1%). A badly matched antenna is at worst a transmitter burner and at best a space heater...







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Dec 23 '18 at 21:13









                      hyportnex

                      4,2471824




                      4,2471824





















                          6














                          Antenna performance is strongly affected by the presence of the ground nearby. The standard rule of thumb is to raise the antenna to a height above ground of about one half of the wavelength it will operate at, in order to minimize power loss in the ground and radiation directionality effects. At low frequencies- say, ~1 MHz- the wavelength is 300 meters which would put the antenna wire 150 meters above ground. It is not uncommon to take some effectiveness loss and raise the antenna up 1/4 wavelength instead.






                          share|cite|improve this answer


















                          • 3




                            I think you meant 1 MHz ($=10^6$ Hz) not 1 mHz ($=10^-3$ Hz).
                            – Gary Godfrey
                            Dec 23 '18 at 9:55










                          • of course, thanks, will edit.
                            – niels nielsen
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:39















                          6














                          Antenna performance is strongly affected by the presence of the ground nearby. The standard rule of thumb is to raise the antenna to a height above ground of about one half of the wavelength it will operate at, in order to minimize power loss in the ground and radiation directionality effects. At low frequencies- say, ~1 MHz- the wavelength is 300 meters which would put the antenna wire 150 meters above ground. It is not uncommon to take some effectiveness loss and raise the antenna up 1/4 wavelength instead.






                          share|cite|improve this answer


















                          • 3




                            I think you meant 1 MHz ($=10^6$ Hz) not 1 mHz ($=10^-3$ Hz).
                            – Gary Godfrey
                            Dec 23 '18 at 9:55










                          • of course, thanks, will edit.
                            – niels nielsen
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:39













                          6












                          6








                          6






                          Antenna performance is strongly affected by the presence of the ground nearby. The standard rule of thumb is to raise the antenna to a height above ground of about one half of the wavelength it will operate at, in order to minimize power loss in the ground and radiation directionality effects. At low frequencies- say, ~1 MHz- the wavelength is 300 meters which would put the antenna wire 150 meters above ground. It is not uncommon to take some effectiveness loss and raise the antenna up 1/4 wavelength instead.






                          share|cite|improve this answer














                          Antenna performance is strongly affected by the presence of the ground nearby. The standard rule of thumb is to raise the antenna to a height above ground of about one half of the wavelength it will operate at, in order to minimize power loss in the ground and radiation directionality effects. At low frequencies- say, ~1 MHz- the wavelength is 300 meters which would put the antenna wire 150 meters above ground. It is not uncommon to take some effectiveness loss and raise the antenna up 1/4 wavelength instead.







                          share|cite|improve this answer














                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          edited Dec 23 '18 at 19:39

























                          answered Dec 23 '18 at 6:53









                          niels nielsen

                          16.3k42754




                          16.3k42754







                          • 3




                            I think you meant 1 MHz ($=10^6$ Hz) not 1 mHz ($=10^-3$ Hz).
                            – Gary Godfrey
                            Dec 23 '18 at 9:55










                          • of course, thanks, will edit.
                            – niels nielsen
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:39












                          • 3




                            I think you meant 1 MHz ($=10^6$ Hz) not 1 mHz ($=10^-3$ Hz).
                            – Gary Godfrey
                            Dec 23 '18 at 9:55










                          • of course, thanks, will edit.
                            – niels nielsen
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:39







                          3




                          3




                          I think you meant 1 MHz ($=10^6$ Hz) not 1 mHz ($=10^-3$ Hz).
                          – Gary Godfrey
                          Dec 23 '18 at 9:55




                          I think you meant 1 MHz ($=10^6$ Hz) not 1 mHz ($=10^-3$ Hz).
                          – Gary Godfrey
                          Dec 23 '18 at 9:55












                          of course, thanks, will edit.
                          – niels nielsen
                          Dec 23 '18 at 19:39




                          of course, thanks, will edit.
                          – niels nielsen
                          Dec 23 '18 at 19:39











                          5















                          ... to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency




                          That is the point. For lower frequency the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod. Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast, the power of the antenna generator would not do work, but only heat the system. The frequency, one want to transmit and the length of the rod are not independent regarding the energy efficiency and the quality of the sine form of the transmitted energy.



                          To give an example of a sharp pulsed wave signal try to imagine what happens with the electrons inside a superconducting rod. The generator nearly at once pushes all available electrons to the end of the rod and after until the end of the first half cycle runs again a huge ohmic resistance (we are tolking about an open circuit). The accelerated electrons emit at one moment a huge number of photons - I suppose in the range of X-Rays - and after nothing and only with the beginning of the second half cycle of the generator the same emission happens again, this time in the opposite direction of course.




                          It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna




                          For very low frequencies it is impossible to built such long antennas. But it’s helpful to add to the end of the rod additional metal which works like a capacitor Dachkapazität (available only in the German wiki). So the acceleration of photons lasts longer and the efficiency of the generator and the quality of the wave is improved.



                          enter image description here
                          Source






                          share|cite|improve this answer


















                          • 4




                            IMHO there is no meaningful physics in your answer. For instance, apparently you have no idea of how electrons move in a conducting wire. At frequencies of many kHz electrons oscillate in a very very short distance. I made no estimate, but if you wish I'll do.
                            – Elio Fabri
                            Dec 23 '18 at 20:03










                          • @ElioFabri I’m aware of the drift velocity and I wrote „Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast...“. Did you agree, that then lower the frequency - for rods of the same length-, then more electrons “fill” the end of the rod?
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 23 '18 at 21:00











                          • @The_Sympathizer A potential difference between the generator and the end of the rod travels with maximum the drift velocity of the conductor. The heigher the generators frequency the faster the drift changes its sign. In the case of low frequencies the drift finishes before the generator changes its potential and instead of a sine signal one get peaks. To last the drift longer, the roof capacity was invented. And about an electron, “moving all the way”, please change the text, if you think that this was written in it. It was not my intention, to be understood like you interpret it.
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 24 '18 at 6:30







                          • 1




                            Dachkapazität in English is called a capacitance or capacity hat, or a top load.
                            – Phil Frost
                            Dec 26 '18 at 13:27











                          • "...the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod." Sorry, they are not inside, because of the Skin Effect.
                            – Mike Waters
                            Dec 28 '18 at 2:46
















                          5















                          ... to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency




                          That is the point. For lower frequency the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod. Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast, the power of the antenna generator would not do work, but only heat the system. The frequency, one want to transmit and the length of the rod are not independent regarding the energy efficiency and the quality of the sine form of the transmitted energy.



                          To give an example of a sharp pulsed wave signal try to imagine what happens with the electrons inside a superconducting rod. The generator nearly at once pushes all available electrons to the end of the rod and after until the end of the first half cycle runs again a huge ohmic resistance (we are tolking about an open circuit). The accelerated electrons emit at one moment a huge number of photons - I suppose in the range of X-Rays - and after nothing and only with the beginning of the second half cycle of the generator the same emission happens again, this time in the opposite direction of course.




                          It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna




                          For very low frequencies it is impossible to built such long antennas. But it’s helpful to add to the end of the rod additional metal which works like a capacitor Dachkapazität (available only in the German wiki). So the acceleration of photons lasts longer and the efficiency of the generator and the quality of the wave is improved.



                          enter image description here
                          Source






                          share|cite|improve this answer


















                          • 4




                            IMHO there is no meaningful physics in your answer. For instance, apparently you have no idea of how electrons move in a conducting wire. At frequencies of many kHz electrons oscillate in a very very short distance. I made no estimate, but if you wish I'll do.
                            – Elio Fabri
                            Dec 23 '18 at 20:03










                          • @ElioFabri I’m aware of the drift velocity and I wrote „Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast...“. Did you agree, that then lower the frequency - for rods of the same length-, then more electrons “fill” the end of the rod?
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 23 '18 at 21:00











                          • @The_Sympathizer A potential difference between the generator and the end of the rod travels with maximum the drift velocity of the conductor. The heigher the generators frequency the faster the drift changes its sign. In the case of low frequencies the drift finishes before the generator changes its potential and instead of a sine signal one get peaks. To last the drift longer, the roof capacity was invented. And about an electron, “moving all the way”, please change the text, if you think that this was written in it. It was not my intention, to be understood like you interpret it.
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 24 '18 at 6:30







                          • 1




                            Dachkapazität in English is called a capacitance or capacity hat, or a top load.
                            – Phil Frost
                            Dec 26 '18 at 13:27











                          • "...the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod." Sorry, they are not inside, because of the Skin Effect.
                            – Mike Waters
                            Dec 28 '18 at 2:46














                          5












                          5








                          5







                          ... to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency




                          That is the point. For lower frequency the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod. Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast, the power of the antenna generator would not do work, but only heat the system. The frequency, one want to transmit and the length of the rod are not independent regarding the energy efficiency and the quality of the sine form of the transmitted energy.



