Three coins are tossed. If one of them shows a tails, what is the probability that all three coins show tails? [duplicate]

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  • Three fair coins were tossed. Find the probability that they all fell heads, given that at least one coin fell heads? [closed]

    4 answers



I tried $1cdotfrac12cdotfrac12$ where $1$ is the probability for the first coin that shows tails, and $frac12$ is the probability for the other two coins that can be heads or tails.



Where am I wrong?










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marked as duplicate by Lord Shark the Unknown, José Carlos Santos, Xander Henderson, Did probability
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This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.










  • 12




    A priori all $8$ possible outcomes are equally likely. Your condition rules out one of them. Therefore...
    – lulu
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 1




    Is this a statistics question: e.g. all coins are crooked in the same way to give tails with some as yet unknown probability $p$ and the fact that the first lands on tails gives you some information about what $p$ is? Or is this a mathematics question where it is given on forehand that all three coins are fair?
    – Vincent
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 22




    Rather like the "two sons/daughters" problem, the answer depends on how you find out one coin shows tails: do you see the coin, or something else
    – Henry
    Aug 21 at 13:21







  • 1




    In other words, it all depends on whether you know which coin is tails.
    – Kyle Delaney
    Aug 23 at 22:45














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  • Three fair coins were tossed. Find the probability that they all fell heads, given that at least one coin fell heads? [closed]

    4 answers



I tried $1cdotfrac12cdotfrac12$ where $1$ is the probability for the first coin that shows tails, and $frac12$ is the probability for the other two coins that can be heads or tails.



Where am I wrong?










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marked as duplicate by Lord Shark the Unknown, José Carlos Santos, Xander Henderson, Did probability
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Aug 23 at 7:40


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.










  • 12




    A priori all $8$ possible outcomes are equally likely. Your condition rules out one of them. Therefore...
    – lulu
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 1




    Is this a statistics question: e.g. all coins are crooked in the same way to give tails with some as yet unknown probability $p$ and the fact that the first lands on tails gives you some information about what $p$ is? Or is this a mathematics question where it is given on forehand that all three coins are fair?
    – Vincent
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 22




    Rather like the "two sons/daughters" problem, the answer depends on how you find out one coin shows tails: do you see the coin, or something else
    – Henry
    Aug 21 at 13:21







  • 1




    In other words, it all depends on whether you know which coin is tails.
    – Kyle Delaney
    Aug 23 at 22:45












up vote
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up vote
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8






This question already has an answer here:



  • Three fair coins were tossed. Find the probability that they all fell heads, given that at least one coin fell heads? [closed]

    4 answers



I tried $1cdotfrac12cdotfrac12$ where $1$ is the probability for the first coin that shows tails, and $frac12$ is the probability for the other two coins that can be heads or tails.



Where am I wrong?










share|cite|improve this question
















This question already has an answer here:



  • Three fair coins were tossed. Find the probability that they all fell heads, given that at least one coin fell heads? [closed]

    4 answers



I tried $1cdotfrac12cdotfrac12$ where $1$ is the probability for the first coin that shows tails, and $frac12$ is the probability for the other two coins that can be heads or tails.



Where am I wrong?





This question already has an answer here:



  • Three fair coins were tossed. Find the probability that they all fell heads, given that at least one coin fell heads? [closed]

    4 answers







probability






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edited Aug 22 at 19:40









Daniel Buck

2,6451625




2,6451625










asked Aug 21 at 13:18









user3508140

19026




19026




marked as duplicate by Lord Shark the Unknown, José Carlos Santos, Xander Henderson, Did probability
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Aug 23 at 7:40


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.









  • 12




    A priori all $8$ possible outcomes are equally likely. Your condition rules out one of them. Therefore...
    – lulu
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 1




    Is this a statistics question: e.g. all coins are crooked in the same way to give tails with some as yet unknown probability $p$ and the fact that the first lands on tails gives you some information about what $p$ is? Or is this a mathematics question where it is given on forehand that all three coins are fair?
    – Vincent
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 22




    Rather like the "two sons/daughters" problem, the answer depends on how you find out one coin shows tails: do you see the coin, or something else
    – Henry
    Aug 21 at 13:21







  • 1




    In other words, it all depends on whether you know which coin is tails.
    – Kyle Delaney
    Aug 23 at 22:45












  • 12




    A priori all $8$ possible outcomes are equally likely. Your condition rules out one of them. Therefore...
    – lulu
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 1




    Is this a statistics question: e.g. all coins are crooked in the same way to give tails with some as yet unknown probability $p$ and the fact that the first lands on tails gives you some information about what $p$ is? Or is this a mathematics question where it is given on forehand that all three coins are fair?
    – Vincent
    Aug 21 at 13:21






  • 22




    Rather like the "two sons/daughters" problem, the answer depends on how you find out one coin shows tails: do you see the coin, or something else
    – Henry
    Aug 21 at 13:21







  • 1




    In other words, it all depends on whether you know which coin is tails.
    – Kyle Delaney
    Aug 23 at 22:45







12




12




A priori all $8$ possible outcomes are equally likely. Your condition rules out one of them. Therefore...
– lulu
Aug 21 at 13:21




A priori all $8$ possible outcomes are equally likely. Your condition rules out one of them. Therefore...
– lulu
Aug 21 at 13:21




1




1




Is this a statistics question: e.g. all coins are crooked in the same way to give tails with some as yet unknown probability $p$ and the fact that the first lands on tails gives you some information about what $p$ is? Or is this a mathematics question where it is given on forehand that all three coins are fair?
– Vincent
Aug 21 at 13:21




Is this a statistics question: e.g. all coins are crooked in the same way to give tails with some as yet unknown probability $p$ and the fact that the first lands on tails gives you some information about what $p$ is? Or is this a mathematics question where it is given on forehand that all three coins are fair?
– Vincent
Aug 21 at 13:21




22




22




Rather like the "two sons/daughters" problem, the answer depends on how you find out one coin shows tails: do you see the coin, or something else
– Henry
Aug 21 at 13:21





Rather like the "two sons/daughters" problem, the answer depends on how you find out one coin shows tails: do you see the coin, or something else
– Henry
Aug 21 at 13:21





1




1




In other words, it all depends on whether you know which coin is tails.
– Kyle Delaney
Aug 23 at 22:45




In other words, it all depends on whether you know which coin is tails.
– Kyle Delaney
Aug 23 at 22:45










7 Answers
7






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
102
down vote



accepted










The contrast between your interpretation and that in the other answers points out that there is an ambiguity in the wording of the question, in particular in the use of "one". You interpret it as "the first". The other answerers interpret it as "at least one". Someone might interpret it as "exactly one" in which case the answer would be 0.



