What are the parameters of the prohibition against a non-Jew learning Torah?

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The Gemara (Sanhedrin 58a) declared that a non-Jew is liable to death for learning Torah (at least the parts not relevant to him practically). If you read the passuk תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה literally, “The Torah did Moshe command us as an inheritance,” then if a non-Jew learns Torah, he’s in violation of theft; if you expound מורשה as מאורשה, then you get “The Torah did Moshe command us as a wife,” and then the non-Jew is in violation of adultery.



In practice, what should one’s response be if and when a non-Jew approaches him asking about some area of Halacha? Should the Jew explain it to him, perhaps as simply as possible without all the esoteric details, or should he not explain it at all, politely explaining why (while not quoting the above Gemara, as that would also be teaching him Torah)?










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  • Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/59704. This is not a dupe; you can look at this question as asking regarding the premise of that question, if you wish, but it’s certainly not asking that question itself.
    – DonielF
    5 hours ago










  • I can't imagine that there is a problem explaining the general parameters of the halacha to a Gentile. There are numerous practical examples where that would be necessary. E.g. - Numerous kosher stores hire Gentile workers to handle the food. It would be necessary to explain some general rules such as don't mix the meat with the dairy. Sometimes at work, a Jew needs to explain why he needs to leave early on Friday afternoons.
    – DanF
    1 hour ago














up vote
4
down vote

favorite












The Gemara (Sanhedrin 58a) declared that a non-Jew is liable to death for learning Torah (at least the parts not relevant to him practically). If you read the passuk תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה literally, “The Torah did Moshe command us as an inheritance,” then if a non-Jew learns Torah, he’s in violation of theft; if you expound מורשה as מאורשה, then you get “The Torah did Moshe command us as a wife,” and then the non-Jew is in violation of adultery.



In practice, what should one’s response be if and when a non-Jew approaches him asking about some area of Halacha? Should the Jew explain it to him, perhaps as simply as possible without all the esoteric details, or should he not explain it at all, politely explaining why (while not quoting the above Gemara, as that would also be teaching him Torah)?










share|improve this question























  • Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/59704. This is not a dupe; you can look at this question as asking regarding the premise of that question, if you wish, but it’s certainly not asking that question itself.
    – DonielF
    5 hours ago










  • I can't imagine that there is a problem explaining the general parameters of the halacha to a Gentile. There are numerous practical examples where that would be necessary. E.g. - Numerous kosher stores hire Gentile workers to handle the food. It would be necessary to explain some general rules such as don't mix the meat with the dairy. Sometimes at work, a Jew needs to explain why he needs to leave early on Friday afternoons.
    – DanF
    1 hour ago












up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











The Gemara (Sanhedrin 58a) declared that a non-Jew is liable to death for learning Torah (at least the parts not relevant to him practically). If you read the passuk תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה literally, “The Torah did Moshe command us as an inheritance,” then if a non-Jew learns Torah, he’s in violation of theft; if you expound מורשה as מאורשה, then you get “The Torah did Moshe command us as a wife,” and then the non-Jew is in violation of adultery.



In practice, what should one’s response be if and when a non-Jew approaches him asking about some area of Halacha? Should the Jew explain it to him, perhaps as simply as possible without all the esoteric details, or should he not explain it at all, politely explaining why (while not quoting the above Gemara, as that would also be teaching him Torah)?










share|improve this question















The Gemara (Sanhedrin 58a) declared that a non-Jew is liable to death for learning Torah (at least the parts not relevant to him practically). If you read the passuk תורה צוה לנו משה מורשה literally, “The Torah did Moshe command us as an inheritance,” then if a non-Jew learns Torah, he’s in violation of theft; if you expound מורשה as מאורשה, then you get “The Torah did Moshe command us as a wife,” and then the non-Jew is in violation of adultery.



In practice, what should one’s response be if and when a non-Jew approaches him asking about some area of Halacha? Should the Jew explain it to him, perhaps as simply as possible without all the esoteric details, or should he not explain it at all, politely explaining why (while not quoting the above Gemara, as that would also be teaching him Torah)?







halacha gentiles torah-study maseches-sanhedrin






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edited 21 mins ago









Isaac Moses♦

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asked 5 hours ago









DonielF

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  • Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/59704. This is not a dupe; you can look at this question as asking regarding the premise of that question, if you wish, but it’s certainly not asking that question itself.
    – DonielF
    5 hours ago










  • I can't imagine that there is a problem explaining the general parameters of the halacha to a Gentile. There are numerous practical examples where that would be necessary. E.g. - Numerous kosher stores hire Gentile workers to handle the food. It would be necessary to explain some general rules such as don't mix the meat with the dairy. Sometimes at work, a Jew needs to explain why he needs to leave early on Friday afternoons.
    – DanF
    1 hour ago
















  • Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/59704. This is not a dupe; you can look at this question as asking regarding the premise of that question, if you wish, but it’s certainly not asking that question itself.
    – DonielF
    5 hours ago










  • I can't imagine that there is a problem explaining the general parameters of the halacha to a Gentile. There are numerous practical examples where that would be necessary. E.g. - Numerous kosher stores hire Gentile workers to handle the food. It would be necessary to explain some general rules such as don't mix the meat with the dairy. Sometimes at work, a Jew needs to explain why he needs to leave early on Friday afternoons.
    – DanF
    1 hour ago















Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/59704. This is not a dupe; you can look at this question as asking regarding the premise of that question, if you wish, but it’s certainly not asking that question itself.
– DonielF
5 hours ago




Related: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/59704. This is not a dupe; you can look at this question as asking regarding the premise of that question, if you wish, but it’s certainly not asking that question itself.
– DonielF
5 hours ago












I can't imagine that there is a problem explaining the general parameters of the halacha to a Gentile. There are numerous practical examples where that would be necessary. E.g. - Numerous kosher stores hire Gentile workers to handle the food. It would be necessary to explain some general rules such as don't mix the meat with the dairy. Sometimes at work, a Jew needs to explain why he needs to leave early on Friday afternoons.
– DanF
1 hour ago




I can't imagine that there is a problem explaining the general parameters of the halacha to a Gentile. There are numerous practical examples where that would be necessary. E.g. - Numerous kosher stores hire Gentile workers to handle the food. It would be necessary to explain some general rules such as don't mix the meat with the dairy. Sometimes at work, a Jew needs to explain why he needs to leave early on Friday afternoons.
– DanF
1 hour ago










2 Answers
2






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up vote
5
down vote













R. Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg has a responsum that deals with this question. It is a lengthy responsum (and you should read it in it's entirety if you can) but one key point is what he derives from Rambam's wording of this rule:



Shu"t Seridei Eish 2:90 (Mosad Harav Kook edition)




יוצא מדבריו שהאיסור הוא רק בעושה לשם מצוה ומתכוון לחדש דת אבל לא
בלומד מאהבת חכמה או להכיר תורתם של ישראל וכמו בשבת שאם ישב בטל אינו
עובר אלא רק בקבע יום לשביתה כמו שכתב שם אם עשאהו לעצמו כמו שבת
(ועיין ברדב"ז שם שכתב כן) כן הדבר בתורה שהאיסור הוא רק אם קבע את
הלימוד לשם מצוה והרי הוסיף בזה על שבע מצותיו וחידש את דתם שלא כפי
המצווה עליו



It comes out from his words that the prohibition is only when [the
non-Jew] does it for the sake of the mitzvah and intends to
originate religion, but not if he learns out of love of wisdom or to
recognize the Torah of Israel. And just like with Shabbat where if
[the non-Jew] sat doing nothing he does not violate [the prohibition
of a non-Jew observing Shabbat] unless he designates the day for
resting, as he writes there "if he made it for himself as Shabbat"
(and see Radvaz there who writes this), so too it is with Torah – the
prohibition is only if he designates the learning for the sake of the
mitzvah, by which he is adding to the seven mitzvot and originating religion not in accordance with what was commanded to him.




He reiterates this later as well:




מכל מקום האיסור הוא רק אם הוא קובע הלימוד בתור מצוה ונוהג בעצמו מנהג
ישראל וכן בשבת אם קובע יום מיוחד לשביתה כנ"ל משא"כ אם הוא יושב בטל
מתוך עצלות או לומד תורה מתוך אהבת חכמה כמו שלומדים שאר חכמות או מתוך
רצון גרידא להכיר תורתן של ישראל אז אין שום איסור לא על העכו"ם ולא על
ישראל המלמדו



Nevertheless, the prohibition is only if [the non-Jew] designates the
learning as a manifestation of a mitzvah, and acts with himself
[according to] the custom of Israel. And so too with Shabbat, if he
designates a specific day for resting, as mentioned earlier. As
opposed to if he just sits doing nothing out of laziness, or he learns
Torah out of love of wisdom like learning other branches of wisdom or
out of simple desire to recognize the Torah of Israel, the there is no
prohibition – not on the non-Jew, nor on the Jew who teaches him.