                          To give an example of a sharp pulsed wave signal try to imagine what happens with the electrons inside a superconducting rod. The generator nearly at once pushes all available electrons to the end of the rod and after until the end of the first half cycle runs again a huge ohmic resistance (we are tolking about an open circuit). The accelerated electrons emit at one moment a huge number of photons - I suppose in the range of X-Rays - and after nothing and only with the beginning of the second half cycle of the generator the same emission happens again, this time in the opposite direction of course.




                          It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna




                          For very low frequencies it is impossible to built such long antennas. But it’s helpful to add to the end of the rod additional metal which works like a capacitor Dachkapazität (available only in the German wiki). So the acceleration of photons lasts longer and the efficiency of the generator and the quality of the wave is improved.



                          enter image description here
                          Source






                          share|cite|improve this answer















                          ... to transmit in the longwave region, we only need to make the circuit oscillate in the right frequency




                          That is the point. For lower frequency the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod. Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast, the power of the antenna generator would not do work, but only heat the system. The frequency, one want to transmit and the length of the rod are not independent regarding the energy efficiency and the quality of the sine form of the transmitted energy.



                          To give an example of a sharp pulsed wave signal try to imagine what happens with the electrons inside a superconducting rod. The generator nearly at once pushes all available electrons to the end of the rod and after until the end of the first half cycle runs again a huge ohmic resistance (we are tolking about an open circuit). The accelerated electrons emit at one moment a huge number of photons - I suppose in the range of X-Rays - and after nothing and only with the beginning of the second half cycle of the generator the same emission happens again, this time in the opposite direction of course.




                          It has nothing to do with the size of the antenna




                          For very low frequencies it is impossible to built such long antennas. But it’s helpful to add to the end of the rod additional metal which works like a capacitor Dachkapazität (available only in the German wiki). So the acceleration of photons lasts longer and the efficiency of the generator and the quality of the wave is improved.



                          enter image description here
                          Source







                          share|cite|improve this answer














                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          edited Dec 23 '18 at 8:15

























                          answered Dec 23 '18 at 8:08









                          HolgerFiedler

                          4,15131134




                          4,15131134







                          • 4




                            IMHO there is no meaningful physics in your answer. For instance, apparently you have no idea of how electrons move in a conducting wire. At frequencies of many kHz electrons oscillate in a very very short distance. I made no estimate, but if you wish I'll do.
                            – Elio Fabri
                            Dec 23 '18 at 20:03










                          • @ElioFabri I’m aware of the drift velocity and I wrote „Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast...“. Did you agree, that then lower the frequency - for rods of the same length-, then more electrons “fill” the end of the rod?
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 23 '18 at 21:00











                          • @The_Sympathizer A potential difference between the generator and the end of the rod travels with maximum the drift velocity of the conductor. The heigher the generators frequency the faster the drift changes its sign. In the case of low frequencies the drift finishes before the generator changes its potential and instead of a sine signal one get peaks. To last the drift longer, the roof capacity was invented. And about an electron, “moving all the way”, please change the text, if you think that this was written in it. It was not my intention, to be understood like you interpret it.
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 24 '18 at 6:30







                          • 1




                            Dachkapazität in English is called a capacitance or capacity hat, or a top load.
                            – Phil Frost
                            Dec 26 '18 at 13:27











                          • "...the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod." Sorry, they are not inside, because of the Skin Effect.
                            – Mike Waters
                            Dec 28 '18 at 2:46













                          • 4




                            IMHO there is no meaningful physics in your answer. For instance, apparently you have no idea of how electrons move in a conducting wire. At frequencies of many kHz electrons oscillate in a very very short distance. I made no estimate, but if you wish I'll do.
                            – Elio Fabri
                            Dec 23 '18 at 20:03










                          • @ElioFabri I’m aware of the drift velocity and I wrote „Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast...“. Did you agree, that then lower the frequency - for rods of the same length-, then more electrons “fill” the end of the rod?
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 23 '18 at 21:00











                          • @The_Sympathizer A potential difference between the generator and the end of the rod travels with maximum the drift velocity of the conductor. The heigher the generators frequency the faster the drift changes its sign. In the case of low frequencies the drift finishes before the generator changes its potential and instead of a sine signal one get peaks. To last the drift longer, the roof capacity was invented. And about an electron, “moving all the way”, please change the text, if you think that this was written in it. It was not my intention, to be understood like you interpret it.
                            – HolgerFiedler
                            Dec 24 '18 at 6:30







                          • 1




                            Dachkapazität in English is called a capacitance or capacity hat, or a top load.
                            – Phil Frost
                            Dec 26 '18 at 13:27











                          • "...the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod." Sorry, they are not inside, because of the Skin Effect.
                            – Mike Waters
                            Dec 28 '18 at 2:46








                          4




                          4




                          IMHO there is no meaningful physics in your answer. For instance, apparently you have no idea of how electrons move in a conducting wire. At frequencies of many kHz electrons oscillate in a very very short distance. I made no estimate, but if you wish I'll do.
                          – Elio Fabri
                          Dec 23 '18 at 20:03




                          IMHO there is no meaningful physics in your answer. For instance, apparently you have no idea of how electrons move in a conducting wire. At frequencies of many kHz electrons oscillate in a very very short distance. I made no estimate, but if you wish I'll do.
                          – Elio Fabri
                          Dec 23 '18 at 20:03












                          @ElioFabri I’m aware of the drift velocity and I wrote „Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast...“. Did you agree, that then lower the frequency - for rods of the same length-, then more electrons “fill” the end of the rod?
                          – HolgerFiedler
                          Dec 23 '18 at 21:00





                          @ElioFabri I’m aware of the drift velocity and I wrote „Would the disturbance of these electrons reach the end of the rod too fast...“. Did you agree, that then lower the frequency - for rods of the same length-, then more electrons “fill” the end of the rod?
                          – HolgerFiedler
                          Dec 23 '18 at 21:00













                          @The_Sympathizer A potential difference between the generator and the end of the rod travels with maximum the drift velocity of the conductor. The heigher the generators frequency the faster the drift changes its sign. In the case of low frequencies the drift finishes before the generator changes its potential and instead of a sine signal one get peaks. To last the drift longer, the roof capacity was invented. And about an electron, “moving all the way”, please change the text, if you think that this was written in it. It was not my intention, to be understood like you interpret it.
                          – HolgerFiedler
                          Dec 24 '18 at 6:30





                          @The_Sympathizer A potential difference between the generator and the end of the rod travels with maximum the drift velocity of the conductor. The heigher the generators frequency the faster the drift changes its sign. In the case of low frequencies the drift finishes before the generator changes its potential and instead of a sine signal one get peaks. To last the drift longer, the roof capacity was invented. And about an electron, “moving all the way”, please change the text, if you think that this was written in it. It was not my intention, to be understood like you interpret it.
                          – HolgerFiedler
                          Dec 24 '18 at 6:30





                          1




                          1




                          Dachkapazität in English is called a capacitance or capacity hat, or a top load.
                          – Phil Frost
                          Dec 26 '18 at 13:27





                          Dachkapazität in English is called a capacitance or capacity hat, or a top load.
                          – Phil Frost
                          Dec 26 '18 at 13:27













                          "...the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod." Sorry, they are not inside, because of the Skin Effect.
                          – Mike Waters
                          Dec 28 '18 at 2:46





                          "...the electrons - which are accelerated inside the antenna rod -, need a longer distance inside the rod." Sorry, they are not inside, because of the Skin Effect.
                          – Mike Waters
                          Dec 28 '18 at 2:46












                          2














                          Most antennas are "line of sight". That is, you want the EM wave to pass through as little obstructions as possible, as the the photons will have a higher likelihood of scattering in random directions or being absorbed. So to maximize coherence of the signal we try to limit the amount of obstructions it comes in contact with.



                          Since they are radio waves they can pass through most things, but you don't want them to pass through very thick media like mountains etc as the will make the signal weaker.






                          share|cite|improve this answer
















                          • 9




                            Most antennas are "line of sight". - This is not true at longwave frequencies. The BBC longwave transmitter at Droitwich (UK) is intended cover the whole of England and Wales, but in practice it can be easily received by British ex-pats in the south of France, and even as far away as Italy.
                            – alephzero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 14:54







                          • 2




                            Moreover the ionosphere will function like a mirror and will bounce the signal back towards earth.
                            – ZeroTheHero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:28















                          2














                          Most antennas are "line of sight". That is, you want the EM wave to pass through as little obstructions as possible, as the the photons will have a higher likelihood of scattering in random directions or being absorbed. So to maximize coherence of the signal we try to limit the amount of obstructions it comes in contact with.



                          Since they are radio waves they can pass through most things, but you don't want them to pass through very thick media like mountains etc as the will make the signal weaker.