To elaborate on Henry's comment: suppose the three coins are tossed but I have placed cups over them so you cannot see them.



  • If you are allowed to pick one cup and lift it, and after doing that you see the coin under that cup was tails, we are in your interpretation of the problem.

  • If I am allowed to look under the cups (but you aren't) and I tell you afterwards: 'at least one coin shows tails' then we are in the other posters answer to the problem.

  • If you pick a cup but are not allowed to look under it, and I (knowing the outcome of all three coins) lift a different cup, showing that the coin under that one is tails (and offer you to change cups even if that is irrelevant for the current question, but hey, perhaps we are in a game-show, who knows?), then you can only compute the probability of three tails under some assumptions about what is going on in my head (e.g. would I always show you heads if I had the chance?).

The important thing is that all three scenario's are consistent with the given that 'one of them shows a tails'. So in other words: the answer depends on how you interpret this given and you should go complain to the person who gave you this riddle.






share|cite|improve this answer
















  • 2




    Amazing. Thanks.
    – user3508140
    Aug 21 at 14:40






  • 4




    Why isn't it "25%"? (Since -- after knowing the value of one coin -- we're left with only two unknown coins, and the odds of two coins being tails is 25%.)
    – RonJohn
    Aug 21 at 15:50






  • 6




    That's just the point, @RonJohn: "knowing the value of one coin" is the first alternative presented in this answer, but not the other two. In the second alternative, you know only that there is at least one tails, which is different. The third can be equivalent to either of the first two, or to something else, depending, as the answer says, on how the coin whose value is shown to you is chosen.
    – John Bollinger
    Aug 21 at 18:06






  • 1




    This description suggests a variation on the Monty Hall Problem. The fact that Monty knows things you don't (heh) is central to understanding why the naïve "1/4" is incorrect. He has the freedom to choose which Let's Make A Deal door to reveal, and @Vincent has claimed the same freedom with these coins.
    – Monty Harder
    Aug 21 at 18:21







  • 2




    @user3508140 In Wildcard's example, the probability is very close to 100% that it will come up heads. The probability that the flips were randomly coming up heads every time is close to zero. The coin is likely a double-headed coin.
    – InterstellarProbe
    Aug 23 at 13:43


















up vote
31
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Here is the chart of every possible outcome where there is at least one tails:



$$beginarrayc1 & 2 & 3 \ hline H & H & T \ H & T & H \ H & T & T \ T & H & H \ T & H & T \ T & T & H \ T & T & Tendarray$$



There are 7 possibilities (each equally likely) where at least one coin is a tails. Only one of them is all tails. The probability is $$dfrac17$$






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    up vote
    12
    down vote













    Let E $=$ all three coins show tail.



    Let F $=$ one of the coins show tail.



    $E=TTT$



    $F=HHT, HTH, THH, HTT, THT, TTH, TTT$



    $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)$$ where $P(F)=dfrac78$ and $P(Ecap F)=dfrac18$



    Therefore, the probability that all the three coins show tails is $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)=dfracdfrac18dfrac78=dfrac18timesdfrac87=dfrac17$$






    share|cite|improve this answer






















    • Right, almost. If you were using only a sequence of 2 events. Even so, what's being asked is something that's more seen in reality, not an abstract concept $P(E|F)$ (the Conditional Probability), which is $P(E cap F)$, the actual probability of $TTT$
      – Dehbop
      Aug 22 at 7:42

















    up vote
    8
    down vote













    The issue is, you don't know which coin shows tails. So, let's count all the possible 3 coin tosses that include tails. In fact, there is only one combination, i.e., HHH, where there are no tails.



    So, the number of ways of getting 3 tails (1) is divided by the new total number of possibilities (8-1). So the answer is $frac17$.






    share|cite|improve this answer



























      up vote
      8
      down vote













      Answer concerning the scenario "at least one coin shows a tail".



      Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



      Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3wedge Tgeq1)P(Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3)1-P(T=0)=fracfrac12frac12frac121-frac12frac12frac12=frac17$$




      Answer concerning the scenario "exactly one coin shows a tail".



      Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



      Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid T=1)=fracP(T=3wedge T=1)P(T=1)=fracP(varnothing)P(T=1)=frac0P(T=1)=0$$




      Answer concerning the scenario "the first coin shows a tail".



      Here I refer to your own answer. The probability then equals indeed $1cdotfrac12frac12=frac14$ and your reasoning is correct if this is the aimed scenario (I have serious doubts that it is).






      share|cite|improve this answer





























        up vote
        4
        down vote













        Let me work through your reasoning and demonstrate exactly why it doesn't work.



        Just now, I asked my friend to flip 3 coins, one at a time. I then asked her if at least one of the coins came up tails. She said yes.



        What's the probability that all three coins came up tails?



        Define $A$ as the first coin which came up tails. Define $B$ as the first coin which is not $A$, and then define $C$ has the remaining coin.



        If I make your reasoning more explicit, it says something like:




        The probability that $A$ is tails, $P(A = T)$, is $1$. The remaining two coins are equally likely to be heads or tails, so $P(B = T) = 1/2$ and $P(C = T) = 1/2$. Finally, the three coins are independent, so the probability that all three coins are tails is the product of these: $P(A = T, B = T, C = T) = 1 cdot 1/2 cdot 1/2 = 1/4$.




        However, this reasoning isn't correct. We have defined $B$ in an "unfair" way, so that $B$ is actually more likely to be heads than tails.



        (What's so unfair about the definition of $B$? If the first coin comes up heads, then $B$ comes up heads, because, according to our definition, $B$ is the first coin. But if the first coin comes up tails, $B$ may come up heads anyway.)



        We can see the actual probabilities of $B = T$ and $C = T$ by writing out the seven possible outcomes (all of which are equally likely):



        • $HHT$: $B = H$, $C = H$

        • $HTH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

        • $HTT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

        • $THH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

        • $THT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

        • $TTH$: $B = T$, $C = H$

        • $TTT$: $B = T$, $C = T$

        By looking at this table, we can see that $P(B = T) = 2/7$ and $P(C = T) = 3/7$. The two events aren't independent, either: $P(B = T)P(C = T) = 6/49$, whereas $P(B = T, C = T) = 1/7 = 7/49$.






        share|cite|improve this answer



























          up vote
          -6
          down vote













          First, as opposed to everyone else, I will show the possibilities with only varying the last 2 toss:



          A (listed here just for the sake of demonstration):



          $HHH$

          $HHT$

          $HTH$

          $HTT$



          B:



          $THH$

          $THT$

          $TTH$

          $TTT$



          We only consider B because the first toss is DETERMINED & as you can see the possibilities are only 4, not 8; leading to $P(TTT) = 1/4$. It agrees with the initial intuition that, despite the efforts of these other users, is correct.



