Proving a set to be countable

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A set $S = leftlbrace left( x, y right) vert x^2 + y^2 = dfrac1n^2, text where n in mathbbN text and either x in mathbbQ text or y in mathbbQ rightrbrace$ is given. I need to prove that this is countable.



I have tried looking for a bijection $f: mathbbQ rightarrow S$ as $f left( x right) = left( x, y right)$ where $y$ is a fixed real number such that the property of the set is satisfied.



Clearly, this function is not even a surjection.



How should we define our bijection so that we prove $S$ is countable?










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    A set $S = leftlbrace left( x, y right) vert x^2 + y^2 = dfrac1n^2, text where n in mathbbN text and either x in mathbbQ text or y in mathbbQ rightrbrace$ is given. I need to prove that this is countable.



    I have tried looking for a bijection $f: mathbbQ rightarrow S$ as $f left( x right) = left( x, y right)$ where $y$ is a fixed real number such that the property of the set is satisfied.



    Clearly, this function is not even a surjection.



    How should we define our bijection so that we prove $S$ is countable?










    share|cite|improve this question
























      3












      3








      3







      A set $S = leftlbrace left( x, y right) vert x^2 + y^2 = dfrac1n^2, text where n in mathbbN text and either x in mathbbQ text or y in mathbbQ rightrbrace$ is given. I need to prove that this is countable.



      I have tried looking for a bijection $f: mathbbQ rightarrow S$ as $f left( x right) = left( x, y right)$ where $y$ is a fixed real number such that the property of the set is satisfied.



      Clearly, this function is not even a surjection.



      How should we define our bijection so that we prove $S$ is countable?










      share|cite|improve this question













      A set $S = leftlbrace left( x, y right) vert x^2 + y^2 = dfrac1n^2, text where n in mathbbN text and either x in mathbbQ text or y in mathbbQ rightrbrace$ is given. I need to prove that this is countable.



      I have tried looking for a bijection $f: mathbbQ rightarrow S$ as $f left( x right) = left( x, y right)$ where $y$ is a fixed real number such that the property of the set is satisfied.



      Clearly, this function is not even a surjection.



      How should we define our bijection so that we prove $S$ is countable?







      real-analysis elementary-set-theory






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      asked Dec 14 at 4:37









      Aniruddha Deshmukh

      899418




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          2 Answers
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          If you index on $x$ and $n$, you can do the following. Let
          $$
          E_n=mathbb Qcap left[-tfrac1n^2,tfrac1n^2right].
          $$

          This sets $E_n$ are countable, because they are subsets of $mathbb Q$.
          Then $S=S_1cup S_2$, where
          $$
          S_1=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_xin E_nleftleft(x,sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)rightcupleftleft(x,-sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)right
          $$

          $$
          S_2=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_yin E_nleftleft(sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)rightcupleftleft(-sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)right
          $$

          We can map this to a subset of $(mathbb Ntimesmathbb Qtimes1,2)^2$. And this last set is countable, so $S$ is countable.



          The key fact is that subsets of countable sets are countable, and that finite cartesian products of countable sets are countable.






          share|cite|improve this answer






















          • The way you have written the union for $S$, only takes into consideration when $x$ is rational and $y$ can be anything. What if it goes the other way round?
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 4:52










          • Or do you want to say that the final mapping would be $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, x, 1 right)$ if $x$ is rational and $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, y, 2 right)$ if $y$ is rational but $x$ is not.
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 4:53











          • Yes, you are right. I needed to duplicate the sets. It's done now.
            – Martin Argerami
            Dec 14 at 4:58










          • Why are we mapping it to $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)^2$? I think $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)$ should work with the mapping I defined in the comment.
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 5:00










          • I'm using the 1 and 2 to count the positive and negative roots. There is some overlapping, but it's not a big deal. The maps as you say also work, I think.
            – Martin Argerami
            Dec 14 at 5:04


















          6














          Note that $x^2=frac1n^2-y^2$ and $y^2=frac1n^2-x^2$. So if $y$ is rational, then $x^2$ is rational as well, and likewise for $y^2$ if $x$ is rational.



          Therefore you can define a surjection from the collection of all roots of rational numbers (which also includes all the rationals). So now comes the question, can you prove that this set is countable?






          share|cite|improve this answer




















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            2 Answers
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            active

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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

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            4














            If you index on $x$ and $n$, you can do the following. Let
            $$
            E_n=mathbb Qcap left[-tfrac1n^2,tfrac1n^2right].
            $$

            This sets $E_n$ are countable, because they are subsets of $mathbb Q$.
            Then $S=S_1cup S_2$, where
            $$
            S_1=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_xin E_nleftleft(x,sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)rightcupleftleft(x,-sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)right
            $$

            $$
            S_2=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_yin E_nleftleft(sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)rightcupleftleft(-sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)right
            $$

            We can map this to a subset of $(mathbb Ntimesmathbb Qtimes1,2)^2$. And this last set is countable, so $S$ is countable.