                          share|cite|improve this answer
















                          • 9




                            Most antennas are "line of sight". - This is not true at longwave frequencies. The BBC longwave transmitter at Droitwich (UK) is intended cover the whole of England and Wales, but in practice it can be easily received by British ex-pats in the south of France, and even as far away as Italy.
                            – alephzero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 14:54







                          • 2




                            Moreover the ionosphere will function like a mirror and will bounce the signal back towards earth.
                            – ZeroTheHero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:28













                          2












                          2








                          2






                          Most antennas are "line of sight". That is, you want the EM wave to pass through as little obstructions as possible, as the the photons will have a higher likelihood of scattering in random directions or being absorbed. So to maximize coherence of the signal we try to limit the amount of obstructions it comes in contact with.



                          Since they are radio waves they can pass through most things, but you don't want them to pass through very thick media like mountains etc as the will make the signal weaker.






                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          Most antennas are "line of sight". That is, you want the EM wave to pass through as little obstructions as possible, as the the photons will have a higher likelihood of scattering in random directions or being absorbed. So to maximize coherence of the signal we try to limit the amount of obstructions it comes in contact with.



                          Since they are radio waves they can pass through most things, but you don't want them to pass through very thick media like mountains etc as the will make the signal weaker.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Dec 23 '18 at 6:49









                          InertialObserver

                          1,831618




                          1,831618







                          • 9




                            Most antennas are "line of sight". - This is not true at longwave frequencies. The BBC longwave transmitter at Droitwich (UK) is intended cover the whole of England and Wales, but in practice it can be easily received by British ex-pats in the south of France, and even as far away as Italy.
                            – alephzero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 14:54







                          • 2




                            Moreover the ionosphere will function like a mirror and will bounce the signal back towards earth.
                            – ZeroTheHero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:28












                          • 9




                            Most antennas are "line of sight". - This is not true at longwave frequencies. The BBC longwave transmitter at Droitwich (UK) is intended cover the whole of England and Wales, but in practice it can be easily received by British ex-pats in the south of France, and even as far away as Italy.
                            – alephzero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 14:54







                          • 2




                            Moreover the ionosphere will function like a mirror and will bounce the signal back towards earth.
                            – ZeroTheHero
                            Dec 23 '18 at 19:28







                          9




                          9




                          Most antennas are "line of sight". - This is not true at longwave frequencies. The BBC longwave transmitter at Droitwich (UK) is intended cover the whole of England and Wales, but in practice it can be easily received by British ex-pats in the south of France, and even as far away as Italy.
                          – alephzero
                          Dec 23 '18 at 14:54





                          Most antennas are "line of sight". - This is not true at longwave frequencies. The BBC longwave transmitter at Droitwich (UK) is intended cover the whole of England and Wales, but in practice it can be easily received by British ex-pats in the south of France, and even as far away as Italy.
                          – alephzero
                          Dec 23 '18 at 14:54





                          2




                          2




                          Moreover the ionosphere will function like a mirror and will bounce the signal back towards earth.
                          – ZeroTheHero
                          Dec 23 '18 at 19:28




                          Moreover the ionosphere will function like a mirror and will bounce the signal back towards earth.
                          – ZeroTheHero
                          Dec 23 '18 at 19:28











                          2














                          $letd=delta letlam=lambda letom=omega lets=sigma
                          letOm=Omega defqy#1#2#1,mathrm#2 defRrR_mathrm r
                          defhalf1 over 2 def10#1#2#1cdot10^#2
                          defPD#1#2partial#1 over partial#2$

                          I want to add another answer rather than editing the former, since what
                          follows is strictly connected to @The_Sympathizer's answer. On the
                          other hand a comment is too much limited in size for my reasoning.



                          Let me first correct a minor point. The_Sympathizer writes




                          To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that
                          is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and
                          sound.




                          In fact the shortest resonant length is $lam/2$ ($lam/4$ for the
                          "virtual" one). The same holds for organ pipes and other wind
                          instruments too).



                          But my central argument is the following. The_Sympathizer writes




                          you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the
                          frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one
                          half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other
                          half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave
                          cycle.




                          This is true but raises a doubt. How can such imbalance arise if not
                          with electrons migrating from one side ot the antenna to the opposite?
                          Strange as it may appear, the only way to solve the issue is in
                          examining some numbers.



                          Let's begin by choosing a reasonable size for the antenna and its
                          power. There is a considerable range of possible values, from high
                          frequency low power amateur transmitters to low frequency extra-high
                          power broadcasters. I'll take values rather near the former limit, but any reader will be able to change numbers and follow how that
                          modifies my conclusions - if it does. Then




                          • $nu = qy100MHz quad lam = qy 3 m$ (frequency, wavelength)


                          • $l = lam/4 = qy0.75m$ (1/2 antenna length)


                          • $d = qy1cm = qy0.01m$ (diameter of antenna conductor)


                          • $I_0 = qy 2 A$ (peak antenna current).

                          Given radiation resistance $Rr = qy73Om$ radiated power is
                          $half,Rr,I_0^2 = qy146W$.



                          We'll also need the effective conductor cross section, taking into
                          account skin effect. From
                          https://chemandy.com/calculators/skin-effect-calculator.htm
                          we get



                          • skin effect depth $d = qy6.5mu m$

                          and cross section is $s = pi dd = qy102.0-7m^2$.



                          Another datum we need is electron number density $n$ (number of free
                          electrons per unit volume). It the antenna is made of copper, assuming
                          one free electron per atom, from known density of copper and its
                          atomic mass we have




                          • $n = qy108.528m^-3 $ (electron number density).


                          We're now ready to begin reasoning. In our antenna a standing wave is present, of wavelength $lam$ and frequency $nu$. All interesting quantities must have an expression consistent with the standing wave and relevant boundary conditions. For instance the current will be
                          $$I(x,t) = I_0 cos kx ,cos om t qquad
                          left(!k = 2pi over lam,quad
                          om = 2pinu = c,k!right)$$

                          (We must choose $cos kx$ in order that $I$ vanishes at antenna's ends ($x=l$). The choice $cosom t$ for time dependence is arbitrary, only amounting to fix the wave's phase at $t=0$.)



                          We have in general
                          $$I = -n,s,e,v$$
                          ($v$ average electrons speed in point $x$ at time $t$). If we assume a collective average motion of electrons, described by a displacement $D(x,t)$, we'll write
                          $$v = PD Dt.$$
                          Then
                          $$PD Dt = -I over n,s,e$$
                          immediately integrable to
                          $$D = -I_0 over n,s,e,om,cos kx,sinom t.$$
                          So the maximum displacement occurs at antenna centre ($x=0$) and is
                          $$|D_0| = I_0 over n,s,e,om =
                          qy101.2-12m = qy1.2pm.$$




                          When a physicist encounters such n unbelievable result he has two moral duties:



                          • to check his reasoning and calculations as accurately as he can

                          • to find an alternative way to reach, at least grossly, the same
                            result.

                          You have only my word on the first point - about the second here's
                          my proposal.



                          We have a current of $qy2A$ peak at $qy100MHz$ on our antenna.
                          So it alternates 200 million times a second and in 1/(200 millionth)
                          of a second it transfers a charge of 2/(200 million) = $qy10^-8C$
                          from - say - left side to right side of the antenna (actually less,
                          since current is not constant at its peak value, but too bad - it
                          means that we are overextimating the transferred charge).



                          This charge amounts to a number of electrons:
                          $$10^-8 over 101.6-19 = 10 610.$$



                          If there is one free electron per Cu atom, the interested volume will be $10 610$ times the volume occupied by an atom. How can we
                          estimate such volume?



                          I know by heart some data:



                          • Cu molar mass (atomic weight): about $qy60g/mol$

                          • Avogadro's constant: $qy10 623mol^-1.$

                          These give me the mass of one Cu atom:
                          $$qy60g/mol over qy10 623mol^-1 = qy10^-22g.$$
                          Now using



                          • Cu density: about $qy9g/cm^3$

                          I find the volume occupied by one atom:



                          $$qy10^-22g over qy9g/cm^3 = qy10^-23cm^3 =
                          qy10^-29m^3.$$



                          Now the total volume of copper interested by charge displacement is
                          $$10 610 times qy10^-29m^3 = qy10 6-19m^3.$$
                          I had already computed (and re-checked) the cross section:
                          $$qy10 2-7m^2$$
                          and the above volume corresponds to a displacement
                          $$qy10 6-19m^3 over qy10 2-7m^2 = qy10 3-12m$$




                          Conclusion. You may change the initial data as you like. The result is so small that you will never be able to turn it into a significant one. This solves our doubt: there are so many electrons in the antenna that in order to produce an important charge imbalance (and a relevant radiation power) only a very very small fraction of them are to be moved.



