Why does Bandersnatch have dead ends?
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I saw Black Mirror: Bandersnatch (2018) and got a dead end by choosing the option where the protagonist destroys his computer when his "finished" code turns up buggy. But instead of continuing the story forward, the show kept repeating that scene and asked me to make a different choice where he just hits the desk, thus indicating a dead end.
The protagonist is already frustrated to the breaking point at this point, as his demo was a failure with his boss, so I felt the natural reaction would be that he would destroy his computer; but the show said otherwise.
Strictly from a screenplay point of view, why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd.
PS: The answer to another question indicates there are more dead ends too
analysis black-mirror black-mirror-bandersnatch
add a comment |
I saw Black Mirror: Bandersnatch (2018) and got a dead end by choosing the option where the protagonist destroys his computer when his "finished" code turns up buggy. But instead of continuing the story forward, the show kept repeating that scene and asked me to make a different choice where he just hits the desk, thus indicating a dead end.
The protagonist is already frustrated to the breaking point at this point, as his demo was a failure with his boss, so I felt the natural reaction would be that he would destroy his computer; but the show said otherwise.
Strictly from a screenplay point of view, why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd.
PS: The answer to another question indicates there are more dead ends too
analysis black-mirror black-mirror-bandersnatch
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Napoleon Wilson♦
Jan 18 at 18:06
add a comment |
I saw Black Mirror: Bandersnatch (2018) and got a dead end by choosing the option where the protagonist destroys his computer when his "finished" code turns up buggy. But instead of continuing the story forward, the show kept repeating that scene and asked me to make a different choice where he just hits the desk, thus indicating a dead end.
The protagonist is already frustrated to the breaking point at this point, as his demo was a failure with his boss, so I felt the natural reaction would be that he would destroy his computer; but the show said otherwise.
Strictly from a screenplay point of view, why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd.
PS: The answer to another question indicates there are more dead ends too
analysis black-mirror black-mirror-bandersnatch
I saw Black Mirror: Bandersnatch (2018) and got a dead end by choosing the option where the protagonist destroys his computer when his "finished" code turns up buggy. But instead of continuing the story forward, the show kept repeating that scene and asked me to make a different choice where he just hits the desk, thus indicating a dead end.
The protagonist is already frustrated to the breaking point at this point, as his demo was a failure with his boss, so I felt the natural reaction would be that he would destroy his computer; but the show said otherwise.
Strictly from a screenplay point of view, why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd.
PS: The answer to another question indicates there are more dead ends too
analysis black-mirror black-mirror-bandersnatch
analysis black-mirror black-mirror-bandersnatch
edited Jan 16 at 15:55
Johnny Bones
38.9k15103198
38.9k15103198
asked Jan 16 at 15:03
KharoBangdoKharoBangdo
4,649124281
4,649124281
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Napoleon Wilson♦
Jan 18 at 18:06
add a comment |
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Napoleon Wilson♦
Jan 18 at 18:06
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Napoleon Wilson♦
Jan 18 at 18:06
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Napoleon Wilson♦
Jan 18 at 18:06
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
Not all those ends are as dead as they look
Some of those dead ends lead to new content which helps establish the feeling something strange is going on, that time isn't strictly linear in this story, and that something else is somehow in control.
For example, when Stefan first arrives at Tuckersoft, Colin's code encounters a bug (what was it again? A buffer overflow caused by some kind of sprite?). From there, everyone goes into Mohan's office and Stefan presents Bandersnatch (game). Neither Colin nor Mohan have heard of the book.
Then, Mohan asks if you want to work with Tuckersoft. If you select "Yes", you immediately run into an ending where Stefan releases the game, it's buggy and half-finished, and a terrible game. Then you encounter what you've described as a dead end. The movie prompts you to go back to your last decision and try again.
BUT! This "second" time Stefan arrives at Tuckersoft, things go a little differently. This time, when Colin's game breaks, Stefan cuts Colin off and explains the bug he runs into. Further, inside Mohan's office, both Colin and Mohan know all about Bandersnatch (book). This shows the viewer that although you're repeating the major events, your choices have a lasting effect on the Bandersnatch (tv show) world. Colin even breaks the fourth wall on this during his acid trip (a few other places as well), and is so confident of it he's happy to jump off a building to demonstrate.
Further, some future options change based on the decisions you've made in the past. In the answer you linked to, you'll see you can pick up some "qualities" along the way, which affect the options you have. It's possible to encounter an apparent dead end, only to realize you unlocked another path along the way. For example, you can go back in time and find Stefan's rabbit as a child, but only if you've talked about Stefan's mom.
Then, of course, from a game perspective (because Bandersnatch lands somewhere between game and TV), every choice can't be equally as significant or correct. That's bad game design. You can see a couple of places where they thought about this: the non-consequential choices at the beginning show the viewer how choices work; selecting "yes" at Tuckersoft makes sense, so most viewers are immediately shown how they can go back and change a choice (and how that affects the story). So dead ends are a little necessary if you want the viewer to feel like they need to put effort into their decisions.
1
Should point out that those 2 choices (Which cereal? Which music?) at the beginning are not insignificant. The cereal does show up in ads later in the episode on some branches, and the music choice influences the music you hear throughout the whole thing. More to the point, if you're Netflix, those two are arguably the MOST important choices you can make, since they're likely collecting data on you for their advertisers.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 17 at 16:44
1
@DarrelHoffman What ads does Netflix serve? I've never seen an ad on Netflix.
