High pressure canisters of air as gun-less projectiles

The name of the pictureThe name of the pictureThe name of the pictureClash Royale CLAN TAG#URR8PPP












8












$begingroup$


Imagine a small metal canister, with a narrow exit on the top. There is a sort of door covering this, with a metal plate that is removed from the side. The pressure inside of the canister acts as a propellant, launching the weapon forward and propelling it through flight.



My question is: would this work? Some reasons I can think of that may cause this to not work:



  • Horrible accuracy

  • The opening would have to be too small to be plausible

  • The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after

  • The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous

Imagine modern or slightly above modern tech, and enemies at distances of +/- 50 meters.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    here's a Question i asked that is similar hope it can give you some pointers worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/105342/…
    $endgroup$
    – Creed Arcon
    Mar 3 at 2:59






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after" - The laws of physics say that second part doesn't happen (at least, in a way that makes the weapon ineffective). Consider your typical projectile fired out of a gun. It stops receiving thrust "instantly" (as soon as it exits the barrel), but can remain airborne long enough to accurately strike targets hundreds of meters away or more.
    $endgroup$
    – aroth
    Mar 3 at 3:32







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "gun-less" - do you mean barrel less?
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Mar 3 at 18:37






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Water rocket with a bladder to allow horizontal operation might work.
    $endgroup$
    – KalleMP
    Mar 3 at 19:20















8












$begingroup$


Imagine a small metal canister, with a narrow exit on the top. There is a sort of door covering this, with a metal plate that is removed from the side. The pressure inside of the canister acts as a propellant, launching the weapon forward and propelling it through flight.



My question is: would this work? Some reasons I can think of that may cause this to not work:



  • Horrible accuracy

  • The opening would have to be too small to be plausible

  • The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after

  • The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous

Imagine modern or slightly above modern tech, and enemies at distances of +/- 50 meters.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    here's a Question i asked that is similar hope it can give you some pointers worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/105342/…
    $endgroup$
    – Creed Arcon
    Mar 3 at 2:59






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after" - The laws of physics say that second part doesn't happen (at least, in a way that makes the weapon ineffective). Consider your typical projectile fired out of a gun. It stops receiving thrust "instantly" (as soon as it exits the barrel), but can remain airborne long enough to accurately strike targets hundreds of meters away or more.
    $endgroup$
    – aroth
    Mar 3 at 3:32







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "gun-less" - do you mean barrel less?
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Mar 3 at 18:37






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Water rocket with a bladder to allow horizontal operation might work.
    $endgroup$
    – KalleMP
    Mar 3 at 19:20













8












8








8


1



$begingroup$


Imagine a small metal canister, with a narrow exit on the top. There is a sort of door covering this, with a metal plate that is removed from the side. The pressure inside of the canister acts as a propellant, launching the weapon forward and propelling it through flight.



My question is: would this work? Some reasons I can think of that may cause this to not work:



  • Horrible accuracy

  • The opening would have to be too small to be plausible

  • The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after

  • The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous

Imagine modern or slightly above modern tech, and enemies at distances of +/- 50 meters.










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




Imagine a small metal canister, with a narrow exit on the top. There is a sort of door covering this, with a metal plate that is removed from the side. The pressure inside of the canister acts as a propellant, launching the weapon forward and propelling it through flight.



My question is: would this work? Some reasons I can think of that may cause this to not work:



  • Horrible accuracy

  • The opening would have to be too small to be plausible

  • The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after

  • The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous

Imagine modern or slightly above modern tech, and enemies at distances of +/- 50 meters.







weapons






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Mar 3 at 1:17









Redwolf ProgramsRedwolf Programs

1,0701724




1,0701724











  • $begingroup$
    here's a Question i asked that is similar hope it can give you some pointers worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/105342/…
    $endgroup$
    – Creed Arcon
    Mar 3 at 2:59






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after" - The laws of physics say that second part doesn't happen (at least, in a way that makes the weapon ineffective). Consider your typical projectile fired out of a gun. It stops receiving thrust "instantly" (as soon as it exits the barrel), but can remain airborne long enough to accurately strike targets hundreds of meters away or more.
    $endgroup$
    – aroth
    Mar 3 at 3:32







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "gun-less" - do you mean barrel less?
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Mar 3 at 18:37






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Water rocket with a bladder to allow horizontal operation might work.
    $endgroup$
    – KalleMP
    Mar 3 at 19:20
















  • $begingroup$
    here's a Question i asked that is similar hope it can give you some pointers worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/105342/…
    $endgroup$
    – Creed Arcon
    Mar 3 at 2:59






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    "The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after" - The laws of physics say that second part doesn't happen (at least, in a way that makes the weapon ineffective). Consider your typical projectile fired out of a gun. It stops receiving thrust "instantly" (as soon as it exits the barrel), but can remain airborne long enough to accurately strike targets hundreds of meters away or more.
    $endgroup$
    – aroth
    Mar 3 at 3:32







