EM waves and cable shields

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After reading about cable screens to prevent electric field interference such as:




“Most of our audio cables are screened, and this does a decent job in
keeping the Radio Frequencies at bay, but doesn’t do anything much to
keep out the signals that we can hear, because these attack our audio
largely by long wave length electromagnetic fields which go straight
through the expensive foil wrap and braided screen protection around
our cables.”




How can low frequency interference such as 50/60Hz long wave due to mains electricity pass through the a coaxial cable shield but not high freq. EM waves like radio waves?










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    up vote
    2
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    favorite












    After reading about cable screens to prevent electric field interference such as:




    “Most of our audio cables are screened, and this does a decent job in
    keeping the Radio Frequencies at bay, but doesn’t do anything much to
    keep out the signals that we can hear, because these attack our audio
    largely by long wave length electromagnetic fields which go straight
    through the expensive foil wrap and braided screen protection around
    our cables.”




    How can low frequency interference such as 50/60Hz long wave due to mains electricity pass through the a coaxial cable shield but not high freq. EM waves like radio waves?










    share|cite|improve this question







    New contributor




    newage2000 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.





















      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      2
      down vote

      favorite











      After reading about cable screens to prevent electric field interference such as:




      “Most of our audio cables are screened, and this does a decent job in
      keeping the Radio Frequencies at bay, but doesn’t do anything much to
      keep out the signals that we can hear, because these attack our audio
      largely by long wave length electromagnetic fields which go straight
      through the expensive foil wrap and braided screen protection around
      our cables.”




      How can low frequency interference such as 50/60Hz long wave due to mains electricity pass through the a coaxial cable shield but not high freq. EM waves like radio waves?










      share|cite|improve this question







      New contributor




      newage2000 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      After reading about cable screens to prevent electric field interference such as:




      “Most of our audio cables are screened, and this does a decent job in
      keeping the Radio Frequencies at bay, but doesn’t do anything much to
      keep out the signals that we can hear, because these attack our audio
      largely by long wave length electromagnetic fields which go straight
      through the expensive foil wrap and braided screen protection around
      our cables.”




      How can low frequency interference such as 50/60Hz long wave due to mains electricity pass through the a coaxial cable shield but not high freq. EM waves like radio waves?







      electromagnetic-radiation






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          3 Answers
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          active

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          4
          down vote













          After having used high-impedance shielded cable runs for audio and live on-stage performance for 48 years, I can say from direct experience that the assertion you referenced is wrong. in fact the primary purpose of shielded cables in audio apps is to block



          1. radiated interference from things like fluorescent light fixtures and some neon bulbs (60Hz plus higher harmonics),

          2. radiated interference from silicon-controlled rectifiers ("light dimmers", also 60Hz plus higher harmonics) and

          3. crosstalk from adjacent audio cables carrying signals to and from speakers, amplifiers and preamplifiers (in the full audio range).

          in fact, the way you detect a shielding fault when it occurs is a sudden and very audible increase in the amount of audible hum and buzz getting into the signal path.



          The RF shielding effect is important too, but only if you are in the vicinity of a large radio transmitting antenna or if your upstairs neighbor is a poorly-educated CB or ham radio enthusiast.






          share|cite|improve this answer






















          • At 60Hz there is no wave there is electric field or magnetic field. At that freq the interference is not EM wva but the field. You need a huge antenna to receive 60Hz as a wave.
            – newage2000
            2 days ago






          • 1




            no, you don't. this is easily demonstrated with a guitar amp and an electric guitar with unshielded pickups, feeding an oscilloscope.
            – niels nielsen
            2 days ago






          • 1




            I am a ham radio operator. we call any signal carried by electromagnetic waves (which are time-varying electromagnetic fields) "radiation".
            – niels nielsen
            2 days ago






          • 1




            to get a good impedance match between the antenna and free space, that is true. you do not need a good impedance match to radiate. a poor match will work.
            – niels nielsen
            2 days ago






          • 1




            @newage2000 That's one helpful way to think in some cases for sure, but even for evanescent waves of any wavelength, it's also okay to call it "radiation". It may not really radiate in a vacuum at infinity, but if stuff picks it up, receives energy from it, it's okay to call it radiation. 1, 2, 3
            – uhoh
            yesterday

















          up vote
          2
          down vote













          The skin effect means that fields of high frequency penetrate less deep into conductors than fields of low frequency.