– Azor Ahai
Jan 17 at 23:47
@AzorAhai - Maybe not directly, but you better believe Netflix is selling your data to advertisers that target you through other platforms. There are ads in their actual content, however, it just mostly takes the form of product placement. I'm near certain, for example, that they got money from Kellogg (and whatever the other company was, or were they both Kellogg? I forget.) for the featured use of their cereals in that first choice.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 18 at 14:59
@Darrell I thought both the cereal brands were made up
– Azor Ahai
Jan 18 at 15:23
add a comment |
Another reason it may be done this way to motif the video game concept. In some games, you don't always just die, as much as you may have some "players" left and can return to previous checkpoint. (ie: the difference between losing something vs losing everything/the whole game)
Checkpoints are locations in a video game where a player character
respawns after death. Characters generally respawn at the last
checkpoint that they have reached.**A respawn is most often due to the
death of the in-game character, but it can also be caused by the
failure to meet an objective required to advance in the game.
Checkpoints might be temporary, as they stop working when the
character loses all of its lives. Most modern games, however, save the
game to memory at these points, known as auto-saving.
Checkpoints might be visible or invisible to the player. Visible
checkpoints might give a player a sense of security when activated,
but in turn sacrifice some immersion, as checkpoints are intrinsically
"gamey" and might even need an explanation of how they work. Invisible
checkpoints do not break immersion, but make players unsure of where
they will respawn. Usually, if a player does get a game over, then
there progress will be lost, and the player would lose all of their
checkpoints.
"...why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd."
But also to go with Johnny Bones' great answer, the notion of different kind of endings also does not only point out that we don't have full control and that there are still limitations, but it also gives us a contrast to consider what an ending really is, which the creators behind Bandersantch seem to want us to contemplate, as they themselves have...
Even Netflix says that while there are five “main” endings, there are
multiple variants on each that they are daring viewers to uncover. And
Brooker and Jones are clear as to not “prescribe” one ending over the
others, especially because they couldn’t agree on what exactly defines
one.
“There were quite heated debates about what constitutes an 'ending,'”
says Brooker. “There’s a school of thought that says any time it stops
and you go back, that’s an ending. In Bandersnatch, there are endings
that are really abrupt that are still endings, in my mind.”
Besides, Jones points out: “In a world of parallel realities, maybe
there is no ending?”
4
I think you meant "losing" rather than "loosing"?
– phyrfox
Jan 16 at 18:41
add a comment |
The show is based on the "Choose Your Own Adventure" series of books, and in fact the publisher of said books has sued Netflix over this series.
The point is, in the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, your character could die, thus making for a shorter story. In the TV show, it must run a specific length, thus the dead end forces you to choose an alternate course of action to progress the story along.
Keep in mind, they're on a budget. It's easier (and less expensive) to force you to make an alternate choice than to actually script and film every possible outcome.
Of course, the simple fact is that you don't really have a choice. ;o)
5
Considering the medium (internet streaming) there is no real reason to fill a fixed runtime. They could have just decided that this concludes the story and roll the credits.
– Philipp
Jan 16 at 16:47
18
Not sure what you mean about needing the show to run for a specific length. Netflix and other streaming services have famously freed television from the 22-minute episode format, as there are no time slot restrictions on how long each episode must be. This is particularly relevant for Bandersnatch, which can run anywhere between 40 and 150 minutes depending on the choices taken. There's no logistical reason why they couldn't have included a version of the story that reaches an ending in the first 5 minutes.
– Nuclear Wang
Jan 16 at 16:49
6
It's also totally Black Mirror to point out that your choice sometimes is irrelevant an there is no way out from the mess you got into.
– rbanffy
Jan 16 at 17:42
1
@Moyli - Noted and corrected. Thanks!
– Johnny Bones
Jan 16 at 19:49
1
I'm really surprised that "Choose Your Own Adventure" really not a generic name. I've never read a real "Choose Your Own Adventure" book; but I always remember referring to the Goosebump ones as such.
– JMac
Jan 16 at 21:19
|
show 4 more comments
Dead ends highlight one of the philosophical themes of the story
One of themes of the story in Bandersnatch is that the actions in the game are not as free as you think and are sometime predetermined. In one of the paths the game develop explains that he fixed some of the bugs blocking completion of the game by simplifying the choices and giving the players "the illusion of free will" by making it look as though they had a choice when they really didn't.
The programme mirrors some of this idea in the way it sometimes seems to present the viewer with choices that don't seem to change anything (though it is not quite that simple as some of them influence later events and choices even though they don't seem to do much immediately after the original choice).
But the overall impression the view takes away is that they are not really fully in control of where the story goes and I certainly felt that I was being pushed in particular directions without really being able to control the timeline.
I assume, given the way other Black Mirror stories were written, that this slightly uneasy feeling is exactly what the writers intended. It is a clever way to manipulate the feeling of the viewer by making him share some of the experiences of the game developer in the story who has to confront the fact he isn't really in control of his own life.
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Not all those ends are as dead as they look
Some of those dead ends lead to new content which helps establish the feeling something strange is going on, that time isn't strictly linear in this story, and that something else is somehow in control.
For example, when Stefan first arrives at Tuckersoft, Colin's code encounters a bug (what was it again? A buffer overflow caused by some kind of sprite?). From there, everyone goes into Mohan's office and Stefan presents Bandersnatch (game). Neither Colin nor Mohan have heard of the book.
Then, Mohan asks if you want to work with Tuckersoft. If you select "Yes", you immediately run into an ending where Stefan releases the game, it's buggy and half-finished, and a terrible game. Then you encounter what you've described as a dead end. The movie prompts you to go back to your last decision and try again.