                          A final comment. I spent a not negligible part of my time in writing the above as I found it a very useful lesson - an impressive example of a general truth. You can't understand physics, also in its seemingly intuitive aspects, without grounding your reasoning on a sound quantitative basis. Physics without numbers is just chatter.






                          share|cite|improve this answer



























                            2














                            $letd=delta letlam=lambda letom=omega lets=sigma
                            letOm=Omega defqy#1#2#1,mathrm#2 defRrR_mathrm r
                            defhalf1 over 2 def10#1#2#1cdot10^#2
                            defPD#1#2partial#1 over partial#2$

                            I want to add another answer rather than editing the former, since what
                            follows is strictly connected to @The_Sympathizer's answer. On the
                            other hand a comment is too much limited in size for my reasoning.



                            Let me first correct a minor point. The_Sympathizer writes




                            To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that
                            is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and
                            sound.




                            In fact the shortest resonant length is $lam/2$ ($lam/4$ for the
                            "virtual" one). The same holds for organ pipes and other wind
                            instruments too).



                            But my central argument is the following. The_Sympathizer writes




                            you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the
                            frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one
                            half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other
                            half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave
                            cycle.




                            This is true but raises a doubt. How can such imbalance arise if not
                            with electrons migrating from one side ot the antenna to the opposite?
                            Strange as it may appear, the only way to solve the issue is in
                            examining some numbers.



                            Let's begin by choosing a reasonable size for the antenna and its
                            power. There is a considerable range of possible values, from high
                            frequency low power amateur transmitters to low frequency extra-high
                            power broadcasters. I'll take values rather near the former limit, but any reader will be able to change numbers and follow how that
                            modifies my conclusions - if it does. Then




                            • $nu = qy100MHz quad lam = qy 3 m$ (frequency, wavelength)


                            • $l = lam/4 = qy0.75m$ (1/2 antenna length)


                            • $d = qy1cm = qy0.01m$ (diameter of antenna conductor)


                            • $I_0 = qy 2 A$ (peak antenna current).

                            Given radiation resistance $Rr = qy73Om$ radiated power is
                            $half,Rr,I_0^2 = qy146W$.



                            We'll also need the effective conductor cross section, taking into
                            account skin effect. From
                            https://chemandy.com/calculators/skin-effect-calculator.htm
                            we get



                            • skin effect depth $d = qy6.5mu m$

                            and cross section is $s = pi dd = qy102.0-7m^2$.



                            Another datum we need is electron number density $n$ (number of free
                            electrons per unit volume). It the antenna is made of copper, assuming
                            one free electron per atom, from known density of copper and its
                            atomic mass we have




                            • $n = qy108.528m^-3 $ (electron number density).


                            We're now ready to begin reasoning. In our antenna a standing wave is present, of wavelength $lam$ and frequency $nu$. All interesting quantities must have an expression consistent with the standing wave and relevant boundary conditions. For instance the current will be
                            $$I(x,t) = I_0 cos kx ,cos om t qquad
                            left(!k = 2pi over lam,quad
                            om = 2pinu = c,k!right)$$

                            (We must choose $cos kx$ in order that $I$ vanishes at antenna's ends ($x=l$). The choice $cosom t$ for time dependence is arbitrary, only amounting to fix the wave's phase at $t=0$.)



                            We have in general
                            $$I = -n,s,e,v$$
                            ($v$ average electrons speed in point $x$ at time $t$). If we assume a collective average motion of electrons, described by a displacement $D(x,t)$, we'll write
                            $$v = PD Dt.$$
                            Then
                            $$PD Dt = -I over n,s,e$$
                            immediately integrable to
                            $$D = -I_0 over n,s,e,om,cos kx,sinom t.$$
                            So the maximum displacement occurs at antenna centre ($x=0$) and is
                            $$|D_0| = I_0 over n,s,e,om =
                            qy101.2-12m = qy1.2pm.$$




                            When a physicist encounters such n unbelievable result he has two moral duties:



                            • to check his reasoning and calculations as accurately as he can

                            • to find an alternative way to reach, at least grossly, the same
                              result.

                            You have only my word on the first point - about the second here's
                            my proposal.



                            We have a current of $qy2A$ peak at $qy100MHz$ on our antenna.
                            So it alternates 200 million times a second and in 1/(200 millionth)
                            of a second it transfers a charge of 2/(200 million) = $qy10^-8C$
                            from - say - left side to right side of the antenna (actually less,
                            since current is not constant at its peak value, but too bad - it
                            means that we are overextimating the transferred charge).



                            This charge amounts to a number of electrons:
                            $$10^-8 over 101.6-19 = 10 610.$$



                            If there is one free electron per Cu atom, the interested volume will be $10 610$ times the volume occupied by an atom. How can we
                            estimate such volume?



                            I know by heart some data:



                            • Cu molar mass (atomic weight): about $qy60g/mol$

                            • Avogadro's constant: $qy10 623mol^-1.$

                            These give me the mass of one Cu atom:
                            $$qy60g/mol over qy10 623mol^-1 = qy10^-22g.$$
                            Now using



                            • Cu density: about $qy9g/cm^3$

                            I find the volume occupied by one atom:



                            $$qy10^-22g over qy9g/cm^3 = qy10^-23cm^3 =
                            qy10^-29m^3.$$



                            Now the total volume of copper interested by charge displacement is
                            $$10 610 times qy10^-29m^3 = qy10 6-19m^3.$$
                            I had already computed (and re-checked) the cross section:
                            $$qy10 2-7m^2$$
                            and the above volume corresponds to a displacement
                            $$qy10 6-19m^3 over qy10 2-7m^2 = qy10 3-12m$$




                            Conclusion. You may change the initial data as you like. The result is so small that you will never be able to turn it into a significant one. This solves our doubt: there are so many electrons in the antenna that in order to produce an important charge imbalance (and a relevant radiation power) only a very very small fraction of them are to be moved.



                            A final comment. I spent a not negligible part of my time in writing the above as I found it a very useful lesson - an impressive example of a general truth. You can't understand physics, also in its seemingly intuitive aspects, without grounding your reasoning on a sound quantitative basis. Physics without numbers is just chatter.






                            share|cite|improve this answer

























                              2












                              2








                              2






                              $letd=delta letlam=lambda letom=omega lets=sigma
                              letOm=Omega defqy#1#2#1,mathrm#2 defRrR_mathrm r
                              defhalf1 over 2 def10#1#2#1cdot10^#2
                              defPD#1#2partial#1 over partial#2$

                              I want to add another answer rather than editing the former, since what
                              follows is strictly connected to @The_Sympathizer's answer. On the
                              other hand a comment is too much limited in size for my reasoning.



                              Let me first correct a minor point. The_Sympathizer writes




                              To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that
                              is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and
                              sound.




                              In fact the shortest resonant length is $lam/2$ ($lam/4$ for the
                              "virtual" one). The same holds for organ pipes and other wind
                              instruments too).



                              But my central argument is the following. The_Sympathizer writes




                              you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the
                              frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one
                              half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other
                              half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave
                              cycle.




                              This is true but raises a doubt. How can such imbalance arise if not
                              with electrons migrating from one side ot the antenna to the opposite?
                              Strange as it may appear, the only way to solve the issue is in
                              examining some numbers.



                              Let's begin by choosing a reasonable size for the antenna and its
                              power. There is a considerable range of possible values, from high
                              frequency low power amateur transmitters to low frequency extra-high
                              power broadcasters. I'll take values rather near the former limit, but any reader will be able to change numbers and follow how that
                              modifies my conclusions - if it does. Then




                              • $nu = qy100MHz quad lam = qy 3 m$ (frequency, wavelength)


                              • $l = lam/4 = qy0.75m$ (1/2 antenna length)


                              • $d = qy1cm = qy0.01m$ (diameter of antenna conductor)


                              • $I_0 = qy 2 A$ (peak antenna current).

                              Given radiation resistance $Rr = qy73Om$ radiated power is
                              $half,Rr,I_0^2 = qy146W$.



                              We'll also need the effective conductor cross section, taking into
                              account skin effect. From
                              https://chemandy.com/calculators/skin-effect-calculator.htm
                              we get



                              • skin effect depth $d = qy6.5mu m$

                              and cross section is $s = pi dd = qy102.0-7m^2$.



                              Another datum we need is electron number density $n$ (number of free
                              electrons per unit volume). It the antenna is made of copper, assuming
                              one free electron per atom, from known density of copper and its
                              atomic mass we have




                              • $n = qy108.528m^-3 $ (electron number density).


                              We're now ready to begin reasoning. In our antenna a standing wave is present, of wavelength $lam$ and frequency $nu$. All interesting quantities must have an expression consistent with the standing wave and relevant boundary conditions. For instance the current will be
                              $$I(x,t) = I_0 cos kx ,cos om t qquad
                              left(!k = 2pi over lam,quad
                              om = 2pinu = c,k!right)$$

                              (We must choose $cos kx$ in order that $I$ vanishes at antenna's ends ($x=l$). The choice $cosom t$ for time dependence is arbitrary, only amounting to fix the wave's phase at $t=0$.)



