Why is there ghosting when using flash on tripod with image stabilization?

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22















I am puzzled by the ghosting in this shot. It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).



The camera was on a tripod, and I was using a remote shutter release, so can't see how it could be caused by movement as most posts on the subject suggest. Un



It was taken on a Canon 7D and Sigma 105mm Macro lens with Image stabilization switched on. Flash was in ETTL mode.



ghosting



I am relatively new to photography, so still learning, so would be interested in what light (scuse the pun) you experts out there can throw on the matter.










share|improve this question



















  • 11





    I don't know those models enough to provide an answer, but test again with stabilisation off - sometimes on a tripod, it 'fights' & comes out worse than with it off.

    – Tetsujin
    Feb 10 at 17:30











  • Was the flash on or off camera? What specific flash model? What Tv with flash? What Tv without flash? Av and ISO for each shot? What exposure mode was used for the flash and non-flash shots?

    – Michael C
    Feb 10 at 17:36












  • Flash was off camera using a wireless link - Yongnuo 600 ex RTII unfortunatly I don't have all the other settings

    – Duncan_w
    Feb 10 at 17:42







  • 2





    Can we have the whole EXIF data (add to your question)? @Tetsujin: I have hard time coming up with a scenario where the IS produces two sharp images and not a blurred one (exposure) and a sharp on (flash).

    – xenoid
    Feb 10 at 17:54






  • 1





    Just my 2 cents: I already came to the problem that using IS/OS/VR/OIS on tripod causing ghosting. also the manufacturer recoment to turn it of when using a tripod.

    – Horitsu
    Feb 11 at 10:24















22















I am puzzled by the ghosting in this shot. It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).



The camera was on a tripod, and I was using a remote shutter release, so can't see how it could be caused by movement as most posts on the subject suggest. Un



It was taken on a Canon 7D and Sigma 105mm Macro lens with Image stabilization switched on. Flash was in ETTL mode.



ghosting



I am relatively new to photography, so still learning, so would be interested in what light (scuse the pun) you experts out there can throw on the matter.










share|improve this question



















  • 11





    I don't know those models enough to provide an answer, but test again with stabilisation off - sometimes on a tripod, it 'fights' & comes out worse than with it off.

    – Tetsujin
    Feb 10 at 17:30











  • Was the flash on or off camera? What specific flash model? What Tv with flash? What Tv without flash? Av and ISO for each shot? What exposure mode was used for the flash and non-flash shots?

    – Michael C
    Feb 10 at 17:36












  • Flash was off camera using a wireless link - Yongnuo 600 ex RTII unfortunatly I don't have all the other settings

    – Duncan_w
    Feb 10 at 17:42







  • 2





    Can we have the whole EXIF data (add to your question)? @Tetsujin: I have hard time coming up with a scenario where the IS produces two sharp images and not a blurred one (exposure) and a sharp on (flash).

    – xenoid
    Feb 10 at 17:54






  • 1





    Just my 2 cents: I already came to the problem that using IS/OS/VR/OIS on tripod causing ghosting. also the manufacturer recoment to turn it of when using a tripod.

    – Horitsu
    Feb 11 at 10:24













22












22








22








I am puzzled by the ghosting in this shot. It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).



The camera was on a tripod, and I was using a remote shutter release, so can't see how it could be caused by movement as most posts on the subject suggest. Un



It was taken on a Canon 7D and Sigma 105mm Macro lens with Image stabilization switched on. Flash was in ETTL mode.



ghosting



I am relatively new to photography, so still learning, so would be interested in what light (scuse the pun) you experts out there can throw on the matter.










share|improve this question
















I am puzzled by the ghosting in this shot. It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).



The camera was on a tripod, and I was using a remote shutter release, so can't see how it could be caused by movement as most posts on the subject suggest. Un



It was taken on a Canon 7D and Sigma 105mm Macro lens with Image stabilization switched on. Flash was in ETTL mode.



ghosting



I am relatively new to photography, so still learning, so would be interested in what light (scuse the pun) you experts out there can throw on the matter.







flash tripod image-stabilization ghosting






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Feb 10 at 20:15









xiota

11k31862




11k31862










asked Feb 10 at 17:27









Duncan_wDuncan_w

441110




441110







  • 11





    I don't know those models enough to provide an answer, but test again with stabilisation off - sometimes on a tripod, it 'fights' & comes out worse than with it off.

    – Tetsujin
    Feb 10 at 17:30











  • Was the flash on or off camera? What specific flash model? What Tv with flash? What Tv without flash? Av and ISO for each shot? What exposure mode was used for the flash and non-flash shots?

    – Michael C
    Feb 10 at 17:36












  • Flash was off camera using a wireless link - Yongnuo 600 ex RTII unfortunatly I don't have all the other settings

    – Duncan_w
    Feb 10 at 17:42







  • 2





    Can we have the whole EXIF data (add to your question)? @Tetsujin: I have hard time coming up with a scenario where the IS produces two sharp images and not a blurred one (exposure) and a sharp on (flash).