BUT! This "second" time Stefan arrives at Tuckersoft, things go a little differently. This time, when Colin's game breaks, Stefan cuts Colin off and explains the bug he runs into. Further, inside Mohan's office, both Colin and Mohan know all about Bandersnatch (book). This shows the viewer that although you're repeating the major events, your choices have a lasting effect on the Bandersnatch (tv show) world. Colin even breaks the fourth wall on this during his acid trip (a few other places as well), and is so confident of it he's happy to jump off a building to demonstrate.
Further, some future options change based on the decisions you've made in the past. In the answer you linked to, you'll see you can pick up some "qualities" along the way, which affect the options you have. It's possible to encounter an apparent dead end, only to realize you unlocked another path along the way. For example, you can go back in time and find Stefan's rabbit as a child, but only if you've talked about Stefan's mom.
Then, of course, from a game perspective (because Bandersnatch lands somewhere between game and TV), every choice can't be equally as significant or correct. That's bad game design. You can see a couple of places where they thought about this: the non-consequential choices at the beginning show the viewer how choices work; selecting "yes" at Tuckersoft makes sense, so most viewers are immediately shown how they can go back and change a choice (and how that affects the story). So dead ends are a little necessary if you want the viewer to feel like they need to put effort into their decisions.
1
Should point out that those 2 choices (Which cereal? Which music?) at the beginning are not insignificant. The cereal does show up in ads later in the episode on some branches, and the music choice influences the music you hear throughout the whole thing. More to the point, if you're Netflix, those two are arguably the MOST important choices you can make, since they're likely collecting data on you for their advertisers.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 17 at 16:44
1
@DarrelHoffman What ads does Netflix serve? I've never seen an ad on Netflix.
– Azor Ahai
Jan 17 at 23:47
@AzorAhai - Maybe not directly, but you better believe Netflix is selling your data to advertisers that target you through other platforms. There are ads in their actual content, however, it just mostly takes the form of product placement. I'm near certain, for example, that they got money from Kellogg (and whatever the other company was, or were they both Kellogg? I forget.) for the featured use of their cereals in that first choice.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 18 at 14:59
@Darrell I thought both the cereal brands were made up
– Azor Ahai
Jan 18 at 15:23
add a comment |
Not all those ends are as dead as they look
Some of those dead ends lead to new content which helps establish the feeling something strange is going on, that time isn't strictly linear in this story, and that something else is somehow in control.
For example, when Stefan first arrives at Tuckersoft, Colin's code encounters a bug (what was it again? A buffer overflow caused by some kind of sprite?). From there, everyone goes into Mohan's office and Stefan presents Bandersnatch (game). Neither Colin nor Mohan have heard of the book.
Then, Mohan asks if you want to work with Tuckersoft. If you select "Yes", you immediately run into an ending where Stefan releases the game, it's buggy and half-finished, and a terrible game. Then you encounter what you've described as a dead end. The movie prompts you to go back to your last decision and try again.
BUT! This "second" time Stefan arrives at Tuckersoft, things go a little differently. This time, when Colin's game breaks, Stefan cuts Colin off and explains the bug he runs into. Further, inside Mohan's office, both Colin and Mohan know all about Bandersnatch (book). This shows the viewer that although you're repeating the major events, your choices have a lasting effect on the Bandersnatch (tv show) world. Colin even breaks the fourth wall on this during his acid trip (a few other places as well), and is so confident of it he's happy to jump off a building to demonstrate.
Further, some future options change based on the decisions you've made in the past. In the answer you linked to, you'll see you can pick up some "qualities" along the way, which affect the options you have. It's possible to encounter an apparent dead end, only to realize you unlocked another path along the way. For example, you can go back in time and find Stefan's rabbit as a child, but only if you've talked about Stefan's mom.
Then, of course, from a game perspective (because Bandersnatch lands somewhere between game and TV), every choice can't be equally as significant or correct. That's bad game design. You can see a couple of places where they thought about this: the non-consequential choices at the beginning show the viewer how choices work; selecting "yes" at Tuckersoft makes sense, so most viewers are immediately shown how they can go back and change a choice (and how that affects the story). So dead ends are a little necessary if you want the viewer to feel like they need to put effort into their decisions.
1
Should point out that those 2 choices (Which cereal? Which music?) at the beginning are not insignificant. The cereal does show up in ads later in the episode on some branches, and the music choice influences the music you hear throughout the whole thing. More to the point, if you're Netflix, those two are arguably the MOST important choices you can make, since they're likely collecting data on you for their advertisers.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 17 at 16:44
1
@DarrelHoffman What ads does Netflix serve? I've never seen an ad on Netflix.
– Azor Ahai
Jan 17 at 23:47
@AzorAhai - Maybe not directly, but you better believe Netflix is selling your data to advertisers that target you through other platforms. There are ads in their actual content, however, it just mostly takes the form of product placement. I'm near certain, for example, that they got money from Kellogg (and whatever the other company was, or were they both Kellogg? I forget.) for the featured use of their cereals in that first choice.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 18 at 14:59
@Darrell I thought both the cereal brands were made up
– Azor Ahai
Jan 18 at 15:23
add a comment |
Not all those ends are as dead as they look
Some of those dead ends lead to new content which helps establish the feeling something strange is going on, that time isn't strictly linear in this story, and that something else is somehow in control.
For example, when Stefan first arrives at Tuckersoft, Colin's code encounters a bug (what was it again? A buffer overflow caused by some kind of sprite?). From there, everyone goes into Mohan's office and Stefan presents Bandersnatch (game). Neither Colin nor Mohan have heard of the book.