          Now, some people are invoking Conditional Probability as what's being asked. I would have to say that what's being asked is something more concrete as $P(TTT) = 1/4$

          & the confusion of Conditional Probability being asked for is because of the shortcomings of natural languages.




          EDIT:

          Another simple comment. I just realized this, but even asking for a Conditional Probability (I still assert is not what's being asked) CAN virtually be the same answer. $fracP(X1 = T cap TTT)P(X1 = T)$ where X1 is the first toss, as long as the conditional is $P(X1 = T)$, seeing that $P(X1 = T) = 1$. This is STILL because all possibilities in consideration is B. Won't work if the conditional is $P(TTT)$





          I'd say these are Math & Actuarial Science TAs that are posting these questions & answers, as they are VERY familiar with what I'd call "verbal/logical disconnect", specially seen in Math & Stats.






          share|cite|improve this answer






















          • YES! >>> 'If one of them shows (a) tails'.
            – Lamar Latrell
            Aug 22 at 10:49







          • 9




            Wait a minute...what part of the other answers have "no integrity". Please justify this rather random accusation.
            – Rushabh Mehta
            Aug 22 at 12:08

















          7 Answers
          7






          active

          oldest

          votes








          7 Answers
          7






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          102
          down vote



          accepted










          The contrast between your interpretation and that in the other answers points out that there is an ambiguity in the wording of the question, in particular in the use of "one". You interpret it as "the first". The other answerers interpret it as "at least one". Someone might interpret it as "exactly one" in which case the answer would be 0.



          To elaborate on Henry's comment: suppose the three coins are tossed but I have placed cups over them so you cannot see them.



          • If you are allowed to pick one cup and lift it, and after doing that you see the coin under that cup was tails, we are in your interpretation of the problem.

          • If I am allowed to look under the cups (but you aren't) and I tell you afterwards: 'at least one coin shows tails' then we are in the other posters answer to the problem.

          • If you pick a cup but are not allowed to look under it, and I (knowing the outcome of all three coins) lift a different cup, showing that the coin under that one is tails (and offer you to change cups even if that is irrelevant for the current question, but hey, perhaps we are in a game-show, who knows?), then you can only compute the probability of three tails under some assumptions about what is going on in my head (e.g. would I always show you heads if I had the chance?).

          The important thing is that all three scenario's are consistent with the given that 'one of them shows a tails'. So in other words: the answer depends on how you interpret this given and you should go complain to the person who gave you this riddle.






          share|cite|improve this answer
















          • 2




            Amazing. Thanks.
            – user3508140
            Aug 21 at 14:40






          • 4




            Why isn't it "25%"? (Since -- after knowing the value of one coin -- we're left with only two unknown coins, and the odds of two coins being tails is 25%.)
            – RonJohn
            Aug 21 at 15:50






          • 6




            That's just the point, @RonJohn: "knowing the value of one coin" is the first alternative presented in this answer, but not the other two. In the second alternative, you know only that there is at least one tails, which is different. The third can be equivalent to either of the first two, or to something else, depending, as the answer says, on how the coin whose value is shown to you is chosen.
            – John Bollinger
            Aug 21 at 18:06






          • 1




            This description suggests a variation on the Monty Hall Problem. The fact that Monty knows things you don't (heh) is central to understanding why the naïve "1/4" is incorrect. He has the freedom to choose which Let's Make A Deal door to reveal, and @Vincent has claimed the same freedom with these coins.
            – Monty Harder
            Aug 21 at 18:21







          • 2




            @user3508140 In Wildcard's example, the probability is very close to 100% that it will come up heads. The probability that the flips were randomly coming up heads every time is close to zero. The coin is likely a double-headed coin.
            – InterstellarProbe
            Aug 23 at 13:43















          up vote
          102
          down vote



          accepted










          The contrast between your interpretation and that in the other answers points out that there is an ambiguity in the wording of the question, in particular in the use of "one". You interpret it as "the first". The other answerers interpret it as "at least one". Someone might interpret it as "exactly one" in which case the answer would be 0.



          To elaborate on Henry's comment: suppose the three coins are tossed but I have placed cups over them so you cannot see them.



          • If you are allowed to pick one cup and lift it, and after doing that you see the coin under that cup was tails, we are in your interpretation of the problem.

          • If I am allowed to look under the cups (but you aren't) and I tell you afterwards: 'at least one coin shows tails' then we are in the other posters answer to the problem.

          • If you pick a cup but are not allowed to look under it, and I (knowing the outcome of all three coins) lift a different cup, showing that the coin under that one is tails (and offer you to change cups even if that is irrelevant for the current question, but hey, perhaps we are in a game-show, who knows?), then you can only compute the probability of three tails under some assumptions about what is going on in my head (e.g. would I always show you heads if I had the chance?).

          The important thing is that all three scenario's are consistent with the given that 'one of them shows a tails'. So in other words: the answer depends on how you interpret this given and you should go complain to the person who gave you this riddle.






          share|cite|improve this answer
















          • 2




            Amazing. Thanks.
            – user3508140
            Aug 21 at 14:40






          • 4




            Why isn't it "25%"? (Since -- after knowing the value of one coin -- we're left with only two unknown coins, and the odds of two coins being tails is 25%.)
            – RonJohn
            Aug 21 at 15:50






          • 6




            That's just the point, @RonJohn: "knowing the value of one coin" is the first alternative presented in this answer, but not the other two. In the second alternative, you know only that there is at least one tails, which is different. The third can be equivalent to either of the first two, or to something else, depending, as the answer says, on how the coin whose value is shown to you is chosen.
            – John Bollinger
            Aug 21 at 18:06






          • 1




            This description suggests a variation on the Monty Hall Problem. The fact that Monty knows things you don't (heh) is central to understanding why the naïve "1/4" is incorrect. He has the freedom to choose which Let's Make A Deal door to reveal, and @Vincent has claimed the same freedom with these coins.
            – Monty Harder
            Aug 21 at 18:21







          • 2




            @user3508140 In Wildcard's example, the probability is very close to 100% that it will come up heads. The probability that the flips were randomly coming up heads every time is close to zero. The coin is likely a double-headed coin.
            – InterstellarProbe
            Aug 23 at 13:43













          up vote
          102
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          102
          down vote



          accepted






          The contrast between your interpretation and that in the other answers points out that there is an ambiguity in the wording of the question, in particular in the use of "one". You interpret it as "the first". The other answerers interpret it as "at least one". Someone might interpret it as "exactly one" in which case the answer would be 0.