    – xenoid
    Feb 10 at 17:54






  • 1





    Just my 2 cents: I already came to the problem that using IS/OS/VR/OIS on tripod causing ghosting. also the manufacturer recoment to turn it of when using a tripod.

    – Horitsu
    Feb 11 at 10:24












  • 11





    I don't know those models enough to provide an answer, but test again with stabilisation off - sometimes on a tripod, it 'fights' & comes out worse than with it off.

    – Tetsujin
    Feb 10 at 17:30











  • Was the flash on or off camera? What specific flash model? What Tv with flash? What Tv without flash? Av and ISO for each shot? What exposure mode was used for the flash and non-flash shots?

    – Michael C
    Feb 10 at 17:36












  • Flash was off camera using a wireless link - Yongnuo 600 ex RTII unfortunatly I don't have all the other settings

    – Duncan_w
    Feb 10 at 17:42







  • 2





    Can we have the whole EXIF data (add to your question)? @Tetsujin: I have hard time coming up with a scenario where the IS produces two sharp images and not a blurred one (exposure) and a sharp on (flash).

    – xenoid
    Feb 10 at 17:54






  • 1





    Just my 2 cents: I already came to the problem that using IS/OS/VR/OIS on tripod causing ghosting. also the manufacturer recoment to turn it of when using a tripod.

    – Horitsu
    Feb 11 at 10:24







11




11





I don't know those models enough to provide an answer, but test again with stabilisation off - sometimes on a tripod, it 'fights' & comes out worse than with it off.

– Tetsujin
Feb 10 at 17:30





I don't know those models enough to provide an answer, but test again with stabilisation off - sometimes on a tripod, it 'fights' & comes out worse than with it off.

– Tetsujin
Feb 10 at 17:30













Was the flash on or off camera? What specific flash model? What Tv with flash? What Tv without flash? Av and ISO for each shot? What exposure mode was used for the flash and non-flash shots?

– Michael C
Feb 10 at 17:36






Was the flash on or off camera? What specific flash model? What Tv with flash? What Tv without flash? Av and ISO for each shot? What exposure mode was used for the flash and non-flash shots?

– Michael C
Feb 10 at 17:36














Flash was off camera using a wireless link - Yongnuo 600 ex RTII unfortunatly I don't have all the other settings

– Duncan_w
Feb 10 at 17:42






Flash was off camera using a wireless link - Yongnuo 600 ex RTII unfortunatly I don't have all the other settings

– Duncan_w
Feb 10 at 17:42





2




2





Can we have the whole EXIF data (add to your question)? @Tetsujin: I have hard time coming up with a scenario where the IS produces two sharp images and not a blurred one (exposure) and a sharp on (flash).

– xenoid
Feb 10 at 17:54





Can we have the whole EXIF data (add to your question)? @Tetsujin: I have hard time coming up with a scenario where the IS produces two sharp images and not a blurred one (exposure) and a sharp on (flash).

– xenoid
Feb 10 at 17:54




1




1





Just my 2 cents: I already came to the problem that using IS/OS/VR/OIS on tripod causing ghosting. also the manufacturer recoment to turn it of when using a tripod.

– Horitsu
Feb 11 at 10:24





Just my 2 cents: I already came to the problem that using IS/OS/VR/OIS on tripod causing ghosting. also the manufacturer recoment to turn it of when using a tripod.

– Horitsu
Feb 11 at 10:24










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















23














enter image description hereLooks like it's related to image stabilization as Tetsujin suggested. Managed to replicate the issue. Switched off the IS and the Ghosting went away. It is a new IS lens (Latest Sigma 105mm macro IS). Guess I just need to remember to switch it off in these circumstances.



For those who are interested, here is the final shot






share|improve this answer




















  • 1





    If you feel your answer answers your question, you can mark it as the answer.

    – xiota
    Feb 12 at 8:50











  • The Sigma 105mm macro does this. I'm not sure if it's at the start or the end of the exposure, but releasing the shutter triggers the IS to sort of 'reset' (I guess to maximize its range during exposure) If you're looking through the viewfinder you can see the image physically shift as you take the shot. I've never tested, and you didn't say what flash settings you were using, but if it was front or rear curtain sync you should be able to figure out if this is affecting the start or end of the exposure. I would expect one of front/rear curtain sync to produce a better image than the other.

    – J...
    Feb 12 at 19:42











  • In any case, turn it off on the tripod - especially with flash. You just don't need it. Save your batteries.

    – J...
    Feb 12 at 19:44


















22














Sigma's product manual says:




Please do not use Optical Stabilization in the following situations.



  • When the lens is mounted on a tripod

  • Bulb (long time exposure)



As I understand it, the problem is as follows. Stabilization works by having some lens elements move around to correct for the the movement of the whole assembly. As Isaac Newton teaches us, every action has an equal and opposite reaction so, when the stabilizer moves lens elements to the left, that nudges the whole lens slightly to the right. If you're shooting hand-held, this isn't a problem, because that little nudge is dwarfed by your hands shaking around. However, when the lens is mounted on a tripod, that nudge is the biggest movement the lens feels. So it tries to correct for it by moving the stabilization elements in the opposite direction. That creates another nudge which the lens also tries to correct. So you end up in a feedback loop where the lens is shifting itself around the whole time, giving a blurry image.