Then, Mohan asks if you want to work with Tuckersoft. If you select "Yes", you immediately run into an ending where Stefan releases the game, it's buggy and half-finished, and a terrible game. Then you encounter what you've described as a dead end. The movie prompts you to go back to your last decision and try again.
BUT! This "second" time Stefan arrives at Tuckersoft, things go a little differently. This time, when Colin's game breaks, Stefan cuts Colin off and explains the bug he runs into. Further, inside Mohan's office, both Colin and Mohan know all about Bandersnatch (book). This shows the viewer that although you're repeating the major events, your choices have a lasting effect on the Bandersnatch (tv show) world. Colin even breaks the fourth wall on this during his acid trip (a few other places as well), and is so confident of it he's happy to jump off a building to demonstrate.
Further, some future options change based on the decisions you've made in the past. In the answer you linked to, you'll see you can pick up some "qualities" along the way, which affect the options you have. It's possible to encounter an apparent dead end, only to realize you unlocked another path along the way. For example, you can go back in time and find Stefan's rabbit as a child, but only if you've talked about Stefan's mom.
Then, of course, from a game perspective (because Bandersnatch lands somewhere between game and TV), every choice can't be equally as significant or correct. That's bad game design. You can see a couple of places where they thought about this: the non-consequential choices at the beginning show the viewer how choices work; selecting "yes" at Tuckersoft makes sense, so most viewers are immediately shown how they can go back and change a choice (and how that affects the story). So dead ends are a little necessary if you want the viewer to feel like they need to put effort into their decisions.
Not all those ends are as dead as they look
Some of those dead ends lead to new content which helps establish the feeling something strange is going on, that time isn't strictly linear in this story, and that something else is somehow in control.
For example, when Stefan first arrives at Tuckersoft, Colin's code encounters a bug (what was it again? A buffer overflow caused by some kind of sprite?). From there, everyone goes into Mohan's office and Stefan presents Bandersnatch (game). Neither Colin nor Mohan have heard of the book.
Then, Mohan asks if you want to work with Tuckersoft. If you select "Yes", you immediately run into an ending where Stefan releases the game, it's buggy and half-finished, and a terrible game. Then you encounter what you've described as a dead end. The movie prompts you to go back to your last decision and try again.
BUT! This "second" time Stefan arrives at Tuckersoft, things go a little differently. This time, when Colin's game breaks, Stefan cuts Colin off and explains the bug he runs into. Further, inside Mohan's office, both Colin and Mohan know all about Bandersnatch (book). This shows the viewer that although you're repeating the major events, your choices have a lasting effect on the Bandersnatch (tv show) world. Colin even breaks the fourth wall on this during his acid trip (a few other places as well), and is so confident of it he's happy to jump off a building to demonstrate.
Further, some future options change based on the decisions you've made in the past. In the answer you linked to, you'll see you can pick up some "qualities" along the way, which affect the options you have. It's possible to encounter an apparent dead end, only to realize you unlocked another path along the way. For example, you can go back in time and find Stefan's rabbit as a child, but only if you've talked about Stefan's mom.
Then, of course, from a game perspective (because Bandersnatch lands somewhere between game and TV), every choice can't be equally as significant or correct. That's bad game design. You can see a couple of places where they thought about this: the non-consequential choices at the beginning show the viewer how choices work; selecting "yes" at Tuckersoft makes sense, so most viewers are immediately shown how they can go back and change a choice (and how that affects the story). So dead ends are a little necessary if you want the viewer to feel like they need to put effort into their decisions.
answered Jan 16 at 19:37
Lord FarquaadLord Farquaad
37626
37626
1
Should point out that those 2 choices (Which cereal? Which music?) at the beginning are not insignificant. The cereal does show up in ads later in the episode on some branches, and the music choice influences the music you hear throughout the whole thing. More to the point, if you're Netflix, those two are arguably the MOST important choices you can make, since they're likely collecting data on you for their advertisers.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 17 at 16:44
1
@DarrelHoffman What ads does Netflix serve? I've never seen an ad on Netflix.
– Azor Ahai
Jan 17 at 23:47
@AzorAhai - Maybe not directly, but you better believe Netflix is selling your data to advertisers that target you through other platforms. There are ads in their actual content, however, it just mostly takes the form of product placement. I'm near certain, for example, that they got money from Kellogg (and whatever the other company was, or were they both Kellogg? I forget.) for the featured use of their cereals in that first choice.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 18 at 14:59
@Darrell I thought both the cereal brands were made up
– Azor Ahai
Jan 18 at 15:23
add a comment |
1
Should point out that those 2 choices (Which cereal? Which music?) at the beginning are not insignificant. The cereal does show up in ads later in the episode on some branches, and the music choice influences the music you hear throughout the whole thing. More to the point, if you're Netflix, those two are arguably the MOST important choices you can make, since they're likely collecting data on you for their advertisers.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 17 at 16:44
1
@DarrelHoffman What ads does Netflix serve? I've never seen an ad on Netflix.
– Azor Ahai
Jan 17 at 23:47
@AzorAhai - Maybe not directly, but you better believe Netflix is selling your data to advertisers that target you through other platforms. There are ads in their actual content, however, it just mostly takes the form of product placement. I'm near certain, for example, that they got money from Kellogg (and whatever the other company was, or were they both Kellogg? I forget.) for the featured use of their cereals in that first choice.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 18 at 14:59
@Darrell I thought both the cereal brands were made up
– Azor Ahai
Jan 18 at 15:23
1
1
Should point out that those 2 choices (Which cereal? Which music?) at the beginning are not insignificant. The cereal does show up in ads later in the episode on some branches, and the music choice influences the music you hear throughout the whole thing. More to the point, if you're Netflix, those two are arguably the MOST important choices you can make, since they're likely collecting data on you for their advertisers.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 17 at 16:44
Should point out that those 2 choices (Which cereal? Which music?) at the beginning are not insignificant. The cereal does show up in ads later in the episode on some branches, and the music choice influences the music you hear throughout the whole thing. More to the point, if you're Netflix, those two are arguably the MOST important choices you can make, since they're likely collecting data on you for their advertisers.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 17 at 16:44
1
1
@DarrelHoffman What ads does Netflix serve? I've never seen an ad on Netflix.