  • 1




    $begingroup$
    "gun-less" - do you mean barrel less?
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Mar 3 at 18:37






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Water rocket with a bladder to allow horizontal operation might work.
    $endgroup$
    – KalleMP
    Mar 3 at 19:20















$begingroup$
here's a Question i asked that is similar hope it can give you some pointers worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/105342/…
$endgroup$
– Creed Arcon
Mar 3 at 2:59




$begingroup$
here's a Question i asked that is similar hope it can give you some pointers worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/105342/…
$endgroup$
– Creed Arcon
Mar 3 at 2:59




3




3




$begingroup$
"The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after" - The laws of physics say that second part doesn't happen (at least, in a way that makes the weapon ineffective). Consider your typical projectile fired out of a gun. It stops receiving thrust "instantly" (as soon as it exits the barrel), but can remain airborne long enough to accurately strike targets hundreds of meters away or more.
$endgroup$
– aroth
Mar 3 at 3:32





$begingroup$
"The canister would run out of air instantly, and fall to the ground shortly after" - The laws of physics say that second part doesn't happen (at least, in a way that makes the weapon ineffective). Consider your typical projectile fired out of a gun. It stops receiving thrust "instantly" (as soon as it exits the barrel), but can remain airborne long enough to accurately strike targets hundreds of meters away or more.
$endgroup$
– aroth
Mar 3 at 3:32





1




1




$begingroup$
"gun-less" - do you mean barrel less?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
Mar 3 at 18:37




$begingroup$
"gun-less" - do you mean barrel less?
$endgroup$
– Mazura
Mar 3 at 18:37




1




1




$begingroup$
Water rocket with a bladder to allow horizontal operation might work.
$endgroup$
– KalleMP
Mar 3 at 19:20




$begingroup$
Water rocket with a bladder to allow horizontal operation might work.
$endgroup$
– KalleMP
Mar 3 at 19:20










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















20












$begingroup$

Here at Weapons R Us, we strive to offer the latest in amazingly inaccurate & astoundingly cumbersome weapons. In fact, we offer two models of precisely the weapons system you're looking for!



enter image description here



First, our Basic Can & Stick; this is our easy to understand, step by step how-to instructional video, shot on site at our manufacturing plant in Siberia.



Second, our Deluxe Rocket Can; this is Myth Busters trying our our latest product!



And finally, at WRS's Backcountry R & D facility; here we are testing our anti-aircraft launch mechanism.



Basic model takes a bit of coaxing to activate, but is quite effective. Our deluxe model is, generally speaking, an instant success! Contrary to mythconception, this weapon system is relatively easy to mass produce and not terribly expensive. As you can imagine, even the cans are recyclable!






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Can't stop laughing at the first one...
    $endgroup$
    – Redwolf Programs
    Mar 3 at 1:48






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I admit it. I watched all three of those videos. Ha ha ha!
    $endgroup$
    – Cyn
    Mar 3 at 2:32






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Darwin Award Winner wannabees.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    Mar 3 at 3:09


















8












$begingroup$

No, this is not practical



You mention in your question the concern that "The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous", which implies you're concerned about this being a practical or mass produced weapon. From that perspective, no, this doesn't work, for the simple reason that you are firing your pressure vessel at the enemy, instead of using the pressure vessel to fire a projectile at them. The latter approach has historically been used extensively, and there is no justification for not taking this approach with pneumatic weapons.



  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife


  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holman_Projector (originally powered by compressed air)

  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

In all of the video instances noted by @elemtilas, non-combatants are using extant pressure vessels in a very wasteful manner. With any of those devices, it would be more practical to use the large canister to fire larger number of lightweight projectiles, i.e. flechettes, and then still have the canister to use when you're done!






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Keep in mind: the typical Youtube video largely consists of ill informed boys saying things like "oo, I wonder if this will explode? --- let's bang on it and find out!!" The question doesn't actually require the weapon to be "practical", which is a different consideration entirely. As a rejoinder: one could simply strap a high explosive charge and shrapnel packets onto the CO2 tank...oh, wait. We already do that ... they're called missiles! I'd argue it's far more practical to produce a simple pressurised canister than it is fiddling around with propellents, at the prescribed ranges.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 3 at 18:00






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Girandoni air rifle, circa 1779, used on the Lewis and Clark Expedition, +1
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Mar 3 at 18:35






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @elimtilas I didn’t mean any disrespect to your answer, but by asking whether “the cost/energy” is prohibitive, production is implied, and that pulls in practicality. Yes, it’s simpler to produce a pressurized canister, but there’s no reason to then launch the canister itself: use it to launch the projectile of your choice. As the Holman projector shows, air pressure based grenade launchers are a viable weapon.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel B
    Mar 3 at 18:36










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, I didn't take it as disrespect! My point was simply simply that the OP asks if it will work. Cost/energy and so forth seem to be ruminations on why it won't. To be honest, compressed gas tanks are cheap and plentiful. Hospitals and clinics have thousands of these things. Every house has at least one, maybe two (fire extinguishers!) and every public place has usually multiples. As for shooting the canister vs shooting pellets, well, I guess that depends on the end goal of the weapon's design. After all, why build a tank when you can just send ten thousand boys to shoot at each other?
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 4 at 16:50


















4












$begingroup$

A resounding 'yes' at +/- 50 meters.