          To elaborate on Henry's comment: suppose the three coins are tossed but I have placed cups over them so you cannot see them.



          • If you are allowed to pick one cup and lift it, and after doing that you see the coin under that cup was tails, we are in your interpretation of the problem.

          • If I am allowed to look under the cups (but you aren't) and I tell you afterwards: 'at least one coin shows tails' then we are in the other posters answer to the problem.

          • If you pick a cup but are not allowed to look under it, and I (knowing the outcome of all three coins) lift a different cup, showing that the coin under that one is tails (and offer you to change cups even if that is irrelevant for the current question, but hey, perhaps we are in a game-show, who knows?), then you can only compute the probability of three tails under some assumptions about what is going on in my head (e.g. would I always show you heads if I had the chance?).

          The important thing is that all three scenario's are consistent with the given that 'one of them shows a tails'. So in other words: the answer depends on how you interpret this given and you should go complain to the person who gave you this riddle.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          The contrast between your interpretation and that in the other answers points out that there is an ambiguity in the wording of the question, in particular in the use of "one". You interpret it as "the first". The other answerers interpret it as "at least one". Someone might interpret it as "exactly one" in which case the answer would be 0.



          To elaborate on Henry's comment: suppose the three coins are tossed but I have placed cups over them so you cannot see them.



          • If you are allowed to pick one cup and lift it, and after doing that you see the coin under that cup was tails, we are in your interpretation of the problem.

          • If I am allowed to look under the cups (but you aren't) and I tell you afterwards: 'at least one coin shows tails' then we are in the other posters answer to the problem.

          • If you pick a cup but are not allowed to look under it, and I (knowing the outcome of all three coins) lift a different cup, showing that the coin under that one is tails (and offer you to change cups even if that is irrelevant for the current question, but hey, perhaps we are in a game-show, who knows?), then you can only compute the probability of three tails under some assumptions about what is going on in my head (e.g. would I always show you heads if I had the chance?).

          The important thing is that all three scenario's are consistent with the given that 'one of them shows a tails'. So in other words: the answer depends on how you interpret this given and you should go complain to the person who gave you this riddle.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Aug 21 at 13:36









          Vincent

          3,34711128




          3,34711128







          • 2




            Amazing. Thanks.
            – user3508140
            Aug 21 at 14:40






          • 4




            Why isn't it "25%"? (Since -- after knowing the value of one coin -- we're left with only two unknown coins, and the odds of two coins being tails is 25%.)
            – RonJohn
            Aug 21 at 15:50






          • 6




            That's just the point, @RonJohn: "knowing the value of one coin" is the first alternative presented in this answer, but not the other two. In the second alternative, you know only that there is at least one tails, which is different. The third can be equivalent to either of the first two, or to something else, depending, as the answer says, on how the coin whose value is shown to you is chosen.
            – John Bollinger
            Aug 21 at 18:06






          • 1




            This description suggests a variation on the Monty Hall Problem. The fact that Monty knows things you don't (heh) is central to understanding why the naïve "1/4" is incorrect. He has the freedom to choose which Let's Make A Deal door to reveal, and @Vincent has claimed the same freedom with these coins.
            – Monty Harder
            Aug 21 at 18:21







          • 2




            @user3508140 In Wildcard's example, the probability is very close to 100% that it will come up heads. The probability that the flips were randomly coming up heads every time is close to zero. The coin is likely a double-headed coin.
            – InterstellarProbe
            Aug 23 at 13:43













          • 2




            Amazing. Thanks.
            – user3508140
            Aug 21 at 14:40






          • 4




            Why isn't it "25%"? (Since -- after knowing the value of one coin -- we're left with only two unknown coins, and the odds of two coins being tails is 25%.)
            – RonJohn
            Aug 21 at 15:50






          • 6




            That's just the point, @RonJohn: "knowing the value of one coin" is the first alternative presented in this answer, but not the other two. In the second alternative, you know only that there is at least one tails, which is different. The third can be equivalent to either of the first two, or to something else, depending, as the answer says, on how the coin whose value is shown to you is chosen.
            – John Bollinger
            Aug 21 at 18:06






          • 1




            This description suggests a variation on the Monty Hall Problem. The fact that Monty knows things you don't (heh) is central to understanding why the naïve "1/4" is incorrect. He has the freedom to choose which Let's Make A Deal door to reveal, and @Vincent has claimed the same freedom with these coins.
            – Monty Harder
            Aug 21 at 18:21







          • 2




            @user3508140 In Wildcard's example, the probability is very close to 100% that it will come up heads. The probability that the flips were randomly coming up heads every time is close to zero. The coin is likely a double-headed coin.
            – InterstellarProbe
            Aug 23 at 13:43








          2




          2




          Amazing. Thanks.
          – user3508140
          Aug 21 at 14:40




          Amazing. Thanks.
          – user3508140
          Aug 21 at 14:40




          4




          4




          Why isn't it "25%"? (Since -- after knowing the value of one coin -- we're left with only two unknown coins, and the odds of two coins being tails is 25%.)
          – RonJohn
          Aug 21 at 15:50




          Why isn't it "25%"? (Since -- after knowing the value of one coin -- we're left with only two unknown coins, and the odds of two coins being tails is 25%.)
          – RonJohn
          Aug 21 at 15:50




          6




          6




          That's just the point, @RonJohn: "knowing the value of one coin" is the first alternative presented in this answer, but not the other two. In the second alternative, you know only that there is at least one tails, which is different. The third can be equivalent to either of the first two, or to something else, depending, as the answer says, on how the coin whose value is shown to you is chosen.
          – John Bollinger
          Aug 21 at 18:06




          That's just the point, @RonJohn: "knowing the value of one coin" is the first alternative presented in this answer, but not the other two. In the second alternative, you know only that there is at least one tails, which is different. The third can be equivalent to either of the first two, or to something else, depending, as the answer says, on how the coin whose value is shown to you is chosen.
          – John Bollinger
          Aug 21 at 18:06




          1




          1




          This description suggests a variation on the Monty Hall Problem. The fact that Monty knows things you don't (heh) is central to understanding why the naïve "1/4" is incorrect. He has the freedom to choose which Let's Make A Deal door to reveal, and @Vincent has claimed the same freedom with these coins.
          – Monty Harder
          Aug 21 at 18:21





          This description suggests a variation on the Monty Hall Problem. The fact that Monty knows things you don't (heh) is central to understanding why the naïve "1/4" is incorrect. He has the freedom to choose which Let's Make A Deal door to reveal, and @Vincent has claimed the same freedom with these coins.
          – Monty Harder
          Aug 21 at 18:21