Some newer stabilization systems switch themselves off if they detect that there's so little movement that the lens is likely on a tripod. Other systems, such as the one on your lens, require the user to switch off stabilization when a tripod is being used.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    Almost all lenses with IS made since about the year 2000 have auto-sensing modes to prevent feedback loops when used on a tripod. Only a handful of early stabilized lenses actually demonstrated this phenomenon. But once an idea about a "new" technology gets out there, it's hard to ever change the perception, even though most later examples do not demonstrated the issue.

    – Michael C
    Feb 12 at 4:44







  • 2





    @MichaelC Well, I quoted and linked to Sigma's manual for this lens. That manual clearly states that stabilization shouldn't be used on a tripod. The OP also found that switching off stabilization fixed the problem. Are you saying that there's some other reason for this?

    – David Richerby
    Feb 12 at 10:41












  • I'm saying if such a recent lens demonstrates feedback when tripod mounted, Sigma clearly dropped the ball on this.

    – Michael C
    Feb 12 at 20:33


















3















It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).




Not necessarily. The difference could have been something else only tangentially related to using the flash. When comparing the shot taken with the flash and the shot taken without flash:



  • What exposure mode were you using in each shot?

  • Did any of the exposure parameters (ISO, Tv, Av) change?

  • Was the camera set to a specific ISO setting or was 'Auto ISO' enabled?

  • If using [Av] exposure mode, what setting is selected for [C.Fn I:Exposure → Flash sync. speed in Av mode]?

It's entirely possible that a slower shutter time was forced by the use of the flash, depending on your camera's settings at the time. It's also possible that your tripod is not as stable as you might want (or the surface it is sitting on is not as stable as you might want).



Some flashes also produce pulses of hot air directly in front of the flash head. The sudden change in air pressure directly in front of the flash head can cause the same kind of force acting on the flash as a small gust of wind would.






share|improve this answer
































    -1














    You didn't bother to specify whether you are using an external flash or not, a camera-mounted flash or remote, and which brand of flash.



    You mention "Flash was on ETTL". That counts towards an external flash. Which is too bad since I have a better explanation for an internal flash (voltage drop) but it can be stretched to match external.



    Image stabilisation is done by the lens. For that it needs information from the camera and current from the camera. The current is used for suspending and moving the image stabilisation elements in a magnetic field.



    Now what happens is that at the moment of firing the flash, something significantly changes for the IS. The communication gets messed up due to the electromagnetic pulse of a rapid discharge or the available voltage/current for working the image stabilisation drops because the flash recharge circuitry starts drawing large current. Additional current is drawn by the lens aperture closing down to its nominal value: that may also cause some mechanical unrest so you might try whether it makes a difference to shoot at maximum aperture.



    Also check the shutter speed taken: usually it should just be the flash's and camera's sync speed.



    So things to try: maximum aperture (reduces aperture action but also flash power, so it's not a completely isolated test), fresh batteries or use the mains power supply, double-check the lens contacts to be clean (when in doubt, cleaning them with a bit of alcohol on a cotton swab might be an idea) and the lens to be mounted and locked well. Try using external instead of internal flash and vice versa or a different external flash.



    You have found a workaround but it would be good to figure out what the exact problem is so that you can recognize it when it arises in somewhat different circumstances.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 1





      In-lens image stabilization doesn't require any information from the camera. Gyroscopes within the lens are used to detect camera movement; aperture and focal length might affect the stabilization required but the lens already knows those.

      – David Richerby
      Feb 11 at 15:12











    • That depend on the implementation of lens-based IS. Some systems do require camera based communication. Even if no "communication" is needed, electrical current certainly is.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 4:48










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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    23














    enter image description hereLooks like it's related to image stabilization as Tetsujin suggested. Managed to replicate the issue. Switched off the IS and the Ghosting went away. It is a new IS lens (Latest Sigma 105mm macro IS). Guess I just need to remember to switch it off in these circumstances.



    For those who are interested, here is the final shot






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      If you feel your answer answers your question, you can mark it as the answer.

      – xiota
      Feb 12 at 8:50











    • The Sigma 105mm macro does this. I'm not sure if it's at the start or the end of the exposure, but releasing the shutter triggers the IS to sort of 'reset' (I guess to maximize its range during exposure) If you're looking through the viewfinder you can see the image physically shift as you take the shot. I've never tested, and you didn't say what flash settings you were using, but if it was front or rear curtain sync you should be able to figure out if this is affecting the start or end of the exposure. I would expect one of front/rear curtain sync to produce a better image than the other.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:42











    • In any case, turn it off on the tripod - especially with flash. You just don't need it. Save your batteries.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:44















    23














    enter image description hereLooks like it's related to image stabilization as Tetsujin suggested. Managed to replicate the issue. Switched off the IS and the Ghosting went away. It is a new IS lens (Latest Sigma 105mm macro IS). Guess I just need to remember to switch it off in these circumstances.