He also adds that even in a situation where it is forbidden for the non-Jew to learn, it is probably not forbidden for the Jew to teach him:




ולפי דעתי אין איסור על המלמד אפילו במקום שמתכוון העכו"ם לשם מצוה שאין
זה דומה לנתינת יין לנזיר דהתם היין הוא המכשול משא"כ הכא אין התורה
המכשול אלא הקביעות והכוונה לחדש דת ויש לפלפל בזה



And in my opinion there is no prohibition on the teacher even in a
situation where the non-Jew intends it for the sake of the mitzvah,
for this is not comparable to giving wine to a nazir where the wine
[itself] is the stumbling block, whereas here it it is not the Torah
that is the stumbling block but the designation and intent to
originate religion [that is the stumbling block]. And there is what to
discuss about this.




So in sum, according to R. Weinberg's understanding of Rambam there would be no problem with a non-Jew asking a Jew to explain some area of halacha, unless the non-Jew is doing it because he wants to fulfill the mitzvah of learning Torah, and even then there would probably be no problem for the Jew to provide the explanation because by teaching him Torah he is not providing him with the forbidden object, as the forbidden object in this case is the non-Jew's intent.






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  • You're great at finding sources, but frankly - from this source - is it clear for you why and what Talmud Torah a Goy is capitally liable for? How a Goy can intend for a Mitzvah if he admits he's not commanded? But otherwise, he repeats my answer, which I think states it more clearly.
    – Al Berko
    36 mins ago










  • BTW, what he calls "מצווה" is #2 on my list, as I said a Goy can not intend to perform a Mitzvah but can intend to get in close relations to G-d which G-d forbids (unless he converts).
    – Al Berko
    28 mins ago

















up vote
-1
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Learning Torah is manifested in two parts:



  1. Knowing it, remembering it and fulfilling it in practice. This is not different from any other profession or science - one studies it to know it and to implement the knowledge in his life.


  2. Enjoying the process of studying the Torah as a mean to get close to G-d (some sort of metaphorical intimate relations between G-d and the Jews). This part is solely intended for the Jewish people and a Non-Jew that would study it in this way would be liable to the death penalty as one that would have relations with a Jewish woman.


Therefore Gentiles are not only permitted to study the Torah extensively in the first way, but, according to the Gemmorah in Kiddushin and Rambam in Hichot Talmud Torah, they are rewarded for that as ones that are not commanded but still perform the commandment. So any Gentile that wants to KNOW more is welcomed.



There are, however, parts of the Jewish tradition called the "Sod", like the "intimate parts of the Torah" that are forbidden to be taught to the Gentiles. This does not include any practical Halachot.




It seems that the same reasoning applies to [the Sugya of] women and the study of the Torah.



PS. Not many people understand this distinction as the [common] Litvakes approach is almost exclusively intellectual, based on the meticulous study. On the contrary, the Chassidic approach is "כיוון שחסידים הם תורתן משתמרת", as he stories about BaSH"T go.






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  • 6




    This answer would be a great deal more valuable if any of its assertions were backed up with sources.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    1 hour ago










  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    30 mins ago










  • @IsaacMoses Why don't we discuss the very idea instead of discussing the credentials. Do you agree with it? I tried to be as clear as possible.
    – Al Berko
    30 mins ago


















2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
5
down vote













R. Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg has a responsum that deals with this question. It is a lengthy responsum (and you should read it in it's entirety if you can) but one key point is what he derives from Rambam's wording of this rule:



Shu"t Seridei Eish 2:90 (Mosad Harav Kook edition)




יוצא מדבריו שהאיסור הוא רק בעושה לשם מצוה ומתכוון לחדש דת אבל לא
בלומד מאהבת חכמה או להכיר תורתם של ישראל וכמו בשבת שאם ישב בטל אינו
עובר אלא רק בקבע יום לשביתה כמו שכתב שם אם עשאהו לעצמו כמו שבת
(ועיין ברדב"ז שם שכתב כן) כן הדבר בתורה שהאיסור הוא רק אם קבע את
הלימוד לשם מצוה והרי הוסיף בזה על שבע מצותיו וחידש את דתם שלא כפי
המצווה עליו



It comes out from his words that the prohibition is only when [the
non-Jew] does it for the sake of the mitzvah and intends to
originate religion, but not if he learns out of love of wisdom or to
recognize the Torah of Israel. And just like with Shabbat where if
[the non-Jew] sat doing nothing he does not violate [the prohibition
of a non-Jew observing Shabbat] unless he designates the day for
resting, as he writes there "if he made it for himself as Shabbat"
(and see Radvaz there who writes this), so too it is with Torah – the
prohibition is only if he designates the learning for the sake of the
mitzvah, by which he is adding to the seven mitzvot and originating religion not in accordance with what was commanded to him.




