Can a sinner preach to other people to stop sinning?

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Can somebody who has committed a particular sin nonetheless rebuke other people for doing it? Or does he have to first stop doing the sin himself?










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    This is very similar to this question on another site.
    – Monica Cellio
    Dec 10 at 4:29










  • Similar judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:23














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Can somebody who has committed a particular sin nonetheless rebuke other people for doing it? Or does he have to first stop doing the sin himself?










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    This is very similar to this question on another site.
    – Monica Cellio
    Dec 10 at 4:29










  • Similar judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:23












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Can somebody who has committed a particular sin nonetheless rebuke other people for doing it? Or does he have to first stop doing the sin himself?










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Can somebody who has committed a particular sin nonetheless rebuke other people for doing it? Or does he have to first stop doing the sin himself?







halacha sin rebuke-tochacha






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edited Dec 11 at 16:11









Monica Cellio

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asked Dec 9 at 8:01









Ramban

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1







  • 1




    This is very similar to this question on another site.
    – Monica Cellio
    Dec 10 at 4:29










  • Similar judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:23












  • 1




    This is very similar to this question on another site.
    – Monica Cellio
    Dec 10 at 4:29










  • Similar judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:23







1




1




This is very similar to this question on another site.
– Monica Cellio
Dec 10 at 4:29




This is very similar to this question on another site.
– Monica Cellio
Dec 10 at 4:29












Similar judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
– TrustMeI'mARabbi
Dec 11 at 0:23




Similar judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
– TrustMeI'mARabbi
Dec 11 at 0:23










2 Answers
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Bava Batra 60:




ר' ינאי הוה ליה אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים הוה ההוא גברא דהוה ליה נמי אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים אתו בני רשות הרבים הוו קא מעכבי עילויה אתא לקמיה דר' ינאי א"ל זיל האידנא ותא למחר בליליא שדר קצייה לההוא דידיה למחר אתא לקמיה א"ל זיל קוץ א"ל הא מר נמי אית ליה א"ל זיל חזי אי קוץ דידי קוץ דידך אי לא קוץ דידי לא תקוץ את מעיקרא מאי סבר ולבסוף מאי סבר מעיקרא סבר ניחא להו לבני רה"ר דיתבי בטוליה כיון דחזא דקא מעכבי שדר קצייה ולימא ליה זיל קוץ דידך והדר אקוץ דידי משום דריש לקיש דאמר (צפניה ב, א) התקוששו וקושו קשוט עצמך ואח"כ קשוט אחרים:



R. Jannai had a tree which overhung the public way, and another man also had a tree overhanging the street. Some passers-by objected and he was summoned before R. Jannai. He said to him: Go away now and come again tomorrow. During the night he sent and had his own tree cut down. On the next day the man came back and he told him to go and cut the tree down. He said: But you, Sir, also have one? He replied: Go and see. If mine is cut down, cut yours down, and if mine is not cut down you need not cut yours down. What was R. Jannai's idea at first [when he kept his tree] and afterwards [when he had it cut down]? — At first he thought that passers-by were glad of it because they could sit in its shade, but when he saw that they objected to it he had it cut down. Why did he not say to the man, Go and cut yours down and then I will cut down mine? — In conformity with the maxim of Resh Lakish, who said: [It is written], Hithkosheshu wakoshu trim yourselves and then trim others.



(Translation courtesy of the Soncino Talmud)







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  • 2




    This may easily be just to make sure that the man had no excuse. It also doesn't say that you can't - just you should solve yourself first. If you have no intention of doing so it may be well b you should still tell off
    – Orangesandlemons
    Dec 9 at 9:44











  • @Orangesandlemons As far as your first question goes, I don’t see that it makes a difference. Reish Lakish is saying (for whatever reason) to fix up your own act first and then to rebuke others.
    – Joel K
    Dec 9 at 15:48

















up vote
0
down vote













According to Rambam's rulings on Teshuva, it is a Mitzvah to publicize one's misdeeds to prevent others from sinning as a part of personal repent. This also ensures that he will not do it again, as required for a proper Teshuvah.