    For those who are interested, here is the final shot






    share|improve this answer




















    • 1





      If you feel your answer answers your question, you can mark it as the answer.

      – xiota
      Feb 12 at 8:50











    • The Sigma 105mm macro does this. I'm not sure if it's at the start or the end of the exposure, but releasing the shutter triggers the IS to sort of 'reset' (I guess to maximize its range during exposure) If you're looking through the viewfinder you can see the image physically shift as you take the shot. I've never tested, and you didn't say what flash settings you were using, but if it was front or rear curtain sync you should be able to figure out if this is affecting the start or end of the exposure. I would expect one of front/rear curtain sync to produce a better image than the other.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:42











    • In any case, turn it off on the tripod - especially with flash. You just don't need it. Save your batteries.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:44













    23












    23








    23







    enter image description hereLooks like it's related to image stabilization as Tetsujin suggested. Managed to replicate the issue. Switched off the IS and the Ghosting went away. It is a new IS lens (Latest Sigma 105mm macro IS). Guess I just need to remember to switch it off in these circumstances.



    For those who are interested, here is the final shot






    share|improve this answer















    enter image description hereLooks like it's related to image stabilization as Tetsujin suggested. Managed to replicate the issue. Switched off the IS and the Ghosting went away. It is a new IS lens (Latest Sigma 105mm macro IS). Guess I just need to remember to switch it off in these circumstances.



    For those who are interested, here is the final shot







    share|improve this answer














    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer








    edited Feb 10 at 20:09









    xiota

    11k31862




    11k31862










    answered Feb 10 at 18:36









    Duncan_wDuncan_w

    441110




    441110







    • 1





      If you feel your answer answers your question, you can mark it as the answer.

      – xiota
      Feb 12 at 8:50











    • The Sigma 105mm macro does this. I'm not sure if it's at the start or the end of the exposure, but releasing the shutter triggers the IS to sort of 'reset' (I guess to maximize its range during exposure) If you're looking through the viewfinder you can see the image physically shift as you take the shot. I've never tested, and you didn't say what flash settings you were using, but if it was front or rear curtain sync you should be able to figure out if this is affecting the start or end of the exposure. I would expect one of front/rear curtain sync to produce a better image than the other.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:42











    • In any case, turn it off on the tripod - especially with flash. You just don't need it. Save your batteries.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:44












    • 1





      If you feel your answer answers your question, you can mark it as the answer.

      – xiota
      Feb 12 at 8:50











    • The Sigma 105mm macro does this. I'm not sure if it's at the start or the end of the exposure, but releasing the shutter triggers the IS to sort of 'reset' (I guess to maximize its range during exposure) If you're looking through the viewfinder you can see the image physically shift as you take the shot. I've never tested, and you didn't say what flash settings you were using, but if it was front or rear curtain sync you should be able to figure out if this is affecting the start or end of the exposure. I would expect one of front/rear curtain sync to produce a better image than the other.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:42











    • In any case, turn it off on the tripod - especially with flash. You just don't need it. Save your batteries.

      – J...
      Feb 12 at 19:44







    1




    1





    If you feel your answer answers your question, you can mark it as the answer.

    – xiota
    Feb 12 at 8:50





    If you feel your answer answers your question, you can mark it as the answer.

    – xiota
    Feb 12 at 8:50













    The Sigma 105mm macro does this. I'm not sure if it's at the start or the end of the exposure, but releasing the shutter triggers the IS to sort of 'reset' (I guess to maximize its range during exposure) If you're looking through the viewfinder you can see the image physically shift as you take the shot. I've never tested, and you didn't say what flash settings you were using, but if it was front or rear curtain sync you should be able to figure out if this is affecting the start or end of the exposure. I would expect one of front/rear curtain sync to produce a better image than the other.

    – J...
    Feb 12 at 19:42





    The Sigma 105mm macro does this. I'm not sure if it's at the start or the end of the exposure, but releasing the shutter triggers the IS to sort of 'reset' (I guess to maximize its range during exposure) If you're looking through the viewfinder you can see the image physically shift as you take the shot. I've never tested, and you didn't say what flash settings you were using, but if it was front or rear curtain sync you should be able to figure out if this is affecting the start or end of the exposure. I would expect one of front/rear curtain sync to produce a better image than the other.

    – J...
    Feb 12 at 19:42













    In any case, turn it off on the tripod - especially with flash. You just don't need it. Save your batteries.

    – J...
    Feb 12 at 19:44





    In any case, turn it off on the tripod - especially with flash. You just don't need it. Save your batteries.

    – J...
    Feb 12 at 19:44













    22














    Sigma's product manual says:




    Please do not use Optical Stabilization in the following situations.