– Azor Ahai
Jan 17 at 23:47
@DarrelHoffman What ads does Netflix serve? I've never seen an ad on Netflix.
– Azor Ahai
Jan 17 at 23:47
@AzorAhai - Maybe not directly, but you better believe Netflix is selling your data to advertisers that target you through other platforms. There are ads in their actual content, however, it just mostly takes the form of product placement. I'm near certain, for example, that they got money from Kellogg (and whatever the other company was, or were they both Kellogg? I forget.) for the featured use of their cereals in that first choice.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 18 at 14:59
@AzorAhai - Maybe not directly, but you better believe Netflix is selling your data to advertisers that target you through other platforms. There are ads in their actual content, however, it just mostly takes the form of product placement. I'm near certain, for example, that they got money from Kellogg (and whatever the other company was, or were they both Kellogg? I forget.) for the featured use of their cereals in that first choice.
– Darrel Hoffman
Jan 18 at 14:59
@Darrell I thought both the cereal brands were made up
– Azor Ahai
Jan 18 at 15:23
@Darrell I thought both the cereal brands were made up
– Azor Ahai
Jan 18 at 15:23
add a comment |
Another reason it may be done this way to motif the video game concept. In some games, you don't always just die, as much as you may have some "players" left and can return to previous checkpoint. (ie: the difference between losing something vs losing everything/the whole game)
Checkpoints are locations in a video game where a player character
respawns after death. Characters generally respawn at the last
checkpoint that they have reached.**A respawn is most often due to the
death of the in-game character, but it can also be caused by the
failure to meet an objective required to advance in the game.
Checkpoints might be temporary, as they stop working when the
character loses all of its lives. Most modern games, however, save the
game to memory at these points, known as auto-saving.
Checkpoints might be visible or invisible to the player. Visible
checkpoints might give a player a sense of security when activated,
but in turn sacrifice some immersion, as checkpoints are intrinsically
"gamey" and might even need an explanation of how they work. Invisible
checkpoints do not break immersion, but make players unsure of where
they will respawn. Usually, if a player does get a game over, then
there progress will be lost, and the player would lose all of their
checkpoints.
"...why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd."
But also to go with Johnny Bones' great answer, the notion of different kind of endings also does not only point out that we don't have full control and that there are still limitations, but it also gives us a contrast to consider what an ending really is, which the creators behind Bandersantch seem to want us to contemplate, as they themselves have...
Even Netflix says that while there are five “main” endings, there are
multiple variants on each that they are daring viewers to uncover. And
Brooker and Jones are clear as to not “prescribe” one ending over the
others, especially because they couldn’t agree on what exactly defines
one.
“There were quite heated debates about what constitutes an 'ending,'”
says Brooker. “There’s a school of thought that says any time it stops
and you go back, that’s an ending. In Bandersnatch, there are endings
that are really abrupt that are still endings, in my mind.”
Besides, Jones points out: “In a world of parallel realities, maybe
there is no ending?”
4
I think you meant "losing" rather than "loosing"?
– phyrfox
Jan 16 at 18:41
add a comment |
Another reason it may be done this way to motif the video game concept. In some games, you don't always just die, as much as you may have some "players" left and can return to previous checkpoint. (ie: the difference between losing something vs losing everything/the whole game)
Checkpoints are locations in a video game where a player character
respawns after death. Characters generally respawn at the last
checkpoint that they have reached.**A respawn is most often due to the
death of the in-game character, but it can also be caused by the
failure to meet an objective required to advance in the game.
Checkpoints might be temporary, as they stop working when the
character loses all of its lives. Most modern games, however, save the
game to memory at these points, known as auto-saving.
Checkpoints might be visible or invisible to the player. Visible
checkpoints might give a player a sense of security when activated,
but in turn sacrifice some immersion, as checkpoints are intrinsically
"gamey" and might even need an explanation of how they work. Invisible
checkpoints do not break immersion, but make players unsure of where
they will respawn. Usually, if a player does get a game over, then
there progress will be lost, and the player would lose all of their
checkpoints.
"...why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd."
But also to go with Johnny Bones' great answer, the notion of different kind of endings also does not only point out that we don't have full control and that there are still limitations, but it also gives us a contrast to consider what an ending really is, which the creators behind Bandersantch seem to want us to contemplate, as they themselves have...
Even Netflix says that while there are five “main” endings, there are
multiple variants on each that they are daring viewers to uncover. And
Brooker and Jones are clear as to not “prescribe” one ending over the
others, especially because they couldn’t agree on what exactly defines
one.
“There were quite heated debates about what constitutes an 'ending,'”
says Brooker. “There’s a school of thought that says any time it stops
and you go back, that’s an ending. In Bandersnatch, there are endings
that are really abrupt that are still endings, in my mind.”
Besides, Jones points out: “In a world of parallel realities, maybe
there is no ending?”
4
I think you meant "losing" rather than "loosing"?