                              We have in general
                              $$I = -n,s,e,v$$
                              ($v$ average electrons speed in point $x$ at time $t$). If we assume a collective average motion of electrons, described by a displacement $D(x,t)$, we'll write
                              $$v = PD Dt.$$
                              Then
                              $$PD Dt = -I over n,s,e$$
                              immediately integrable to
                              $$D = -I_0 over n,s,e,om,cos kx,sinom t.$$
                              So the maximum displacement occurs at antenna centre ($x=0$) and is
                              $$|D_0| = I_0 over n,s,e,om =
                              qy101.2-12m = qy1.2pm.$$




                              When a physicist encounters such n unbelievable result he has two moral duties:



                              • to check his reasoning and calculations as accurately as he can

                              • to find an alternative way to reach, at least grossly, the same
                                result.

                              You have only my word on the first point - about the second here's
                              my proposal.



                              We have a current of $qy2A$ peak at $qy100MHz$ on our antenna.
                              So it alternates 200 million times a second and in 1/(200 millionth)
                              of a second it transfers a charge of 2/(200 million) = $qy10^-8C$
                              from - say - left side to right side of the antenna (actually less,
                              since current is not constant at its peak value, but too bad - it
                              means that we are overextimating the transferred charge).



                              This charge amounts to a number of electrons:
                              $$10^-8 over 101.6-19 = 10 610.$$



                              If there is one free electron per Cu atom, the interested volume will be $10 610$ times the volume occupied by an atom. How can we
                              estimate such volume?



                              I know by heart some data:



                              • Cu molar mass (atomic weight): about $qy60g/mol$

                              • Avogadro's constant: $qy10 623mol^-1.$

                              These give me the mass of one Cu atom:
                              $$qy60g/mol over qy10 623mol^-1 = qy10^-22g.$$
                              Now using



                              • Cu density: about $qy9g/cm^3$

                              I find the volume occupied by one atom:



                              $$qy10^-22g over qy9g/cm^3 = qy10^-23cm^3 =
                              qy10^-29m^3.$$



                              Now the total volume of copper interested by charge displacement is
                              $$10 610 times qy10^-29m^3 = qy10 6-19m^3.$$
                              I had already computed (and re-checked) the cross section:
                              $$qy10 2-7m^2$$
                              and the above volume corresponds to a displacement
                              $$qy10 6-19m^3 over qy10 2-7m^2 = qy10 3-12m$$




                              Conclusion. You may change the initial data as you like. The result is so small that you will never be able to turn it into a significant one. This solves our doubt: there are so many electrons in the antenna that in order to produce an important charge imbalance (and a relevant radiation power) only a very very small fraction of them are to be moved.



                              A final comment. I spent a not negligible part of my time in writing the above as I found it a very useful lesson - an impressive example of a general truth. You can't understand physics, also in its seemingly intuitive aspects, without grounding your reasoning on a sound quantitative basis. Physics without numbers is just chatter.






                              share|cite|improve this answer














                              $letd=delta letlam=lambda letom=omega lets=sigma
                              letOm=Omega defqy#1#2#1,mathrm#2 defRrR_mathrm r
                              defhalf1 over 2 def10#1#2#1cdot10^#2
                              defPD#1#2partial#1 over partial#2$

                              I want to add another answer rather than editing the former, since what
                              follows is strictly connected to @The_Sympathizer's answer. On the
                              other hand a comment is too much limited in size for my reasoning.



                              Let me first correct a minor point. The_Sympathizer writes




                              To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that
                              is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and
                              sound.




                              In fact the shortest resonant length is $lam/2$ ($lam/4$ for the
                              "virtual" one). The same holds for organ pipes and other wind
                              instruments too).



                              But my central argument is the following. The_Sympathizer writes




                              you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the
                              frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one
                              half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other
                              half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave
                              cycle.




                              This is true but raises a doubt. How can such imbalance arise if not
                              with electrons migrating from one side ot the antenna to the opposite?
                              Strange as it may appear, the only way to solve the issue is in
                              examining some numbers.



                              Let's begin by choosing a reasonable size for the antenna and its
                              power. There is a considerable range of possible values, from high
                              frequency low power amateur transmitters to low frequency extra-high
                              power broadcasters. I'll take values rather near the former limit, but any reader will be able to change numbers and follow how that
                              modifies my conclusions - if it does. Then




                              • $nu = qy100MHz quad lam = qy 3 m$ (frequency, wavelength)


                              • $l = lam/4 = qy0.75m$ (1/2 antenna length)


                              • $d = qy1cm = qy0.01m$ (diameter of antenna conductor)


                              • $I_0 = qy 2 A$ (peak antenna current).

                              Given radiation resistance $Rr = qy73Om$ radiated power is
                              $half,Rr,I_0^2 = qy146W$.



                              We'll also need the effective conductor cross section, taking into
                              account skin effect. From
                              https://chemandy.com/calculators/skin-effect-calculator.htm
                              we get



                              • skin effect depth $d = qy6.5mu m$

                              and cross section is $s = pi dd = qy102.0-7m^2$.



                              Another datum we need is electron number density $n$ (number of free
                              electrons per unit volume). It the antenna is made of copper, assuming
                              one free electron per atom, from known density of copper and its
                              atomic mass we have




                              • $n = qy108.528m^-3 $ (electron number density).


                              We're now ready to begin reasoning. In our antenna a standing wave is present, of wavelength $lam$ and frequency $nu$. All interesting quantities must have an expression consistent with the standing wave and relevant boundary conditions. For instance the current will be
                              $$I(x,t) = I_0 cos kx ,cos om t qquad
                              left(!k = 2pi over lam,quad
                              om = 2pinu = c,k!right)$$

                              (We must choose $cos kx$ in order that $I$ vanishes at antenna's ends ($x=l$). The choice $cosom t$ for time dependence is arbitrary, only amounting to fix the wave's phase at $t=0$.)



                              We have in general
                              $$I = -n,s,e,v$$
                              ($v$ average electrons speed in point $x$ at time $t$). If we assume a collective average motion of electrons, described by a displacement $D(x,t)$, we'll write
                              $$v = PD Dt.$$
                              Then
                              $$PD Dt = -I over n,s,e$$
                              immediately integrable to
                              $$D = -I_0 over n,s,e,om,cos kx,sinom t.$$
                              So the maximum displacement occurs at antenna centre ($x=0$) and is
                              $$|D_0| = I_0 over n,s,e,om =
                              qy101.2-12m = qy1.2pm.$$




                              When a physicist encounters such n unbelievable result he has two moral duties:



                              • to check his reasoning and calculations as accurately as he can

                              • to find an alternative way to reach, at least grossly, the same
                                result.

                              You have only my word on the first point - about the second here's
                              my proposal.



                              We have a current of $qy2A$ peak at $qy100MHz$ on our antenna.
                              So it alternates 200 million times a second and in 1/(200 millionth)
                              of a second it transfers a charge of 2/(200 million) = $qy10^-8C$
                              from - say - left side to right side of the antenna (actually less,
                              since current is not constant at its peak value, but too bad - it
                              means that we are overextimating the transferred charge).



                              This charge amounts to a number of electrons:
                              $$10^-8 over 101.6-19 = 10 610.$$



                              If there is one free electron per Cu atom, the interested volume will be $10 610$ times the volume occupied by an atom. How can we
                              estimate such volume?



                              I know by heart some data:



                              • Cu molar mass (atomic weight): about $qy60g/mol$

                              • Avogadro's constant: $qy10 623mol^-1.$

                              These give me the mass of one Cu atom:
                              $$qy60g/mol over qy10 623mol^-1 = qy10^-22g.$$
                              Now using



                              • Cu density: about $qy9g/cm^3$

                              I find the volume occupied by one atom:



                              $$qy10^-22g over qy9g/cm^3 = qy10^-23cm^3 =
                              qy10^-29m^3.$$



                              Now the total volume of copper interested by charge displacement is
                              $$10 610 times qy10^-29m^3 = qy10 6-19m^3.$$
                              I had already computed (and re-checked) the cross section:
                              $$qy10 2-7m^2$$
                              and the above volume corresponds to a displacement
                              $$qy10 6-19m^3 over qy10 2-7m^2 = qy10 3-12m$$




                              Conclusion. You may change the initial data as you like. The result is so small that you will never be able to turn it into a significant one. This solves our doubt: there are so many electrons in the antenna that in order to produce an important charge imbalance (and a relevant radiation power) only a very very small fraction of them are to be moved.



                              A final comment. I spent a not negligible part of my time in writing the above as I found it a very useful lesson - an impressive example of a general truth. You can't understand physics, also in its seemingly intuitive aspects, without grounding your reasoning on a sound quantitative basis. Physics without numbers is just chatter.