            The key fact is that subsets of countable sets are countable, and that finite cartesian products of countable sets are countable.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • The way you have written the union for $S$, only takes into consideration when $x$ is rational and $y$ can be anything. What if it goes the other way round?
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:52










            • Or do you want to say that the final mapping would be $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, x, 1 right)$ if $x$ is rational and $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, y, 2 right)$ if $y$ is rational but $x$ is not.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:53











            • Yes, you are right. I needed to duplicate the sets. It's done now.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 4:58










            • Why are we mapping it to $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)^2$? I think $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)$ should work with the mapping I defined in the comment.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 5:00










            • I'm using the 1 and 2 to count the positive and negative roots. There is some overlapping, but it's not a big deal. The maps as you say also work, I think.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 5:04















            4














            If you index on $x$ and $n$, you can do the following. Let
            $$
            E_n=mathbb Qcap left[-tfrac1n^2,tfrac1n^2right].
            $$

            This sets $E_n$ are countable, because they are subsets of $mathbb Q$.
            Then $S=S_1cup S_2$, where
            $$
            S_1=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_xin E_nleftleft(x,sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)rightcupleftleft(x,-sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)right
            $$

            $$
            S_2=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_yin E_nleftleft(sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)rightcupleftleft(-sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)right
            $$

            We can map this to a subset of $(mathbb Ntimesmathbb Qtimes1,2)^2$. And this last set is countable, so $S$ is countable.



            The key fact is that subsets of countable sets are countable, and that finite cartesian products of countable sets are countable.






            share|cite|improve this answer






















            • The way you have written the union for $S$, only takes into consideration when $x$ is rational and $y$ can be anything. What if it goes the other way round?
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:52










            • Or do you want to say that the final mapping would be $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, x, 1 right)$ if $x$ is rational and $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, y, 2 right)$ if $y$ is rational but $x$ is not.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:53











            • Yes, you are right. I needed to duplicate the sets. It's done now.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 4:58










            • Why are we mapping it to $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)^2$? I think $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)$ should work with the mapping I defined in the comment.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 5:00










            • I'm using the 1 and 2 to count the positive and negative roots. There is some overlapping, but it's not a big deal. The maps as you say also work, I think.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 5:04













            4












            4








            4






            If you index on $x$ and $n$, you can do the following. Let
            $$
            E_n=mathbb Qcap left[-tfrac1n^2,tfrac1n^2right].
            $$

            This sets $E_n$ are countable, because they are subsets of $mathbb Q$.
            Then $S=S_1cup S_2$, where
            $$
            S_1=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_xin E_nleftleft(x,sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)rightcupleftleft(x,-sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)right
            $$

            $$
            S_2=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_yin E_nleftleft(sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)rightcupleftleft(-sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)right
            $$

            We can map this to a subset of $(mathbb Ntimesmathbb Qtimes1,2)^2$. And this last set is countable, so $S$ is countable.



            The key fact is that subsets of countable sets are countable, and that finite cartesian products of countable sets are countable.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            If you index on $x$ and $n$, you can do the following. Let
            $$
            E_n=mathbb Qcap left[-tfrac1n^2,tfrac1n^2right].
            $$

            This sets $E_n$ are countable, because they are subsets of $mathbb Q$.
            Then $S=S_1cup S_2$, where
            $$
            S_1=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_xin E_nleftleft(x,sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)rightcupleftleft(x,-sqrttfrac1n^2-x^2right)right
            $$

            $$
            S_2=bigcup_ninmathbb Nbigcup_yin E_nleftleft(sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)rightcupleftleft(-sqrttfrac1n^2-y^2,yright)right
            $$

            We can map this to a subset of $(mathbb Ntimesmathbb Qtimes1,2)^2$. And this last set is countable, so $S$ is countable.