He reiterates this later as well:




מכל מקום האיסור הוא רק אם הוא קובע הלימוד בתור מצוה ונוהג בעצמו מנהג
ישראל וכן בשבת אם קובע יום מיוחד לשביתה כנ"ל משא"כ אם הוא יושב בטל
מתוך עצלות או לומד תורה מתוך אהבת חכמה כמו שלומדים שאר חכמות או מתוך
רצון גרידא להכיר תורתן של ישראל אז אין שום איסור לא על העכו"ם ולא על
ישראל המלמדו



Nevertheless, the prohibition is only if [the non-Jew] designates the
learning as a manifestation of a mitzvah, and acts with himself
[according to] the custom of Israel. And so too with Shabbat, if he
designates a specific day for resting, as mentioned earlier. As
opposed to if he just sits doing nothing out of laziness, or he learns
Torah out of love of wisdom like learning other branches of wisdom or
out of simple desire to recognize the Torah of Israel, the there is no
prohibition – not on the non-Jew, nor on the Jew who teaches him.




He also adds that even in a situation where it is forbidden for the non-Jew to learn, it is probably not forbidden for the Jew to teach him:




ולפי דעתי אין איסור על המלמד אפילו במקום שמתכוון העכו"ם לשם מצוה שאין
זה דומה לנתינת יין לנזיר דהתם היין הוא המכשול משא"כ הכא אין התורה
המכשול אלא הקביעות והכוונה לחדש דת ויש לפלפל בזה



And in my opinion there is no prohibition on the teacher even in a
situation where the non-Jew intends it for the sake of the mitzvah,
for this is not comparable to giving wine to a nazir where the wine
[itself] is the stumbling block, whereas here it it is not the Torah
that is the stumbling block but the designation and intent to
originate religion [that is the stumbling block]. And there is what to
discuss about this.




So in sum, according to R. Weinberg's understanding of Rambam there would be no problem with a non-Jew asking a Jew to explain some area of halacha, unless the non-Jew is doing it because he wants to fulfill the mitzvah of learning Torah, and even then there would probably be no problem for the Jew to provide the explanation because by teaching him Torah he is not providing him with the forbidden object, as the forbidden object in this case is the non-Jew's intent.






share|improve this answer






















  • You're great at finding sources, but frankly - from this source - is it clear for you why and what Talmud Torah a Goy is capitally liable for? How a Goy can intend for a Mitzvah if he admits he's not commanded? But otherwise, he repeats my answer, which I think states it more clearly.
    – Al Berko
    36 mins ago










  • BTW, what he calls "מצווה" is #2 on my list, as I said a Goy can not intend to perform a Mitzvah but can intend to get in close relations to G-d which G-d forbids (unless he converts).
    – Al Berko
    28 mins ago














up vote
5
down vote













R. Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg has a responsum that deals with this question. It is a lengthy responsum (and you should read it in it's entirety if you can) but one key point is what he derives from Rambam's wording of this rule:



Shu"t Seridei Eish 2:90 (Mosad Harav Kook edition)




יוצא מדבריו שהאיסור הוא רק בעושה לשם מצוה ומתכוון לחדש דת אבל לא
בלומד מאהבת חכמה או להכיר תורתם של ישראל וכמו בשבת שאם ישב בטל אינו
עובר אלא רק בקבע יום לשביתה כמו שכתב שם אם עשאהו לעצמו כמו שבת
(ועיין ברדב"ז שם שכתב כן) כן הדבר בתורה שהאיסור הוא רק אם קבע את
הלימוד לשם מצוה והרי הוסיף בזה על שבע מצותיו וחידש את דתם שלא כפי
המצווה עליו



It comes out from his words that the prohibition is only when [the
non-Jew] does it for the sake of the mitzvah and intends to
originate religion, but not if he learns out of love of wisdom or to
recognize the Torah of Israel. And just like with Shabbat where if
[the non-Jew] sat doing nothing he does not violate [the prohibition
of a non-Jew observing Shabbat] unless he designates the day for
resting, as he writes there "if he made it for himself as Shabbat"
(and see Radvaz there who writes this), so too it is with Torah – the
prohibition is only if he designates the learning for the sake of the
mitzvah, by which he is adding to the seven mitzvot and originating religion not in accordance with what was commanded to him.




He reiterates this later as well:




מכל מקום האיסור הוא רק אם הוא קובע הלימוד בתור מצוה ונוהג בעצמו מנהג
ישראל וכן בשבת אם קובע יום מיוחד לשביתה כנ"ל משא"כ אם הוא יושב בטל
מתוך עצלות או לומד תורה מתוך אהבת חכמה כמו שלומדים שאר חכמות או מתוך
רצון גרידא להכיר תורתן של ישראל אז אין שום איסור לא על העכו"ם ולא על
ישראל המלמדו



Nevertheless, the prohibition is only if [the non-Jew] designates the
learning as a manifestation of a mitzvah, and acts with himself
[according to] the custom of Israel. And so too with Shabbat, if he
designates a specific day for resting, as mentioned earlier. As
opposed to if he just sits doing nothing out of laziness, or he learns
Torah out of love of wisdom like learning other branches of wisdom or
out of simple desire to recognize the Torah of Israel, the there is no
prohibition – not on the non-Jew, nor on the Jew who teaches him.