                              share|cite|improve this answer














                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer








                              edited Dec 31 '18 at 9:29

























                              answered Dec 24 '18 at 16:12









                              Elio Fabri

                              2,3451112




                              2,3451112





















                                  0














                                  An antenna basically works by generating an alternating electromagnetic field, which then per Maxwell's equations will propagate spatially like a wave. It in turn does this by having passed through itself an extremely high frequency, modulated alternating current (radio frequency alternating current or RF AC), just like the AC power that comes out of the mains and that runs your house, but with more signal complexity (the modulation to carry the message).



                                  Thus it is basically just a circuit element, i.e. a conductor, but with a catch. In a normal circuit, with low- to no-frequency changes in the currents/voltages, and which is of a suitably small size, one is in a regime in which the behavior of circuits can be analyzed in terms of what are known as Kirchhoff's laws and the lumped element model. In layman's terms, this means "circuit diagrams and component rules" like $V = IR$ for resistors, $C = fracQV$ for capacitors, and so forth with one component on the diagram for each real component on the circuit. And the reason this can be done is that in such circuits a couple of facts about the electromagnetic situations in them hold to at least an approximate degree of truth: the fields in most components are localized to within them, and that the charge distributions across the circuit are effectively uniform.



                                  But an antenna, in fact, is in a way a circuit which is expressly designed to violate these assumptions. It is a conductor operated at a high enough frequency and which is large enough that the rules are violated dramatically and thus its analysis requires considerably more sophistication to do in a quantitative, mathematical manner and thus to design such antennas with attention to making them possess efficiency of operation and quality and fidelity of generated signal, is also a fraught matter requiring level-99 Electrical Engineering (EE) skills.



                                  In particular, when you have alternating currents in a circuit, what you in a sense "really" have going through the circuit is electromagnetic waves. In a way, a circuit is kind of like a "fiber optic cable for RF waves", almost. These waves are what carry the energy through the circuit and moreover this is for exactly the same reason that when you flip your light switch the light turns on effectively "instantly" despite that the electrons in a circuit move only with much lower speed, almost a crawl (at least from a classical naive point of view - actually according to QM they do indeed move pretty quick in most metallic conductors, about 1000 km/s [to the extent that speeds can be assigned a well-defined value thanks to quantum fuzziness] so enough to reach your house light in a microsec essentially literally, but still the speed the energy reaches your light is higher than even this as I believe at least can be measured with more sophisticated experiments).



                                  When you flip the switch, a sharp electromagnetic wave front is created, behind which is the energy that you associate with "electric [mains] power", and as it passes them, at nearly the speed of light, the electrons are set in motion. Unlike what one may be thinking, electrons don't actually need to reach the bulb from elsewhere for it to have power, only the wave does.



                                  And when there's such a wave in a conductor, specifically Kirchhoff's junction rule is violated - meaning that there are, for a time, net accumulations of charge at some points along it, or places where the sum of currents going in does not equal the sum of currents going out, leading to unbalanced charges. This is because (at least from classical EM, my QED ain't good enough to give a really detailed quantum account) as the wave passes the electrons are not all moving uniformly but rather some bunch together more tightly at areas of stronger field gradient (higher wave slope, like at the middles between the peaks and troughs) than at areas of weaker gradient (lower wave slope, like at the peaks and troughs themselves). (This is also analogous, by the way, to how that gravitational forces cause stretching/squeezing when you have a gradient as in tidal forces or the passing of a gravitational wave past a point, though with the caveat that gravitational waves are tensor waves, not vector waves, so they affect things somewhat differently in terms of details.)



                                  And the simplest, ideal antenna is then one which is exactly one half or one wavelength of such a wave, long. As when you do that, you get an electromagnetic wave - what is really the radio wave you want to transmit, confined in a bottle like light in a fiber optic cable - across the whole length that is alternating and moreover forms a standing-wave pattern because with this length of antenna, the far end and near end can both serve as nodes (the electromagnetic wave - not electrons as in another answer that was posted here - effectively shoots through and then "bounces back" against the antenna's end and thus establishes the SW pattern similar to a sound wave of the right frequency in a hollow tube like those used on a pipe organ to produce the notes, which actually can thus be thought of as a sort of analogue model for the electromagnetic situation). With that standing wave, due to the variable compression and rarefaction of electrons within the metallic conductor, you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave cycle. This means that what you have is then an alternating dipole and thus more specifically an alternating dipole moment from the antenna, and according to Maxwell's equations an alternating dipole moment releases electromagnetic radiation. Alternatively, from a more conceptual or fundamentally theoretical point of view, you can say that a distant observer holding a charge will feel from the field of this alternating dipole in hir test charge an alternation in likewise manner. Which, effectively, is what the opposite of a transmitter - a receiver - does. And that means that information - the message being transmitted by the transmitter - is going from one point to another in space. And when that happens, since the speed of propagation of information is limited thanks to relativistic constraint (Lorentzian geometry of spacetime), then there must be something traversing the void between hir and the tower at that limited speed and thus that means in this situation radiation is present (and moreover, a though experiment of this type is an easy way to determine if in a given problem that radiation will be present or not. For example, a perfectly symmetric charged cylinder rotating around its axis - feel no change in EM field -> no information -> no radiation present. Charged cylinder tumbling end over end -> if you're a distance from the "ends" you feel it tugging periodically -> information is moving -> radiation is present.).



                                  To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and sound. And it turns out thanks to a mathematical property of the laws of electromagnetism we can do that in two ways: one is "real", to make a real antenna really one full wavelength long, and the other is "virtual", to make a half-antenna a half wavelength and to use the reflection of the waves from the ground to form a sort of "image" (this is first introduced in an EM course as the "method of image charges" for static charges and is the same basic principle) of the antenna that acts like the opposite, negatively-charged part. Antennae of other lengths will still have varying charge distributions through them, but won't be as efficient as it's off-resonance and so the amplitude of the wave in the antenna doesn't get as high and thus neither does the amplitude of what is sent out.



                                  And to get the final answer, the wavelength of an electromagnetic wave is related to its frequency by



                                  $$lambda = fraccf$$



                                  and of course, $c approx 300 000 mathrmkm/s$, which can be written perhaps more usefully as $300 mathrmm cdot MHz$. Thus a 1 MHz broadcast frequency requires a full-wave resonant antenna 300 m long, or a half-wave mirror antenna 150 m long. You can see that would make for quite a tower and indeed "quite a tower" is exactly what we have in real life!






                                  share|cite|improve this answer



























                                    0














                                    An antenna basically works by generating an alternating electromagnetic field, which then per Maxwell's equations will propagate spatially like a wave. It in turn does this by having passed through itself an extremely high frequency, modulated alternating current (radio frequency alternating current or RF AC), just like the AC power that comes out of the mains and that runs your house, but with more signal complexity (the modulation to carry the message).



                                    Thus it is basically just a circuit element, i.e. a conductor, but with a catch. In a normal circuit, with low- to no-frequency changes in the currents/voltages, and which is of a suitably small size, one is in a regime in which the behavior of circuits can be analyzed in terms of what are known as Kirchhoff's laws and the lumped element model. In layman's terms, this means "circuit diagrams and component rules" like $V = IR$ for resistors, $C = fracQV$ for capacitors, and so forth with one component on the diagram for each real component on the circuit. And the reason this can be done is that in such circuits a couple of facts about the electromagnetic situations in them hold to at least an approximate degree of truth: the fields in most components are localized to within them, and that the charge distributions across the circuit are effectively uniform.



                                    But an antenna, in fact, is in a way a circuit which is expressly designed to violate these assumptions. It is a conductor operated at a high enough frequency and which is large enough that the rules are violated dramatically and thus its analysis requires considerably more sophistication to do in a quantitative, mathematical manner and thus to design such antennas with attention to making them possess efficiency of operation and quality and fidelity of generated signal, is also a fraught matter requiring level-99 Electrical Engineering (EE) skills.



                                    In particular, when you have alternating currents in a circuit, what you in a sense "really" have going through the circuit is electromagnetic waves. In a way, a circuit is kind of like a "fiber optic cable for RF waves", almost. These waves are what carry the energy through the circuit and moreover this is for exactly the same reason that when you flip your light switch the light turns on effectively "instantly" despite that the electrons in a circuit move only with much lower speed, almost a crawl (at least from a classical naive point of view - actually according to QM they do indeed move pretty quick in most metallic conductors, about 1000 km/s [to the extent that speeds can be assigned a well-defined value thanks to quantum fuzziness] so enough to reach your house light in a microsec essentially literally, but still the speed the energy reaches your light is higher than even this as I believe at least can be measured with more sophisticated experiments).