The compressed CO2 cylinders used in air guns have enough force to launch the cylinders at least 50 m.



They are used to propel rocket car models, rockets, and such. We had a stray (one that came out of the end of a rocket) ricochet back and forth in a classroom 20 m long. Left dents in several places in the walls. The trick would be to launch them in a tube just slightly larger than the gas cylinder. The firing pin would be exactly that - a pin that punctures a small hole in the nozzle end. We used a hammer and a nail. Put a hardened bullet-type nose on them, and maybe a trailing rigid tail or stability, and you would certainly have a weapon that would hurt.



These CO2 cylinders can be made quite inexpensively, although probably not cost competitive with bullets.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Same principle as the larger gas canisters. They can indeed be shot: youtube.com/watch?v=ShFkBCO552o
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 3 at 4:33


















2












$begingroup$

What you are talking about is really just rockets that use compressed air instead of a chemical reaction to develop pressure. Accuracy can be controlled using the same mechanisms such as tail fins. The duration of the propulsion with compressed air can be extended using reaction mass such as water, as mentioned in another response. Production costs will depend on many other factors that you control in your setting.



Compressed air is obviously inferior to chemical based propulsion since we (humans in general) know how to do both and we don't generally choose compressed air. I would venture a guess that the main problem is weight. Canisters that can handle high pressure gas are heavy. Adding reaction mass to extend the propulsion adds weight. If you add a payload such as explosives then you are adding more weight.



You should also consider whether your tanks contain compressed air (like a SCUBA tank) or contain gaseous mixtures in liquid form (like basically every other high pressure tank). The liquid will add even more weight but it also contains more potential energy than basic compressed air.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$













    Your Answer





    StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
    return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
    StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
    StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
    );
    );
    , "mathjax-editing");

    StackExchange.ready(function()
    var channelOptions =
    tags: "".split(" "),
    id: "579"
    ;
    initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

    StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
    // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
    if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
    StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
    createEditor();
    );

    else
    createEditor();

    );

    function createEditor()
    StackExchange.prepareEditor(
    heartbeatType: 'answer',
    autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
    convertImagesToLinks: false,
    noModals: true,
    showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
    reputationToPostImages: null,
    bindNavPrevention: true,
    postfix: "",
    imageUploader:
    brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
    contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
    allowUrls: true
    ,
    noCode: true, onDemand: true,
    discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
    ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
    );



    );













    draft saved

    draft discarded


















    StackExchange.ready(
    function ()
    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f140601%2fhigh-pressure-canisters-of-air-as-gun-less-projectiles%23new-answer', 'question_page');

    );

    Post as a guest















    Required, but never shown

























    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    20












    $begingroup$

    Here at Weapons R Us, we strive to offer the latest in amazingly inaccurate & astoundingly cumbersome weapons. In fact, we offer two models of precisely the weapons system you're looking for!



    enter image description here



    First, our Basic Can & Stick; this is our easy to understand, step by step how-to instructional video, shot on site at our manufacturing plant in Siberia.



    Second, our Deluxe Rocket Can; this is Myth Busters trying our our latest product!



    And finally, at WRS's Backcountry R & D facility; here we are testing our anti-aircraft launch mechanism.



    Basic model takes a bit of coaxing to activate, but is quite effective. Our deluxe model is, generally speaking, an instant success! Contrary to mythconception, this weapon system is relatively easy to mass produce and not terribly expensive. As you can imagine, even the cans are recyclable!






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Can't stop laughing at the first one...
      $endgroup$
      – Redwolf Programs
      Mar 3 at 1:48






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I admit it. I watched all three of those videos. Ha ha ha!
      $endgroup$
      – Cyn
      Mar 3 at 2:32






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Darwin Award Winner wannabees.
      $endgroup$
      – Justin Thyme the Second
      Mar 3 at 3:09















    20












    $begingroup$

    Here at Weapons R Us, we strive to offer the latest in amazingly inaccurate & astoundingly cumbersome weapons. In fact, we offer two models of precisely the weapons system you're looking for!



    enter image description here



    First, our Basic Can & Stick; this is our easy to understand, step by step how-to instructional video, shot on site at our manufacturing plant in Siberia.



    Second, our Deluxe Rocket Can; this is Myth Busters trying our our latest product!



    And finally, at WRS's Backcountry R & D facility; here we are testing our anti-aircraft launch mechanism.



    Basic model takes a bit of coaxing to activate, but is quite effective. Our deluxe model is, generally speaking, an instant success! Contrary to mythconception, this weapon system is relatively easy to mass produce and not terribly expensive. As you can imagine, even the cans are recyclable!