Exact quote needed.






share|improve this answer




















  • I think you would need a quote for this before saying such. But anyhow, check out my answer for this question here for insight: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:25


















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
6
down vote













Bava Batra 60:




ר' ינאי הוה ליה אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים הוה ההוא גברא דהוה ליה נמי אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים אתו בני רשות הרבים הוו קא מעכבי עילויה אתא לקמיה דר' ינאי א"ל זיל האידנא ותא למחר בליליא שדר קצייה לההוא דידיה למחר אתא לקמיה א"ל זיל קוץ א"ל הא מר נמי אית ליה א"ל זיל חזי אי קוץ דידי קוץ דידך אי לא קוץ דידי לא תקוץ את מעיקרא מאי סבר ולבסוף מאי סבר מעיקרא סבר ניחא להו לבני רה"ר דיתבי בטוליה כיון דחזא דקא מעכבי שדר קצייה ולימא ליה זיל קוץ דידך והדר אקוץ דידי משום דריש לקיש דאמר (צפניה ב, א) התקוששו וקושו קשוט עצמך ואח"כ קשוט אחרים:



R. Jannai had a tree which overhung the public way, and another man also had a tree overhanging the street. Some passers-by objected and he was summoned before R. Jannai. He said to him: Go away now and come again tomorrow. During the night he sent and had his own tree cut down. On the next day the man came back and he told him to go and cut the tree down. He said: But you, Sir, also have one? He replied: Go and see. If mine is cut down, cut yours down, and if mine is not cut down you need not cut yours down. What was R. Jannai's idea at first [when he kept his tree] and afterwards [when he had it cut down]? — At first he thought that passers-by were glad of it because they could sit in its shade, but when he saw that they objected to it he had it cut down. Why did he not say to the man, Go and cut yours down and then I will cut down mine? — In conformity with the maxim of Resh Lakish, who said: [It is written], Hithkosheshu wakoshu trim yourselves and then trim others.



(Translation courtesy of the Soncino Talmud)







share|improve this answer


















  • 2




    This may easily be just to make sure that the man had no excuse. It also doesn't say that you can't - just you should solve yourself first. If you have no intention of doing so it may be well b you should still tell off
    – Orangesandlemons
    Dec 9 at 9:44











  • @Orangesandlemons As far as your first question goes, I don’t see that it makes a difference. Reish Lakish is saying (for whatever reason) to fix up your own act first and then to rebuke others.
    – Joel K
    Dec 9 at 15:48














up vote
6
down vote













Bava Batra 60:




ר' ינאי הוה ליה אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים הוה ההוא גברא דהוה ליה נמי אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים אתו בני רשות הרבים הוו קא מעכבי עילויה אתא לקמיה דר' ינאי א"ל זיל האידנא ותא למחר בליליא שדר קצייה לההוא דידיה למחר אתא לקמיה א"ל זיל קוץ א"ל הא מר נמי אית ליה א"ל זיל חזי אי קוץ דידי קוץ דידך אי לא קוץ דידי לא תקוץ את מעיקרא מאי סבר ולבסוף מאי סבר מעיקרא סבר ניחא להו לבני רה"ר דיתבי בטוליה כיון דחזא דקא מעכבי שדר קצייה ולימא ליה זיל קוץ דידך והדר אקוץ דידי משום דריש לקיש דאמר (צפניה ב, א) התקוששו וקושו קשוט עצמך ואח"כ קשוט אחרים:



R. Jannai had a tree which overhung the public way, and another man also had a tree overhanging the street. Some passers-by objected and he was summoned before R. Jannai. He said to him: Go away now and come again tomorrow. During the night he sent and had his own tree cut down. On the next day the man came back and he told him to go and cut the tree down. He said: But you, Sir, also have one? He replied: Go and see. If mine is cut down, cut yours down, and if mine is not cut down you need not cut yours down. What was R. Jannai's idea at first [when he kept his tree] and afterwards [when he had it cut down]? — At first he thought that passers-by were glad of it because they could sit in its shade, but when he saw that they objected to it he had it cut down. Why did he not say to the man, Go and cut yours down and then I will cut down mine? — In conformity with the maxim of Resh Lakish, who said: [It is written], Hithkosheshu wakoshu trim yourselves and then trim others.