He also adds that even in a situation where it is forbidden for the non-Jew to learn, it is probably not forbidden for the Jew to teach him:




ולפי דעתי אין איסור על המלמד אפילו במקום שמתכוון העכו"ם לשם מצוה שאין
זה דומה לנתינת יין לנזיר דהתם היין הוא המכשול משא"כ הכא אין התורה
המכשול אלא הקביעות והכוונה לחדש דת ויש לפלפל בזה



And in my opinion there is no prohibition on the teacher even in a
situation where the non-Jew intends it for the sake of the mitzvah,
for this is not comparable to giving wine to a nazir where the wine
[itself] is the stumbling block, whereas here it it is not the Torah
that is the stumbling block but the designation and intent to
originate religion [that is the stumbling block]. And there is what to
discuss about this.




So in sum, according to R. Weinberg's understanding of Rambam there would be no problem with a non-Jew asking a Jew to explain some area of halacha, unless the non-Jew is doing it because he wants to fulfill the mitzvah of learning Torah, and even then there would probably be no problem for the Jew to provide the explanation because by teaching him Torah he is not providing him with the forbidden object, as the forbidden object in this case is the non-Jew's intent.






share|improve this answer






















  • You're great at finding sources, but frankly - from this source - is it clear for you why and what Talmud Torah a Goy is capitally liable for? How a Goy can intend for a Mitzvah if he admits he's not commanded? But otherwise, he repeats my answer, which I think states it more clearly.
    – Al Berko
    36 mins ago










  • BTW, what he calls "מצווה" is #2 on my list, as I said a Goy can not intend to perform a Mitzvah but can intend to get in close relations to G-d which G-d forbids (unless he converts).
    – Al Berko
    28 mins ago












up vote
5
down vote










up vote
5
down vote









R. Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg has a responsum that deals with this question. It is a lengthy responsum (and you should read it in it's entirety if you can) but one key point is what he derives from Rambam's wording of this rule:



Shu"t Seridei Eish 2:90 (Mosad Harav Kook edition)




יוצא מדבריו שהאיסור הוא רק בעושה לשם מצוה ומתכוון לחדש דת אבל לא
בלומד מאהבת חכמה או להכיר תורתם של ישראל וכמו בשבת שאם ישב בטל אינו
עובר אלא רק בקבע יום לשביתה כמו שכתב שם אם עשאהו לעצמו כמו שבת
(ועיין ברדב"ז שם שכתב כן) כן הדבר בתורה שהאיסור הוא רק אם קבע את
הלימוד לשם מצוה והרי הוסיף בזה על שבע מצותיו וחידש את דתם שלא כפי
המצווה עליו



It comes out from his words that the prohibition is only when [the
non-Jew] does it for the sake of the mitzvah and intends to
originate religion, but not if he learns out of love of wisdom or to
recognize the Torah of Israel. And just like with Shabbat where if
[the non-Jew] sat doing nothing he does not violate [the prohibition
of a non-Jew observing Shabbat] unless he designates the day for
resting, as he writes there "if he made it for himself as Shabbat"
(and see Radvaz there who writes this), so too it is with Torah – the
prohibition is only if he designates the learning for the sake of the
mitzvah, by which he is adding to the seven mitzvot and originating religion not in accordance with what was commanded to him.




He reiterates this later as well:




מכל מקום האיסור הוא רק אם הוא קובע הלימוד בתור מצוה ונוהג בעצמו מנהג
ישראל וכן בשבת אם קובע יום מיוחד לשביתה כנ"ל משא"כ אם הוא יושב בטל
מתוך עצלות או לומד תורה מתוך אהבת חכמה כמו שלומדים שאר חכמות או מתוך
רצון גרידא להכיר תורתן של ישראל אז אין שום איסור לא על העכו"ם ולא על
ישראל המלמדו



Nevertheless, the prohibition is only if [the non-Jew] designates the
learning as a manifestation of a mitzvah, and acts with himself
[according to] the custom of Israel. And so too with Shabbat, if he
designates a specific day for resting, as mentioned earlier. As
opposed to if he just sits doing nothing out of laziness, or he learns
Torah out of love of wisdom like learning other branches of wisdom or
out of simple desire to recognize the Torah of Israel, the there is no
prohibition – not on the non-Jew, nor on the Jew who teaches him.