– phyrfox
Jan 16 at 18:41
add a comment |
Another reason it may be done this way to motif the video game concept. In some games, you don't always just die, as much as you may have some "players" left and can return to previous checkpoint. (ie: the difference between losing something vs losing everything/the whole game)
Checkpoints are locations in a video game where a player character
respawns after death. Characters generally respawn at the last
checkpoint that they have reached.**A respawn is most often due to the
death of the in-game character, but it can also be caused by the
failure to meet an objective required to advance in the game.
Checkpoints might be temporary, as they stop working when the
character loses all of its lives. Most modern games, however, save the
game to memory at these points, known as auto-saving.
Checkpoints might be visible or invisible to the player. Visible
checkpoints might give a player a sense of security when activated,
but in turn sacrifice some immersion, as checkpoints are intrinsically
"gamey" and might even need an explanation of how they work. Invisible
checkpoints do not break immersion, but make players unsure of where
they will respawn. Usually, if a player does get a game over, then
there progress will be lost, and the player would lose all of their
checkpoints.
"...why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd."
But also to go with Johnny Bones' great answer, the notion of different kind of endings also does not only point out that we don't have full control and that there are still limitations, but it also gives us a contrast to consider what an ending really is, which the creators behind Bandersantch seem to want us to contemplate, as they themselves have...
Even Netflix says that while there are five “main” endings, there are
multiple variants on each that they are daring viewers to uncover. And
Brooker and Jones are clear as to not “prescribe” one ending over the
others, especially because they couldn’t agree on what exactly defines
one.
“There were quite heated debates about what constitutes an 'ending,'”
says Brooker. “There’s a school of thought that says any time it stops
and you go back, that’s an ending. In Bandersnatch, there are endings
that are really abrupt that are still endings, in my mind.”
Besides, Jones points out: “In a world of parallel realities, maybe
there is no ending?”
Another reason it may be done this way to motif the video game concept. In some games, you don't always just die, as much as you may have some "players" left and can return to previous checkpoint. (ie: the difference between losing something vs losing everything/the whole game)
Checkpoints are locations in a video game where a player character
respawns after death. Characters generally respawn at the last
checkpoint that they have reached.**A respawn is most often due to the
death of the in-game character, but it can also be caused by the
failure to meet an objective required to advance in the game.
Checkpoints might be temporary, as they stop working when the
character loses all of its lives. Most modern games, however, save the
game to memory at these points, known as auto-saving.
Checkpoints might be visible or invisible to the player. Visible
checkpoints might give a player a sense of security when activated,
but in turn sacrifice some immersion, as checkpoints are intrinsically
"gamey" and might even need an explanation of how they work. Invisible
checkpoints do not break immersion, but make players unsure of where
they will respawn. Usually, if a player does get a game over, then
there progress will be lost, and the player would lose all of their
checkpoints.
"...why were there dead ends like this in the story? Why didn't they lead to one of the filmed endings? Keeping dead ends in this novel approach to storytelling seems very odd."
But also to go with Johnny Bones' great answer, the notion of different kind of endings also does not only point out that we don't have full control and that there are still limitations, but it also gives us a contrast to consider what an ending really is, which the creators behind Bandersantch seem to want us to contemplate, as they themselves have...
Even Netflix says that while there are five “main” endings, there are
multiple variants on each that they are daring viewers to uncover. And
Brooker and Jones are clear as to not “prescribe” one ending over the
others, especially because they couldn’t agree on what exactly defines
one.
“There were quite heated debates about what constitutes an 'ending,'”
says Brooker. “There’s a school of thought that says any time it stops
and you go back, that’s an ending. In Bandersnatch, there are endings
that are really abrupt that are still endings, in my mind.”
Besides, Jones points out: “In a world of parallel realities, maybe
there is no ending?”
edited Jan 17 at 14:50
answered Jan 16 at 15:36
Darth LockeDarth Locke
11.1k12363
11.1k12363
4
I think you meant "losing" rather than "loosing"?
– phyrfox
Jan 16 at 18:41
add a comment |
4
I think you meant "losing" rather than "loosing"?
– phyrfox
Jan 16 at 18:41
4
4
I think you meant "losing" rather than "loosing"?
– phyrfox
Jan 16 at 18:41
I think you meant "losing" rather than "loosing"?
– phyrfox
Jan 16 at 18:41
add a comment |
The show is based on the "Choose Your Own Adventure" series of books, and in fact the publisher of said books has sued Netflix over this series.
The point is, in the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, your character could die, thus making for a shorter story. In the TV show, it must run a specific length, thus the dead end forces you to choose an alternate course of action to progress the story along.
Keep in mind, they're on a budget. It's easier (and less expensive) to force you to make an alternate choice than to actually script and film every possible outcome.
Of course, the simple fact is that you don't really have a choice. ;o)
5
Considering the medium (internet streaming) there is no real reason to fill a fixed runtime. They could have just decided that this concludes the story and roll the credits.
– Philipp
Jan 16 at 16:47
18
Not sure what you mean about needing the show to run for a specific length. Netflix and other streaming services have famously freed television from the 22-minute episode format, as there are no time slot restrictions on how long each episode must be. This is particularly relevant for Bandersnatch, which can run anywhere between 40 and 150 minutes depending on the choices taken. There's no logistical reason why they couldn't have included a version of the story that reaches an ending in the first 5 minutes.
– Nuclear Wang
Jan 16 at 16:49
6
It's also totally Black Mirror to point out that your choice sometimes is irrelevant an there is no way out from the mess you got into.
– rbanffy
Jan 16 at 17:42
1
@Moyli - Noted and corrected. Thanks!
– Johnny Bones
Jan 16 at 19:49
1
I'm really surprised that "Choose Your Own Adventure" really not a generic name. I've never read a real "Choose Your Own Adventure" book; but I always remember referring to the Goosebump ones as such.