(Translation courtesy of the Soncino Talmud)







share|improve this answer


















  • 2




    This may easily be just to make sure that the man had no excuse. It also doesn't say that you can't - just you should solve yourself first. If you have no intention of doing so it may be well b you should still tell off
    – Orangesandlemons
    Dec 9 at 9:44











  • @Orangesandlemons As far as your first question goes, I don’t see that it makes a difference. Reish Lakish is saying (for whatever reason) to fix up your own act first and then to rebuke others.
    – Joel K
    Dec 9 at 15:48












up vote
6
down vote










up vote
6
down vote









Bava Batra 60:




ר' ינאי הוה ליה אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים הוה ההוא גברא דהוה ליה נמי אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים אתו בני רשות הרבים הוו קא מעכבי עילויה אתא לקמיה דר' ינאי א"ל זיל האידנא ותא למחר בליליא שדר קצייה לההוא דידיה למחר אתא לקמיה א"ל זיל קוץ א"ל הא מר נמי אית ליה א"ל זיל חזי אי קוץ דידי קוץ דידך אי לא קוץ דידי לא תקוץ את מעיקרא מאי סבר ולבסוף מאי סבר מעיקרא סבר ניחא להו לבני רה"ר דיתבי בטוליה כיון דחזא דקא מעכבי שדר קצייה ולימא ליה זיל קוץ דידך והדר אקוץ דידי משום דריש לקיש דאמר (צפניה ב, א) התקוששו וקושו קשוט עצמך ואח"כ קשוט אחרים:



R. Jannai had a tree which overhung the public way, and another man also had a tree overhanging the street. Some passers-by objected and he was summoned before R. Jannai. He said to him: Go away now and come again tomorrow. During the night he sent and had his own tree cut down. On the next day the man came back and he told him to go and cut the tree down. He said: But you, Sir, also have one? He replied: Go and see. If mine is cut down, cut yours down, and if mine is not cut down you need not cut yours down. What was R. Jannai's idea at first [when he kept his tree] and afterwards [when he had it cut down]? — At first he thought that passers-by were glad of it because they could sit in its shade, but when he saw that they objected to it he had it cut down. Why did he not say to the man, Go and cut yours down and then I will cut down mine? — In conformity with the maxim of Resh Lakish, who said: [It is written], Hithkosheshu wakoshu trim yourselves and then trim others.



(Translation courtesy of the Soncino Talmud)







share|improve this answer














Bava Batra 60:




ר' ינאי הוה ליה אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים הוה ההוא גברא דהוה ליה נמי אילן הנוטה לרשות הרבים אתו בני רשות הרבים הוו קא מעכבי עילויה אתא לקמיה דר' ינאי א"ל זיל האידנא ותא למחר בליליא שדר קצייה לההוא דידיה למחר אתא לקמיה א"ל זיל קוץ א"ל הא מר נמי אית ליה א"ל זיל חזי אי קוץ דידי קוץ דידך אי לא קוץ דידי לא תקוץ את מעיקרא מאי סבר ולבסוף מאי סבר מעיקרא סבר ניחא להו לבני רה"ר דיתבי בטוליה כיון דחזא דקא מעכבי שדר קצייה ולימא ליה זיל קוץ דידך והדר אקוץ דידי משום דריש לקיש דאמר (צפניה ב, א) התקוששו וקושו קשוט עצמך ואח"כ קשוט אחרים:



R. Jannai had a tree which overhung the public way, and another man also had a tree overhanging the street. Some passers-by objected and he was summoned before R. Jannai. He said to him: Go away now and come again tomorrow. During the night he sent and had his own tree cut down. On the next day the man came back and he told him to go and cut the tree down. He said: But you, Sir, also have one? He replied: Go and see. If mine is cut down, cut yours down, and if mine is not cut down you need not cut yours down. What was R. Jannai's idea at first [when he kept his tree] and afterwards [when he had it cut down]? — At first he thought that passers-by were glad of it because they could sit in its shade, but when he saw that they objected to it he had it cut down. Why did he not say to the man, Go and cut yours down and then I will cut down mine? — In conformity with the maxim of Resh Lakish, who said: [It is written], Hithkosheshu wakoshu trim yourselves and then trim others.