          share|cite|improve this answer



























            up vote
            1
            down vote













            You can radiate 60Hz EM quite easily at 120v and 10amps for example, but as Nielsen shows in many instances it is from ac switching devices that actually produce a white noise (composed of many high frequencies) similar to a spark noise (but not a spark). Most home speakers do not use shielded cable, it's only on the inputs from dvd players etc where coax is present, and this prevents rf as well as 60Hz. If these input cables get too long you can pick up the 60Hz and the white noise which when amplified is bad. I have no experience in stage wiring but these cables can be long which would help pickup even on speaker cables, also there may me a mix of speaker cables and microphone cables that could cross talk. Also many times the white noise gets carried on the powervlines directly into amps.






            share|cite|improve this answer




















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              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes








              3 Answers
              3






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              4
              down vote













              After having used high-impedance shielded cable runs for audio and live on-stage performance for 48 years, I can say from direct experience that the assertion you referenced is wrong. in fact the primary purpose of shielded cables in audio apps is to block



              1. radiated interference from things like fluorescent light fixtures and some neon bulbs (60Hz plus higher harmonics),

              2. radiated interference from silicon-controlled rectifiers ("light dimmers", also 60Hz plus higher harmonics) and

              3. crosstalk from adjacent audio cables carrying signals to and from speakers, amplifiers and preamplifiers (in the full audio range).

              in fact, the way you detect a shielding fault when it occurs is a sudden and very audible increase in the amount of audible hum and buzz getting into the signal path.



              The RF shielding effect is important too, but only if you are in the vicinity of a large radio transmitting antenna or if your upstairs neighbor is a poorly-educated CB or ham radio enthusiast.






              share|cite|improve this answer






















              • At 60Hz there is no wave there is electric field or magnetic field. At that freq the interference is not EM wva but the field. You need a huge antenna to receive 60Hz as a wave.
                – newage2000
                2 days ago






              • 1




                no, you don't. this is easily demonstrated with a guitar amp and an electric guitar with unshielded pickups, feeding an oscilloscope.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                I am a ham radio operator. we call any signal carried by electromagnetic waves (which are time-varying electromagnetic fields) "radiation".
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                to get a good impedance match between the antenna and free space, that is true. you do not need a good impedance match to radiate. a poor match will work.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                @newage2000 That's one helpful way to think in some cases for sure, but even for evanescent waves of any wavelength, it's also okay to call it "radiation". It may not really radiate in a vacuum at infinity, but if stuff picks it up, receives energy from it, it's okay to call it radiation. 1, 2, 3
                – uhoh
                yesterday














              up vote
              4
              down vote













              After having used high-impedance shielded cable runs for audio and live on-stage performance for 48 years, I can say from direct experience that the assertion you referenced is wrong. in fact the primary purpose of shielded cables in audio apps is to block



              1. radiated interference from things like fluorescent light fixtures and some neon bulbs (60Hz plus higher harmonics),

              2. radiated interference from silicon-controlled rectifiers ("light dimmers", also 60Hz plus higher harmonics) and

              3. crosstalk from adjacent audio cables carrying signals to and from speakers, amplifiers and preamplifiers (in the full audio range).

              in fact, the way you detect a shielding fault when it occurs is a sudden and very audible increase in the amount of audible hum and buzz getting into the signal path.



              The RF shielding effect is important too, but only if you are in the vicinity of a large radio transmitting antenna or if your upstairs neighbor is a poorly-educated CB or ham radio enthusiast.






              share|cite|improve this answer






















              • At 60Hz there is no wave there is electric field or magnetic field. At that freq the interference is not EM wva but the field. You need a huge antenna to receive 60Hz as a wave.
                – newage2000
                2 days ago






              • 1




                no, you don't. this is easily demonstrated with a guitar amp and an electric guitar with unshielded pickups, feeding an oscilloscope.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                I am a ham radio operator. we call any signal carried by electromagnetic waves (which are time-varying electromagnetic fields) "radiation".
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                to get a good impedance match between the antenna and free space, that is true. you do not need a good impedance match to radiate. a poor match will work.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                @newage2000 That's one helpful way to think in some cases for sure, but even for evanescent waves of any wavelength, it's also okay to call it "radiation". It may not really radiate in a vacuum at infinity, but if stuff picks it up, receives energy from it, it's okay to call it radiation. 1, 2, 3
                – uhoh
                yesterday












              up vote
              4
              down vote










              up vote
              4
              down vote









              After having used high-impedance shielded cable runs for audio and live on-stage performance for 48 years, I can say from direct experience that the assertion you referenced is wrong. in fact the primary purpose of shielded cables in audio apps is to block



              1. radiated interference from things like fluorescent light fixtures and some neon bulbs (60Hz plus higher harmonics),

              2. radiated interference from silicon-controlled rectifiers ("light dimmers", also 60Hz plus higher harmonics) and

              3. crosstalk from adjacent audio cables carrying signals to and from speakers, amplifiers and preamplifiers (in the full audio range).

              in fact, the way you detect a shielding fault when it occurs is a sudden and very audible increase in the amount of audible hum and buzz getting into the signal path.