– JMac
Jan 16 at 21:19
|
show 4 more comments
The show is based on the "Choose Your Own Adventure" series of books, and in fact the publisher of said books has sued Netflix over this series.
The point is, in the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, your character could die, thus making for a shorter story. In the TV show, it must run a specific length, thus the dead end forces you to choose an alternate course of action to progress the story along.
Keep in mind, they're on a budget. It's easier (and less expensive) to force you to make an alternate choice than to actually script and film every possible outcome.
Of course, the simple fact is that you don't really have a choice. ;o)
5
Considering the medium (internet streaming) there is no real reason to fill a fixed runtime. They could have just decided that this concludes the story and roll the credits.
– Philipp
Jan 16 at 16:47
18
Not sure what you mean about needing the show to run for a specific length. Netflix and other streaming services have famously freed television from the 22-minute episode format, as there are no time slot restrictions on how long each episode must be. This is particularly relevant for Bandersnatch, which can run anywhere between 40 and 150 minutes depending on the choices taken. There's no logistical reason why they couldn't have included a version of the story that reaches an ending in the first 5 minutes.
– Nuclear Wang
Jan 16 at 16:49
6
It's also totally Black Mirror to point out that your choice sometimes is irrelevant an there is no way out from the mess you got into.
– rbanffy
Jan 16 at 17:42
1
@Moyli - Noted and corrected. Thanks!
– Johnny Bones
Jan 16 at 19:49
1
I'm really surprised that "Choose Your Own Adventure" really not a generic name. I've never read a real "Choose Your Own Adventure" book; but I always remember referring to the Goosebump ones as such.
– JMac
Jan 16 at 21:19
|
show 4 more comments
The show is based on the "Choose Your Own Adventure" series of books, and in fact the publisher of said books has sued Netflix over this series.
The point is, in the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, your character could die, thus making for a shorter story. In the TV show, it must run a specific length, thus the dead end forces you to choose an alternate course of action to progress the story along.
Keep in mind, they're on a budget. It's easier (and less expensive) to force you to make an alternate choice than to actually script and film every possible outcome.
Of course, the simple fact is that you don't really have a choice. ;o)
The show is based on the "Choose Your Own Adventure" series of books, and in fact the publisher of said books has sued Netflix over this series.
The point is, in the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, your character could die, thus making for a shorter story. In the TV show, it must run a specific length, thus the dead end forces you to choose an alternate course of action to progress the story along.
Keep in mind, they're on a budget. It's easier (and less expensive) to force you to make an alternate choice than to actually script and film every possible outcome.
Of course, the simple fact is that you don't really have a choice. ;o)
edited Jan 16 at 19:49
answered Jan 16 at 15:10
Johnny BonesJohnny Bones
38.9k15103198
38.9k15103198
5
Considering the medium (internet streaming) there is no real reason to fill a fixed runtime. They could have just decided that this concludes the story and roll the credits.
– Philipp
Jan 16 at 16:47
18
Not sure what you mean about needing the show to run for a specific length. Netflix and other streaming services have famously freed television from the 22-minute episode format, as there are no time slot restrictions on how long each episode must be. This is particularly relevant for Bandersnatch, which can run anywhere between 40 and 150 minutes depending on the choices taken. There's no logistical reason why they couldn't have included a version of the story that reaches an ending in the first 5 minutes.
– Nuclear Wang
Jan 16 at 16:49
6
It's also totally Black Mirror to point out that your choice sometimes is irrelevant an there is no way out from the mess you got into.
– rbanffy
Jan 16 at 17:42
1
@Moyli - Noted and corrected. Thanks!
– Johnny Bones
Jan 16 at 19:49
1
I'm really surprised that "Choose Your Own Adventure" really not a generic name. I've never read a real "Choose Your Own Adventure" book; but I always remember referring to the Goosebump ones as such.
– JMac
Jan 16 at 21:19
|
show 4 more comments
5
Considering the medium (internet streaming) there is no real reason to fill a fixed runtime. They could have just decided that this concludes the story and roll the credits.
– Philipp
Jan 16 at 16:47
18
Not sure what you mean about needing the show to run for a specific length. Netflix and other streaming services have famously freed television from the 22-minute episode format, as there are no time slot restrictions on how long each episode must be. This is particularly relevant for Bandersnatch, which can run anywhere between 40 and 150 minutes depending on the choices taken. There's no logistical reason why they couldn't have included a version of the story that reaches an ending in the first 5 minutes.
– Nuclear Wang
Jan 16 at 16:49
6
It's also totally Black Mirror to point out that your choice sometimes is irrelevant an there is no way out from the mess you got into.
– rbanffy
Jan 16 at 17:42
1
@Moyli - Noted and corrected. Thanks!
– Johnny Bones
Jan 16 at 19:49
1
I'm really surprised that "Choose Your Own Adventure" really not a generic name. I've never read a real "Choose Your Own Adventure" book; but I always remember referring to the Goosebump ones as such.
– JMac
Jan 16 at 21:19
5
5
Considering the medium (internet streaming) there is no real reason to fill a fixed runtime. They could have just decided that this concludes the story and roll the credits.
– Philipp
Jan 16 at 16:47
Considering the medium (internet streaming) there is no real reason to fill a fixed runtime. They could have just decided that this concludes the story and roll the credits.
– Philipp
Jan 16 at 16:47
18
18
Not sure what you mean about needing the show to run for a specific length. Netflix and other streaming services have famously freed television from the 22-minute episode format, as there are no time slot restrictions on how long each episode must be. This is particularly relevant for Bandersnatch, which can run anywhere between 40 and 150 minutes depending on the choices taken. There's no logistical reason why they couldn't have included a version of the story that reaches an ending in the first 5 minutes.