    • When the lens is mounted on a tripod

    • Bulb (long time exposure)



    As I understand it, the problem is as follows. Stabilization works by having some lens elements move around to correct for the the movement of the whole assembly. As Isaac Newton teaches us, every action has an equal and opposite reaction so, when the stabilizer moves lens elements to the left, that nudges the whole lens slightly to the right. If you're shooting hand-held, this isn't a problem, because that little nudge is dwarfed by your hands shaking around. However, when the lens is mounted on a tripod, that nudge is the biggest movement the lens feels. So it tries to correct for it by moving the stabilization elements in the opposite direction. That creates another nudge which the lens also tries to correct. So you end up in a feedback loop where the lens is shifting itself around the whole time, giving a blurry image.



    Some newer stabilization systems switch themselves off if they detect that there's so little movement that the lens is likely on a tripod. Other systems, such as the one on your lens, require the user to switch off stabilization when a tripod is being used.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      Almost all lenses with IS made since about the year 2000 have auto-sensing modes to prevent feedback loops when used on a tripod. Only a handful of early stabilized lenses actually demonstrated this phenomenon. But once an idea about a "new" technology gets out there, it's hard to ever change the perception, even though most later examples do not demonstrated the issue.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 4:44







    • 2





      @MichaelC Well, I quoted and linked to Sigma's manual for this lens. That manual clearly states that stabilization shouldn't be used on a tripod. The OP also found that switching off stabilization fixed the problem. Are you saying that there's some other reason for this?

      – David Richerby
      Feb 12 at 10:41












    • I'm saying if such a recent lens demonstrates feedback when tripod mounted, Sigma clearly dropped the ball on this.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 20:33















    22














    Sigma's product manual says:




    Please do not use Optical Stabilization in the following situations.



    • When the lens is mounted on a tripod

    • Bulb (long time exposure)



    As I understand it, the problem is as follows. Stabilization works by having some lens elements move around to correct for the the movement of the whole assembly. As Isaac Newton teaches us, every action has an equal and opposite reaction so, when the stabilizer moves lens elements to the left, that nudges the whole lens slightly to the right. If you're shooting hand-held, this isn't a problem, because that little nudge is dwarfed by your hands shaking around. However, when the lens is mounted on a tripod, that nudge is the biggest movement the lens feels. So it tries to correct for it by moving the stabilization elements in the opposite direction. That creates another nudge which the lens also tries to correct. So you end up in a feedback loop where the lens is shifting itself around the whole time, giving a blurry image.



    Some newer stabilization systems switch themselves off if they detect that there's so little movement that the lens is likely on a tripod. Other systems, such as the one on your lens, require the user to switch off stabilization when a tripod is being used.






    share|improve this answer


















    • 2





      Almost all lenses with IS made since about the year 2000 have auto-sensing modes to prevent feedback loops when used on a tripod. Only a handful of early stabilized lenses actually demonstrated this phenomenon. But once an idea about a "new" technology gets out there, it's hard to ever change the perception, even though most later examples do not demonstrated the issue.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 4:44







    • 2





      @MichaelC Well, I quoted and linked to Sigma's manual for this lens. That manual clearly states that stabilization shouldn't be used on a tripod. The OP also found that switching off stabilization fixed the problem. Are you saying that there's some other reason for this?

      – David Richerby
      Feb 12 at 10:41












    • I'm saying if such a recent lens demonstrates feedback when tripod mounted, Sigma clearly dropped the ball on this.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 20:33













    22












    22








    22







    Sigma's product manual says:




    Please do not use Optical Stabilization in the following situations.



    • When the lens is mounted on a tripod

    • Bulb (long time exposure)



    As I understand it, the problem is as follows. Stabilization works by having some lens elements move around to correct for the the movement of the whole assembly. As Isaac Newton teaches us, every action has an equal and opposite reaction so, when the stabilizer moves lens elements to the left, that nudges the whole lens slightly to the right. If you're shooting hand-held, this isn't a problem, because that little nudge is dwarfed by your hands shaking around. However, when the lens is mounted on a tripod, that nudge is the biggest movement the lens feels. So it tries to correct for it by moving the stabilization elements in the opposite direction. That creates another nudge which the lens also tries to correct. So you end up in a feedback loop where the lens is shifting itself around the whole time, giving a blurry image.



    Some newer stabilization systems switch themselves off if they detect that there's so little movement that the lens is likely on a tripod. Other systems, such as the one on your lens, require the user to switch off stabilization when a tripod is being used.






    share|improve this answer













    Sigma's product manual says:




    Please do not use Optical Stabilization in the following situations.



    • When the lens is mounted on a tripod

    • Bulb (long time exposure)



    As I understand it, the problem is as follows. Stabilization works by having some lens elements move around to correct for the the movement of the whole assembly. As Isaac Newton teaches us, every action has an equal and opposite reaction so, when the stabilizer moves lens elements to the left, that nudges the whole lens slightly to the right. If you're shooting hand-held, this isn't a problem, because that little nudge is dwarfed by your hands shaking around. However, when the lens is mounted on a tripod, that nudge is the biggest movement the lens feels. So it tries to correct for it by moving the stabilization elements in the opposite direction. That creates another nudge which the lens also tries to correct. So you end up in a feedback loop where the lens is shifting itself around the whole time, giving a blurry image.