              The RF shielding effect is important too, but only if you are in the vicinity of a large radio transmitting antenna or if your upstairs neighbor is a poorly-educated CB or ham radio enthusiast.






              share|cite|improve this answer














              After having used high-impedance shielded cable runs for audio and live on-stage performance for 48 years, I can say from direct experience that the assertion you referenced is wrong. in fact the primary purpose of shielded cables in audio apps is to block



              1. radiated interference from things like fluorescent light fixtures and some neon bulbs (60Hz plus higher harmonics),

              2. radiated interference from silicon-controlled rectifiers ("light dimmers", also 60Hz plus higher harmonics) and

              3. crosstalk from adjacent audio cables carrying signals to and from speakers, amplifiers and preamplifiers (in the full audio range).

              in fact, the way you detect a shielding fault when it occurs is a sudden and very audible increase in the amount of audible hum and buzz getting into the signal path.



              The RF shielding effect is important too, but only if you are in the vicinity of a large radio transmitting antenna or if your upstairs neighbor is a poorly-educated CB or ham radio enthusiast.







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited yesterday









              Kamil Maciorowski

              396129




              396129










              answered 2 days ago









              niels nielsen

              11.5k41834




              11.5k41834











              • At 60Hz there is no wave there is electric field or magnetic field. At that freq the interference is not EM wva but the field. You need a huge antenna to receive 60Hz as a wave.
                – newage2000
                2 days ago






              • 1




                no, you don't. this is easily demonstrated with a guitar amp and an electric guitar with unshielded pickups, feeding an oscilloscope.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                I am a ham radio operator. we call any signal carried by electromagnetic waves (which are time-varying electromagnetic fields) "radiation".
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                to get a good impedance match between the antenna and free space, that is true. you do not need a good impedance match to radiate. a poor match will work.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                @newage2000 That's one helpful way to think in some cases for sure, but even for evanescent waves of any wavelength, it's also okay to call it "radiation". It may not really radiate in a vacuum at infinity, but if stuff picks it up, receives energy from it, it's okay to call it radiation. 1, 2, 3
                – uhoh
                yesterday
















              • At 60Hz there is no wave there is electric field or magnetic field. At that freq the interference is not EM wva but the field. You need a huge antenna to receive 60Hz as a wave.
                – newage2000
                2 days ago






              • 1




                no, you don't. this is easily demonstrated with a guitar amp and an electric guitar with unshielded pickups, feeding an oscilloscope.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                I am a ham radio operator. we call any signal carried by electromagnetic waves (which are time-varying electromagnetic fields) "radiation".
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                to get a good impedance match between the antenna and free space, that is true. you do not need a good impedance match to radiate. a poor match will work.
                – niels nielsen
                2 days ago






              • 1




                @newage2000 That's one helpful way to think in some cases for sure, but even for evanescent waves of any wavelength, it's also okay to call it "radiation". It may not really radiate in a vacuum at infinity, but if stuff picks it up, receives energy from it, it's okay to call it radiation. 1, 2, 3
                – uhoh
                yesterday















              At 60Hz there is no wave there is electric field or magnetic field. At that freq the interference is not EM wva but the field. You need a huge antenna to receive 60Hz as a wave.
              – newage2000
              2 days ago




              At 60Hz there is no wave there is electric field or magnetic field. At that freq the interference is not EM wva but the field. You need a huge antenna to receive 60Hz as a wave.
              – newage2000
              2 days ago




              1




              1




              no, you don't. this is easily demonstrated with a guitar amp and an electric guitar with unshielded pickups, feeding an oscilloscope.
              – niels nielsen
              2 days ago




              no, you don't. this is easily demonstrated with a guitar amp and an electric guitar with unshielded pickups, feeding an oscilloscope.
              – niels nielsen
              2 days ago




              1




              1




              I am a ham radio operator. we call any signal carried by electromagnetic waves (which are time-varying electromagnetic fields) "radiation".
              – niels nielsen
              2 days ago