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Can't stop laughing at the first one...
      $endgroup$
      – Redwolf Programs
      Mar 3 at 1:48






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I admit it. I watched all three of those videos. Ha ha ha!
      $endgroup$
      – Cyn
      Mar 3 at 2:32






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Darwin Award Winner wannabees.
      $endgroup$
      – Justin Thyme the Second
      Mar 3 at 3:09













    20












    20








    20





    $begingroup$

    Here at Weapons R Us, we strive to offer the latest in amazingly inaccurate & astoundingly cumbersome weapons. In fact, we offer two models of precisely the weapons system you're looking for!



    enter image description here



    First, our Basic Can & Stick; this is our easy to understand, step by step how-to instructional video, shot on site at our manufacturing plant in Siberia.



    Second, our Deluxe Rocket Can; this is Myth Busters trying our our latest product!



    And finally, at WRS's Backcountry R & D facility; here we are testing our anti-aircraft launch mechanism.



    Basic model takes a bit of coaxing to activate, but is quite effective. Our deluxe model is, generally speaking, an instant success! Contrary to mythconception, this weapon system is relatively easy to mass produce and not terribly expensive. As you can imagine, even the cans are recyclable!






    share|improve this answer











    $endgroup$



    Here at Weapons R Us, we strive to offer the latest in amazingly inaccurate & astoundingly cumbersome weapons. In fact, we offer two models of precisely the weapons system you're looking for!



    enter image description here



    First, our Basic Can & Stick; this is our easy to understand, step by step how-to instructional video, shot on site at our manufacturing plant in Siberia.



    Second, our Deluxe Rocket Can; this is Myth Busters trying our our latest product!



    And finally, at WRS's Backcountry R & D facility; here we are testing our anti-aircraft launch mechanism.



    Basic model takes a bit of coaxing to activate, but is quite effective. Our deluxe model is, generally speaking, an instant success! Contrary to mythconception, this weapon system is relatively easy to mass produce and not terribly expensive. As you can imagine, even the cans are recyclable!







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Mar 3 at 1:51

























    answered Mar 3 at 1:43









    elemtilaselemtilas

    14.2k22962




    14.2k22962







    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Can't stop laughing at the first one...
      $endgroup$
      – Redwolf Programs
      Mar 3 at 1:48






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I admit it. I watched all three of those videos. Ha ha ha!
      $endgroup$
      – Cyn
      Mar 3 at 2:32






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Darwin Award Winner wannabees.
      $endgroup$
      – Justin Thyme the Second
      Mar 3 at 3:09












    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Can't stop laughing at the first one...
      $endgroup$
      – Redwolf Programs
      Mar 3 at 1:48






    • 3




      $begingroup$
      I admit it. I watched all three of those videos. Ha ha ha!
      $endgroup$
      – Cyn
      Mar 3 at 2:32






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Darwin Award Winner wannabees.
      $endgroup$
      – Justin Thyme the Second
      Mar 3 at 3:09







    4




    4




    $begingroup$
    Can't stop laughing at the first one...
    $endgroup$
    – Redwolf Programs
    Mar 3 at 1:48




    $begingroup$
    Can't stop laughing at the first one...
    $endgroup$
    – Redwolf Programs
    Mar 3 at 1:48




    3




    3




    $begingroup$
    I admit it. I watched all three of those videos. Ha ha ha!
    $endgroup$
    – Cyn
    Mar 3 at 2:32




    $begingroup$
    I admit it. I watched all three of those videos. Ha ha ha!
    $endgroup$
    – Cyn
    Mar 3 at 2:32




    4




    4




    $begingroup$
    Darwin Award Winner wannabees.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    Mar 3 at 3:09




    $begingroup$
    Darwin Award Winner wannabees.
    $endgroup$
    – Justin Thyme the Second
    Mar 3 at 3:09











    8












    $begingroup$

    No, this is not practical



    You mention in your question the concern that "The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous", which implies you're concerned about this being a practical or mass produced weapon. From that perspective, no, this doesn't work, for the simple reason that you are firing your pressure vessel at the enemy, instead of using the pressure vessel to fire a projectile at them. The latter approach has historically been used extensively, and there is no justification for not taking this approach with pneumatic weapons.



    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife


    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holman_Projector (originally powered by compressed air)

    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

    In all of the video instances noted by @elemtilas, non-combatants are using extant pressure vessels in a very wasteful manner. With any of those devices, it would be more practical to use the large canister to fire larger number of lightweight projectiles, i.e. flechettes, and then still have the canister to use when you're done!