– Nuclear Wang
Jan 16 at 16:49
Not sure what you mean about needing the show to run for a specific length. Netflix and other streaming services have famously freed television from the 22-minute episode format, as there are no time slot restrictions on how long each episode must be. This is particularly relevant for Bandersnatch, which can run anywhere between 40 and 150 minutes depending on the choices taken. There's no logistical reason why they couldn't have included a version of the story that reaches an ending in the first 5 minutes.
– Nuclear Wang
Jan 16 at 16:49
6
6
It's also totally Black Mirror to point out that your choice sometimes is irrelevant an there is no way out from the mess you got into.
– rbanffy
Jan 16 at 17:42
It's also totally Black Mirror to point out that your choice sometimes is irrelevant an there is no way out from the mess you got into.
– rbanffy
Jan 16 at 17:42
1
1
@Moyli - Noted and corrected. Thanks!
– Johnny Bones
Jan 16 at 19:49
@Moyli - Noted and corrected. Thanks!
– Johnny Bones
Jan 16 at 19:49
1
1
I'm really surprised that "Choose Your Own Adventure" really not a generic name. I've never read a real "Choose Your Own Adventure" book; but I always remember referring to the Goosebump ones as such.
– JMac
Jan 16 at 21:19
I'm really surprised that "Choose Your Own Adventure" really not a generic name. I've never read a real "Choose Your Own Adventure" book; but I always remember referring to the Goosebump ones as such.
– JMac
Jan 16 at 21:19
|
show 4 more comments
Dead ends highlight one of the philosophical themes of the story
One of themes of the story in Bandersnatch is that the actions in the game are not as free as you think and are sometime predetermined. In one of the paths the game develop explains that he fixed some of the bugs blocking completion of the game by simplifying the choices and giving the players "the illusion of free will" by making it look as though they had a choice when they really didn't.
The programme mirrors some of this idea in the way it sometimes seems to present the viewer with choices that don't seem to change anything (though it is not quite that simple as some of them influence later events and choices even though they don't seem to do much immediately after the original choice).
But the overall impression the view takes away is that they are not really fully in control of where the story goes and I certainly felt that I was being pushed in particular directions without really being able to control the timeline.
I assume, given the way other Black Mirror stories were written, that this slightly uneasy feeling is exactly what the writers intended. It is a clever way to manipulate the feeling of the viewer by making him share some of the experiences of the game developer in the story who has to confront the fact he isn't really in control of his own life.
add a comment |
Dead ends highlight one of the philosophical themes of the story
One of themes of the story in Bandersnatch is that the actions in the game are not as free as you think and are sometime predetermined. In one of the paths the game develop explains that he fixed some of the bugs blocking completion of the game by simplifying the choices and giving the players "the illusion of free will" by making it look as though they had a choice when they really didn't.
The programme mirrors some of this idea in the way it sometimes seems to present the viewer with choices that don't seem to change anything (though it is not quite that simple as some of them influence later events and choices even though they don't seem to do much immediately after the original choice).
But the overall impression the view takes away is that they are not really fully in control of where the story goes and I certainly felt that I was being pushed in particular directions without really being able to control the timeline.
I assume, given the way other Black Mirror stories were written, that this slightly uneasy feeling is exactly what the writers intended. It is a clever way to manipulate the feeling of the viewer by making him share some of the experiences of the game developer in the story who has to confront the fact he isn't really in control of his own life.
add a comment |
Dead ends highlight one of the philosophical themes of the story
One of themes of the story in Bandersnatch is that the actions in the game are not as free as you think and are sometime predetermined. In one of the paths the game develop explains that he fixed some of the bugs blocking completion of the game by simplifying the choices and giving the players "the illusion of free will" by making it look as though they had a choice when they really didn't.
The programme mirrors some of this idea in the way it sometimes seems to present the viewer with choices that don't seem to change anything (though it is not quite that simple as some of them influence later events and choices even though they don't seem to do much immediately after the original choice).
But the overall impression the view takes away is that they are not really fully in control of where the story goes and I certainly felt that I was being pushed in particular directions without really being able to control the timeline.
I assume, given the way other Black Mirror stories were written, that this slightly uneasy feeling is exactly what the writers intended. It is a clever way to manipulate the feeling of the viewer by making him share some of the experiences of the game developer in the story who has to confront the fact he isn't really in control of his own life.
Dead ends highlight one of the philosophical themes of the story
One of themes of the story in Bandersnatch is that the actions in the game are not as free as you think and are sometime predetermined. In one of the paths the game develop explains that he fixed some of the bugs blocking completion of the game by simplifying the choices and giving the players "the illusion of free will" by making it look as though they had a choice when they really didn't.
The programme mirrors some of this idea in the way it sometimes seems to present the viewer with choices that don't seem to change anything (though it is not quite that simple as some of them influence later events and choices even though they don't seem to do much immediately after the original choice).
But the overall impression the view takes away is that they are not really fully in control of where the story goes and I certainly felt that I was being pushed in particular directions without really being able to control the timeline.
I assume, given the way other Black Mirror stories were written, that this slightly uneasy feeling is exactly what the writers intended. It is a clever way to manipulate the feeling of the viewer by making him share some of the experiences of the game developer in the story who has to confront the fact he isn't really in control of his own life.
answered Jan 18 at 18:00
matt_blackmatt_black
12.8k1667139
12.8k1667139
add a comment |
add a comment |
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– Napoleon Wilson♦
Jan 18 at 18:06