          2




          2




          @user3508140 In Wildcard's example, the probability is very close to 100% that it will come up heads. The probability that the flips were randomly coming up heads every time is close to zero. The coin is likely a double-headed coin.
          – InterstellarProbe
          Aug 23 at 13:43





          @user3508140 In Wildcard's example, the probability is very close to 100% that it will come up heads. The probability that the flips were randomly coming up heads every time is close to zero. The coin is likely a double-headed coin.
          – InterstellarProbe
          Aug 23 at 13:43











          up vote
          31
          down vote













          Here is the chart of every possible outcome where there is at least one tails:



          $$beginarrayc1 & 2 & 3 \ hline H & H & T \ H & T & H \ H & T & T \ T & H & H \ T & H & T \ T & T & H \ T & T & Tendarray$$



          There are 7 possibilities (each equally likely) where at least one coin is a tails. Only one of them is all tails. The probability is $$dfrac17$$






          share|cite|improve this answer
























            up vote
            31
            down vote













            Here is the chart of every possible outcome where there is at least one tails:



            $$beginarrayc1 & 2 & 3 \ hline H & H & T \ H & T & H \ H & T & T \ T & H & H \ T & H & T \ T & T & H \ T & T & Tendarray$$



            There are 7 possibilities (each equally likely) where at least one coin is a tails. Only one of them is all tails. The probability is $$dfrac17$$






            share|cite|improve this answer






















              up vote
              31
              down vote










              up vote
              31
              down vote









              Here is the chart of every possible outcome where there is at least one tails:



              $$beginarrayc1 & 2 & 3 \ hline H & H & T \ H & T & H \ H & T & T \ T & H & H \ T & H & T \ T & T & H \ T & T & Tendarray$$



              There are 7 possibilities (each equally likely) where at least one coin is a tails. Only one of them is all tails. The probability is $$dfrac17$$






              share|cite|improve this answer












              Here is the chart of every possible outcome where there is at least one tails:



              $$beginarrayc1 & 2 & 3 \ hline H & H & T \ H & T & H \ H & T & T \ T & H & H \ T & H & T \ T & T & H \ T & T & Tendarray$$



              There are 7 possibilities (each equally likely) where at least one coin is a tails. Only one of them is all tails. The probability is $$dfrac17$$







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Aug 21 at 13:23









              InterstellarProbe

              3,111723




              3,111723




















                  up vote
                  12
                  down vote













                  Let E $=$ all three coins show tail.



                  Let F $=$ one of the coins show tail.



                  $E=TTT$



                  $F=HHT, HTH, THH, HTT, THT, TTH, TTT$



                  $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)$$ where $P(F)=dfrac78$ and $P(Ecap F)=dfrac18$



                  Therefore, the probability that all the three coins show tails is $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)=dfracdfrac18dfrac78=dfrac18timesdfrac87=dfrac17$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                  • Right, almost. If you were using only a sequence of 2 events. Even so, what's being asked is something that's more seen in reality, not an abstract concept $P(E|F)$ (the Conditional Probability), which is $P(E cap F)$, the actual probability of $TTT$
                    – Dehbop
                    Aug 22 at 7:42














                  up vote
                  12
                  down vote













                  Let E $=$ all three coins show tail.



                  Let F $=$ one of the coins show tail.



                  $E=TTT$



                  $F=HHT, HTH, THH, HTT, THT, TTH, TTT$



                  $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)$$ where $P(F)=dfrac78$ and $P(Ecap F)=dfrac18$



                  Therefore, the probability that all the three coins show tails is $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)=dfracdfrac18dfrac78=dfrac18timesdfrac87=dfrac17$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer






















                  • Right, almost. If you were using only a sequence of 2 events. Even so, what's being asked is something that's more seen in reality, not an abstract concept $P(E|F)$ (the Conditional Probability), which is $P(E cap F)$, the actual probability of $TTT$
                    – Dehbop
                    Aug 22 at 7:42












                  up vote
                  12
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  12
                  down vote









                  Let E $=$ all three coins show tail.



                  Let F $=$ one of the coins show tail.



                  $E=TTT$



                  $F=HHT, HTH, THH, HTT, THT, TTH, TTT$



                  $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)$$ where $P(F)=dfrac78$ and $P(Ecap F)=dfrac18$



                  Therefore, the probability that all the three coins show tails is $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)=dfracdfrac18dfrac78=dfrac18timesdfrac87=dfrac17$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  Let E $=$ all three coins show tail.



                  Let F $=$ one of the coins show tail.



                  $E=TTT$



                  $F=HHT, HTH, THH, HTT, THT, TTH, TTT$



                  $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)$$ where $P(F)=dfrac78$ and $P(Ecap F)=dfrac18$



                  Therefore, the probability that all the three coins show tails is $$P(E|F)=dfracP(Ecap F)P(F)=dfracdfrac18dfrac78=dfrac18timesdfrac87=dfrac17$$







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Aug 21 at 19:22

























                  answered Aug 21 at 13:25









                  Key Flex

                  5,001628




                  5,001628











                  • Right, almost. If you were using only a sequence of 2 events. Even so, what's being asked is something that's more seen in reality, not an abstract concept $P(E|F)$ (the Conditional Probability), which is $P(E cap F)$, the actual probability of $TTT$
                    – Dehbop
                    Aug 22 at 7:42
















                  • Right, almost. If you were using only a sequence of 2 events. Even so, what's being asked is something that's more seen in reality, not an abstract concept $P(E|F)$ (the Conditional Probability), which is $P(E cap F)$, the actual probability of $TTT$
                    – Dehbop
                    Aug 22 at 7:42















                  Right, almost. If you were using only a sequence of 2 events. Even so, what's being asked is something that's more seen in reality, not an abstract concept $P(E|F)$ (the Conditional Probability), which is $P(E cap F)$, the actual probability of $TTT$
                  – Dehbop
                  Aug 22 at 7:42




                  Right, almost. If you were using only a sequence of 2 events. Even so, what's being asked is something that's more seen in reality, not an abstract concept $P(E|F)$ (the Conditional Probability), which is $P(E cap F)$, the actual probability of $TTT$
                  – Dehbop
                  Aug 22 at 7:42










                  up vote
                  8
                  down vote













                  The issue is, you don't know which coin shows tails. So, let's count all the possible 3 coin tosses that include tails. In fact, there is only one combination, i.e., HHH, where there are no tails.