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Keep in mind: the typical Youtube video largely consists of ill informed boys saying things like "oo, I wonder if this will explode? --- let's bang on it and find out!!" The question doesn't actually require the weapon to be "practical", which is a different consideration entirely. As a rejoinder: one could simply strap a high explosive charge and shrapnel packets onto the CO2 tank...oh, wait. We already do that ... they're called missiles! I'd argue it's far more practical to produce a simple pressurised canister than it is fiddling around with propellents, at the prescribed ranges.
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 18:00






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Girandoni air rifle, circa 1779, used on the Lewis and Clark Expedition, +1
      $endgroup$
      – Mazura
      Mar 3 at 18:35






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @elimtilas I didn’t mean any disrespect to your answer, but by asking whether “the cost/energy” is prohibitive, production is implied, and that pulls in practicality. Yes, it’s simpler to produce a pressurized canister, but there’s no reason to then launch the canister itself: use it to launch the projectile of your choice. As the Holman projector shows, air pressure based grenade launchers are a viable weapon.
      $endgroup$
      – Daniel B
      Mar 3 at 18:36










    • $begingroup$
      Oh, I didn't take it as disrespect! My point was simply simply that the OP asks if it will work. Cost/energy and so forth seem to be ruminations on why it won't. To be honest, compressed gas tanks are cheap and plentiful. Hospitals and clinics have thousands of these things. Every house has at least one, maybe two (fire extinguishers!) and every public place has usually multiples. As for shooting the canister vs shooting pellets, well, I guess that depends on the end goal of the weapon's design. After all, why build a tank when you can just send ten thousand boys to shoot at each other?
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 4 at 16:50















    8












    $begingroup$

    No, this is not practical



    You mention in your question the concern that "The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous", which implies you're concerned about this being a practical or mass produced weapon. From that perspective, no, this doesn't work, for the simple reason that you are firing your pressure vessel at the enemy, instead of using the pressure vessel to fire a projectile at them. The latter approach has historically been used extensively, and there is no justification for not taking this approach with pneumatic weapons.



    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife


    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holman_Projector (originally powered by compressed air)

    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

    In all of the video instances noted by @elemtilas, non-combatants are using extant pressure vessels in a very wasteful manner. With any of those devices, it would be more practical to use the large canister to fire larger number of lightweight projectiles, i.e. flechettes, and then still have the canister to use when you're done!






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Keep in mind: the typical Youtube video largely consists of ill informed boys saying things like "oo, I wonder if this will explode? --- let's bang on it and find out!!" The question doesn't actually require the weapon to be "practical", which is a different consideration entirely. As a rejoinder: one could simply strap a high explosive charge and shrapnel packets onto the CO2 tank...oh, wait. We already do that ... they're called missiles! I'd argue it's far more practical to produce a simple pressurised canister than it is fiddling around with propellents, at the prescribed ranges.
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 18:00






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Girandoni air rifle, circa 1779, used on the Lewis and Clark Expedition, +1
      $endgroup$
      – Mazura
      Mar 3 at 18:35






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @elimtilas I didn’t mean any disrespect to your answer, but by asking whether “the cost/energy” is prohibitive, production is implied, and that pulls in practicality. Yes, it’s simpler to produce a pressurized canister, but there’s no reason to then launch the canister itself: use it to launch the projectile of your choice. As the Holman projector shows, air pressure based grenade launchers are a viable weapon.
      $endgroup$
      – Daniel B
      Mar 3 at 18:36










    • $begingroup$
      Oh, I didn't take it as disrespect! My point was simply simply that the OP asks if it will work. Cost/energy and so forth seem to be ruminations on why it won't. To be honest, compressed gas tanks are cheap and plentiful. Hospitals and clinics have thousands of these things. Every house has at least one, maybe two (fire extinguishers!) and every public place has usually multiples. As for shooting the canister vs shooting pellets, well, I guess that depends on the end goal of the weapon's design. After all, why build a tank when you can just send ten thousand boys to shoot at each other?
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 4 at 16:50













    8












    8








    8





    $begingroup$

    No, this is not practical



    You mention in your question the concern that "The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous", which implies you're concerned about this being a practical or mass produced weapon. From that perspective, no, this doesn't work, for the simple reason that you are firing your pressure vessel at the enemy, instead of using the pressure vessel to fire a projectile at them. The latter approach has historically been used extensively, and there is no justification for not taking this approach with pneumatic weapons.



    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife


    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holman_Projector (originally powered by compressed air)

    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

    In all of the video instances noted by @elemtilas, non-combatants are using extant pressure vessels in a very wasteful manner. With any of those devices, it would be more practical to use the large canister to fire larger number of lightweight projectiles, i.e. flechettes, and then still have the canister to use when you're done!






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    No, this is not practical



    You mention in your question the concern that "The cost/energy of producing them is ridiculous", which implies you're concerned about this being a practical or mass produced weapon. From that perspective, no, this doesn't work, for the simple reason that you are firing your pressure vessel at the enemy, instead of using the pressure vessel to fire a projectile at them. The latter approach has historically been used extensively, and there is no justification for not taking this approach with pneumatic weapons.



    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_knife


    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holman_Projector (originally powered by compressed air)

    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_air_rifle

    In all of the video instances noted by @elemtilas, non-combatants are using extant pressure vessels in a very wasteful manner. With any of those devices, it would be more practical to use the large canister to fire larger number of lightweight projectiles, i.e. flechettes, and then still have the canister to use when you're done!







