Is AIX/Power safe from Spectre / Meltdown?

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Since Intel, AMD and ARM is affected by the Spectre and Meltdown cpu kernel memory leak bugs/flaws, could we say that Power architecture is safe from these?







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    up vote
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    favorite
    4












    Since Intel, AMD and ARM is affected by the Spectre and Meltdown cpu kernel memory leak bugs/flaws, could we say that Power architecture is safe from these?







    share|improve this question
























      up vote
      8
      down vote

      favorite
      4









      up vote
      8
      down vote

      favorite
      4






      4





      Since Intel, AMD and ARM is affected by the Spectre and Meltdown cpu kernel memory leak bugs/flaws, could we say that Power architecture is safe from these?







      share|improve this question














      Since Intel, AMD and ARM is affected by the Spectre and Meltdown cpu kernel memory leak bugs/flaws, could we say that Power architecture is safe from these?









      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Jan 23 at 12:26









      Gilles

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      asked Jan 5 at 20:46









      Hessnov

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          2 Answers
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          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          10
          down vote



          accepted










          No, you could not say it's safe.



          https://www.ibm.com/blogs/psirt/potential-impact-processors-power-family/




          Complete mitigation of this vulnerability for Power Systems clients involves installing patches to both system firmware and operating systems. The firmware patch provides partial remediation to these vulnerabilities and is a pre-requisite for the OS patch to be effective.



          [...]



          Firmware patches for POWER7+, POWER8, and POWER9 platforms are now available via FixCentral. POWER7 patches will be available beginning February 7.



          [...]



          AIX patches will be available beginning January 26 and will continue to be rolled out through February 12.




          Update : patches available, http://aix.software.ibm.com/aix/efixes/security/spectre_meltdown_advisory.asc






          share|improve this answer






















          • wow, everything affected? :D
            – Hessnov
            Jan 6 at 5:28






          • 2




            Just about every chip with out of order execution is affected.
            – WorBlux
            Jan 7 at 1:21

















          up vote
          3
          down vote













          Because of the specific nature of Meltdown, Power is not affected by the demonstration code, but it may be possible to write something that has a similar effect. But, because of the way that AIX on Power organizes it's memory map, only one page (IIRC, it's a while since I last looked) of the kernel (page 0, the one containing the interrupt vectors) is mapped into a user process. This prevents branch predictor cache loads from accessing kernel data structures, which is the particular attack documented for Meltdown (in other words, AIX on Power should be almost completely immune, by design, to Meltdown).



          Linux on Power does (or at least until the updates) do the mapping of kernel memory into a protected region of user process address spaces, so a Meltdown type attack is theoretically possible, but AFAICT it has not been demonstrated. I do not know about IBM i.



          The techniques described for Spectre remain less clear. IBM has only made the most broad statements publicly, which look like an effort to say something rather than nothing IMHO, but it is possible that all OSs running on Power may be affected by attacks related to the type documented. But, again, AFAICT, there is no demonstration code for Spectre on Power yet. But this may be a result of not enough Power systems being available to the researchers, and may change as time passes.



          Please note that the views expressed in this post are my own, and are not those of any other person or organization.






          share|improve this answer




















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            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes








            up vote
            10
            down vote



            accepted










            No, you could not say it's safe.



            https://www.ibm.com/blogs/psirt/potential-impact-processors-power-family/




            Complete mitigation of this vulnerability for Power Systems clients involves installing patches to both system firmware and operating systems. The firmware patch provides partial remediation to these vulnerabilities and is a pre-requisite for the OS patch to be effective.



            [...]



            Firmware patches for POWER7+, POWER8, and POWER9 platforms are now available via FixCentral. POWER7 patches will be available beginning February 7.



            [...]



            AIX patches will be available beginning January 26 and will continue to be rolled out through February 12.