    Some newer stabilization systems switch themselves off if they detect that there's so little movement that the lens is likely on a tripod. Other systems, such as the one on your lens, require the user to switch off stabilization when a tripod is being used.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Feb 11 at 15:10









    David RicherbyDavid Richerby

    1,257919




    1,257919







    • 2





      Almost all lenses with IS made since about the year 2000 have auto-sensing modes to prevent feedback loops when used on a tripod. Only a handful of early stabilized lenses actually demonstrated this phenomenon. But once an idea about a "new" technology gets out there, it's hard to ever change the perception, even though most later examples do not demonstrated the issue.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 4:44







    • 2





      @MichaelC Well, I quoted and linked to Sigma's manual for this lens. That manual clearly states that stabilization shouldn't be used on a tripod. The OP also found that switching off stabilization fixed the problem. Are you saying that there's some other reason for this?

      – David Richerby
      Feb 12 at 10:41












    • I'm saying if such a recent lens demonstrates feedback when tripod mounted, Sigma clearly dropped the ball on this.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 20:33












    • 2





      Almost all lenses with IS made since about the year 2000 have auto-sensing modes to prevent feedback loops when used on a tripod. Only a handful of early stabilized lenses actually demonstrated this phenomenon. But once an idea about a "new" technology gets out there, it's hard to ever change the perception, even though most later examples do not demonstrated the issue.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 4:44







    • 2





      @MichaelC Well, I quoted and linked to Sigma's manual for this lens. That manual clearly states that stabilization shouldn't be used on a tripod. The OP also found that switching off stabilization fixed the problem. Are you saying that there's some other reason for this?

      – David Richerby
      Feb 12 at 10:41












    • I'm saying if such a recent lens demonstrates feedback when tripod mounted, Sigma clearly dropped the ball on this.

      – Michael C
      Feb 12 at 20:33







    2




    2





    Almost all lenses with IS made since about the year 2000 have auto-sensing modes to prevent feedback loops when used on a tripod. Only a handful of early stabilized lenses actually demonstrated this phenomenon. But once an idea about a "new" technology gets out there, it's hard to ever change the perception, even though most later examples do not demonstrated the issue.

    – Michael C
    Feb 12 at 4:44






    Almost all lenses with IS made since about the year 2000 have auto-sensing modes to prevent feedback loops when used on a tripod. Only a handful of early stabilized lenses actually demonstrated this phenomenon. But once an idea about a "new" technology gets out there, it's hard to ever change the perception, even though most later examples do not demonstrated the issue.

    – Michael C
    Feb 12 at 4:44





    2




    2





    @MichaelC Well, I quoted and linked to Sigma's manual for this lens. That manual clearly states that stabilization shouldn't be used on a tripod. The OP also found that switching off stabilization fixed the problem. Are you saying that there's some other reason for this?

    – David Richerby
    Feb 12 at 10:41






    @MichaelC Well, I quoted and linked to Sigma's manual for this lens. That manual clearly states that stabilization shouldn't be used on a tripod. The OP also found that switching off stabilization fixed the problem. Are you saying that there's some other reason for this?

    – David Richerby
    Feb 12 at 10:41














    I'm saying if such a recent lens demonstrates feedback when tripod mounted, Sigma clearly dropped the ball on this.

    – Michael C
    Feb 12 at 20:33





    I'm saying if such a recent lens demonstrates feedback when tripod mounted, Sigma clearly dropped the ball on this.

    – Michael C
    Feb 12 at 20:33











    3















    It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).




    Not necessarily. The difference could have been something else only tangentially related to using the flash. When comparing the shot taken with the flash and the shot taken without flash:



    • What exposure mode were you using in each shot?

    • Did any of the exposure parameters (ISO, Tv, Av) change?

    • Was the camera set to a specific ISO setting or was 'Auto ISO' enabled?

    • If using [Av] exposure mode, what setting is selected for [C.Fn I:Exposure → Flash sync. speed in Av mode]?

    It's entirely possible that a slower shutter time was forced by the use of the flash, depending on your camera's settings at the time. It's also possible that your tripod is not as stable as you might want (or the surface it is sitting on is not as stable as you might want).



    Some flashes also produce pulses of hot air directly in front of the flash head. The sudden change in air pressure directly in front of the flash head can cause the same kind of force acting on the flash as a small gust of wind would.






    share|improve this answer





























      3















      It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).




      Not necessarily. The difference could have been something else only tangentially related to using the flash. When comparing the shot taken with the flash and the shot taken without flash:



      • What exposure mode were you using in each shot?

      • Did any of the exposure parameters (ISO, Tv, Av) change?

      • Was the camera set to a specific ISO setting or was 'Auto ISO' enabled?

      • If using [Av] exposure mode, what setting is selected for [C.Fn I:Exposure → Flash sync. speed in Av mode]?

      It's entirely possible that a slower shutter time was forced by the use of the flash, depending on your camera's settings at the time. It's also possible that your tripod is not as stable as you might want (or the surface it is sitting on is not as stable as you might want).



      Some flashes also produce pulses of hot air directly in front of the flash head. The sudden change in air pressure directly in front of the flash head can cause the same kind of force acting on the flash as a small gust of wind would.






      share|improve this answer



























        3












        3








        3








        It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).