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Mar 3 at 6:17









    Daniel BDaniel B

    4,9001827




    4,9001827











    • $begingroup$
      Keep in mind: the typical Youtube video largely consists of ill informed boys saying things like "oo, I wonder if this will explode? --- let's bang on it and find out!!" The question doesn't actually require the weapon to be "practical", which is a different consideration entirely. As a rejoinder: one could simply strap a high explosive charge and shrapnel packets onto the CO2 tank...oh, wait. We already do that ... they're called missiles! I'd argue it's far more practical to produce a simple pressurised canister than it is fiddling around with propellents, at the prescribed ranges.
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 18:00






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Girandoni air rifle, circa 1779, used on the Lewis and Clark Expedition, +1
      $endgroup$
      – Mazura
      Mar 3 at 18:35






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @elimtilas I didn’t mean any disrespect to your answer, but by asking whether “the cost/energy” is prohibitive, production is implied, and that pulls in practicality. Yes, it’s simpler to produce a pressurized canister, but there’s no reason to then launch the canister itself: use it to launch the projectile of your choice. As the Holman projector shows, air pressure based grenade launchers are a viable weapon.
      $endgroup$
      – Daniel B
      Mar 3 at 18:36










    • $begingroup$
      Oh, I didn't take it as disrespect! My point was simply simply that the OP asks if it will work. Cost/energy and so forth seem to be ruminations on why it won't. To be honest, compressed gas tanks are cheap and plentiful. Hospitals and clinics have thousands of these things. Every house has at least one, maybe two (fire extinguishers!) and every public place has usually multiples. As for shooting the canister vs shooting pellets, well, I guess that depends on the end goal of the weapon's design. After all, why build a tank when you can just send ten thousand boys to shoot at each other?
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 4 at 16:50
















    • $begingroup$
      Keep in mind: the typical Youtube video largely consists of ill informed boys saying things like "oo, I wonder if this will explode? --- let's bang on it and find out!!" The question doesn't actually require the weapon to be "practical", which is a different consideration entirely. As a rejoinder: one could simply strap a high explosive charge and shrapnel packets onto the CO2 tank...oh, wait. We already do that ... they're called missiles! I'd argue it's far more practical to produce a simple pressurised canister than it is fiddling around with propellents, at the prescribed ranges.
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 18:00






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Girandoni air rifle, circa 1779, used on the Lewis and Clark Expedition, +1
      $endgroup$
      – Mazura
      Mar 3 at 18:35






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      @elimtilas I didn’t mean any disrespect to your answer, but by asking whether “the cost/energy” is prohibitive, production is implied, and that pulls in practicality. Yes, it’s simpler to produce a pressurized canister, but there’s no reason to then launch the canister itself: use it to launch the projectile of your choice. As the Holman projector shows, air pressure based grenade launchers are a viable weapon.
      $endgroup$
      – Daniel B
      Mar 3 at 18:36










    • $begingroup$
      Oh, I didn't take it as disrespect! My point was simply simply that the OP asks if it will work. Cost/energy and so forth seem to be ruminations on why it won't. To be honest, compressed gas tanks are cheap and plentiful. Hospitals and clinics have thousands of these things. Every house has at least one, maybe two (fire extinguishers!) and every public place has usually multiples. As for shooting the canister vs shooting pellets, well, I guess that depends on the end goal of the weapon's design. After all, why build a tank when you can just send ten thousand boys to shoot at each other?
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 4 at 16:50















    $begingroup$
    Keep in mind: the typical Youtube video largely consists of ill informed boys saying things like "oo, I wonder if this will explode? --- let's bang on it and find out!!" The question doesn't actually require the weapon to be "practical", which is a different consideration entirely. As a rejoinder: one could simply strap a high explosive charge and shrapnel packets onto the CO2 tank...oh, wait. We already do that ... they're called missiles! I'd argue it's far more practical to produce a simple pressurised canister than it is fiddling around with propellents, at the prescribed ranges.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 3 at 18:00




    $begingroup$
    Keep in mind: the typical Youtube video largely consists of ill informed boys saying things like "oo, I wonder if this will explode? --- let's bang on it and find out!!" The question doesn't actually require the weapon to be "practical", which is a different consideration entirely. As a rejoinder: one could simply strap a high explosive charge and shrapnel packets onto the CO2 tank...oh, wait. We already do that ... they're called missiles! I'd argue it's far more practical to produce a simple pressurised canister than it is fiddling around with propellents, at the prescribed ranges.
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 3 at 18:00




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    Girandoni air rifle, circa 1779, used on the Lewis and Clark Expedition, +1
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Mar 3 at 18:35




    $begingroup$
    Girandoni air rifle, circa 1779, used on the Lewis and Clark Expedition, +1
    $endgroup$
    – Mazura
    Mar 3 at 18:35