            Update : patches available, http://aix.software.ibm.com/aix/efixes/security/spectre_meltdown_advisory.asc






            share|improve this answer






















            • wow, everything affected? :D
              – Hessnov
              Jan 6 at 5:28






            • 2




              Just about every chip with out of order execution is affected.
              – WorBlux
              Jan 7 at 1:21














            up vote
            10
            down vote



            accepted










            No, you could not say it's safe.



            https://www.ibm.com/blogs/psirt/potential-impact-processors-power-family/




            Complete mitigation of this vulnerability for Power Systems clients involves installing patches to both system firmware and operating systems. The firmware patch provides partial remediation to these vulnerabilities and is a pre-requisite for the OS patch to be effective.



            [...]



            Firmware patches for POWER7+, POWER8, and POWER9 platforms are now available via FixCentral. POWER7 patches will be available beginning February 7.



            [...]



            AIX patches will be available beginning January 26 and will continue to be rolled out through February 12.




            Update : patches available, http://aix.software.ibm.com/aix/efixes/security/spectre_meltdown_advisory.asc






            share|improve this answer






















            • wow, everything affected? :D
              – Hessnov
              Jan 6 at 5:28






            • 2




              Just about every chip with out of order execution is affected.
              – WorBlux
              Jan 7 at 1:21












            up vote
            10
            down vote



            accepted







            up vote
            10
            down vote



            accepted






            No, you could not say it's safe.



            https://www.ibm.com/blogs/psirt/potential-impact-processors-power-family/




            Complete mitigation of this vulnerability for Power Systems clients involves installing patches to both system firmware and operating systems. The firmware patch provides partial remediation to these vulnerabilities and is a pre-requisite for the OS patch to be effective.



            [...]



            Firmware patches for POWER7+, POWER8, and POWER9 platforms are now available via FixCentral. POWER7 patches will be available beginning February 7.



            [...]



            AIX patches will be available beginning January 26 and will continue to be rolled out through February 12.




            Update : patches available, http://aix.software.ibm.com/aix/efixes/security/spectre_meltdown_advisory.asc






            share|improve this answer














            No, you could not say it's safe.



            https://www.ibm.com/blogs/psirt/potential-impact-processors-power-family/




            Complete mitigation of this vulnerability for Power Systems clients involves installing patches to both system firmware and operating systems. The firmware patch provides partial remediation to these vulnerabilities and is a pre-requisite for the OS patch to be effective.



            [...]



            Firmware patches for POWER7+, POWER8, and POWER9 platforms are now available via FixCentral. POWER7 patches will be available beginning February 7.



            [...]



            AIX patches will be available beginning January 26 and will continue to be rolled out through February 12.




            Update : patches available, http://aix.software.ibm.com/aix/efixes/security/spectre_meltdown_advisory.asc







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited May 20 at 17:27

























            answered Jan 5 at 20:58









            steve

            12.5k22048




            12.5k22048











            • wow, everything affected? :D
              – Hessnov
              Jan 6 at 5:28






            • 2




              Just about every chip with out of order execution is affected.
              – WorBlux
              Jan 7 at 1:21
















            • wow, everything affected? :D
              – Hessnov
              Jan 6 at 5:28






            • 2




              Just about every chip with out of order execution is affected.
              – WorBlux
              Jan 7 at 1:21















            wow, everything affected? :D
            – Hessnov
            Jan 6 at 5:28




            wow, everything affected? :D
            – Hessnov
            Jan 6 at 5:28




            2




            2




            Just about every chip with out of order execution is affected.
            – WorBlux
            Jan 7 at 1:21




            Just about every chip with out of order execution is affected.
            – WorBlux
            Jan 7 at 1:21












            up vote
            3
            down vote













            Because of the specific nature of Meltdown, Power is not affected by the demonstration code, but it may be possible to write something that has a similar effect. But, because of the way that AIX on Power organizes it's memory map, only one page (IIRC, it's a while since I last looked) of the kernel (page 0, the one containing the interrupt vectors) is mapped into a user process. This prevents branch predictor cache loads from accessing kernel data structures, which is the particular attack documented for Meltdown (in other words, AIX on Power should be almost completely immune, by design, to Meltdown).



            Linux on Power does (or at least until the updates) do the mapping of kernel memory into a protected region of user process address spaces, so a Meltdown type attack is theoretically possible, but AFAICT it has not been demonstrated. I do not know about IBM i.