                  So, the number of ways of getting 3 tails (1) is divided by the new total number of possibilities (8-1). So the answer is $frac17$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                    up vote
                    8
                    down vote













                    The issue is, you don't know which coin shows tails. So, let's count all the possible 3 coin tosses that include tails. In fact, there is only one combination, i.e., HHH, where there are no tails.



                    So, the number of ways of getting 3 tails (1) is divided by the new total number of possibilities (8-1). So the answer is $frac17$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer






















                      up vote
                      8
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      8
                      down vote









                      The issue is, you don't know which coin shows tails. So, let's count all the possible 3 coin tosses that include tails. In fact, there is only one combination, i.e., HHH, where there are no tails.



                      So, the number of ways of getting 3 tails (1) is divided by the new total number of possibilities (8-1). So the answer is $frac17$.






                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      The issue is, you don't know which coin shows tails. So, let's count all the possible 3 coin tosses that include tails. In fact, there is only one combination, i.e., HHH, where there are no tails.



                      So, the number of ways of getting 3 tails (1) is divided by the new total number of possibilities (8-1). So the answer is $frac17$.







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Aug 21 at 13:22









                      Rushabh Mehta

                      2,618221




                      2,618221




















                          up vote
                          8
                          down vote













                          Answer concerning the scenario "at least one coin shows a tail".



                          Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                          Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3wedge Tgeq1)P(Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3)1-P(T=0)=fracfrac12frac12frac121-frac12frac12frac12=frac17$$




                          Answer concerning the scenario "exactly one coin shows a tail".



                          Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                          Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid T=1)=fracP(T=3wedge T=1)P(T=1)=fracP(varnothing)P(T=1)=frac0P(T=1)=0$$




                          Answer concerning the scenario "the first coin shows a tail".



                          Here I refer to your own answer. The probability then equals indeed $1cdotfrac12frac12=frac14$ and your reasoning is correct if this is the aimed scenario (I have serious doubts that it is).






                          share|cite|improve this answer


























                            up vote
                            8
                            down vote













                            Answer concerning the scenario "at least one coin shows a tail".



                            Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                            Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3wedge Tgeq1)P(Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3)1-P(T=0)=fracfrac12frac12frac121-frac12frac12frac12=frac17$$




                            Answer concerning the scenario "exactly one coin shows a tail".



                            Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                            Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid T=1)=fracP(T=3wedge T=1)P(T=1)=fracP(varnothing)P(T=1)=frac0P(T=1)=0$$




                            Answer concerning the scenario "the first coin shows a tail".



                            Here I refer to your own answer. The probability then equals indeed $1cdotfrac12frac12=frac14$ and your reasoning is correct if this is the aimed scenario (I have serious doubts that it is).






                            share|cite|improve this answer
























                              up vote
                              8
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              8
                              down vote









                              Answer concerning the scenario "at least one coin shows a tail".



                              Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                              Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3wedge Tgeq1)P(Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3)1-P(T=0)=fracfrac12frac12frac121-frac12frac12frac12=frac17$$




                              Answer concerning the scenario "exactly one coin shows a tail".



                              Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                              Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid T=1)=fracP(T=3wedge T=1)P(T=1)=fracP(varnothing)P(T=1)=frac0P(T=1)=0$$




                              Answer concerning the scenario "the first coin shows a tail".



                              Here I refer to your own answer. The probability then equals indeed $1cdotfrac12frac12=frac14$ and your reasoning is correct if this is the aimed scenario (I have serious doubts that it is).






                              share|cite|improve this answer














                              Answer concerning the scenario "at least one coin shows a tail".



                              Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                              Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3wedge Tgeq1)P(Tgeq1)=fracP(T=3)1-P(T=0)=fracfrac12frac12frac121-frac12frac12frac12=frac17$$




                              Answer concerning the scenario "exactly one coin shows a tail".



                              Let $T$ denote the number of tails that are thrown.



                              Then you are looking for:$$P(T=3mid T=1)=fracP(T=3wedge T=1)P(T=1)=fracP(varnothing)P(T=1)=frac0P(T=1)=0$$




                              Answer concerning the scenario "the first coin shows a tail".



                              Here I refer to your own answer. The probability then equals indeed $1cdotfrac12frac12=frac14$ and your reasoning is correct if this is the aimed scenario (I have serious doubts that it is).







                              share|cite|improve this answer














                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer








                              edited Aug 23 at 7:30

























                              answered Aug 21 at 13:35









                              drhab

                              89.3k541123




                              89.3k541123




















                                  up vote
                                  4
                                  down vote













                                  Let me work through your reasoning and demonstrate exactly why it doesn't work.



                                  Just now, I asked my friend to flip 3 coins, one at a time. I then asked her if at least one of the coins came up tails. She said yes.



                                  What's the probability that all three coins came up tails?



                                  Define $A$ as the first coin which came up tails. Define $B$ as the first coin which is not $A$, and then define $C$ has the remaining coin.



                                  If I make your reasoning more explicit, it says something like:




                                  The probability that $A$ is tails, $P(A = T)$, is $1$. The remaining two coins are equally likely to be heads or tails, so $P(B = T) = 1/2$ and $P(C = T) = 1/2$. Finally, the three coins are independent, so the probability that all three coins are tails is the product of these: $P(A = T, B = T, C = T) = 1 cdot 1/2 cdot 1/2 = 1/4$.




                                  However, this reasoning isn't correct. We have defined $B$ in an "unfair" way, so that $B$ is actually more likely to be heads than tails.



                                  (What's so unfair about the definition of $B$? If the first coin comes up heads, then $B$ comes up heads, because, according to our definition, $B$ is the first coin. But if the first coin comes up tails, $B$ may come up heads anyway.)



                                  We can see the actual probabilities of $B = T$ and $C = T$ by writing out the seven possible outcomes (all of which are equally likely):



                                  • $HHT$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                  • $HTH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                  • $HTT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                  • $THH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                  • $THT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                  • $TTH$: $B = T$, $C = H$

                                  • $TTT$: $B = T$, $C = T$

                                  By looking at this table, we can see that $P(B = T) = 2/7$ and $P(C = T) = 3/7$. The two events aren't independent, either: $P(B = T)P(C = T) = 6/49$, whereas $P(B = T, C = T) = 1/7 = 7/49$.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                                    up vote
                                    4
                                    down vote













                                    Let me work through your reasoning and demonstrate exactly why it doesn't work.



                                    Just now, I asked my friend to flip 3 coins, one at a time. I then asked her if at least one of the coins came up tails. She said yes.



                                    What's the probability that all three coins came up tails?



                                    Define $A$ as the first coin which came up tails. Define $B$ as the first coin which is not $A$, and then define $C$ has the remaining coin.