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    @elimtilas I didn’t mean any disrespect to your answer, but by asking whether “the cost/energy” is prohibitive, production is implied, and that pulls in practicality. Yes, it’s simpler to produce a pressurized canister, but there’s no reason to then launch the canister itself: use it to launch the projectile of your choice. As the Holman projector shows, air pressure based grenade launchers are a viable weapon.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel B
    Mar 3 at 18:36




    $begingroup$
    @elimtilas I didn’t mean any disrespect to your answer, but by asking whether “the cost/energy” is prohibitive, production is implied, and that pulls in practicality. Yes, it’s simpler to produce a pressurized canister, but there’s no reason to then launch the canister itself: use it to launch the projectile of your choice. As the Holman projector shows, air pressure based grenade launchers are a viable weapon.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel B
    Mar 3 at 18:36












    $begingroup$
    Oh, I didn't take it as disrespect! My point was simply simply that the OP asks if it will work. Cost/energy and so forth seem to be ruminations on why it won't. To be honest, compressed gas tanks are cheap and plentiful. Hospitals and clinics have thousands of these things. Every house has at least one, maybe two (fire extinguishers!) and every public place has usually multiples. As for shooting the canister vs shooting pellets, well, I guess that depends on the end goal of the weapon's design. After all, why build a tank when you can just send ten thousand boys to shoot at each other?
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 4 at 16:50




    $begingroup$
    Oh, I didn't take it as disrespect! My point was simply simply that the OP asks if it will work. Cost/energy and so forth seem to be ruminations on why it won't. To be honest, compressed gas tanks are cheap and plentiful. Hospitals and clinics have thousands of these things. Every house has at least one, maybe two (fire extinguishers!) and every public place has usually multiples. As for shooting the canister vs shooting pellets, well, I guess that depends on the end goal of the weapon's design. After all, why build a tank when you can just send ten thousand boys to shoot at each other?
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 4 at 16:50











    4












    $begingroup$

    A resounding 'yes' at +/- 50 meters.



    The compressed CO2 cylinders used in air guns have enough force to launch the cylinders at least 50 m.



    They are used to propel rocket car models, rockets, and such. We had a stray (one that came out of the end of a rocket) ricochet back and forth in a classroom 20 m long. Left dents in several places in the walls. The trick would be to launch them in a tube just slightly larger than the gas cylinder. The firing pin would be exactly that - a pin that punctures a small hole in the nozzle end. We used a hammer and a nail. Put a hardened bullet-type nose on them, and maybe a trailing rigid tail or stability, and you would certainly have a weapon that would hurt.



    These CO2 cylinders can be made quite inexpensively, although probably not cost competitive with bullets.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Same principle as the larger gas canisters. They can indeed be shot: youtube.com/watch?v=ShFkBCO552o
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 4:33















    4












    $begingroup$

    A resounding 'yes' at +/- 50 meters.



    The compressed CO2 cylinders used in air guns have enough force to launch the cylinders at least 50 m.



    They are used to propel rocket car models, rockets, and such. We had a stray (one that came out of the end of a rocket) ricochet back and forth in a classroom 20 m long. Left dents in several places in the walls. The trick would be to launch them in a tube just slightly larger than the gas cylinder. The firing pin would be exactly that - a pin that punctures a small hole in the nozzle end. We used a hammer and a nail. Put a hardened bullet-type nose on them, and maybe a trailing rigid tail or stability, and you would certainly have a weapon that would hurt.



    These CO2 cylinders can be made quite inexpensively, although probably not cost competitive with bullets.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      Same principle as the larger gas canisters. They can indeed be shot: youtube.com/watch?v=ShFkBCO552o
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 4:33













    4












    4








    4





    $begingroup$

    A resounding 'yes' at +/- 50 meters.



    The compressed CO2 cylinders used in air guns have enough force to launch the cylinders at least 50 m.



    They are used to propel rocket car models, rockets, and such. We had a stray (one that came out of the end of a rocket) ricochet back and forth in a classroom 20 m long. Left dents in several places in the walls. The trick would be to launch them in a tube just slightly larger than the gas cylinder. The firing pin would be exactly that - a pin that punctures a small hole in the nozzle end. We used a hammer and a nail. Put a hardened bullet-type nose on them, and maybe a trailing rigid tail or stability, and you would certainly have a weapon that would hurt.



    These CO2 cylinders can be made quite inexpensively, although probably not cost competitive with bullets.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    A resounding 'yes' at +/- 50 meters.



    The compressed CO2 cylinders used in air guns have enough force to launch the cylinders at least 50 m.



    They are used to propel rocket car models, rockets, and such. We had a stray (one that came out of the end of a rocket) ricochet back and forth in a classroom 20 m long. Left dents in several places in the walls. The trick would be to launch them in a tube just slightly larger than the gas cylinder. The firing pin would be exactly that - a pin that punctures a small hole in the nozzle end. We used a hammer and a nail. Put a hardened bullet-type nose on them, and maybe a trailing rigid tail or stability, and you would certainly have a weapon that would hurt.