He also adds that even in a situation where it is forbidden for the non-Jew to learn, it is probably not forbidden for the Jew to teach him:




ולפי דעתי אין איסור על המלמד אפילו במקום שמתכוון העכו"ם לשם מצוה שאין
זה דומה לנתינת יין לנזיר דהתם היין הוא המכשול משא"כ הכא אין התורה
המכשול אלא הקביעות והכוונה לחדש דת ויש לפלפל בזה



And in my opinion there is no prohibition on the teacher even in a
situation where the non-Jew intends it for the sake of the mitzvah,
for this is not comparable to giving wine to a nazir where the wine
[itself] is the stumbling block, whereas here it it is not the Torah
that is the stumbling block but the designation and intent to
originate religion [that is the stumbling block]. And there is what to
discuss about this.




So in sum, according to R. Weinberg's understanding of Rambam there would be no problem with a non-Jew asking a Jew to explain some area of halacha, unless the non-Jew is doing it because he wants to fulfill the mitzvah of learning Torah, and even then there would probably be no problem for the Jew to provide the explanation because by teaching him Torah he is not providing him with the forbidden object, as the forbidden object in this case is the non-Jew's intent.






share|improve this answer














R. Yechiel Yaakov Weinberg has a responsum that deals with this question. It is a lengthy responsum (and you should read it in it's entirety if you can) but one key point is what he derives from Rambam's wording of this rule:



Shu"t Seridei Eish 2:90 (Mosad Harav Kook edition)




יוצא מדבריו שהאיסור הוא רק בעושה לשם מצוה ומתכוון לחדש דת אבל לא
בלומד מאהבת חכמה או להכיר תורתם של ישראל וכמו בשבת שאם ישב בטל אינו
עובר אלא רק בקבע יום לשביתה כמו שכתב שם אם עשאהו לעצמו כמו שבת
(ועיין ברדב"ז שם שכתב כן) כן הדבר בתורה שהאיסור הוא רק אם קבע את
הלימוד לשם מצוה והרי הוסיף בזה על שבע מצותיו וחידש את דתם שלא כפי
המצווה עליו



It comes out from his words that the prohibition is only when [the
non-Jew] does it for the sake of the mitzvah and intends to
originate religion, but not if he learns out of love of wisdom or to
recognize the Torah of Israel. And just like with Shabbat where if
[the non-Jew] sat doing nothing he does not violate [the prohibition
of a non-Jew observing Shabbat] unless he designates the day for
resting, as he writes there "if he made it for himself as Shabbat"
(and see Radvaz there who writes this), so too it is with Torah – the
prohibition is only if he designates the learning for the sake of the
mitzvah, by which he is adding to the seven mitzvot and originating religion not in accordance with what was commanded to him.




He reiterates this later as well:




מכל מקום האיסור הוא רק אם הוא קובע הלימוד בתור מצוה ונוהג בעצמו מנהג
ישראל וכן בשבת אם קובע יום מיוחד לשביתה כנ"ל משא"כ אם הוא יושב בטל
מתוך עצלות או לומד תורה מתוך אהבת חכמה כמו שלומדים שאר חכמות או מתוך
רצון גרידא להכיר תורתן של ישראל אז אין שום איסור לא על העכו"ם ולא על
ישראל המלמדו



Nevertheless, the prohibition is only if [the non-Jew] designates the
learning as a manifestation of a mitzvah, and acts with himself
[according to] the custom of Israel. And so too with Shabbat, if he
designates a specific day for resting, as mentioned earlier. As
opposed to if he just sits doing nothing out of laziness, or he learns
Torah out of love of wisdom like learning other branches of wisdom or
out of simple desire to recognize the Torah of Israel, the there is no
prohibition – not on the non-Jew, nor on the Jew who teaches him.




He also adds that even in a situation where it is forbidden for the non-Jew to learn, it is probably not forbidden for the Jew to teach him:




ולפי דעתי אין איסור על המלמד אפילו במקום שמתכוון העכו"ם לשם מצוה שאין
זה דומה לנתינת יין לנזיר דהתם היין הוא המכשול משא"כ הכא אין התורה
המכשול אלא הקביעות והכוונה לחדש דת ויש לפלפל בזה



And in my opinion there is no prohibition on the teacher even in a
situation where the non-Jew intends it for the sake of the mitzvah,
for this is not comparable to giving wine to a nazir where the wine
[itself] is the stumbling block, whereas here it it is not the Torah
that is the stumbling block but the designation and intent to
originate religion [that is the stumbling block]. And there is what to
discuss about this.