                                    If I make your reasoning more explicit, it says something like:




                                    The probability that $A$ is tails, $P(A = T)$, is $1$. The remaining two coins are equally likely to be heads or tails, so $P(B = T) = 1/2$ and $P(C = T) = 1/2$. Finally, the three coins are independent, so the probability that all three coins are tails is the product of these: $P(A = T, B = T, C = T) = 1 cdot 1/2 cdot 1/2 = 1/4$.




                                    However, this reasoning isn't correct. We have defined $B$ in an "unfair" way, so that $B$ is actually more likely to be heads than tails.



                                    (What's so unfair about the definition of $B$? If the first coin comes up heads, then $B$ comes up heads, because, according to our definition, $B$ is the first coin. But if the first coin comes up tails, $B$ may come up heads anyway.)



                                    We can see the actual probabilities of $B = T$ and $C = T$ by writing out the seven possible outcomes (all of which are equally likely):



                                    • $HHT$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                    • $HTH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                    • $HTT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                    • $THH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                    • $THT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                    • $TTH$: $B = T$, $C = H$

                                    • $TTT$: $B = T$, $C = T$

                                    By looking at this table, we can see that $P(B = T) = 2/7$ and $P(C = T) = 3/7$. The two events aren't independent, either: $P(B = T)P(C = T) = 6/49$, whereas $P(B = T, C = T) = 1/7 = 7/49$.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer






















                                      up vote
                                      4
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      4
                                      down vote









                                      Let me work through your reasoning and demonstrate exactly why it doesn't work.



                                      Just now, I asked my friend to flip 3 coins, one at a time. I then asked her if at least one of the coins came up tails. She said yes.



                                      What's the probability that all three coins came up tails?



                                      Define $A$ as the first coin which came up tails. Define $B$ as the first coin which is not $A$, and then define $C$ has the remaining coin.



                                      If I make your reasoning more explicit, it says something like:




                                      The probability that $A$ is tails, $P(A = T)$, is $1$. The remaining two coins are equally likely to be heads or tails, so $P(B = T) = 1/2$ and $P(C = T) = 1/2$. Finally, the three coins are independent, so the probability that all three coins are tails is the product of these: $P(A = T, B = T, C = T) = 1 cdot 1/2 cdot 1/2 = 1/4$.




                                      However, this reasoning isn't correct. We have defined $B$ in an "unfair" way, so that $B$ is actually more likely to be heads than tails.



                                      (What's so unfair about the definition of $B$? If the first coin comes up heads, then $B$ comes up heads, because, according to our definition, $B$ is the first coin. But if the first coin comes up tails, $B$ may come up heads anyway.)



                                      We can see the actual probabilities of $B = T$ and $C = T$ by writing out the seven possible outcomes (all of which are equally likely):



                                      • $HHT$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                      • $HTH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                      • $HTT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                      • $THH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                      • $THT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                      • $TTH$: $B = T$, $C = H$

                                      • $TTT$: $B = T$, $C = T$

                                      By looking at this table, we can see that $P(B = T) = 2/7$ and $P(C = T) = 3/7$. The two events aren't independent, either: $P(B = T)P(C = T) = 6/49$, whereas $P(B = T, C = T) = 1/7 = 7/49$.






                                      share|cite|improve this answer












                                      Let me work through your reasoning and demonstrate exactly why it doesn't work.



                                      Just now, I asked my friend to flip 3 coins, one at a time. I then asked her if at least one of the coins came up tails. She said yes.



                                      What's the probability that all three coins came up tails?



                                      Define $A$ as the first coin which came up tails. Define $B$ as the first coin which is not $A$, and then define $C$ has the remaining coin.



                                      If I make your reasoning more explicit, it says something like:




                                      The probability that $A$ is tails, $P(A = T)$, is $1$. The remaining two coins are equally likely to be heads or tails, so $P(B = T) = 1/2$ and $P(C = T) = 1/2$. Finally, the three coins are independent, so the probability that all three coins are tails is the product of these: $P(A = T, B = T, C = T) = 1 cdot 1/2 cdot 1/2 = 1/4$.




                                      However, this reasoning isn't correct. We have defined $B$ in an "unfair" way, so that $B$ is actually more likely to be heads than tails.



                                      (What's so unfair about the definition of $B$? If the first coin comes up heads, then $B$ comes up heads, because, according to our definition, $B$ is the first coin. But if the first coin comes up tails, $B$ may come up heads anyway.)



                                      We can see the actual probabilities of $B = T$ and $C = T$ by writing out the seven possible outcomes (all of which are equally likely):



                                      • $HHT$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                      • $HTH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                      • $HTT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                      • $THH$: $B = H$, $C = H$

                                      • $THT$: $B = H$, $C = T$

                                      • $TTH$: $B = T$, $C = H$

                                      • $TTT$: $B = T$, $C = T$

                                      By looking at this table, we can see that $P(B = T) = 2/7$ and $P(C = T) = 3/7$. The two events aren't independent, either: $P(B = T)P(C = T) = 6/49$, whereas $P(B = T, C = T) = 1/7 = 7/49$.







                                      share|cite|improve this answer












                                      share|cite|improve this answer



                                      share|cite|improve this answer










                                      answered Aug 22 at 0:08









                                      Tanner Swett

                                      3,9011638




                                      3,9011638




















                                          up vote
                                          -6
                                          down vote













                                          First, as opposed to everyone else, I will show the possibilities with only varying the last 2 toss:



                                          A (listed here just for the sake of demonstration):



                                          $HHH$

                                          $HHT$

                                          $HTH$

                                          $HTT$



                                          B:



                                          $THH$

                                          $THT$

                                          $TTH$

                                          $TTT$



                                          We only consider B because the first toss is DETERMINED & as you can see the possibilities are only 4, not 8; leading to $P(TTT) = 1/4$. It agrees with the initial intuition that, despite the efforts of these other users, is correct.



                                          Now, some people are invoking Conditional Probability as what's being asked. I would have to say that what's being asked is something more concrete as $P(TTT) = 1/4$

                                          & the confusion of Conditional Probability being asked for is because of the shortcomings of natural languages.




                                          EDIT:

                                          Another simple comment. I just realized this, but even asking for a Conditional Probability (I still assert is not what's being asked) CAN virtually be the same answer. $fracP(X1 = T cap TTT)P(X1 = T)$ where X1 is the first toss, as long as the conditional is $P(X1 = T)$, seeing that $P(X1 = T) = 1$. This is STILL because all possibilities in consideration is B. Won't work if the conditional is $P(TTT)$





                                          I'd say these are Math & Actuarial Science TAs that are posting these questions & answers, as they are VERY familiar with what I'd call "verbal/logical disconnect", specially seen in Math & Stats.