    These CO2 cylinders can be made quite inexpensively, although probably not cost competitive with bullets.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Mar 3 at 3:20









    Justin Thyme the SecondJustin Thyme the Second

    1




    1











    • $begingroup$
      Same principle as the larger gas canisters. They can indeed be shot: youtube.com/watch?v=ShFkBCO552o
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 4:33
















    • $begingroup$
      Same principle as the larger gas canisters. They can indeed be shot: youtube.com/watch?v=ShFkBCO552o
      $endgroup$
      – elemtilas
      Mar 3 at 4:33















    $begingroup$
    Same principle as the larger gas canisters. They can indeed be shot: youtube.com/watch?v=ShFkBCO552o
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 3 at 4:33




    $begingroup$
    Same principle as the larger gas canisters. They can indeed be shot: youtube.com/watch?v=ShFkBCO552o
    $endgroup$
    – elemtilas
    Mar 3 at 4:33











    2












    $begingroup$

    What you are talking about is really just rockets that use compressed air instead of a chemical reaction to develop pressure. Accuracy can be controlled using the same mechanisms such as tail fins. The duration of the propulsion with compressed air can be extended using reaction mass such as water, as mentioned in another response. Production costs will depend on many other factors that you control in your setting.



    Compressed air is obviously inferior to chemical based propulsion since we (humans in general) know how to do both and we don't generally choose compressed air. I would venture a guess that the main problem is weight. Canisters that can handle high pressure gas are heavy. Adding reaction mass to extend the propulsion adds weight. If you add a payload such as explosives then you are adding more weight.



    You should also consider whether your tanks contain compressed air (like a SCUBA tank) or contain gaseous mixtures in liquid form (like basically every other high pressure tank). The liquid will add even more weight but it also contains more potential energy than basic compressed air.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      2












      $begingroup$

      What you are talking about is really just rockets that use compressed air instead of a chemical reaction to develop pressure. Accuracy can be controlled using the same mechanisms such as tail fins. The duration of the propulsion with compressed air can be extended using reaction mass such as water, as mentioned in another response. Production costs will depend on many other factors that you control in your setting.



      Compressed air is obviously inferior to chemical based propulsion since we (humans in general) know how to do both and we don't generally choose compressed air. I would venture a guess that the main problem is weight. Canisters that can handle high pressure gas are heavy. Adding reaction mass to extend the propulsion adds weight. If you add a payload such as explosives then you are adding more weight.



      You should also consider whether your tanks contain compressed air (like a SCUBA tank) or contain gaseous mixtures in liquid form (like basically every other high pressure tank). The liquid will add even more weight but it also contains more potential energy than basic compressed air.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        2












        2








        2





        $begingroup$

        What you are talking about is really just rockets that use compressed air instead of a chemical reaction to develop pressure. Accuracy can be controlled using the same mechanisms such as tail fins. The duration of the propulsion with compressed air can be extended using reaction mass such as water, as mentioned in another response. Production costs will depend on many other factors that you control in your setting.



        Compressed air is obviously inferior to chemical based propulsion since we (humans in general) know how to do both and we don't generally choose compressed air. I would venture a guess that the main problem is weight. Canisters that can handle high pressure gas are heavy. Adding reaction mass to extend the propulsion adds weight. If you add a payload such as explosives then you are adding more weight.



        You should also consider whether your tanks contain compressed air (like a SCUBA tank) or contain gaseous mixtures in liquid form (like basically every other high pressure tank). The liquid will add even more weight but it also contains more potential energy than basic compressed air.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        What you are talking about is really just rockets that use compressed air instead of a chemical reaction to develop pressure. Accuracy can be controlled using the same mechanisms such as tail fins. The duration of the propulsion with compressed air can be extended using reaction mass such as water, as mentioned in another response. Production costs will depend on many other factors that you control in your setting.



        Compressed air is obviously inferior to chemical based propulsion since we (humans in general) know how to do both and we don't generally choose compressed air. I would venture a guess that the main problem is weight. Canisters that can handle high pressure gas are heavy. Adding reaction mass to extend the propulsion adds weight. If you add a payload such as explosives then you are adding more weight.



        You should also consider whether your tanks contain compressed air (like a SCUBA tank) or contain gaseous mixtures in liquid form (like basically every other high pressure tank). The liquid will add even more weight but it also contains more potential energy than basic compressed air.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered Mar 4 at 11:26









        krbkrb

        2593




        2593



























            draft saved

            draft discarded
















































            Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!


            • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

            But avoid


            • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

            • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

            Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


            To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




            draft saved


            draft discarded














            StackExchange.ready(
            function ()
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f140601%2fhigh-pressure-canisters-of-air-as-gun-less-projectiles%23new-answer', 'question_page');

            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown





















































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown

































            Required, but never shown














            Required, but never shown












            Required, but never shown







            Required, but never shown






            Popular posts from this blog

            How to check contact read email or not when send email to Individual?

            Displaying single band from multi-band raster using QGIS

            How many registers does an x86_64 CPU actually have?