                                    When you flip the switch, a sharp electromagnetic wave front is created, behind which is the energy that you associate with "electric [mains] power", and as it passes them, at nearly the speed of light, the electrons are set in motion. Unlike what one may be thinking, electrons don't actually need to reach the bulb from elsewhere for it to have power, only the wave does.



                                    And when there's such a wave in a conductor, specifically Kirchhoff's junction rule is violated - meaning that there are, for a time, net accumulations of charge at some points along it, or places where the sum of currents going in does not equal the sum of currents going out, leading to unbalanced charges. This is because (at least from classical EM, my QED ain't good enough to give a really detailed quantum account) as the wave passes the electrons are not all moving uniformly but rather some bunch together more tightly at areas of stronger field gradient (higher wave slope, like at the middles between the peaks and troughs) than at areas of weaker gradient (lower wave slope, like at the peaks and troughs themselves). (This is also analogous, by the way, to how that gravitational forces cause stretching/squeezing when you have a gradient as in tidal forces or the passing of a gravitational wave past a point, though with the caveat that gravitational waves are tensor waves, not vector waves, so they affect things somewhat differently in terms of details.)



                                    And the simplest, ideal antenna is then one which is exactly one half or one wavelength of such a wave, long. As when you do that, you get an electromagnetic wave - what is really the radio wave you want to transmit, confined in a bottle like light in a fiber optic cable - across the whole length that is alternating and moreover forms a standing-wave pattern because with this length of antenna, the far end and near end can both serve as nodes (the electromagnetic wave - not electrons as in another answer that was posted here - effectively shoots through and then "bounces back" against the antenna's end and thus establishes the SW pattern similar to a sound wave of the right frequency in a hollow tube like those used on a pipe organ to produce the notes, which actually can thus be thought of as a sort of analogue model for the electromagnetic situation). With that standing wave, due to the variable compression and rarefaction of electrons within the metallic conductor, you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave cycle. This means that what you have is then an alternating dipole and thus more specifically an alternating dipole moment from the antenna, and according to Maxwell's equations an alternating dipole moment releases electromagnetic radiation. Alternatively, from a more conceptual or fundamentally theoretical point of view, you can say that a distant observer holding a charge will feel from the field of this alternating dipole in hir test charge an alternation in likewise manner. Which, effectively, is what the opposite of a transmitter - a receiver - does. And that means that information - the message being transmitted by the transmitter - is going from one point to another in space. And when that happens, since the speed of propagation of information is limited thanks to relativistic constraint (Lorentzian geometry of spacetime), then there must be something traversing the void between hir and the tower at that limited speed and thus that means in this situation radiation is present (and moreover, a though experiment of this type is an easy way to determine if in a given problem that radiation will be present or not. For example, a perfectly symmetric charged cylinder rotating around its axis - feel no change in EM field -> no information -> no radiation present. Charged cylinder tumbling end over end -> if you're a distance from the "ends" you feel it tugging periodically -> information is moving -> radiation is present.).



                                    To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and sound. And it turns out thanks to a mathematical property of the laws of electromagnetism we can do that in two ways: one is "real", to make a real antenna really one full wavelength long, and the other is "virtual", to make a half-antenna a half wavelength and to use the reflection of the waves from the ground to form a sort of "image" (this is first introduced in an EM course as the "method of image charges" for static charges and is the same basic principle) of the antenna that acts like the opposite, negatively-charged part. Antennae of other lengths will still have varying charge distributions through them, but won't be as efficient as it's off-resonance and so the amplitude of the wave in the antenna doesn't get as high and thus neither does the amplitude of what is sent out.



                                    And to get the final answer, the wavelength of an electromagnetic wave is related to its frequency by



                                    $$lambda = fraccf$$



                                    and of course, $c approx 300 000 mathrmkm/s$, which can be written perhaps more usefully as $300 mathrmm cdot MHz$. Thus a 1 MHz broadcast frequency requires a full-wave resonant antenna 300 m long, or a half-wave mirror antenna 150 m long. You can see that would make for quite a tower and indeed "quite a tower" is exactly what we have in real life!






                                    share|cite|improve this answer

























                                      0












                                      0








                                      0






                                      An antenna basically works by generating an alternating electromagnetic field, which then per Maxwell's equations will propagate spatially like a wave. It in turn does this by having passed through itself an extremely high frequency, modulated alternating current (radio frequency alternating current or RF AC), just like the AC power that comes out of the mains and that runs your house, but with more signal complexity (the modulation to carry the message).



                                      Thus it is basically just a circuit element, i.e. a conductor, but with a catch. In a normal circuit, with low- to no-frequency changes in the currents/voltages, and which is of a suitably small size, one is in a regime in which the behavior of circuits can be analyzed in terms of what are known as Kirchhoff's laws and the lumped element model. In layman's terms, this means "circuit diagrams and component rules" like $V = IR$ for resistors, $C = fracQV$ for capacitors, and so forth with one component on the diagram for each real component on the circuit. And the reason this can be done is that in such circuits a couple of facts about the electromagnetic situations in them hold to at least an approximate degree of truth: the fields in most components are localized to within them, and that the charge distributions across the circuit are effectively uniform.



                                      But an antenna, in fact, is in a way a circuit which is expressly designed to violate these assumptions. It is a conductor operated at a high enough frequency and which is large enough that the rules are violated dramatically and thus its analysis requires considerably more sophistication to do in a quantitative, mathematical manner and thus to design such antennas with attention to making them possess efficiency of operation and quality and fidelity of generated signal, is also a fraught matter requiring level-99 Electrical Engineering (EE) skills.



                                      In particular, when you have alternating currents in a circuit, what you in a sense "really" have going through the circuit is electromagnetic waves. In a way, a circuit is kind of like a "fiber optic cable for RF waves", almost. These waves are what carry the energy through the circuit and moreover this is for exactly the same reason that when you flip your light switch the light turns on effectively "instantly" despite that the electrons in a circuit move only with much lower speed, almost a crawl (at least from a classical naive point of view - actually according to QM they do indeed move pretty quick in most metallic conductors, about 1000 km/s [to the extent that speeds can be assigned a well-defined value thanks to quantum fuzziness] so enough to reach your house light in a microsec essentially literally, but still the speed the energy reaches your light is higher than even this as I believe at least can be measured with more sophisticated experiments).



                                      When you flip the switch, a sharp electromagnetic wave front is created, behind which is the energy that you associate with "electric [mains] power", and as it passes them, at nearly the speed of light, the electrons are set in motion. Unlike what one may be thinking, electrons don't actually need to reach the bulb from elsewhere for it to have power, only the wave does.



                                      And when there's such a wave in a conductor, specifically Kirchhoff's junction rule is violated - meaning that there are, for a time, net accumulations of charge at some points along it, or places where the sum of currents going in does not equal the sum of currents going out, leading to unbalanced charges. This is because (at least from classical EM, my QED ain't good enough to give a really detailed quantum account) as the wave passes the electrons are not all moving uniformly but rather some bunch together more tightly at areas of stronger field gradient (higher wave slope, like at the middles between the peaks and troughs) than at areas of weaker gradient (lower wave slope, like at the peaks and troughs themselves). (This is also analogous, by the way, to how that gravitational forces cause stretching/squeezing when you have a gradient as in tidal forces or the passing of a gravitational wave past a point, though with the caveat that gravitational waves are tensor waves, not vector waves, so they affect things somewhat differently in terms of details.)



                                      And the simplest, ideal antenna is then one which is exactly one half or one wavelength of such a wave, long. As when you do that, you get an electromagnetic wave - what is really the radio wave you want to transmit, confined in a bottle like light in a fiber optic cable - across the whole length that is alternating and moreover forms a standing-wave pattern because with this length of antenna, the far end and near end can both serve as nodes (the electromagnetic wave - not electrons as in another answer that was posted here - effectively shoots through and then "bounces back" against the antenna's end and thus establishes the SW pattern similar to a sound wave of the right frequency in a hollow tube like those used on a pipe organ to produce the notes, which actually can thus be thought of as a sort of analogue model for the electromagnetic situation). With that standing wave, due to the variable compression and rarefaction of electrons within the metallic conductor, you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave cycle. This means that what you have is then an alternating dipole and thus more specifically an alternating dipole moment from the antenna, and according to Maxwell's equations an alternating dipole moment releases electromagnetic radiation. Alternatively, from a more conceptual or fundamentally theoretical point of view, you can say that a distant observer holding a charge will feel from the field of this alternating dipole in hir test charge an alternation in likewise manner. Which, effectively, is what the opposite of a transmitter - a receiver - does. And that means that information - the message being transmitted by the transmitter - is going from one point to another in space. And when that happens, since the speed of propagation of information is limited thanks to relativistic constraint (Lorentzian geometry of spacetime), then there must be something traversing the void between hir and the tower at that limited speed and thus that means in this situation radiation is present (and moreover, a though experiment of this type is an easy way to determine if in a given problem that radiation will be present or not. For example, a perfectly symmetric charged cylinder rotating around its axis - feel no change in EM field -> no information -> no radiation present. Charged cylinder tumbling end over end -> if you're a distance from the "ends" you feel it tugging periodically -> information is moving -> radiation is present.).