        Not necessarily. The difference could have been something else only tangentially related to using the flash. When comparing the shot taken with the flash and the shot taken without flash:



        • What exposure mode were you using in each shot?

        • Did any of the exposure parameters (ISO, Tv, Av) change?

        • Was the camera set to a specific ISO setting or was 'Auto ISO' enabled?

        • If using [Av] exposure mode, what setting is selected for [C.Fn I:Exposure → Flash sync. speed in Av mode]?

        It's entirely possible that a slower shutter time was forced by the use of the flash, depending on your camera's settings at the time. It's also possible that your tripod is not as stable as you might want (or the surface it is sitting on is not as stable as you might want).



        Some flashes also produce pulses of hot air directly in front of the flash head. The sudden change in air pressure directly in front of the flash head can cause the same kind of force acting on the flash as a small gust of wind would.






        share|improve this answer
















        It is definitely caused by the flash (shot of the exact same scene without flash removed the ghost image).




        Not necessarily. The difference could have been something else only tangentially related to using the flash. When comparing the shot taken with the flash and the shot taken without flash:



        • What exposure mode were you using in each shot?

        • Did any of the exposure parameters (ISO, Tv, Av) change?

        • Was the camera set to a specific ISO setting or was 'Auto ISO' enabled?

        • If using [Av] exposure mode, what setting is selected for [C.Fn I:Exposure → Flash sync. speed in Av mode]?

        It's entirely possible that a slower shutter time was forced by the use of the flash, depending on your camera's settings at the time. It's also possible that your tripod is not as stable as you might want (or the surface it is sitting on is not as stable as you might want).



        Some flashes also produce pulses of hot air directly in front of the flash head. The sudden change in air pressure directly in front of the flash head can cause the same kind of force acting on the flash as a small gust of wind would.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Feb 12 at 4:51

























        answered Feb 10 at 18:10









        Michael CMichael C

        132k7151374




        132k7151374





















            -1














            You didn't bother to specify whether you are using an external flash or not, a camera-mounted flash or remote, and which brand of flash.



            You mention "Flash was on ETTL". That counts towards an external flash. Which is too bad since I have a better explanation for an internal flash (voltage drop) but it can be stretched to match external.



            Image stabilisation is done by the lens. For that it needs information from the camera and current from the camera. The current is used for suspending and moving the image stabilisation elements in a magnetic field.



            Now what happens is that at the moment of firing the flash, something significantly changes for the IS. The communication gets messed up due to the electromagnetic pulse of a rapid discharge or the available voltage/current for working the image stabilisation drops because the flash recharge circuitry starts drawing large current. Additional current is drawn by the lens aperture closing down to its nominal value: that may also cause some mechanical unrest so you might try whether it makes a difference to shoot at maximum aperture.



            Also check the shutter speed taken: usually it should just be the flash's and camera's sync speed.



            So things to try: maximum aperture (reduces aperture action but also flash power, so it's not a completely isolated test), fresh batteries or use the mains power supply, double-check the lens contacts to be clean (when in doubt, cleaning them with a bit of alcohol on a cotton swab might be an idea) and the lens to be mounted and locked well. Try using external instead of internal flash and vice versa or a different external flash.



            You have found a workaround but it would be good to figure out what the exact problem is so that you can recognize it when it arises in somewhat different circumstances.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 1





              In-lens image stabilization doesn't require any information from the camera. Gyroscopes within the lens are used to detect camera movement; aperture and focal length might affect the stabilization required but the lens already knows those.

              – David Richerby
              Feb 11 at 15:12











            • That depend on the implementation of lens-based IS. Some systems do require camera based communication. Even if no "communication" is needed, electrical current certainly is.

              – Michael C
              Feb 12 at 4:48















            -1














            You didn't bother to specify whether you are using an external flash or not, a camera-mounted flash or remote, and which brand of flash.



            You mention "Flash was on ETTL". That counts towards an external flash. Which is too bad since I have a better explanation for an internal flash (voltage drop) but it can be stretched to match external.



            Image stabilisation is done by the lens. For that it needs information from the camera and current from the camera. The current is used for suspending and moving the image stabilisation elements in a magnetic field.



            Now what happens is that at the moment of firing the flash, something significantly changes for the IS. The communication gets messed up due to the electromagnetic pulse of a rapid discharge or the available voltage/current for working the image stabilisation drops because the flash recharge circuitry starts drawing large current. Additional current is drawn by the lens aperture closing down to its nominal value: that may also cause some mechanical unrest so you might try whether it makes a difference to shoot at maximum aperture.



            Also check the shutter speed taken: usually it should just be the flash's and camera's sync speed.



            So things to try: maximum aperture (reduces aperture action but also flash power, so it's not a completely isolated test), fresh batteries or use the mains power supply, double-check the lens contacts to be clean (when in doubt, cleaning them with a bit of alcohol on a cotton swab might be an idea) and the lens to be mounted and locked well. Try using external instead of internal flash and vice versa or a different external flash.