(Translation courtesy of the Soncino Talmud)








share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Dec 9 at 9:52

























answered Dec 9 at 8:18









Joel K

11.4k22276




11.4k22276







  • 2




    This may easily be just to make sure that the man had no excuse. It also doesn't say that you can't - just you should solve yourself first. If you have no intention of doing so it may be well b you should still tell off
    – Orangesandlemons
    Dec 9 at 9:44











  • @Orangesandlemons As far as your first question goes, I don’t see that it makes a difference. Reish Lakish is saying (for whatever reason) to fix up your own act first and then to rebuke others.
    – Joel K
    Dec 9 at 15:48












  • 2




    This may easily be just to make sure that the man had no excuse. It also doesn't say that you can't - just you should solve yourself first. If you have no intention of doing so it may be well b you should still tell off
    – Orangesandlemons
    Dec 9 at 9:44











  • @Orangesandlemons As far as your first question goes, I don’t see that it makes a difference. Reish Lakish is saying (for whatever reason) to fix up your own act first and then to rebuke others.
    – Joel K
    Dec 9 at 15:48







2




2




This may easily be just to make sure that the man had no excuse. It also doesn't say that you can't - just you should solve yourself first. If you have no intention of doing so it may be well b you should still tell off
– Orangesandlemons
Dec 9 at 9:44





This may easily be just to make sure that the man had no excuse. It also doesn't say that you can't - just you should solve yourself first. If you have no intention of doing so it may be well b you should still tell off
– Orangesandlemons
Dec 9 at 9:44













@Orangesandlemons As far as your first question goes, I don’t see that it makes a difference. Reish Lakish is saying (for whatever reason) to fix up your own act first and then to rebuke others.
– Joel K
Dec 9 at 15:48




@Orangesandlemons As far as your first question goes, I don’t see that it makes a difference. Reish Lakish is saying (for whatever reason) to fix up your own act first and then to rebuke others.
– Joel K
Dec 9 at 15:48










up vote
0
down vote













According to Rambam's rulings on Teshuva, it is a Mitzvah to publicize one's misdeeds to prevent others from sinning as a part of personal repent. This also ensures that he will not do it again, as required for a proper Teshuvah.



Exact quote needed.






share|improve this answer




















  • I think you would need a quote for this before saying such. But anyhow, check out my answer for this question here for insight: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:25














up vote
0
down vote













According to Rambam's rulings on Teshuva, it is a Mitzvah to publicize one's misdeeds to prevent others from sinning as a part of personal repent. This also ensures that he will not do it again, as required for a proper Teshuvah.



Exact quote needed.






share|improve this answer




















  • I think you would need a quote for this before saying such. But anyhow, check out my answer for this question here for insight: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:25












up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









According to Rambam's rulings on Teshuva, it is a Mitzvah to publicize one's misdeeds to prevent others from sinning as a part of personal repent. This also ensures that he will not do it again, as required for a proper Teshuvah.



Exact quote needed.






share|improve this answer












According to Rambam's rulings on Teshuva, it is a Mitzvah to publicize one's misdeeds to prevent others from sinning as a part of personal repent. This also ensures that he will not do it again, as required for a proper Teshuvah.



Exact quote needed.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Dec 9 at 8:54









Al Berko

4,168426




4,168426











  • I think you would need a quote for this before saying such. But anyhow, check out my answer for this question here for insight: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:25
















  • I think you would need a quote for this before saying such. But anyhow, check out my answer for this question here for insight: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
    – TrustMeI'mARabbi
    Dec 11 at 0:25















I think you would need a quote for this before saying such. But anyhow, check out my answer for this question here for insight: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
– TrustMeI'mARabbi
Dec 11 at 0:25




I think you would need a quote for this before saying such. But anyhow, check out my answer for this question here for insight: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/76658/loving-an-apikores
– TrustMeI'mARabbi
Dec 11 at 0:25


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