So in sum, according to R. Weinberg's understanding of Rambam there would be no problem with a non-Jew asking a Jew to explain some area of halacha, unless the non-Jew is doing it because he wants to fulfill the mitzvah of learning Torah, and even then there would probably be no problem for the Jew to provide the explanation because by teaching him Torah he is not providing him with the forbidden object, as the forbidden object in this case is the non-Jew's intent.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 52 mins ago

























answered 57 mins ago









Alex

14.8k3377




14.8k3377











  • You're great at finding sources, but frankly - from this source - is it clear for you why and what Talmud Torah a Goy is capitally liable for? How a Goy can intend for a Mitzvah if he admits he's not commanded? But otherwise, he repeats my answer, which I think states it more clearly.
    – Al Berko
    36 mins ago










  • BTW, what he calls "מצווה" is #2 on my list, as I said a Goy can not intend to perform a Mitzvah but can intend to get in close relations to G-d which G-d forbids (unless he converts).
    – Al Berko
    28 mins ago
















  • You're great at finding sources, but frankly - from this source - is it clear for you why and what Talmud Torah a Goy is capitally liable for? How a Goy can intend for a Mitzvah if he admits he's not commanded? But otherwise, he repeats my answer, which I think states it more clearly.
    – Al Berko
    36 mins ago










  • BTW, what he calls "מצווה" is #2 on my list, as I said a Goy can not intend to perform a Mitzvah but can intend to get in close relations to G-d which G-d forbids (unless he converts).
    – Al Berko
    28 mins ago















You're great at finding sources, but frankly - from this source - is it clear for you why and what Talmud Torah a Goy is capitally liable for? How a Goy can intend for a Mitzvah if he admits he's not commanded? But otherwise, he repeats my answer, which I think states it more clearly.
– Al Berko
36 mins ago




You're great at finding sources, but frankly - from this source - is it clear for you why and what Talmud Torah a Goy is capitally liable for? How a Goy can intend for a Mitzvah if he admits he's not commanded? But otherwise, he repeats my answer, which I think states it more clearly.
– Al Berko
36 mins ago












BTW, what he calls "מצווה" is #2 on my list, as I said a Goy can not intend to perform a Mitzvah but can intend to get in close relations to G-d which G-d forbids (unless he converts).
– Al Berko
28 mins ago




BTW, what he calls "מצווה" is #2 on my list, as I said a Goy can not intend to perform a Mitzvah but can intend to get in close relations to G-d which G-d forbids (unless he converts).
– Al Berko
28 mins ago










up vote
-1
down vote













Learning Torah is manifested in two parts:



  1. Knowing it, remembering it and fulfilling it in practice. This is not different from any other profession or science - one studies it to know it and to implement the knowledge in his life.


  2. Enjoying the process of studying the Torah as a mean to get close to G-d (some sort of metaphorical intimate relations between G-d and the Jews). This part is solely intended for the Jewish people and a Non-Jew that would study it in this way would be liable to the death penalty as one that would have relations with a Jewish woman.


Therefore Gentiles are not only permitted to study the Torah extensively in the first way, but, according to the Gemmorah in Kiddushin and Rambam in Hichot Talmud Torah, they are rewarded for that as ones that are not commanded but still perform the commandment. So any Gentile that wants to KNOW more is welcomed.



There are, however, parts of the Jewish tradition called the "Sod", like the "intimate parts of the Torah" that are forbidden to be taught to the Gentiles. This does not include any practical Halachot.




It seems that the same reasoning applies to [the Sugya of] women and the study of the Torah.



PS. Not many people understand this distinction as the [common] Litvakes approach is almost exclusively intellectual, based on the meticulous study. On the contrary, the Chassidic approach is "כיוון שחסידים הם תורתן משתמרת", as he stories about BaSH"T go.






share|improve this answer


















  • 6




    This answer would be a great deal more valuable if any of its assertions were backed up with sources.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    1 hour ago










  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    30 mins ago










  • @IsaacMoses Why don't we discuss the very idea instead of discussing the credentials. Do you agree with it? I tried to be as clear as possible.
    – Al Berko
    30 mins ago














up vote
-1
down vote













Learning Torah is manifested in two parts:



  1. Knowing it, remembering it and fulfilling it in practice. This is not different from any other profession or science - one studies it to know it and to implement the knowledge in his life.


  2. Enjoying the process of studying the Torah as a mean to get close to G-d (some sort of metaphorical intimate relations between G-d and the Jews). This part is solely intended for the Jewish people and a Non-Jew that would study it in this way would be liable to the death penalty as one that would have relations with a Jewish woman.


Therefore Gentiles are not only permitted to study the Torah extensively in the first way, but, according to the Gemmorah in Kiddushin and Rambam in Hichot Talmud Torah, they are rewarded for that as ones that are not commanded but still perform the commandment. So any Gentile that wants to KNOW more is welcomed.



There are, however, parts of the Jewish tradition called the "Sod", like the "intimate parts of the Torah" that are forbidden to be taught to the Gentiles. This does not include any practical Halachot.