            The key fact is that subsets of countable sets are countable, and that finite cartesian products of countable sets are countable.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 14 at 12:15









            Mutantoe

            560411




            560411










            answered Dec 14 at 4:50









            Martin Argerami

            123k1176174




            123k1176174











            • The way you have written the union for $S$, only takes into consideration when $x$ is rational and $y$ can be anything. What if it goes the other way round?
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:52










            • Or do you want to say that the final mapping would be $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, x, 1 right)$ if $x$ is rational and $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, y, 2 right)$ if $y$ is rational but $x$ is not.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:53











            • Yes, you are right. I needed to duplicate the sets. It's done now.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 4:58










            • Why are we mapping it to $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)^2$? I think $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)$ should work with the mapping I defined in the comment.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 5:00










            • I'm using the 1 and 2 to count the positive and negative roots. There is some overlapping, but it's not a big deal. The maps as you say also work, I think.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 5:04
















            • The way you have written the union for $S$, only takes into consideration when $x$ is rational and $y$ can be anything. What if it goes the other way round?
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:52










            • Or do you want to say that the final mapping would be $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, x, 1 right)$ if $x$ is rational and $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, y, 2 right)$ if $y$ is rational but $x$ is not.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 4:53











            • Yes, you are right. I needed to duplicate the sets. It's done now.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 4:58










            • Why are we mapping it to $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)^2$? I think $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)$ should work with the mapping I defined in the comment.
              – Aniruddha Deshmukh
              Dec 14 at 5:00










            • I'm using the 1 and 2 to count the positive and negative roots. There is some overlapping, but it's not a big deal. The maps as you say also work, I think.
              – Martin Argerami
              Dec 14 at 5:04















            The way you have written the union for $S$, only takes into consideration when $x$ is rational and $y$ can be anything. What if it goes the other way round?
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 4:52




            The way you have written the union for $S$, only takes into consideration when $x$ is rational and $y$ can be anything. What if it goes the other way round?
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 4:52












            Or do you want to say that the final mapping would be $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, x, 1 right)$ if $x$ is rational and $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, y, 2 right)$ if $y$ is rational but $x$ is not.
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 4:53





            Or do you want to say that the final mapping would be $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, x, 1 right)$ if $x$ is rational and $left( x, y right) mapsto left( n, y, 2 right)$ if $y$ is rational but $x$ is not.
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 4:53













            Yes, you are right. I needed to duplicate the sets. It's done now.
            – Martin Argerami
            Dec 14 at 4:58




            Yes, you are right. I needed to duplicate the sets. It's done now.
            – Martin Argerami
            Dec 14 at 4:58












            Why are we mapping it to $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)^2$? I think $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)$ should work with the mapping I defined in the comment.
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 5:00




            Why are we mapping it to $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)^2$? I think $left( mathbbN times mathbbQ times leftlbrace 1, 2 rightrbrace right)$ should work with the mapping I defined in the comment.
            – Aniruddha Deshmukh
            Dec 14 at 5:00












            I'm using the 1 and 2 to count the positive and negative roots. There is some overlapping, but it's not a big deal. The maps as you say also work, I think.
            – Martin Argerami
            Dec 14 at 5:04




            I'm using the 1 and 2 to count the positive and negative roots. There is some overlapping, but it's not a big deal. The maps as you say also work, I think.
            – Martin Argerami
            Dec 14 at 5:04











            6














            Note that $x^2=frac1n^2-y^2$ and $y^2=frac1n^2-x^2$. So if $y$ is rational, then $x^2$ is rational as well, and likewise for $y^2$ if $x$ is rational.



            Therefore you can define a surjection from the collection of all roots of rational numbers (which also includes all the rationals). So now comes the question, can you prove that this set is countable?






            share|cite|improve this answer

























              6














              Note that $x^2=frac1n^2-y^2$ and $y^2=frac1n^2-x^2$. So if $y$ is rational, then $x^2$ is rational as well, and likewise for $y^2$ if $x$ is rational.



              Therefore you can define a surjection from the collection of all roots of rational numbers (which also includes all the rationals). So now comes the question, can you prove that this set is countable?






              share|cite|improve this answer























                6












                6








                6






                Note that $x^2=frac1n^2-y^2$ and $y^2=frac1n^2-x^2$. So if $y$ is rational, then $x^2$ is rational as well, and likewise for $y^2$ if $x$ is rational.



                Therefore you can define a surjection from the collection of all roots of rational numbers (which also includes all the rationals). So now comes the question, can you prove that this set is countable?






                share|cite|improve this answer












                Note that $x^2=frac1n^2-y^2$ and $y^2=frac1n^2-x^2$. So if $y$ is rational, then $x^2$ is rational as well, and likewise for $y^2$ if $x$ is rational.



                Therefore you can define a surjection from the collection of all roots of rational numbers (which also includes all the rationals). So now comes the question, can you prove that this set is countable?







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Dec 14 at 4:46









                Asaf Karagila

                301k32423755




                301k32423755



























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