                                      To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and sound. And it turns out thanks to a mathematical property of the laws of electromagnetism we can do that in two ways: one is "real", to make a real antenna really one full wavelength long, and the other is "virtual", to make a half-antenna a half wavelength and to use the reflection of the waves from the ground to form a sort of "image" (this is first introduced in an EM course as the "method of image charges" for static charges and is the same basic principle) of the antenna that acts like the opposite, negatively-charged part. Antennae of other lengths will still have varying charge distributions through them, but won't be as efficient as it's off-resonance and so the amplitude of the wave in the antenna doesn't get as high and thus neither does the amplitude of what is sent out.



                                      And to get the final answer, the wavelength of an electromagnetic wave is related to its frequency by



                                      $$lambda = fraccf$$



                                      and of course, $c approx 300 000 mathrmkm/s$, which can be written perhaps more usefully as $300 mathrmm cdot MHz$. Thus a 1 MHz broadcast frequency requires a full-wave resonant antenna 300 m long, or a half-wave mirror antenna 150 m long. You can see that would make for quite a tower and indeed "quite a tower" is exactly what we have in real life!






                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      An antenna basically works by generating an alternating electromagnetic field, which then per Maxwell's equations will propagate spatially like a wave. It in turn does this by having passed through itself an extremely high frequency, modulated alternating current (radio frequency alternating current or RF AC), just like the AC power that comes out of the mains and that runs your house, but with more signal complexity (the modulation to carry the message).



                                      Thus it is basically just a circuit element, i.e. a conductor, but with a catch. In a normal circuit, with low- to no-frequency changes in the currents/voltages, and which is of a suitably small size, one is in a regime in which the behavior of circuits can be analyzed in terms of what are known as Kirchhoff's laws and the lumped element model. In layman's terms, this means "circuit diagrams and component rules" like $V = IR$ for resistors, $C = fracQV$ for capacitors, and so forth with one component on the diagram for each real component on the circuit. And the reason this can be done is that in such circuits a couple of facts about the electromagnetic situations in them hold to at least an approximate degree of truth: the fields in most components are localized to within them, and that the charge distributions across the circuit are effectively uniform.



                                      But an antenna, in fact, is in a way a circuit which is expressly designed to violate these assumptions. It is a conductor operated at a high enough frequency and which is large enough that the rules are violated dramatically and thus its analysis requires considerably more sophistication to do in a quantitative, mathematical manner and thus to design such antennas with attention to making them possess efficiency of operation and quality and fidelity of generated signal, is also a fraught matter requiring level-99 Electrical Engineering (EE) skills.



                                      In particular, when you have alternating currents in a circuit, what you in a sense "really" have going through the circuit is electromagnetic waves. In a way, a circuit is kind of like a "fiber optic cable for RF waves", almost. These waves are what carry the energy through the circuit and moreover this is for exactly the same reason that when you flip your light switch the light turns on effectively "instantly" despite that the electrons in a circuit move only with much lower speed, almost a crawl (at least from a classical naive point of view - actually according to QM they do indeed move pretty quick in most metallic conductors, about 1000 km/s [to the extent that speeds can be assigned a well-defined value thanks to quantum fuzziness] so enough to reach your house light in a microsec essentially literally, but still the speed the energy reaches your light is higher than even this as I believe at least can be measured with more sophisticated experiments).



                                      When you flip the switch, a sharp electromagnetic wave front is created, behind which is the energy that you associate with "electric [mains] power", and as it passes them, at nearly the speed of light, the electrons are set in motion. Unlike what one may be thinking, electrons don't actually need to reach the bulb from elsewhere for it to have power, only the wave does.



                                      And when there's such a wave in a conductor, specifically Kirchhoff's junction rule is violated - meaning that there are, for a time, net accumulations of charge at some points along it, or places where the sum of currents going in does not equal the sum of currents going out, leading to unbalanced charges. This is because (at least from classical EM, my QED ain't good enough to give a really detailed quantum account) as the wave passes the electrons are not all moving uniformly but rather some bunch together more tightly at areas of stronger field gradient (higher wave slope, like at the middles between the peaks and troughs) than at areas of weaker gradient (lower wave slope, like at the peaks and troughs themselves). (This is also analogous, by the way, to how that gravitational forces cause stretching/squeezing when you have a gradient as in tidal forces or the passing of a gravitational wave past a point, though with the caveat that gravitational waves are tensor waves, not vector waves, so they affect things somewhat differently in terms of details.)



                                      And the simplest, ideal antenna is then one which is exactly one half or one wavelength of such a wave, long. As when you do that, you get an electromagnetic wave - what is really the radio wave you want to transmit, confined in a bottle like light in a fiber optic cable - across the whole length that is alternating and moreover forms a standing-wave pattern because with this length of antenna, the far end and near end can both serve as nodes (the electromagnetic wave - not electrons as in another answer that was posted here - effectively shoots through and then "bounces back" against the antenna's end and thus establishes the SW pattern similar to a sound wave of the right frequency in a hollow tube like those used on a pipe organ to produce the notes, which actually can thus be thought of as a sort of analogue model for the electromagnetic situation). With that standing wave, due to the variable compression and rarefaction of electrons within the metallic conductor, you get a transient, extremely rapidly alternating (with the frequency of the radio transmission) charge imbalance where that one half of the antenna is developing a net positive charge and the other half developing a net negative charge, and that reverses once per wave cycle. This means that what you have is then an alternating dipole and thus more specifically an alternating dipole moment from the antenna, and according to Maxwell's equations an alternating dipole moment releases electromagnetic radiation. Alternatively, from a more conceptual or fundamentally theoretical point of view, you can say that a distant observer holding a charge will feel from the field of this alternating dipole in hir test charge an alternation in likewise manner. Which, effectively, is what the opposite of a transmitter - a receiver - does. And that means that information - the message being transmitted by the transmitter - is going from one point to another in space. And when that happens, since the speed of propagation of information is limited thanks to relativistic constraint (Lorentzian geometry of spacetime), then there must be something traversing the void between hir and the tower at that limited speed and thus that means in this situation radiation is present (and moreover, a though experiment of this type is an easy way to determine if in a given problem that radiation will be present or not. For example, a perfectly symmetric charged cylinder rotating around its axis - feel no change in EM field -> no information -> no radiation present. Charged cylinder tumbling end over end -> if you're a distance from the "ends" you feel it tugging periodically -> information is moving -> radiation is present.).



                                      To have such a resonant pattern, of course, we need an antenna that is a full wavelength long, just as the case for the organ tubes and sound. And it turns out thanks to a mathematical property of the laws of electromagnetism we can do that in two ways: one is "real", to make a real antenna really one full wavelength long, and the other is "virtual", to make a half-antenna a half wavelength and to use the reflection of the waves from the ground to form a sort of "image" (this is first introduced in an EM course as the "method of image charges" for static charges and is the same basic principle) of the antenna that acts like the opposite, negatively-charged part. Antennae of other lengths will still have varying charge distributions through them, but won't be as efficient as it's off-resonance and so the amplitude of the wave in the antenna doesn't get as high and thus neither does the amplitude of what is sent out.



                                      And to get the final answer, the wavelength of an electromagnetic wave is related to its frequency by



                                      $$lambda = fraccf$$



                                      and of course, $c approx 300 000 mathrmkm/s$, which can be written perhaps more usefully as $300 mathrmm cdot MHz$. Thus a 1 MHz broadcast frequency requires a full-wave resonant antenna 300 m long, or a half-wave mirror antenna 150 m long. You can see that would make for quite a tower and indeed "quite a tower" is exactly what we have in real life!







                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      share|cite|improve this answer



                                      share|cite|improve this answer








                                      edited Dec 24 '18 at 7:56

























                                      answered Dec 24 '18 at 7:04









                                      The_Sympathizer

                                      3,754923




                                      3,754923



























                                          draft saved

                                          draft discarded
















































                                          Thanks for contributing an answer to Physics Stack Exchange!


                                          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                          But avoid


                                          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                                          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                                          Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                                          Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                                          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                                          But avoid


                                          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                                          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

                                          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded














                                          StackExchange.ready(
                                          function ()
                                          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f449947%2fwhy-are-longwave-radio-towers-so-tall%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                          );

                                          Post as a guest















                                          Required, but never shown





















































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown

































                                          Required, but never shown














                                          Required, but never shown












                                          Required, but never shown







                                          Required, but never shown






                                          Popular posts from this blog

                                          How to check contact read email or not when send email to Individual?

                                          Bahrain

                                          Postfix configuration issue with fips on centos 7; mailgun relay