              I am a ham radio operator. we call any signal carried by electromagnetic waves (which are time-varying electromagnetic fields) "radiation".
              – niels nielsen
              2 days ago




              1




              1




              to get a good impedance match between the antenna and free space, that is true. you do not need a good impedance match to radiate. a poor match will work.
              – niels nielsen
              2 days ago




              to get a good impedance match between the antenna and free space, that is true. you do not need a good impedance match to radiate. a poor match will work.
              – niels nielsen
              2 days ago




              1




              1




              @newage2000 That's one helpful way to think in some cases for sure, but even for evanescent waves of any wavelength, it's also okay to call it "radiation". It may not really radiate in a vacuum at infinity, but if stuff picks it up, receives energy from it, it's okay to call it radiation. 1, 2, 3
              – uhoh
              yesterday




              @newage2000 That's one helpful way to think in some cases for sure, but even for evanescent waves of any wavelength, it's also okay to call it "radiation". It may not really radiate in a vacuum at infinity, but if stuff picks it up, receives energy from it, it's okay to call it radiation. 1, 2, 3
              – uhoh
              yesterday










              up vote
              2
              down vote













              The skin effect means that fields of high frequency penetrate less deep into conductors than fields of low frequency.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                The skin effect means that fields of high frequency penetrate less deep into conductors than fields of low frequency.






                share|cite|improve this answer






















                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote









                  The skin effect means that fields of high frequency penetrate less deep into conductors than fields of low frequency.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  The skin effect means that fields of high frequency penetrate less deep into conductors than fields of low frequency.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 2 days ago









                  my2cts

                  3,5362416




                  3,5362416




















                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      You can radiate 60Hz EM quite easily at 120v and 10amps for example, but as Nielsen shows in many instances it is from ac switching devices that actually produce a white noise (composed of many high frequencies) similar to a spark noise (but not a spark). Most home speakers do not use shielded cable, it's only on the inputs from dvd players etc where coax is present, and this prevents rf as well as 60Hz. If these input cables get too long you can pick up the 60Hz and the white noise which when amplified is bad. I have no experience in stage wiring but these cables can be long which would help pickup even on speaker cables, also there may me a mix of speaker cables and microphone cables that could cross talk. Also many times the white noise gets carried on the powervlines directly into amps.






                      share|cite|improve this answer
























                        up vote
                        1
                        down vote













                        You can radiate 60Hz EM quite easily at 120v and 10amps for example, but as Nielsen shows in many instances it is from ac switching devices that actually produce a white noise (composed of many high frequencies) similar to a spark noise (but not a spark). Most home speakers do not use shielded cable, it's only on the inputs from dvd players etc where coax is present, and this prevents rf as well as 60Hz. If these input cables get too long you can pick up the 60Hz and the white noise which when amplified is bad. I have no experience in stage wiring but these cables can be long which would help pickup even on speaker cables, also there may me a mix of speaker cables and microphone cables that could cross talk. Also many times the white noise gets carried on the powervlines directly into amps.






                        share|cite|improve this answer






















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote









                          You can radiate 60Hz EM quite easily at 120v and 10amps for example, but as Nielsen shows in many instances it is from ac switching devices that actually produce a white noise (composed of many high frequencies) similar to a spark noise (but not a spark). Most home speakers do not use shielded cable, it's only on the inputs from dvd players etc where coax is present, and this prevents rf as well as 60Hz. If these input cables get too long you can pick up the 60Hz and the white noise which when amplified is bad. I have no experience in stage wiring but these cables can be long which would help pickup even on speaker cables, also there may me a mix of speaker cables and microphone cables that could cross talk. Also many times the white noise gets carried on the powervlines directly into amps.






                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          You can radiate 60Hz EM quite easily at 120v and 10amps for example, but as Nielsen shows in many instances it is from ac switching devices that actually produce a white noise (composed of many high frequencies) similar to a spark noise (but not a spark). Most home speakers do not use shielded cable, it's only on the inputs from dvd players etc where coax is present, and this prevents rf as well as 60Hz. If these input cables get too long you can pick up the 60Hz and the white noise which when amplified is bad. I have no experience in stage wiring but these cables can be long which would help pickup even on speaker cables, also there may me a mix of speaker cables and microphone cables that could cross talk. Also many times the white noise gets carried on the powervlines directly into amps.







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered 2 days ago









                          PhysicsDave

                          59426




                          59426




















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