            The techniques described for Spectre remain less clear. IBM has only made the most broad statements publicly, which look like an effort to say something rather than nothing IMHO, but it is possible that all OSs running on Power may be affected by attacks related to the type documented. But, again, AFAICT, there is no demonstration code for Spectre on Power yet. But this may be a result of not enough Power systems being available to the researchers, and may change as time passes.



            Please note that the views expressed in this post are my own, and are not those of any other person or organization.






            share|improve this answer
























              up vote
              3
              down vote













              Because of the specific nature of Meltdown, Power is not affected by the demonstration code, but it may be possible to write something that has a similar effect. But, because of the way that AIX on Power organizes it's memory map, only one page (IIRC, it's a while since I last looked) of the kernel (page 0, the one containing the interrupt vectors) is mapped into a user process. This prevents branch predictor cache loads from accessing kernel data structures, which is the particular attack documented for Meltdown (in other words, AIX on Power should be almost completely immune, by design, to Meltdown).



              Linux on Power does (or at least until the updates) do the mapping of kernel memory into a protected region of user process address spaces, so a Meltdown type attack is theoretically possible, but AFAICT it has not been demonstrated. I do not know about IBM i.



              The techniques described for Spectre remain less clear. IBM has only made the most broad statements publicly, which look like an effort to say something rather than nothing IMHO, but it is possible that all OSs running on Power may be affected by attacks related to the type documented. But, again, AFAICT, there is no demonstration code for Spectre on Power yet. But this may be a result of not enough Power systems being available to the researchers, and may change as time passes.



              Please note that the views expressed in this post are my own, and are not those of any other person or organization.






              share|improve this answer






















                up vote
                3
                down vote










                up vote
                3
                down vote









                Because of the specific nature of Meltdown, Power is not affected by the demonstration code, but it may be possible to write something that has a similar effect. But, because of the way that AIX on Power organizes it's memory map, only one page (IIRC, it's a while since I last looked) of the kernel (page 0, the one containing the interrupt vectors) is mapped into a user process. This prevents branch predictor cache loads from accessing kernel data structures, which is the particular attack documented for Meltdown (in other words, AIX on Power should be almost completely immune, by design, to Meltdown).



                Linux on Power does (or at least until the updates) do the mapping of kernel memory into a protected region of user process address spaces, so a Meltdown type attack is theoretically possible, but AFAICT it has not been demonstrated. I do not know about IBM i.



                The techniques described for Spectre remain less clear. IBM has only made the most broad statements publicly, which look like an effort to say something rather than nothing IMHO, but it is possible that all OSs running on Power may be affected by attacks related to the type documented. But, again, AFAICT, there is no demonstration code for Spectre on Power yet. But this may be a result of not enough Power systems being available to the researchers, and may change as time passes.



                Please note that the views expressed in this post are my own, and are not those of any other person or organization.






                share|improve this answer












                Because of the specific nature of Meltdown, Power is not affected by the demonstration code, but it may be possible to write something that has a similar effect. But, because of the way that AIX on Power organizes it's memory map, only one page (IIRC, it's a while since I last looked) of the kernel (page 0, the one containing the interrupt vectors) is mapped into a user process. This prevents branch predictor cache loads from accessing kernel data structures, which is the particular attack documented for Meltdown (in other words, AIX on Power should be almost completely immune, by design, to Meltdown).



                Linux on Power does (or at least until the updates) do the mapping of kernel memory into a protected region of user process address spaces, so a Meltdown type attack is theoretically possible, but AFAICT it has not been demonstrated. I do not know about IBM i.



                The techniques described for Spectre remain less clear. IBM has only made the most broad statements publicly, which look like an effort to say something rather than nothing IMHO, but it is possible that all OSs running on Power may be affected by attacks related to the type documented. But, again, AFAICT, there is no demonstration code for Spectre on Power yet. But this may be a result of not enough Power systems being available to the researchers, and may change as time passes.



                Please note that the views expressed in this post are my own, and are not those of any other person or organization.







                share|improve this answer












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                answered Jan 23 at 8:46









                Peter Gathercole

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