It seems that the same reasoning applies to [the Sugya of] women and the study of the Torah.



PS. Not many people understand this distinction as the [common] Litvakes approach is almost exclusively intellectual, based on the meticulous study. On the contrary, the Chassidic approach is "כיוון שחסידים הם תורתן משתמרת", as he stories about BaSH"T go.






share|improve this answer


















  • 6




    This answer would be a great deal more valuable if any of its assertions were backed up with sources.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    1 hour ago










  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    30 mins ago










  • @IsaacMoses Why don't we discuss the very idea instead of discussing the credentials. Do you agree with it? I tried to be as clear as possible.
    – Al Berko
    30 mins ago












up vote
-1
down vote










up vote
-1
down vote









Learning Torah is manifested in two parts:



  1. Knowing it, remembering it and fulfilling it in practice. This is not different from any other profession or science - one studies it to know it and to implement the knowledge in his life.


  2. Enjoying the process of studying the Torah as a mean to get close to G-d (some sort of metaphorical intimate relations between G-d and the Jews). This part is solely intended for the Jewish people and a Non-Jew that would study it in this way would be liable to the death penalty as one that would have relations with a Jewish woman.


Therefore Gentiles are not only permitted to study the Torah extensively in the first way, but, according to the Gemmorah in Kiddushin and Rambam in Hichot Talmud Torah, they are rewarded for that as ones that are not commanded but still perform the commandment. So any Gentile that wants to KNOW more is welcomed.



There are, however, parts of the Jewish tradition called the "Sod", like the "intimate parts of the Torah" that are forbidden to be taught to the Gentiles. This does not include any practical Halachot.




It seems that the same reasoning applies to [the Sugya of] women and the study of the Torah.



PS. Not many people understand this distinction as the [common] Litvakes approach is almost exclusively intellectual, based on the meticulous study. On the contrary, the Chassidic approach is "כיוון שחסידים הם תורתן משתמרת", as he stories about BaSH"T go.






share|improve this answer














Learning Torah is manifested in two parts:



  1. Knowing it, remembering it and fulfilling it in practice. This is not different from any other profession or science - one studies it to know it and to implement the knowledge in his life.


  2. Enjoying the process of studying the Torah as a mean to get close to G-d (some sort of metaphorical intimate relations between G-d and the Jews). This part is solely intended for the Jewish people and a Non-Jew that would study it in this way would be liable to the death penalty as one that would have relations with a Jewish woman.


Therefore Gentiles are not only permitted to study the Torah extensively in the first way, but, according to the Gemmorah in Kiddushin and Rambam in Hichot Talmud Torah, they are rewarded for that as ones that are not commanded but still perform the commandment. So any Gentile that wants to KNOW more is welcomed.



There are, however, parts of the Jewish tradition called the "Sod", like the "intimate parts of the Torah" that are forbidden to be taught to the Gentiles. This does not include any practical Halachot.




It seems that the same reasoning applies to [the Sugya of] women and the study of the Torah.



PS. Not many people understand this distinction as the [common] Litvakes approach is almost exclusively intellectual, based on the meticulous study. On the contrary, the Chassidic approach is "כיוון שחסידים הם תורתן משתמרת", as he stories about BaSH"T go.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 1 hour ago

























answered 1 hour ago









Al Berko

2,854422




2,854422







  • 6




    This answer would be a great deal more valuable if any of its assertions were backed up with sources.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    1 hour ago










  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    30 mins ago










  • @IsaacMoses Why don't we discuss the very idea instead of discussing the credentials. Do you agree with it? I tried to be as clear as possible.
    – Al Berko
    30 mins ago












  • 6




    This answer would be a great deal more valuable if any of its assertions were backed up with sources.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    1 hour ago










  • Let us continue this discussion in chat.
    – Isaac Moses♦
    30 mins ago










  • @IsaacMoses Why don't we discuss the very idea instead of discussing the credentials. Do you agree with it? I tried to be as clear as possible.
    – Al Berko
    30 mins ago







6




6




This answer would be a great deal more valuable if any of its assertions were backed up with sources.
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago




This answer would be a great deal more valuable if any of its assertions were backed up with sources.
– Isaac Moses♦
1 hour ago












Let us continue this discussion in chat.
– Isaac Moses♦
30 mins ago




Let us continue this discussion in chat.
– Isaac Moses♦
30 mins ago












@IsaacMoses Why don't we discuss the very idea instead of discussing the credentials. Do you agree with it? I tried to be as clear as possible.
– Al Berko
30 mins ago




@IsaacMoses Why don't we discuss the very idea instead of discussing the credentials. Do you agree with it? I tried to be as clear as possible.
– Al Berko
30 mins ago


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