            You have found a workaround but it would be good to figure out what the exact problem is so that you can recognize it when it arises in somewhat different circumstances.






            share|improve this answer


















            • 1





              In-lens image stabilization doesn't require any information from the camera. Gyroscopes within the lens are used to detect camera movement; aperture and focal length might affect the stabilization required but the lens already knows those.

              – David Richerby
              Feb 11 at 15:12











            • That depend on the implementation of lens-based IS. Some systems do require camera based communication. Even if no "communication" is needed, electrical current certainly is.

              – Michael C
              Feb 12 at 4:48













            -1












            -1








            -1







            You didn't bother to specify whether you are using an external flash or not, a camera-mounted flash or remote, and which brand of flash.



            You mention "Flash was on ETTL". That counts towards an external flash. Which is too bad since I have a better explanation for an internal flash (voltage drop) but it can be stretched to match external.



            Image stabilisation is done by the lens. For that it needs information from the camera and current from the camera. The current is used for suspending and moving the image stabilisation elements in a magnetic field.



            Now what happens is that at the moment of firing the flash, something significantly changes for the IS. The communication gets messed up due to the electromagnetic pulse of a rapid discharge or the available voltage/current for working the image stabilisation drops because the flash recharge circuitry starts drawing large current. Additional current is drawn by the lens aperture closing down to its nominal value: that may also cause some mechanical unrest so you might try whether it makes a difference to shoot at maximum aperture.



            Also check the shutter speed taken: usually it should just be the flash's and camera's sync speed.



            So things to try: maximum aperture (reduces aperture action but also flash power, so it's not a completely isolated test), fresh batteries or use the mains power supply, double-check the lens contacts to be clean (when in doubt, cleaning them with a bit of alcohol on a cotton swab might be an idea) and the lens to be mounted and locked well. Try using external instead of internal flash and vice versa or a different external flash.



            You have found a workaround but it would be good to figure out what the exact problem is so that you can recognize it when it arises in somewhat different circumstances.






            share|improve this answer













            You didn't bother to specify whether you are using an external flash or not, a camera-mounted flash or remote, and which brand of flash.



            You mention "Flash was on ETTL". That counts towards an external flash. Which is too bad since I have a better explanation for an internal flash (voltage drop) but it can be stretched to match external.



            Image stabilisation is done by the lens. For that it needs information from the camera and current from the camera. The current is used for suspending and moving the image stabilisation elements in a magnetic field.



            Now what happens is that at the moment of firing the flash, something significantly changes for the IS. The communication gets messed up due to the electromagnetic pulse of a rapid discharge or the available voltage/current for working the image stabilisation drops because the flash recharge circuitry starts drawing large current. Additional current is drawn by the lens aperture closing down to its nominal value: that may also cause some mechanical unrest so you might try whether it makes a difference to shoot at maximum aperture.



            Also check the shutter speed taken: usually it should just be the flash's and camera's sync speed.



            So things to try: maximum aperture (reduces aperture action but also flash power, so it's not a completely isolated test), fresh batteries or use the mains power supply, double-check the lens contacts to be clean (when in doubt, cleaning them with a bit of alcohol on a cotton swab might be an idea) and the lens to be mounted and locked well. Try using external instead of internal flash and vice versa or a different external flash.



            You have found a workaround but it would be good to figure out what the exact problem is so that you can recognize it when it arises in somewhat different circumstances.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Feb 11 at 10:40







            user81901














            • 1





              In-lens image stabilization doesn't require any information from the camera. Gyroscopes within the lens are used to detect camera movement; aperture and focal length might affect the stabilization required but the lens already knows those.

              – David Richerby
              Feb 11 at 15:12











            • That depend on the implementation of lens-based IS. Some systems do require camera based communication. Even if no "communication" is needed, electrical current certainly is.

              – Michael C
              Feb 12 at 4:48












            • 1





              In-lens image stabilization doesn't require any information from the camera. Gyroscopes within the lens are used to detect camera movement; aperture and focal length might affect the stabilization required but the lens already knows those.

              – David Richerby
              Feb 11 at 15:12











            • That depend on the implementation of lens-based IS. Some systems do require camera based communication. Even if no "communication" is needed, electrical current certainly is.

              – Michael C
              Feb 12 at 4:48







            1




            1





            In-lens image stabilization doesn't require any information from the camera. Gyroscopes within the lens are used to detect camera movement; aperture and focal length might affect the stabilization required but the lens already knows those.

            – David Richerby
            Feb 11 at 15:12





            In-lens image stabilization doesn't require any information from the camera. Gyroscopes within the lens are used to detect camera movement; aperture and focal length might affect the stabilization required but the lens already knows those.

            – David Richerby
            Feb 11 at 15:12













            That depend on the implementation of lens-based IS. Some systems do require camera based communication. Even if no "communication" is needed, electrical current certainly is.

            – Michael C
            Feb 12 at 4:48





            That depend on the implementation of lens-based IS. Some systems do require camera based communication. Even if no "communication" is needed, electrical current certainly is.

            – Michael C
            Feb 12 at 4:48

















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