                                          share|cite|improve this answer






















                                          • YES! >>> 'If one of them shows (a) tails'.
                                            – Lamar Latrell
                                            Aug 22 at 10:49







                                          • 9




                                            Wait a minute...what part of the other answers have "no integrity". Please justify this rather random accusation.
                                            – Rushabh Mehta
                                            Aug 22 at 12:08














                                          up vote
                                          -6
                                          down vote













                                          First, as opposed to everyone else, I will show the possibilities with only varying the last 2 toss:



                                          A (listed here just for the sake of demonstration):



                                          $HHH$

                                          $HHT$

                                          $HTH$

                                          $HTT$



                                          B:



                                          $THH$

                                          $THT$

                                          $TTH$

                                          $TTT$



                                          We only consider B because the first toss is DETERMINED & as you can see the possibilities are only 4, not 8; leading to $P(TTT) = 1/4$. It agrees with the initial intuition that, despite the efforts of these other users, is correct.



                                          Now, some people are invoking Conditional Probability as what's being asked. I would have to say that what's being asked is something more concrete as $P(TTT) = 1/4$

                                          & the confusion of Conditional Probability being asked for is because of the shortcomings of natural languages.




                                          EDIT:

                                          Another simple comment. I just realized this, but even asking for a Conditional Probability (I still assert is not what's being asked) CAN virtually be the same answer. $fracP(X1 = T cap TTT)P(X1 = T)$ where X1 is the first toss, as long as the conditional is $P(X1 = T)$, seeing that $P(X1 = T) = 1$. This is STILL because all possibilities in consideration is B. Won't work if the conditional is $P(TTT)$





                                          I'd say these are Math & Actuarial Science TAs that are posting these questions & answers, as they are VERY familiar with what I'd call "verbal/logical disconnect", specially seen in Math & Stats.






                                          share|cite|improve this answer






















                                          • YES! >>> 'If one of them shows (a) tails'.
                                            – Lamar Latrell
                                            Aug 22 at 10:49







                                          • 9




                                            Wait a minute...what part of the other answers have "no integrity". Please justify this rather random accusation.
                                            – Rushabh Mehta
                                            Aug 22 at 12:08












                                          up vote
                                          -6
                                          down vote










                                          up vote
                                          -6
                                          down vote









                                          First, as opposed to everyone else, I will show the possibilities with only varying the last 2 toss:



                                          A (listed here just for the sake of demonstration):



                                          $HHH$

                                          $HHT$

                                          $HTH$

                                          $HTT$



                                          B:



                                          $THH$

                                          $THT$

                                          $TTH$

                                          $TTT$



                                          We only consider B because the first toss is DETERMINED & as you can see the possibilities are only 4, not 8; leading to $P(TTT) = 1/4$. It agrees with the initial intuition that, despite the efforts of these other users, is correct.



                                          Now, some people are invoking Conditional Probability as what's being asked. I would have to say that what's being asked is something more concrete as $P(TTT) = 1/4$

                                          & the confusion of Conditional Probability being asked for is because of the shortcomings of natural languages.




                                          EDIT:

                                          Another simple comment. I just realized this, but even asking for a Conditional Probability (I still assert is not what's being asked) CAN virtually be the same answer. $fracP(X1 = T cap TTT)P(X1 = T)$ where X1 is the first toss, as long as the conditional is $P(X1 = T)$, seeing that $P(X1 = T) = 1$. This is STILL because all possibilities in consideration is B. Won't work if the conditional is $P(TTT)$





                                          I'd say these are Math & Actuarial Science TAs that are posting these questions & answers, as they are VERY familiar with what I'd call "verbal/logical disconnect", specially seen in Math & Stats.






                                          share|cite|improve this answer














                                          First, as opposed to everyone else, I will show the possibilities with only varying the last 2 toss:



                                          A (listed here just for the sake of demonstration):



                                          $HHH$

                                          $HHT$

                                          $HTH$

                                          $HTT$



                                          B:



                                          $THH$

                                          $THT$

                                          $TTH$

                                          $TTT$



                                          We only consider B because the first toss is DETERMINED & as you can see the possibilities are only 4, not 8; leading to $P(TTT) = 1/4$. It agrees with the initial intuition that, despite the efforts of these other users, is correct.



                                          Now, some people are invoking Conditional Probability as what's being asked. I would have to say that what's being asked is something more concrete as $P(TTT) = 1/4$

                                          & the confusion of Conditional Probability being asked for is because of the shortcomings of natural languages.




                                          EDIT:

                                          Another simple comment. I just realized this, but even asking for a Conditional Probability (I still assert is not what's being asked) CAN virtually be the same answer. $fracP(X1 = T cap TTT)P(X1 = T)$ where X1 is the first toss, as long as the conditional is $P(X1 = T)$, seeing that $P(X1 = T) = 1$. This is STILL because all possibilities in consideration is B. Won't work if the conditional is $P(TTT)$





                                          I'd say these are Math & Actuarial Science TAs that are posting these questions & answers, as they are VERY familiar with what I'd call "verbal/logical disconnect", specially seen in Math & Stats.







                                          share|cite|improve this answer














                                          share|cite|improve this answer



                                          share|cite|improve this answer








                                          edited Aug 23 at 3:02

























                                          answered Aug 22 at 8:47









                                          Dehbop

                                          1




                                          1











                                          • YES! >>> 'If one of them shows (a) tails'.
                                            – Lamar Latrell
                                            Aug 22 at 10:49







                                          • 9




                                            Wait a minute...what part of the other answers have "no integrity". Please justify this rather random accusation.
                                            – Rushabh Mehta
                                            Aug 22 at 12:08
















                                          • YES! >>> 'If one of them shows (a) tails'.
                                            – Lamar Latrell
                                            Aug 22 at 10:49







                                          • 9




                                            Wait a minute...what part of the other answers have "no integrity". Please justify this rather random accusation.
                                            – Rushabh Mehta
                                            Aug 22 at 12:08















                                          YES! >>> 'If one of them shows (a) tails'.
                                          – Lamar Latrell
                                          Aug 22 at 10:49





                                          YES! >>> 'If one of them shows (a) tails'.
                                          – Lamar Latrell
                                          Aug 22 at 10:49





                                          9




                                          9




                                          Wait a minute...what part of the other answers have "no integrity". Please justify this rather random accusation.
                                          – Rushabh Mehta
                                          Aug 22 at 12:08




                                          Wait a minute...what part of the other answers have "no integrity". Please justify this rather random accusation.
                                          – Rushabh Mehta
                                          Aug 22 at 12:08


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